Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....

lbarr088 · December 2011

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/2011_1202ag_eyes_andoveron_hazing-plan_fail_official_concerned_in_wake_of_scandal/srvc=home&position=4

I've known hazing has been around for awhile, it was around back in my

high school sports days, but sexual hazing? The sexual game in question

is apparently called "ookie cookie"... I'm sure you all get what that is about.

Yuck.

Have any of you heard cases like this? I have a feeling this is another

one of those things that is pretty common and gets swept under the rug

in most cases.

Y I Oughta · December 2011

That is disgusting. Every person that participated in that "game" should be suspended or expelled. I didn't read the whole thing to see if they were punished but I would be furious with my kid for doing something like that.

SereJane · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:70e55fb2-eb27-4fec-af9c-6989fddb096b">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]My fear of having children is all the bullying that can come with it. It was awful for me, and when I defended myself, of course I was the one that got in trouble, not all the people picking on me.
Posted by edielaura[/QUOTE]

It's always the one who reacts.

I am afraid of my child being bullied someday, but also-what if they are the bully? That scares me.

MRSBJS · December 2011

My daughter was getting picked on earlier in the school year, and it's something that breaks your heart as a parent. It is also something that can make you feel homicidal towards another kid, but that's beside the point.

I remember thinking it would almost be easier if my kid was the one doing the bullying, because that behavior I can exercise some control over to make it stop.

It's much better now, but it could have gotten worse if it had not been addressed quickly enough.

lbarr088 · December 2011

I was bullied throughout school and I ended up always being punished whenever I tried to stand up for myself. Instead of being protected in the halls, I got to leave after 3rd block instead of 4th, luckily I had plenty of credits to graduate.

Y I Oughta - As of now the kids are supposed to be expelled. They are making a big deal saying the coach dealt with this manner with prudence, etc... I think so it doesn't turn out like another JoePa where the coach doesn't do anything to protect children.

[Deleted User] · December 2011

I've always wondered about people who go through hazing, since I've never been in that situation - is what they want to do really so important that they are willing to subject themselves to such treatment? Like, do you really want to be on a sports team or frat house or whatever that you'll put yourself through that? Why not say "fvck this" and walk away? Or will the hazers beat the shiit out of you for doing so? I'm not asking to be a snot, I really don't understand the situation in that way.

lbarr088 · December 2011

Sesh - I completely understand what your saying. For my sports team the hazing was really stupid, nothing violent or really embarassing, that's why to me it wasn't a big deal. Therefore, I didn't walk away.

I've heard of hazing from a girl I knew in a sorority... that was bad. They had to be on their knees and slam down on their hands every time one of the sisters said something. Each time they had to go harder and harder, eventually one girl broke her wrist and they still made her. Also this same sorority got a bunch of frat boys drunk, had the sorority pledges strip down and had the frat boys circle their body parts that they thought were horrible. You can bet your ass I would be out of their lickity split!

I don't really know what makes people want to put up with the bad hazing... maybe it's just the fact that they will be a part of this "special" social group is enough for some..

J&K10910 · December 2011

My fear of having children is that I don't like them. Ha.

Um, yeah, Sesh...kids that walk away from hazing (if they're even allowed to walk away) do not have pleasant experiences. Even if they quit the team, etc, they still have to see those people in schools, and if you think bullying for "no reason" is crappy, bullying for a kid "wussing out" from hazing is 10x worse.

Not saying that that makes it ok, but they pretty much make it impossible for the kids to do anything but participate.

lbarr088 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:48fac7b4-3c55-44d5-a8f1-3b1854c4a8c5">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]My fear of having children is that I don't like them. Ha.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

<div>A few months ago I was completely like this! Then everyone around me started having babies... and these booger nosed monsters LIKE me and want me to play with them. In doing so I was like, "heh ya'll are pretty cute".</div><div>
</div><div>Edie- I almost cried when the person I knew told me that. </div>

[Deleted User] · December 2011

I'd rather be teased for being a wuss than eat a cookie covered in some dude's "bodily fluids." But again, I have no experience with this. In my head, I picture myself being the super bitch who just walks out and goes to the first authoritative figure who will make a big stink over it, and not sweep it under the rug. But unfortunately, it clearly doesn't work that way since it happens so often.

achiduck · December 2011

I didn't know what "ookie cookie" was so I had to urban dictionary it. That is DISGUSTING.

mbody · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:4d895559-80fb-45ae-89b5-112849242a24">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]Sesh - I've heard of hazing from a girl I knew in a sorority... that was bad. They had to be on their knees and slam down on their hands every time one of the sisters said something. Each time they had to go harder and harder, eventually one girl broke her wrist and they still made her. Also this same sorority got a bunch of frat boys drunk, had the sorority pledges strip down and had the frat boys circle their body parts that they thought were horrible.
Posted by lbarr088[/QUOTE]
Both those are beyond horrible and I'd definitely walk away from any group had they wanted me to do this. These types of hazing gives sororities and fraternaties a bad rep. I was in a sorority in college and nothing like this ever happened. We had no hazing whatsoever!

lbarr088 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:8e65a60c-39bd-4e1f-8dbb-3b4d68235433">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children.... : Yeah that's just... I have no words. Is that girl still with the group? Do you know what happened after?
Posted by edielaura[/QUOTE]

<div>She stayed. I would not have tolerated that. I know that sorority was put on probation because of the hazing. I'm not sure if the injured pledge herself reported it or if someone else got word of what was going on.</div><div>
</div><div>Achi- I didn't know either until I read two articles about it, one that mentioned bodily fluids and one that said "wet biscuit" aka "ookie cookie." That's when it hit me. I don't think I will want to eat for days.</div>

J&K10910 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:a38b75c1-df70-4a0b-876b-a1565e7e8924">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]I'd rather be teased for being a wuss than eat a cookie covered in some dude's "bodily fluids." But again, I have no experience with this. In my head, I picture myself being the super bitch who just walks out and goes to the first authoritative figure who will make a big stink over it, and not sweep it under the rug. But unfortunately, it clearly doesn't work that way since it happens so often.
Posted by Seshat411[/QUOTE]

It goes far beyond being teased.

And unfortunately, as you said, the schools are horrible at dealing with these things. It would be great if things worked the way you're thinking, because that's how it SHOULD work, but, like you said, it just doesn't.

And that is the real issue here, IMO. Kids are always going to be assholes to each other. At some point the adults need to stop it.

mehgank · December 2011

I don't really have a dog in this fight, since I never experienced hazing. The worse I ever got doled out to me was having to do pushups/run laps for being late to color guard rehearsal, that sort of thing. I never played organized sports in HS either, so I'm not even familiar with what the kids in my high school did. I can't imagine having to ingest someone else's bodily fluids just to make Varsity, though. That seems absurd to me.

My H played football in HS (co-ed private Catholic school) and also in college, so I wonder if he ever had to go through anything like that.

[Deleted User] · December 2011

I had to look it up too. Probably not the best thing to google at work, ha.

I guess thankfully, all bullying I experienced was word related, not people forcing me to do anything physically. It was at its worst in middle school and my freshman year of high school, but then I met a guy who ended up being a good friend who also happened to be someone most people were afraid of. People pretty much left me alone when they saw us hanging out.

J&K10910 · December 2011

I was a varsity freshman, and while we (there were just 2 of us my freshman year) took a lot of shiit from the upperclassmen, it was never anything like this. It was more them just being snotty and unwelcoming to us. Which isn't surprising, when seniors are in jeopardy of losing their spots to freshmen.

lbarr088 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:a2469f00-6eba-49c2-8ae8-ce6f04f0331c">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]I was a varsity freshman, and while we (there were just 2 of us my freshman year) took a lot of shiit from the upperclassmen, it was never anything like this.<strong> It was more them just being snotty and unwelcoming to us. Which isn't surprising, when seniors are in jeopardy of losing their spots to freshmen. </strong>
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

<div> A lot of this happened at my HS. </div><div>
</div><div>Also Sesh, a lot of people feel "guilted" into it because everyone else had to go through it so why would one single person be the exception? It's sad.</div>

[Deleted User] · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:3769816b-45a4-427e-ad8a-3c7da0c3d2f5">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children.... : It goes far beyond being teased. And unfortunately, as you said, the schools are horrible at dealing with these things. It would be great if things worked the way you're thinking, because that's how it SHOULD work, but, like you said, it just doesn't. And that is the real issue here, IMO. Kids are always going to be assholes to each other. At some point the adults need to stop it.
Posted by J&K10910[/QUOTE]

At my high school, at one point it wasn't even the students, but the coaches. It started off with them showing favoritism then branched into verbal abuse way beyond just a coach lecturing a player. And the other coaches never said a word. It took almost the entire team quitting and parents getting involved for something to be done.

I can't fathom the concept that winning a game is more important than treating people right. I'd be humiliated if my kid or someone in my family was involved in that, as the hazer.

Blueyed228 · December 2011

Ahhh, the old "Cover the Cookie" game.

J&K10910 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:db1e1b7a-a82d-4e24-8b5e-18e8df7e77f6">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children.... : At my high school, at one point it wasn't even the students, but the coaches. It started off with them showing favoritism then branched into verbal abuse way beyond just a coach lecturing a player. And the other coaches never said a word. It took almost the entire team quitting and parents getting involved for something to be done. I can't fathom the concept that winning a game is more important than treating people right. I'd be humiliated if my kid or someone in my family was involved in that, as the hazer.
Posted by Seshat411[/QUOTE]

That's awful. I can't even imagine.

Whenever my coach would catch wind of us being...well, bitchy girls to each other, really (We spent so much time together, it's pretty natural that there's going to be some crap), he'd pull us all into a big team meeting and make us all lay all our shiit on the table, take accountability for our own parts in it, and then we'd have pretty much the most brutal workout of the season (just a tough workout, nothing crazy). Yeah, we were all pretty much over it by the end of the workout. I took for granted that that might not be common. That sucks.

azdancer8 · December 2011

Bullying - yet another in a long list of reasons why I will be homeschooling my kids.

mehgank · December 2011

azdancer - Have you noticed if homeschooled kids wind up being bullied by their coworkers/classmates in college once they graduate? I know that there's a stigma against homeschooled kids, since they don't develop social skills due to being segregated from their peers.

SereJane · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:982d8cc9-27a4-46cf-8d45-1c3600b457db">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]azdancer - Have you noticed if homeschooled kids wind up being bullied by their coworkers/classmates in college once they graduate? I know that there's a stigma against homeschooled kids, since they don't develop social skills due to being segregated from their peers.
Posted by mehgank[/QUOTE]

I was a homeschooled child through middle school. I went to a small college prep hs (My H lovingly refers to it as the nerd school). I was fine. I don't * think* I am a total social outcast

azdancer8 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:982d8cc9-27a4-46cf-8d45-1c3600b457db">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]azdancer - Have you noticed if homeschooled kids wind up being bullied by their coworkers/classmates in college once they graduate? I know that there's a stigma against homeschooled kids, since they don't develop social skills due to being segregated from their peers.
Posted by mehgank[/QUOTE]

I think it depends on the homeschooling "community". When I lived in WA, I found many of the homeschoolers to be more awkward and less socially adept. But in AZ, there are many people I know who are or were homeschooled, and you would never know. AZ seems to have better resources for homeschoolers to interact with their peers. And a lot of it has to do with the parents themselves.

I went to public school, and saw lots of bullying pre-college, but not in college. DH was homeschooled, and says he didn't notice bullying towards homeschoolers any more than public schoolers in college.

Having been a teacher, I've noticed that bullying is starting at younger and younger ages, and there seem to be fewer resources for dealing with it. It sucks.

SereJane · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:3be4605d-071e-4ac6-a456-c203a77408bb">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children.... : I think it depends on the homeschooling "community". <strong>When I lived in WA, I found many of the homeschoolers to be more awkward and less socially adept</strong>. But in AZ, there are many people I know who are or were homeschooled, and you would never know. AZ seems to have better resources for homeschoolers to interact with their peers. And a lot of it has to do with the parents themselves. I went to public school, and saw lots of bullying pre-college, but not in college. DH was homeschooled, and says he didn't notice bullying towards homeschoolers any more than public schoolers in college. Having been a teacher, I've noticed that bullying is starting at younger and younger ages, and there seem to be fewer resources for dealing with it. It sucks.
Posted by azdancer8[/QUOTE]

You talkin' about me?!

azdancer8 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:0bd7ff3d-e9fa-4033-8e78-236264060dc5">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children.... : You talkin' about me?!
Posted by SereJane[/QUOTE]

Haha, no, not at all. I was thinking more about the kids of some of my college professors. ;) Of course, the homeschooling I saw in 2000 was pretty different from what I've seen the past couple of years. Homeschooling seems to be more acceptable today than it was in the past.

SereJane · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:bdeaa67c-f748-4147-bda2-b1facfccf871">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children.... : Haha, no, not at all. I was thinking more about the kids of some of my college professors. ;) Of course, the homeschooling I saw in 2000 was pretty different from what I've seen the past couple of years. Homeschooling seems to be more acceptable today than it was in the past.
Posted by azdancer8[/QUOTE]

My mom homeschooled me in WA. But we live in an area with a lot of resources-homeschooling parents can enroll their kids in extracurriculars and some classes too. I hated homeschooling though. Absolutely despised it. I couldn't wait to get to HS.

azdancer8 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:69843325-db33-4d6c-9f44-9fd16fbb36ea">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children.... : My mom homeschooled me in WA. But we live in an area with a lot of resources-homeschooling parents can enroll their kids in extracurriculars and some classes too. I hated homeschooling though. Absolutely despised it. I couldn't wait to get to HS.
Posted by SereJane[/QUOTE]

When I was substitute teaching in WA, one of the schools I worked at was specifically for home-schoolers to take classes that their parents couldn't (or didn't want to) teach, and for them to interact with others their age. But even those classes were tiny - like less than ten kids each.

SereJane · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:907b7ea3-deb5-4ec4-80f0-f45a3296905b">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children.... : When I was substitute teaching in WA, one of the schools I worked at was specifically for home-schoolers to take classes that their parents couldn't (or didn't want to) teach, and for them to interact with others their age. But even those classes were tiny - like less than ten kids each.
Posted by azdancer8[/QUOTE]

Probably similar to what I did (I'm curious-what area of WA were you in-I was in Vancouver). We had bigger class sizes though-about 25 kids.

azdancer8 · December 2011

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_yet-another-reason-am-fearful-ever-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:4d370dc4-1379-44c1-8e15-86a54749d79fPost:14c3df0f-1197-40ff-9d5f-a553181b1b8f">Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children.... : Probably similar to what I did (I'm curious-what area of WA were you in-I was in Vancouver). We had bigger class sizes though-about 25 kids.
Posted by SereJane[/QUOTE]

It was in Spokane. I was pretty much raised there.

Yet another reason I am fearful to ever have children....

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