Pope Francis

agapecarrie · March 2013

Nope. The catechism states it is disordered. The right order is male/ female attraction. To have same sex attraction is the disorders of attraction

monkeysip · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:5ec19160-d2b2-4220-8ed4-b5b2de042edc">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pope Francis : It's nice that the church calls for compassion and respect, but to refer to homosexuality as a "condition" makes it sounds like a disease. Rather, it's a minority chararacteristic/inclination, like being left-handed, and is no more of a disease than such.
Posted by CrazyCatLady3[/QUOTE]

The Church views homosexual inclination the same as she does any other inclination towards sin.

Some people have inclinations towards alcoholism, or violence, or sexual addiction. These are more serious behavioral, often biological conditions. Every person has some kind of inclination towards sin even if it isn't manifested in a serious disorder. This is all the result of the Fall of humanity. We developed corrupt human natures, and an inclination towards disordered desires.

The whole purpose of Christ's sacrifice was to cleanse us of this corruption, through his grace. We may still continue to struggle, but by Christ's power we are not slaves to sin anymore. We now have the ability to fight against these inclinations and offer our struggles up to God.

In this way, people who act on their homosexual inclinations are no "worse" so to speak than any other sinner, but that doesn't mean we can justify their actions any more than we can justify the action of the person compelled to steal, hit, or drink excessive alcohol.

Resa77 · March 2013

In Response to Re:Pope Francis:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pope Francis:In Response to Re: Pope Francis : Conveniently, tomorrow is a solemnity on St. Joseph's Day... so it's definitely celebration time!!! nbsp;I like Kristan's idea of getting some Argentinian wine :Posted by newlyseliskiSt. Joseph's solemnity is the 19th.... Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

yeah, I totally just realized "wait...today isnt the 18th...".

lalaith50 · March 2013

I love how the main-stream media (and many others...) are actually surprised when the Pope whom is elected is... CATHOLIC!

peppy22vball · March 2013

First of all, I just got home from work and couldn't wait to see what you all were saying about the new Pope.
It's so exciting that they have decided on a new Pope. Even better that he took the name Francis! I went to University of St. Francis for my undergrad...

Monkeysip- The message to St. Francis "Rebuild my Church" was such a great add on about the chosen name. We need change and for the good. The Church has been struggling against all these scandals over the years and people need to see more than the scandals.

I'm excited to see where the future of the church goes. I felt our last Pope was unchanging the great things John Paul II did.

monkeysip · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:7095d60d-f14a-4ce2-9c5d-f5498b1b6991">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]First of all, I just got home from work and couldn't wait to see what you all were saying about the new Pope. It's so exciting that they have decided on a new Pope. Even better that he took the name Francis! I went to University of St. Francis for my undergrad... Monkeysip- The message to St. Francis "Rebuild my Church" was such a great add on about the chosen name. We need change and for the good. The Church has been struggling against all these scandals over the years and people need to see more than the scandals. I'm excited to see where the future of the church goes. <strong>I felt our last Pope was unchanging the great things John Paul II did. </strong>
Posted by peppy22vball[/QUOTE]

I feel like this is a somewhat unfair generalization. When you really analyze what they wrote and said, Pope JPII and Benedict XVI were very similar. Both were very strong on moral issues like abortion, gay marriage, human sexuality, etc., but both tried to push for social justice issues. I think Benedict had a really difficult relationship with the media though. They ignored so many good things Benedict said and did, and really focused just on church scandals and some of his more conservative statements. I'm hoping the media will be more open-minded to the new pope and will report on his statements/actions more fairly. Hopefully Pope Francis can have a more likeable image for the Church, like JPII had.

Riss91 · March 2013

What did Pope Benedict "unchange"?

newlyseliski · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:756d93e3-5bba-4d44-8a40-4c073a7f3a17">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]I love how the main-stream media (and many others...) are actually surprised when the Pope whom is elected is... CATHOLIC!
Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]
*GASP* no way... <div>
</div><div>PM, lalaith... On that note... have to send you funniest article ever!</div>

newlyseliski · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:c0b89ca2-fae0-49ac-ab64-c7cb6825e944">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pope Francis : St. Joseph's solemnity is the 19th....
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]<div>
Shoot... I mentally skipped a week ahead! Thanks :)</div>

GoodLuckBear14 · March 2013

Here is where Pope Francis will be more like John Paul II: Their backgrounds give/gave them a position of authority from which to speak.

I don't know how old everyone else on this board is but I vivdly remember JP II speaking against communism in the 1980s. His background and all of his work in Poland allowed him to speak with an authority to which people paid attention. All people, not just Catholics because this was experience talking. World leaders credited him with being a driving force behind the fall of communism.

Pope Fracis' background gives him a platform to speak not only about poverty but war, torture, persecution. He has already captured the world's attention with his wearing of a wooden cross, not elevating himself on the balcony yesterday, and asking the crowds to bless him. I think like JP II, Francis has has a willing Catholic and non-Catholic audience.

professorscience · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:30aad787-8221-47bf-b139-049c5e0dd9ca">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]Here is where Pope Francis will be more like John Paul II: Their backgrounds give/gave them a position of authority from which to speak. I don't know how old everyone else on this board is but I vivdly remember JP II speaking against communism in the 1980s. His background and all of his work in Poland allowed him to speak with an authority to which people paid attention. All people, not just Catholics because this was experience talking. World leaders credited him with being a driving force behind the fall of communism. Pope Fracis' background gives him a platform to speak not only about poverty but war, torture, persecution. He has already captured the world's attention with his wearing of a wooden cross, not elevating himself on the balcony yesterday, and asking the crowds to bless him. <strong> I think like JP II, Francis has has a willing Catholic and non-Catholic audience.</strong>
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I agree with you on this. Benedict XVI received some pretty unfair criticism (at least looking at my FB feed from when he resigned) in his time as pope.

</div>

Resa77 · March 2013

I don't know what it was about Benedict that made some people hate on him, but boy, did people love to make stuff up about him! God bless Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI!

I'm loving Pope Francis so far! Last night I looked at pictures from his balcony intro/blessing thing (since I didn't get to watch it on the news), and I just love that he gave such a humble, casual wave, rather than the typical, more regal papal gestures. I love that he seemed a tiny bit awkward. I love everything I'm reading about him so far..he just seems so adorable and nice.

GoodLuckBear14 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:9783eb78-3f7b-43c3-a10c-a7d8ceab6864">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't know what it was about Benedict that made some people hate on him,Posted by Resa77[/QUOTE]

To me this is like asking why do so many people hate George W. Bush or Barak Obama or really any polarizing figure. If you are a supporter, you don't understand it and think people with opposing opinions are idiots or out of their minds or don't have all the facts. (universal "you", not you personally)

People had different reasons. For me, it was concentrating on petty things like changes to the wording of the liturgy, declaring that there were no animals present at the birth of Jesus (who really cares??), etc. instead of calling attention to suffering and what affects lives in the here and now. He also gave the impression that the Church under him was an out of touch, hostile, judgmental place where you had to follow the rules to the letter or you were not welcome and this was burnished by him being a theologian and Vatican insider with no connection to the outside world. Some parishes adopted this attitude and as a result drove people away and caused many of those who already left the church to throw up their hands and deepen their resolve that they were right in leaving. Francis, just by the nature of who he is, has a chance of turning this around.

chelseamb11 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:8033bc0d-d75a-425c-8f9d-f4fa739f06af">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pope Francis : To me this is like asking why do so many people hate George W. Bush or Barak Obama or really any polarizing figure. If you are a supporter, you don't understand it and think people with opposing opinions are idiots or out of their minds or don't have all the facts. (universal "you", not you personally) People had different reasons. For me, it was concentrating on petty things like changes to the wording of the liturgy, declaring that there were no animals present at the birth of Jesus (who really cares??), etc. instead of calling attention to suffering and what affects lives in the here and now. He also gave the impression that the Church under him was an out of touch, hostile, judgmental place where you had to follow the rules to the letter or you were not welcome and this was burnished by him being a theologian and Vatican insider with no connection to the outside world. Some parishes adopted this attitude and as a result drove people away and caused many of those who already left the church to throw up their hands and deepen their resolve that they were right in leaving. Francis, just by the nature of who he is, has a chance of turning this around.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]

But see, when you look at only the negatives of a person you aren't going to like them. Heck if you look at only the negatives of Mother Theresa you could plausibly dislike her too. It's all about balance of good vs bad. If a person does more bad than good, I'm generally not going to like them. If they do more good, then I'll like them. The thing about any pope or anything Catholic, all you hear is the bad because the media (overall) is quite liberal, so it's easy to dislike them. I was actually very anti-Catholic because of the media for about a decade. Then I actually too kthe time to truly get to know the religion and the Church and I realized that they do so much good in the world that goes unnoticed.

Pope Benedict was the first pope to foster relations with other religions, specifically Islam. He also traveled to the US, spoke with the United Nations and spoke out about sexual abuse.

GoodLuckBear14 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:b6965d7c-f2d5-40c0-b4af-1ff991ac9bbd">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pope Francis : But see, when you look at only the negatives of a person you aren't going to like them. Heck if you look at only the negatives of Mother Theresa you could plausibly dislike her too. It's all about balance of good vs bad. If a person does more bad than good, I'm generally not going to like them. If they do more good, then I'll like them. The thing about any pope or anything Catholic, all you hear is the bad because the media (overall) is quite liberal, so it's easy to dislike them. I was actually very anti-Catholic because of the media for about a decade. Then I actually too kthe time to truly get to know the religion and the Church and I realized that they do so much good in the world that goes unnoticed. Pope Benedict was the first pope to foster relations with other religions, specifically Islam. He also traveled to the US, spoke with the United Nations and spoke out about sexual abuse.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

If the message isn't getting out, whose fault is that? This is like Ann Romney complaining that (after six years of campaigning) people didn't know the real Mitt. People aren't going to go looking themselves to see if there is anything to change the general impression that the guy is giving off.

And as for the media, as a former journalist, I ask you to really take a look at the media in general because too many people scream "liberal" or "conservative" if they are not reinforcing what they believe and complain that this is the problem. There is only one truly liberal network (MSNBC) and one truly conservative one (FOX), neither of which are ever on at my house. There are right wing newspapers and left wing newspapers. Same with magazines and the internet. CBS, ABC and NBC are all owned by conservative corporations. The most fair and balanced news outlet is PBS and NPR constantly vilified on the right. To say it is overwhelmingly liberal is just inaccurate.

Riss91 · March 2013

I agree with Chelsea - you can choose to focus on the good or you can choose to focus on the bad...a few points...

- JPII changed the liturgy MUCH more than Benedict did....
- Caring about correcting liturgy isn't petty (Though I could understand why some felt the changes to the new mass were "nitpicking"). The problem was that they were not properly translated under JPII. Nothing would need to be corrected if the original translation wasn't such a mess.
- Benedict also did a ton of work towards reuniting the SSPX back to the Church, though it isn't complete.
- Not sure what about his work gave the impression that the Church was a hostile place
- I didn't even notice anything about whether animals were present at Jesus' birth - so I'm not sure how this was a "focus" of Benedict
- The Church needs strong theologians, it's one of our weaker areas.

Every pope has a tough job. I am forever grateful to Benedict for the work he did, as it brought me back into the Church. But I'm also not going to say JPII was a bad pope because some of his work was the reason I left the Church. I think he did amazing things in many ways, and not so amazing things in other ways. I'm going to stay positive about Pope Francis. I agree with you that he has a good focus and brings a different light. That is the great thing about the papacy - each pope has a chance to impact the Church in a different way.

monkeysip · March 2013

Maybe not overly "liberal", but the media has always had an anti-established religion bias.

Look at CNN's coverage of the papal election. Who did they interview? Did they go to orthodox nuns, priests, or laity? No, they had constant interviews with all the people protesting for "reform" in the Catholic Church. Pro-women priest groups, pro-gay marriage groups, etc. It just gives a very false impression.

Or what about when Pope Benedict made his statement against using condoms in Africa? The media crucified him for that, and completely ignored it when the director of the AIDs research at Harvard University came out and said, "actually, the Pope is mostly right, my 20 years of research has shown evidence for this". No... he was silenced, and his contract wasn't renewed at Harvard.

I'm not saying Benedict (or other Church officials) was blameless for his appearance to the media. Certainly he is an older, more conservative and traditional man who probably just didn't really understand how he was always coming across.

But the point is he was also a very kind and gentle speaker. When you listen to his speeches or *gasp* read his writings, it's a very different image than the media portrayed.

The problem is, he still was a hardliner on all the issues that non-Catholics love to hate about the Church. But that's exactly what the Church needs... a person who is compassionate and caring, but who isn't going to compromise under all the wordly pressures to change and distort the truth and morality.

I think people also nit-picked back at him. Changing the liturgy? Words have powerful meanings, and changing even a few words in the liturgy can have a huge impact on the reverence of the mass that has been waning lately. Dispelling myths about the birth of Jesus? He specifically said he wasn't trying to change how people celebrate. You don't have to throw out the little ceramic sheep from your nativity scene. But discovering the authentic historical truth of the Scriptures is not only important to the Church but I would think, very appreciated by the scholarly community.

I really think that people's opinions about the Pope say a lot more about them then it does the Pope himself.

chelseamb11 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:30bd43d1-a8be-4968-8822-835ee26ea7e2">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pope Francis : If the message isn't getting out, whose fault is that? ...............To say it is overwhelmingly liberal is just inaccurate.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]

Firstly, like others said above me, other organizations that do good things are on the news all the time about the good they do. Why should the Catholic Church (the LARGEST charitable organization in this country) have to take out a commercial just to make people see what it does?

And it is overwhelmingly liberal. Today was the first time in 5 yeras that I've read a story about the church that touches on the BILLIONS of dollars it gives in charitable aid every year. And like others said, I saw almost no interviews of actual clergy, Catholics or other church ministers during the past few weeks. It was all about people whinig that the Church won't change its stance on key social issues.

Even with the whole gun control debate (no I am not starting a debate, just making a point). The news was alllll over the negative impact of guns and STILL refuses to clarify the difference between an assault rifle (already illegal) and an assault style weapon (basically only looks like an assault rifle but has no different functionality than the 4 hunting rifles I have in my gun cabinet). There was a story in Oregon (?I think) about an armed security guard taking out a gunman at a school before anyone was able to get shot. The news didn't even TOUCH it because it actually promotes a security guard having a gun in school. Another story about a cop who was off duty at a mall and shot a guy who had a gun out before he could shoot anyone too.

The media rarely reportrs on anything that actually gives decent facts to conservative views.

GoodLuckBear14 · March 2013

We are never going to agree on this. All I can tell you is that he made me feel like this wasn't my church anymore. That this wasn't the church that I had grown up in. That the focus was too much on telling people what to believe (or else) and not nearly enough on helping others. That no longer welcome would be someone like old my parish priest who would walk around downtown Cincinnati after 7:00 mass of Saturday nights and bring homeless people back to the undercroft of the church (sometimes carrying them) to sleep on cots and have a hot breakfast in the morning would no longer welcomed because he also taught us that while faith was important, living your faith was more important and if you don't agree with everything the Church teaches, do you best, make your own decisions and live a life God would be proud of.

chelseamb11 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:f4ca065f-db7d-47f1-9fc5-7a5a9cad3d5a">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]We are never going to agree on this. All I can tell you is that he made me feel like this wasn't my church anymore. That this wasn't the church that I had grown up in. That the focus was too much on telling people what to believe (or else) and not nearly enough on helping others. That no longer welcome would be someone like old my parish priest who would walk around downtown Cincinnati after 7:00 mass of Saturday nights and bring homeless people back to the undercroft of the church (sometimes carrying them) to sleep on cots and have a hot breakfast in the morning would no longer welcomed because he also taught us that while faith was important, living your faith was more important and if you don't agree with everything the Church teaches, do you best, make your own decisions and live a life God would be proud of.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]

Genunine question here... is it possible that it was moreso the priest than Pope Benedict? I only ask this because when H and I got married (before we moved here) we were looking for a church to go to together once we lived together. After a ton of church shopping, we fell in LOVE with one church, especially because the priest was just so..idk the word. But he was wonderful! So full of love and compassion, kind of like the good priest you mentioned. Not all churches/priests are terrible (while I will agree, some priests do need to work on their empathy skills lol)

I'm relaly sorry you've had a negative experience in the past :( No priest or church should ever make anyone feel unwelcome.

monkeysip · March 2013

I just think you could say the same thing about Jesus.

Yes, he lived his life for the poor, the sick, the weak. He did so many humble and charitable things for everyone around him and sacrificed his life on the cross to save us. A lot of people focus only on that.... how merciful and kind he was.

At the same time, Jesus got angry at those who defiled his temple, he healed people only AFTER he forgave their sins and told them to sin no more. He preached about Hell and the consequences of not living a righteous life. He called the road to salvation the narrow road... only those who truly devoted their lives to God could make it. He told us to cut off our hand or cut out our eye if it caused us to sin. He told us that merely looking on another woman with lust was adultery. He told us that divorce was immoral, and those who remarried committed adultery.

Jesus was both at the same time... and not at all a contradiction. Merciful but righteous. Forgiving but just. Kind but firm. God is all of these things, and that's what the Catholic Church is about.

GoodLuckBear14 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:0c5a190f-e80c-4a5b-b9c1-9998d8f74668">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pope Francis : Genunine question here... is it possible that it was moreso the priest than Pope Benedict? I only ask this because when H and I got married (before we moved here) we were looking for a church to go to together once we lived together. After a ton of church shopping, we fell in LOVE with one church, especially because the priest was just so..idk the word. But he was wonderful! So full of love and compassion, kind of like the good priest you mentioned. Not all churches/priests are terrible (while I will agree, some priests do need to work on their empathy skills lol) I'm relaly sorry you've had a negative experience in the past :( No priest or church should ever make anyone feel unwelcome.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

No. If that were the case then I would have had a problem with JP II and pretty much any clergy member who isn't like that. And after living in three cities, I don't need to be told that not all parishes are the same. Nor did I have a "negative experience" in the past; this has been ongoing since Benedict was made Pope. From what I can tell, this board loved Benedict. I didn't. I cried when he stepped out on that balcony years ago. You all clearly did not see and feel what I and so many others did. Like I said, we will never agree on this.

ETA: "while faith was important, living your faith was more important and if you don't agree with everything the Church teaches, do you best, make your own decisions and live a life God would be proud of" was a common teaching from priests and nuns throught my life. The priest I mentioned is just the one I saw living his faith to the fullest.

Calypso1977 · March 2013

what i find interesting is that under Benedict, the regular Mass population may have gone down (i dont know if it did, just going on what GLB said abotu people being driven away) but the attendance at Latin Masses was and is booming. Latin Masses at our local Church and others are PACKED and not only are they packed, they are packed with YOUNG PEOPLE. When i go to the other area Churches and my mom's church, they are half full perhaps, and few young people with young children.

i think Benedict brought many back to the faith, many who left when things changed with Vatican II. Vatican II drove a ton of people away.

GoodLuckBear14 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:5a0f6996-4506-44a8-acc4-079f68dd9f6f">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]what i find interesting is that under Benedict, the regular Mass population may have gone down (i dont know if it did, just going on what GLB said abotu people being driven away) but the attendance at Latin Masses was and is booming. Latin Masses at our local Church and others are PACKED and not only are they packed, they are packed with YOUNG PEOPLE. When i go to the other area Churches and my mom's church, they are half full perhaps, and few young people with young children. i think Benedict brought many back to the faith, many who left when things changed with Vatican II. Vatican II drove a ton of people away.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

I don't think he brought anyone back. I have an uncle and aunt who left their parish and began attending Latin mass. Former friends attend Latin mass. They never left the church. They also think that Vatican II wove the handbasket that we are all going to hell in. I think Latin masses are full for this reason. Fr. Andrew Greeley is a sociologist and has written books on this. According to his research, the people who left did so because the church was not progressive enough and was getting too political telling people how to vote. These are not the people who would be returning under Benedict and certainly would not be going to Latin mass.

Calypso1977 · March 2013

im talking about people who left the Church to worship in tradition, through places like the SSPX or other sedevacantist movements.

those are the people who left during Vatican II and many of whom returned under a Pope that welcomed Bishops supporting Mass being said in Latin throughout their archdiocese.

monkeysip · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:b621d572-b04a-42d7-ae36-57bde19a2472">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pope Francis : I don't think he brought anyone back. I have an uncle and aunt who left their parish and began attending Latin mass. Former friends attend Latin mass. They never left the church. They also think that Vatican II wove the handbasket that we are all going to hell in. I think Latin masses are full for this reason. Fr. Andrew Greeley is a sociologist and has written books on this. According to his research, the people who left did so because the church was not progressive enough and was getting too political telling people how to vote. These are not the people who would be returning under Benedict and certainly would not be going to Latin mass.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]

I think you're mischaracterizing a lot of more traditional Catholics. I love more traditional liturgy, but I don't think Vatican II did anything wrong. I think some of the negative changes among Catholics, and some of the abuses were a result of the time period, not because Vatican II did anything wrong.

That's the problem on both the "liberal" and "conservative" side. They think Vatican II changed things, when it didn't. It merely expressed the same 2000 year old truth in the Church in a different way.

I converted to Catholicism under Benedict. He had a lot to do with drawing me to the faith because I was looking for truth, and he stood firmly by it. He also helped foster a more reverent spirit towards the liturgy again (no, I don't think mass needs to be in latin to be reverent, but it needs to be God-centered, not people-centered), which attracted me to Catholicism in the first place because I was so disillusioned with the modernist protestant churches.

Everyone's perspective is different, and certainly you're right in that Benedict and the Church have pushed some people away. But there's also been a lot of people coming to the Church or coming back to the Church. I love attending the Easter Vigil to see all the new confirmations ever year.

GoodLuckBear14 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:92551b38-3476-41f8-98d7-c770f80bc013">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pope Francis : <strong>I think you're mischaracterizing a lot of more traditional Catholics.</strong> I love more traditional liturgy, but I don't think Vatican II did anything wrong. I think some of the negative changes among Catholics, and some of the abuses were a result of the time period, not because Vatican II did anything wrong. That's the problem on both the "liberal" and "conservative" side. They think Vatican II changed things, when it didn't. It merely expressed the same 2000 year old truth in the Church in a different way. I converted to Catholicism under Benedict. He had a lot to do with drawing me to the faith because I was looking for truth, and he stood firmly by it. He also helped foster a more reverent spirit towards the liturgy again (no, I don't think mass needs to be in latin to be reverent, but it needs to be God-centered, not people-centered), which attracted me to Catholicism in the first place because I was so disillusioned with the modernist protestant churches. Everyone's perspective is different, and certainly you're right in that Benedict and the Church have pushed some people away. But there's also been a lot of people coming to the Church or coming back to the Church. I love attending the Easter Vigil to see all the new confirmations ever year.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

I'm not mischaracterizing anyone. I stated what my realtives and friends have said.

I will tell you that in recent years I have felt more at home in my DH's Greek Orthodox Church which is even just as conservative and traditional as the Catholic church and is twice as long since mass is said in Greek and English. It isn't Catholic theology that pushes me away (I don't agree with all of it but that is another story), it is everything else I have already said. What I especially love about DH's parish is that when I met the priest, he introduced me to his wife and two daughters, one of whom is a human rights attorney.

monkeysip · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:d67deaf8-6f1d-4797-8cda-34505ce72c44">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pope Francis : <strong>I'm not mischaracterizing anyone. I stated what my realtives and friends have said</strong>. I will tell you that in recent years I have felt more at home in my DH's Greek Orthodox Church which is even just as conservative and traditional as the Catholic church and is twice as long since mass is said in Greek and English. It isn't Catholic theology that pushes me away (I don't agree with all of it but that is another story), it is everything else I have already said. What I especially love about DH's parish is that when I met the priest, he introduced me to his wife and two daughters, one of whom is a human rights attorney.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]

But you then use that to characterize a lot of Catholics in general. I'm not denying that your friends or family have felt a certain way, but I'm saying they may not be as representative of the population as you seem to think.

GoodLuckBear14 · March 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_pope-francis?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:72a32753-f4de-4309-bd43-73248c1ed5cbPost:1e9993ac-d468-49d5-8907-7f2c77605437">Re: Pope Francis</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pope Francis : But you then use that to characterize a lot of Catholics in general. I'm not denying that your friends or family have felt a certain way, but I'm saying they may not be as representative of the population as you seem to think.
Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE]

Okay, I can see how you could see that. It wasn't my intent to lob everyone into the thinking of those I know.

caitriona87 · March 2013

Benedict actually brought tons of people back into the Church, both traditionalists and Anglicans (see the Ordinariate.) He also made strides in relations with the Orthodox.

I wasn't big on him until I saw him in person where his enthusiasm and love really shone through.

Pope Francis

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