Pitbulls and small children

tobeDrReed · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:cca8ac11-3e4c-4446-8ef5-f04c63960260">Re: Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE] After working at a vet's office, I've come to not trust pits, rottweilers, and dobermans, and I love rotties so that sucks. They were consistently the worst, most violent dogs that we saw. Granted, it was a vet's office so they aren't always on their best behavior, but it's all the personal experience I have to go on for pitbulls.
Posted by Seshat411[/QUOTE]

I'm really disappointed by this statement. If you worked for a veterinarian I would have hoped you were educated about dogs more. It is absolutely crap to say that these breeds of dogs are more dangerous than other breeds. Did you ever think that maybe your area of town has craptastic owners that gravitate to "status symbol" breeds and then teach them to be mean? Being on guard around big, scared dogs is one thing. To categorize them all as violent is completely different. Haven't you ever trimmed nails on a doxie or bassett? They're scared shitless and so posessive of their tiny little legs they try to bite. I wouldn't call them violent, simply scared.

Also, my brother and I adopted a pittie girl from some young guy that got into drugs heavy and quit taking care of her. This guy's parents took the dog when they realized she was being neglected. She was a patient at the vet clinic where I worked, the doctors and staff vouched for her so we picked her up that night. She now lives with my brother, SIL and their kids ages 4 & 2. She loves those kids more than anything. She is thier friend, guardian and sometimes their coloring book. She was always the first one to check on the babies when they were crying and the last one to leave the room when they were done. She LOVES those kids.

A stranger pulled into my brother's driveway and started lecturing him saying "Do you know what you have in your front yard there? That thing is going to eat your children!" My bro told him calmly it was time for him to get the F off of the property. Unfortunately it is people like this dumb redneck that "teach" people about pits as opposed to people getting to know my girlie and forming their own opinions. Sure she's big and strong, but nobody gives better doggie kisses than a pittie.

AmoroAgain · June 2010

My aunt and uncle had a rotweiller when they decided to have kids, and good lord did Cleo love those boys. She was theirs to the nth degree. Strangers couldn't approach the boys because she would take up a defensive posture, and nothing is scarrier to someone than a 120 Rot staring at them. lol But Cleo was the biggest sweetheart ever. She thought she was a lapdog!

sarah0725 · June 2010

My anecdotal evidence is more persuasive than your anecdotal evidence!

jayjoe · June 2010

My cousin has 2 rotties and they love her children (and everyone else). they have NEVER opened their mouths to anyone. That statement, Sesha, makes me really sad and again, frustrated.

danieliza1127 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:e8bcf0ba-0830-44d0-8e38-b758bfcc2015">Re: Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE]My anecdotal evidence is more persuasive than your anecdotal evidence!
Posted by sarah0725[/QUOTE]

That's pretty much all I read in this thread! :)

wadingmoose · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:8ed1fc2c-c6c4-4907-becc-4d68caca2c89">Re: Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pitbulls and small children : I'm really disappointed by this statement. If you worked for a veterinarian I would have hoped you were educated about dogs more. It is absolutely crap to say that these breeds of dogs are more dangerous than other breeds. Did you ever think that maybe your area of town has craptastic owners that gravitate to "status symbol" breeds and then teach them to be mean? Being on guard around big, scared dogs is one thing. To categorize them all as violent is completely different. Haven't you ever trimmed nails on a doxie or bassett? They're scared shitless and so posessive of their tiny little legs they try to bite. I wouldn't call them violent, simply scared. Also, my brother and I adopted a pittie girl from some young guy that got into drugs heavy and quit taking care of her. This guy's parents took the dog when they realized she was being neglected. She was a patient at the vet clinic where I worked, the doctors and staff vouched for her so we picked her up that night. She now lives with my brother, SIL and their kids ages 4 & 2. She loves those kids more than anything. She is thier friend, guardian and sometimes their coloring book. She was always the first one to check on the babies when they were crying and the last one to leave the room when they were done. She LOVES those kids. A stranger pulled into my brother's driveway and started lecturing him saying "Do you know what you have in your front yard there? That thing is going to eat your children!" My bro told him calmly it was time for him to get the F off of the property. Unfortunately it is people like this dumb redneck that "teach" people about pits as opposed to people getting to know my girlie and forming their own opinions. Sure she's big and strong, but nobody gives better doggie kisses than a pittie.
Posted by tobeDrReed[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but it still comes down to "Don't blame the dog. Blame the owner." Really. All of the anecdotal evidence in the world is pointless.

I know a Rottie who had to have surgery after he was attacked by a Jack Russell Terrier. The Rottie still has scars. The Jack Russell didn't even need to see a vet.

This clearly means that Jack Russell Terriers are awful dogs and shouldn't be near people at all.

mags0607 · June 2010

I would have reservations bringing any dog with an unknown history around small children. I would be even more hesitant if the dog was a large-breed, simply because of the physical strength of the dog. The breed is not the issue here, its the fact that it seems these people don't have the time to devote to a dog who may or may not have a history of violence or abuse.

It irks me to no end when people stereotype pitbulls, chows, rotweillers, German Shepards, or any other "guard" breed. The training of the dog and the environment in which it is raised play a huge part in how a dog reacts to people, other dog, or even stressful situations.

I would not leave ANY dog, no matter the breed or the size, alone with small children. Children and dogs need to both be trained to properly interact with each other and learn boundaries. Its unfortunate that there are people who do not teach their children the proper way to handle a dog, and a biting occurs. The dog is always blamed for something that was provoked by the child. It gives certain breeds a bad reputation, and prolongs fear, judgement and stereo-typing of certain breeds.

pinkpinot · June 2010

Every time Seshat posts, I read "asshat" in my head. Just thought I'd share.

hd7694 · June 2010

I had a chunk taken out of my a$$ by a chow when I was 8. Pits get a bad rap because of the stupidity of their owners. If they made a law that the stupid owners would be put to sleep if the dog attacked, dogs probably wouldn't be trained to be mean as often!

That being said, I agree that it is not the breed that I would worry about, it's the fact that it was abused.

[Deleted User] · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:8ed1fc2c-c6c4-4907-becc-4d68caca2c89">Re: Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pitbulls and small children : I'm really disappointed by this statement. If you worked for a veterinarian I would have hoped you were educated about dogs more. It is absolutely crap to say that these breeds of dogs are more dangerous than other breeds. Did you ever think that maybe your area of town has craptastic owners that gravitate to "status symbol" breeds and then teach them to be mean? Being on guard around big, scared dogs is one thing. To categorize them all as violent is completely different. Haven't you ever trimmed nails on a doxie or bassett? They're scared shitless and so posessive of their tiny little legs they try to bite. I wouldn't call them violent, simply scared.
Posted by tobeDrReed[/QUOTE]

I never said they are absolutely more dangerous than other breeds, I said that was what I noticed while working there. And I also said this was just my personal experience, as it is the only time I've been around pitbulls and dobermans. Yes, I am more on guard around those dogs than something like a basset or CKC or german shepard, but I'm also on guard around labs because bigger dogs just worry me.

I agree that the owners play a major role, Some of the time I knew them, other times the customers were complete strangers so I can't speak on how they treated them.

Celles · June 2010

"Pit bulls" (which isn't a breed per se, but rather a catch-all for several related types of terrier) were bred to be dog-aggressive but human-docile. If you think about it in context, this makes a lot of sense: they were bred for dog fighting, bear and boar baiting, etc., but their handlers needed to be able to step in at the end of a match and separate them without being bitten or mauled themselves.

Abuse and training can make them show aggression towards people, but -- as many, many posters have said -- that goes for ANY breed... from that fluffy maltipoo in Aunt Muriel's purse to the scaredy-cat German Shepherd dozing on my couch.

I posted this the last time this debate came up:

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

It's sad, but some of the people who are quickest to condemn pit bulls for nothing other than being pit bulls couldn't even identify one if they tried. This goes for the media and even animal care workers, btw: I used to do e-list rescue in Phoenix, and it seemed like any short-haired mix that wasn't immediately recognizable as a more common breed was mislabeled "pit bull," including my Lab/Hound mix, who doesn't have an ounce of any so-called "bully breed" in him. This accounts for a least part of the bad rap: pits are blamed for aggression in non pits because witnesses often can't tell the difference. Also, even though pits don't aggress against people more than any other breed, they are built to do more damage when they do. Hence the lack of "killer cocker spaniel" stories on the evening news.

The locking jaw thing is a myth though.

JennandJoel2010 · June 2010

I seem to be always late to these threads, and I guess I'm going to just echo what most people have said, but you shouldn't leave children unattended with ANY animal, regardless of it's breed.

Pitbulls, generally, have agression towards other dogs, not humans. The reason asshole people fight pitbulls is because a pitbull is loyal. They will do ANYTHING to please their master, including dying for them. They get a really, really bad rap and it's sad. I own a pitbull and I can't even begin to count how many encounters I've had with other people making ignorant comments. Yet after five minutes I'm getting all sorts of compliments on how well behaved she is.

I bring Nyla to our local dog park, and on one outing she was playing with a golden retriver. Guess what, the GOLDEN RETRIVER (you know, that wonderful family pet) attacked my dog, had her by the throat and was shaking her. The retriever's owner had to come over and basically punt his dog to her it off Nyla. And my "dangerous" pitbull did nothing. Didn't fight back. Just gave a WTF look to the dog and was on her merry way. Needless to say I was a really proud mama.

How can you not love this face?

[Deleted User] · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:c7fcc023-d13e-4571-ae6a-09edbb6aadcc">Re: Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE]My cousin has 2 rotties and they love her children (and everyone else). they have NEVER opened their mouths to anyone. That statement, Sesha, makes me really sad and again, frustrated.
Posted by jayjoe[/QUOTE]

It may have come out wrong, but I didn't mean to say that these breeds are the most dangerous dogs out there and should never be owned as pets. I merely meant that with my personal experience with bigger, stronger dogs, those are the ones I found to be more aggressive. Or, at the very least, harder to control. An angry CKC or cocker spaniel is easier to keep from biting than a bigger dog, for me anyway, I'm not very strong. And I also said that yes, considering it was a vet's office, they are more likely to be scared and defensive, which is to be expected. My own cat, the sweetest little guy in the world, hisses and grows as soon as you bring him to the vet.

I've never seen a pitbul or doberman in a home setting, but I have seen rotties and I agree that they can be fantastic pets. My uncle has a couple and they are sweet as can be. But anyone else's dog that I don't know? I will always be on guard.

LD1970 · June 2010

Never should small children be left unattended with ANY dog.

My sister & her husband already had a large & rambunctious black lab mutt and a rescued pit before they had a kid. The pit has 3 legs because his original owner thought an at-home amputation might be a good idea. Yeah, I have no idea how the dog has stayed so sweet (it has), if my limb was cut off sans anesthesia, I'd turn into a biter!

At any rate, the dogs are mostly fine with my nephew, who's now 5.5 months old. They constantly want to lick him, but that's it.

Like I said, never unattended. Someone's always around when they're in the same room or in the backyard together. And they removed the regular bedroom door from my nephew's room & put up a screen door instead, so they can hear my nephew, but the room's always off limits to the dogs.

So yeah, it can be done. And pits are generally actually very sweet, good dogs (my parents have one too), sweeter than my 1/2 sheltie 1/2 eskimo who would despise my nephew if she met him. She is definitely NOT a dog for kids, and she's only 25 lbs. So you can't really go by breed that way.

JennandJoel2010 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:48ded6cc-181d-4151-8830-228367ed486a">Re: Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE]I would have reservations bringing any dog with an unknown history around small children. I would be even more hesitant if the dog was a large-breed, simply because of the physical strength of the dog. The breed is not the issue here, its the fact that it seems these people don't have the time to devote to a dog who may or may not have a history of violence or abuse. Posted by mags0607[/QUOTE]

This. Owning a dog is hard work, and it's extra hard work to own a dog with a history of abuse or neglect. Those dogs sometimes need special care, with an owner who can devote their time almost soley to this dog. That doesn't seem to be the situation in the OPs case, and that's where I'd be worried.

I don't leave my pit alone with anyone, not because I don't trust her or because I think she's going to snap, just for the basic fact that she's 75 pounds of muscle. She's a big sweetheart, but when she's coming after you because she's excited to play it could be pretty intimidating to a new person or a child.

LD1970 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:f5bfd0d0-4cda-43ab-a76d-72d73ddc904e">Re: Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pitbulls and small children : I never said they are absolutely more dangerous than other breeds, I said that was what I noticed while working there. And I also said this was just my personal experience, as it is the only time I've been around pitbulls and dobermans. Yes, I am more on guard around those dogs than something like a basset or CKC or german shepard, but I'm also on guard around labs because bigger dogs just worry me. I agree that the owners play a major role, Some of the time I knew them, other times the customers were complete strangers so I can't speak on how they treated them.
Posted by Seshat411[/QUOTE]
Hm... my sister IS a vet and has only been bitten by a Chow and a Yorkie, of all things. Damned Yorkie bit right through her white coat and drew blood, in a little Yorkie jaw shape.

jayjoe · June 2010

You know what really breaks my heart? I'm always at the AC&C (animal shelter) donating stuff for the animals. I was told my one of the volunteers that when a rottie or pittie are brought in, they are dead the second they walk in the door. People come in with kids and talk about how dangerous they are. No one takes em. And what makes me laugh is that the three or four times i was bitten by a dog it was by one of those annoying little yappie ones. I have had friends get rid of little dogs for biting their kids as well. But those rotties and pitties? Let them die.

[Deleted User] · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:985f1f03-3ca1-495b-849d-10b99878465f">Re: Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pitbulls and small children : Hm... my sister IS a vet and has only been bitten by a Chow and a Yorkie, of all things. Damned Yorkie bit right through her white coat and drew blood, in a little Yorkie jaw shape.
Posted by LD1970[/QUOTE]

The only dogs that bit me (really hard, at least) at the vet were a rottie and a CKC, hard enough to draw blood but not need stitches. I received more cat bites and scratches than dog. I actually never even saw a chow there. But it's not like it can be held against them, they were in a strange place and scared. Though I do blame the CKC's owner for just shrugging and saying, "Oh, did I forget to tell you that she bites anyone who tries to pet her?"

jayjoe · June 2010

[/QUOTE] In But anyone else's dog that I don't know? I will always be on guard.
Posted by Seshat411[/QUOTE]

thats just common sense. I love animals but i'm always cautious around other peoples or strays.

sarah0725 · June 2010

You guys all sound like responsible dog owners, unlike Salty's friend.

Blueyed228 · June 2010

I own a pure bred pit bull. She is going to be 9 next month and is great with other dogs and kids. I would never leave any dog unattended with small kids, that is just irresponsible.

She is a sweetheart who has never shown any sign of aggression. The only time she barks is if someone comes to my door at night.

I also was terrorized by a cocker spaniel when I was a kid, and got bit in the head by a golden when i was 7.

[Deleted User] · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:de071f86-20a0-42cf-ac37-d75cf26e1fa8">Re: Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE][/QUOTE] In But anyone else's dog that I don't know? I will always be on guard. Posted by Seshat411[/QUOTE] thats just common sense. I love animals but i'm always cautious around other peoples or strays.
Posted by jayjoe[/QUOTE]

Right, that's all I'm really saying. Having experienced how aggressive animals can be, whether at the vet's office, being attacked by a Golden as a kid, or trying to save my cat from a raccon attack, I can't help but be extra cautious around them, especially big dogs that I know I don't stand a chance against.

One of H's customers has 6 huge labs that come racing out of the house every time you walk up. 2 of them have bit people, so seeing that wall of dogs running towards me is freakin scary, even though they've never bitten me.

LD1970 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_pitbulls-small-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:ea564c24-c774-4d5e-abbc-3afc6114faffPost:87cc7fb4-9050-49cb-a667-2e5606f4f624">Re: Pitbulls and small children</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pitbulls and small children : Though I do blame the CKC's owner for just shrugging and saying, "Oh, did I forget to tell you that she bites anyone who tries to pet her?"
Posted by Seshat411[/QUOTE]
That dog owner should be shot for his/her level of irresponsibility. Ass.

[Deleted User] · June 2010

LD-she was actually eventually asked not to come back because she got into a fight with one of the vets. The vet was doing a regular annual exam and was taking the dog's temp. Naturally, the dog wasn't happy about it and started squirming and the owner flipped out and said the vet was abusing her dog. There's more, but that's the gist of it. Basically more proof that most dog behaviors fall on the shoulders of the owner.

LD1970 · June 2010

Sounds like a royal twit.

That's actually how my sis got bitten by the Yorkie - she was taking its temperature, and the dog was displeased at having a thermometer up its rear.

The Chow bite came when my sister was teching, prior to getting into vet school, and was told by a doofus vet to lift the Chow, by herself, onto the examination table. The dog felt unstable, wriggled around, and bit her behind the ear. That one caused a nice infection too.

I myself have been bitten 3 times that I remember:

An unknown junkyard dog when I was a kid that I was stupid to try & pet without asking the owners first.

A German shepherd belonging to my friend. I knew it didn't like people and stupidly approached it anyway, and even more stupidly tried to pet it overhand without letting it smell me underhand. Yeah, my own lapse in brains there.

An ex-boss' cocker spaniel. From what I understand, spaniels can be pretty nippy.

And my own dog was pretty bitey as a puppy. We taught her "no biting, only kisses," so now if she's angry with you, she just kisses furiously. It's hilarious.

LD1970 · June 2010

Oh! And my dog - the 1/2 sheltie 1/2 eskimo - is fine at the vet if I'm in the room with her but if they need to take her in back for anything without me, they have to muzzle her. She gets nasty with them when I'm not around. She used to be fine when my sis was a vet tech there, but now that she's gone, the dog doesn't trust the new kids.

[Deleted User] · June 2010

DH got bit by a rottie when he worked at an emergency clinic because of that--the dog felt unstable when lifted and bit out of fear. But the vet told DH he would be fine, that he had a hold of his head so he couldn't bite, and as soon as the dog squirmed the vet let go. Idiot. DH ended up with a ansty bite on his hand and antibiotics to go with it. .

And my cat is the same way. If I'm there, he sits calmly on the table with his head buried in my arms. If someone tries to take him to the back he gets nasty, so they just let me go back with him. It's easier.

LD1970 · June 2010

It's kind of flattering that they rely on us & trust us so much.

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