Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate

Celles · March 2012

Funny you should mention that, Mara...

Oklahoma Sen. Constance Johnson, also a Democrat, proposed a "spilled semen" amendment to her state's "feel personhood" bill that would declare it an act against unborn children for men to waste sperm. Illinois state Rep. Kelly Cassidy, another Democrat, introduced an amendment to a state mandatory ultrasound bill that would require men to watch a graphic video about Viagra's side effects before being able to receive a prescription for it. A bill filed by Virginia state Sen. Janet Howell (D), would require men to obtain a rectal exam before obtaining such a prescription.

Source: this HuffPost article.

chelseamb11 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:398e3bd8-0c58-4787-848a-d9ada9edab58">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]Funny you should mention that, Mara... Oklahoma Sen. Constance Johnson, also a Democrat, proposed a "spilled semen" amendment to her state's "feel personhood" bill that would declare it an act against unborn children for men to waste sperm. Illinois state Rep. Kelly Cassidy, another Democrat, introduced an amendment to a state mandatory ultrasound bill that would require men to watch a graphic video about Viagra's side effects before being able to receive a prescription for it. A bill filed by Virginia state Sen. Janet Howell (D), would require men to obtain a rectal exam before obtaining such a prescription. Source: this HuffPost article .
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

I heard bout that. I find it really immature to try and fight conservative laws with laws that are pretending to be even more conservative when, in fact, they are just plain stupid and miss the point of said original conservative law.

dmiller9274 · March 2012

It's not a big secret how I feel about abortion, but it makes me nervous that people don't understand the problem with making laws that are centered around personal religious beliefs.

Celles · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:a50fd43d-c6ca-406a-bfb1-21dad008bb04">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : I heard bout that. I find it really immature to try and fight conservative laws with laws that are pretending to be even more conservative when, in fact, they are just plain stupid and miss the point of said original conservative law.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

I don't care if it's immature if it changing up the context makes people stop and think about how non-commonsensical some conservative laws are to begin with.

RupertPenny · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:a50fd43d-c6ca-406a-bfb1-21dad008bb04">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : I heard bout that. I find it really immature to try and fight conservative laws with laws that are pretending to be even more conservative when, in fact, they are just plain stupid and<strong> miss the point</strong> of said original conservative law.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>While I agree these counter laws might not be the most effective way to remedy the situation, I think they are quite to the point.

</div>

maratea · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:398e3bd8-0c58-4787-848a-d9ada9edab58">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]Funny you should mention that, Mara... Oklahoma Sen. Constance Johnson, also a Democrat, proposed a "spilled semen" amendment to her state's "feel personhood" bill that would declare it an act against unborn children for men to waste sperm. Illinois state Rep. Kelly Cassidy, another Democrat, introduced an amendment to a state mandatory ultrasound bill that would require men to watch a graphic video about Viagra's side effects before being able to receive a prescription for it. A bill filed by Virginia state Sen. Janet Howell (D), would require men to obtain a rectal exam before obtaining such a prescription. Source: this HuffPost article .
Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

Ha! This is awesomely ridiculous and I'm guessing most people agree with me. It's sad that people don't think the infringement on women's bodies are just as ridiculous.

chelseamb11 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:9231db54-a736-4e24-8f63-b1c57b82a755">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : While I agree these counter laws might not be the most effective way to remedy the situation, <strong>I think they are quite to the point. </strong>
Posted by RupertPenny[/QUOTE]

Not really. Let's just take the law/bill that would hypothetically outlaw abortion. I know religion and pro-life often go hand in hand, but the premise of pro-life isn't "worship this God or believe this about Jesus". It's "that fetus is a human life that deserves to live". Saying a human has a right to live isn't religious. It's something we all believe on a day to day basis. The only difference that it boils down to is when people believe that the life actually begins.

Anysunrise · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:9b6a9d5a-3a0a-48fb-91fa-b0614fde3676">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : Not really. Let's just take the law/bill that would hypothetically outlaw abortion. I know religion and pro-life often go hand in hand, but the premise of pro-life isn't "worship this God or believe this about Jesus". It's "that fetus is a human life that deserves to live". Saying a human has a right to live isn't religious. It's something we all believe on a day to day basis. <strong>The only difference that it boils down to is when people believe that the life actually begins.</strong>
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and the whole idea of it beginning at conception is intrinsically tied to religious belief.

DNAtime · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:9b6a9d5a-3a0a-48fb-91fa-b0614fde3676">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : Not really. Let's just take the law/bill that would hypothetically outlaw abortion. I know religion and pro-life often go hand in hand, but the premise of pro-life isn't "worship this God or believe this about Jesus". It's "that fetus is a human life that deserves to live". Saying a human has a right to live isn't religious. It's something we all believe on a day to day basis. The only difference that it boils down to is when people believe that the life actually begins.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

.... and then want to force that belief onto others who don't share it by making laws. And that is where the problem really lies.

Anysunrise · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:183f25a5-1583-435f-8d0e-b7146e14fbd4">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : .... and then want to force that belief onto others who don't share it by making laws. And that is where the problem really lies.
Posted by DNAtime[/QUOTE]

This too.

RupertPenny · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:9b6a9d5a-3a0a-48fb-91fa-b0614fde3676">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : Not really. Let's just take the law/bill that would hypothetically outlaw abortion. I know religion and pro-life often go hand in hand, but the premise of pro-life isn't "worship this God or believe this about Jesus". It's "that fetus is a human life that deserves to live". Saying a human has a right to live isn't religious. It's something we all believe on a day to day basis. The only difference that it boils down to is when people believe that the life actually begins.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>This is the problem with abortion debates. People who are pro-choice are not that way because they are cool with killing little babies. It's about believing the rights of the mother, who legally is a person and therefore has certain inalienable rights, trump any "rights" that a fetus, who is not legally a person, may have. It isn't about whether or not a fetus is alive, it's about personhood. </div><div>
</div><div>These pro-life laws try to restrict women's rights as people, specifically their rights related to reproductive health. The countering laws do the same for men in such a way as to highlight how absurd the original laws are anyway.

</div>

maratea · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:a3539256-4099-497f-8010-5ecaaaff013a">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : This is the problem with abortion debates. People who are pro-choice are not that way because they are cool with killing little babies. It's about believing the rights of the mother, who legally is a person and therefore has certain inalienable rights, trump any "rights" that a fetus, who is not legally a person, may have. It isn't about whether or not a fetus is alive, it's about personhood. These pro-life laws try to restrict women's rights as people, specifically their rights related to reproductive health. The countering laws do the same for men in such a way as to highlight how absurd the original laws are anyway.
Posted by RupertPenny[/QUOTE]

You haz smarts. Please stay.

I'm tired of people insinuating that because I'm pro-choice that I'm pro-killing babies. NO. I'm pro-giving women the choice to do what they want with their own body.

NicoleSahara · March 2012

Rupert, for you personally, when does a fetus become a human and thus gain rights? Is it a certain number of weeks or just once it's outside the womb or something else? This isn't an attack on you and other pro-choicers can say what they think, just curious to see people's views on that and why they think that.

baystateapple · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:3f627d42-28a7-47c7-b6b1-4b590f53e41b">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : Well yeah.. I'm ot saying they're never right because sometimes they are, but especially based on stuff that they find out in the womb, I feel like there's never any guarantees a baby will die. There could always potentially find a solution to whatever is going on.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

Chels, anencephaly is 100% fatal. Maybe not before birth, maybe not in the seconds after birth. Some anencephalic babies live months - I think one lived to be two, through medical intervention. But they are never cognitive, they can't sense anything, they must be hooked up to machines to survive. There is no medical procedure that can fix anencephaly.

Yes, you can argue that the mother should carry the baby to term and allow it to naturally die, if that's how you feel. But there IS a guarantee that that child is going to die.

And I don't like the idea of lawmakers telling a parent who has found out that their child has a disease that is 100% fatal, usually within seconds of birth, that they have no choice but to continue the pregnancy to term, knowing that that baby is going to die, because there's no physical threat to the mother. I think that decision is up to the parents and the doctor.

chelseamb11 · March 2012

I can't quote you Rupert for some reason (way to go TK IT), so I"ll C&P:
"These pro-life laws try to restrict women's rights as people, specifically their rights related to reproductive health. The countering laws do the same for men in such a way as to highlight how absurd the original laws are anyway. "

That's the thing. Nobody wants or is trying to restrict the rights of anyone. That's nevre been the goal of pro-life. Quite the contrary actually. Pro-life tries to give MORE rights to what pro-life believes is a human as well. Other than cases of rape, nobody is FORCED to have sex, so a large percentage of aborted babies come from the woman making a choice about her own body and not weighing the possible consequences (a baby in that case).

AllAboutTheBenjamin · March 2012

I hate the personhood/human argument because you can argue it seven ways to Sunday and no one ever changes their mind.

All I know is, if my doctor tells me that my fetus will not be born alive, I shouldn't be forced to carry it to term and watch it die just because lawmakers take it upon themselves to purportedly know better than medical doctors the condition of my fetus and my pregnancy.

ETA - If I want to take the chance on the fetus and complete the pregnancy, that should be my choice. It should not be decided for me.

RupertPenny · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:b28c3c9f-8b0a-43cd-a19d-9b6a0ea3759e">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : You haz smarts. Please stay. I'm tired of people insinuating that because I'm pro-choice that I'm pro-killing babies. NO. I'm pro-giving women the choice to do what they want with their own body.
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>This is Annakb8, I just have been wanting a new SN for a while so I finally started using one. </div><div>
</div><div>Nicole, I don't know exactly when someone becomes a person, but I do know that it is not while they are living inside another person.

</div>

ErinG93 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:b28c3c9f-8b0a-43cd-a19d-9b6a0ea3759e">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : You haz smarts. Please stay. I'm tired of people insinuating that because I'm pro-choice that I'm pro-killing babies. NO. I'm pro-giving women the choice to do what they want with their own body.
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Mara, Rupert is Anna. Her username was Annabk8 or something along those lines. ;)

</div>

NicoleSahara · March 2012

And bay, since no one seems to have been able to answer my question, I looked it up myself. And you can diagnose anencephaly reliably at 11 to 14 weeks, so this bill isn't forcing you to carry that baby to term.

maratea · March 2012

Ha, I feel dumb and a little slow.

AllAboutTheBenjamin · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:39fd78d4-76e7-498b-8dad-e8ddff8b5ca1">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]I can't quote you Rupert for some reason (way to go TK IT), so I"ll C&P: "These pro-life laws try to restrict women's rights as people, specifically their rights related to reproductive health. The countering laws do the same for men in such a way as to highlight how absurd the original laws are anyway. " That's the thing. Nobody wants or is trying to restrict the rights of anyone. That's nevre been the goal of pro-life. Quite the contrary actually. Pro-life tries to give MORE rights to what pro-life believes is a human as well. <strong> Other than cases of rape, nobody is FORCED to have sex, so a large percentage of aborted babies come from the woman making a choice about her own body and not weighing the possible consequences (a baby in that case).</strong>
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

See, I'm just not okay with legislating "good choices."

cheeseandrice · March 2012

I can't quote anyone (fucking TK), but I can tell you that stories exist (on my TB month board, actually) where they doctor's can tell you, with certaintity that the fetus is 'not compatable with life.' What's more humane? Allowing the fetus to die a slow painful death in utero? or... terminating quickly? (And often, these aren't caught until the big 20 week u/s.)

If you really want me to go dig up a few stories on blogs I can. But I just highly suspect anyone that says "NEVER WOULD I EVER".

Anysunrise · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:39fd78d4-76e7-498b-8dad-e8ddff8b5ca1">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]I can't quote you Rupert for some reason (way to go TK IT), so I"ll C&P: "These pro-life laws try to restrict women's rights as people, specifically their rights related to reproductive health. The countering laws do the same for men in such a way as to highlight how absurd the original laws are anyway. " That's the thing. Nobody wants or is trying to restrict the rights of anyone. That's nevre been the goal of pro-life. Quite the contrary actually. Pro-life tries to give MORE rights to what pro-life believes is a human as well. Other than cases of rape, nobody is FORCED to have sex, <strong>so a large percentage of aborted babies come from the woman making a choice about her own body and not weighing the possible consequences (a baby in that case).</strong>
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

Sigh. I think it's already been proven that people aren't just going to stop having sex because they don't want babies. That's why they invented condoms and the pill. But clearly those are just immoral after all.

AllAboutTheBenjamin · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:7f489655-f375-407f-a88d-89b4b55e5cf6">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]And bay, since no one seems to have been able to answer my question, I looked it up myself. And you can diagnose anencephaly reliably at 11 to 14 weeks, so this bill isn't forcing you to carry that baby to term.
Posted by NicoleSahara[/QUOTE]

Unless it's not diagnosed until after 20 weeks.

RupertPenny · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:39fd78d4-76e7-498b-8dad-e8ddff8b5ca1">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]I can't quote you Rupert for some reason (way to go TK IT), so I"ll C&P: "These pro-life laws try to restrict women's rights as people, specifically their rights related to reproductive health. The countering laws do the same for men in such a way as to highlight how absurd the original laws are anyway. " That's the thing. Nobody wants or is trying to restrict the rights of anyone. That's nevre been the goal of pro-life. Quite the contrary actually. Pro-life tries to give MORE rights to what pro-life believes is a human as well. Other than cases of rape, nobody is FORCED to have sex, so a large percentage of aborted babies come from the woman making a choice about her own body and not weighing the possible consequences (a baby in that case).
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

<div>But unborn babies are not people, and therefore do not have rights. That's the point. And you can't give them rights without taking away the rights of the mother. </div><div>
</div><div>Anyway, I agree with AATB. I know this argument rarely changes people's minds. I need to just stay out of these abortion threads. </div>

baystateapple · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:7f489655-f375-407f-a88d-89b4b55e5cf6">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>And bay, since no one seems to have been able to answer my question, I looked it up myself. </strong>And you can diagnose anencephaly reliably at 11 to 14 weeks, so this bill isn't forcing you to carry that baby to term.
Posted by NicoleSahara[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, I stepped away from the computer for awhile and I commented on Chels' statement first. I didn't mean to ignore your question. Honestly, I didn't know how early you can check for it.

maratea · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:39fd78d4-76e7-498b-8dad-e8ddff8b5ca1">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]I can't quote you Rupert for some reason (way to go TK IT), so I"ll C&P: "These pro-life laws try to restrict women's rights as people, specifically their rights related to reproductive health. The countering laws do the same for men in such a way as to highlight how absurd the original laws are anyway. " That's the thing. Nobody wants or is trying to restrict the rights of anyone. That's nevre been the goal of pro-life. Quite the contrary actually. Pro-life tries to give MORE rights to what pro-life believes is a human as well. Other than cases of rape, nobody is FORCED to have sex, so a large percentage of aborted babies come from the woman making a choice about her own body and not weighing the possible consequences (a baby in that case).
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

OMG. This is the dumbest thing I've ever read on here. Seriously. When you make abortion illegal, who are you taking rights away from? The woman (and the man) who wants to have an abortion. When you outlaw contraception, who are you taking rights away from? The woman and man who don't want children or who want to engage in safe sexual behavior. All of this is taking away rights from the people who need them.

cheeseandrice · March 2012

Nicole- anencephaly can be diagnosed earlier, but only with additional testing. It's not able to be diagnosed with the routine testing. Many doctors (and insurance providers) only allow for one u/s.. at 20 weeks.

We opted in to the first trimester screening (last week), because of those stories. But it's about $950 out of pocket, and most doctors dont' really encourage it unless you have a high risk for some reason. Because my insurance covered it, and I had heard those stories on my TB month board, I opted in. But most people in my situation wouldn't opt for that additional testing, and therefore wouldn't get the diagnosis until 20+ weeks.

RupertPenny · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:bbf226e8-387b-4a23-83d1-817fe0dd4434">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : OMG. This is the dumbest thing I've ever read on here. Seriously. When you make abortion illegal, who are you taking rights away from? The woman (and the man) who wants to have an abortion. When you outlaw contraception, who are you taking rights away from? The woman and man who don't want children or who want to engage in safe sexual behavior.<strong> All of this is taking away rights from the people who need them.</strong>
Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Exaclty. People who have actually, you know, been born.

</div>

NicoleSahara · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:aaeffa9b-4ff2-4570-a375-97a50f81d394">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : I'm sorry, I stepped away from the computer for awhile and I commented on Chels' statement first. I didn't mean to ignore your question. Honestly, I didn't know how early you can check for it.
Posted by baystateapple[/QUOTE]

I didn't ask you specifically bay, it was just general, and wasn't trying to call you out there, I was just talking to you because you had brought up anencephaly again and in my initial question I asked when we could test for things like what you had used as an example. So no worries :)

Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate

Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate

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