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Not Engaged Yet
msuprincess04
member
Living together before the ring?
So, in my boredom yesterday I started cleaning out my room. I came across the book "Become Your Own Matchmaker" by Patty Stanger "the Millionaire Matchmaker". I flipped through it because I don't think I've opened it in years and happened to see one of the last chapters. It said very clearly, not to move in with someone till you have a ring and a date set. When there's a ring involved there's a clear definition of commitment and willingness to work through anything. Without it, either can leave at any time. It's better not to give up your independence till you know what you are getting for it. Ok. I see this argument. But to me, it's never been that big of a deal. Though, now I'm starting to wonder. To my bf, he prefers we live together before he proposes. And now, we are trying to figure out what's next for us which includes our living situation.
Just wondered others opinions on the subject.
Just wondered others opinions on the subject.
"There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness."
-Friedrich Nietzsche, "On Reading and Writing"
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Living together before the ring?
This debate could go on and on forever but I think communication is way more important than whether or not a couple lives together before marriage. IMO living together isn't important in a general sense that each couple needs to do what is best for them.
We've lived together pretty much since we started dating. Before moving in, we were pretty much a long-distance relationship because our hometowns are about an hour and a half away, and with him working and me both working and in school, we never saw each other. Living together has taught me a lot about his life and how he behaves, and I think that if we waited until engagement to move in, I would have left him because I would have been expecting more maturity on his end. Moving in was a step in a wonderful direction and I feel like we wouldn't be as in love with each other if we hadn't taken this step.
[QUOTE]I feel like i've struck a bit of a nerve here...which was not my intent. I was simply trying to present an alternative viewpoint. I know that i'm in the minority here, and that's ok. Honestly, some of the comments are a bit hurtful (though not intentionally hurtful, I know). I just believe there is more to knowing a person than living together OR length of time.<strong> In the example of 2 couples together for the same length of time - only difference being one lives together and the other does not. How can anyone say one couple knows each other better? It is undeterminable. No one knows how they communicate, if they share life goals, what life experiences they've shared. </strong>There is so much more that goes into knowing a person. Hopefully we'll all continue to learn about our SOs throughout our relationships with them. People evolve and change, so there is constant opportunity to learn about your partner. Whichever side you're on, there are pros and cons. There is no right or wrong.
Posted by allusive007[/QUOTE]
I didn't mean that they know more about each other's personalities, life goals, etc, I simply meant they would know more about each other's living habits. In the grand scheme of things, these are very small details that likely wouldn't influence your relationship one way or another (and things you'd learn eventually).
For example, before I lived with H, I spent most of my time there anyways so I knew that he wore his clothes directly from the dryer and that he left half drank sodas in the fridge, but there were some things that he did only when I wasn't there (or would pick up before I came over). So when I moved in with him, I saw the complete picture of what he was like 24/7. Things like him kicking his shoes off in the middle of the kitchen, or leaving toothpaste spills in the sink. Definitely NOT dealbreakers by any means, and not information that means I <em>know</em> him better as a person, just that I knew all the little nuances of his daily life that you never really get to see until you are there all the time. KWIM?
Really the only difference of living together before or after marriage is the adjustment period of your living habits. Because I lived with H before we got married, there was zero adjustment after the wedding. I don't get annoyed by the little things, it doesn't cause arguements, etc because I knew full well what they were and I've already adjusted to it (of course, not to say some of the little things don't annoy me, but I just mean it's not like it surprises me). However, we did go through that adjustment period early in our relationship and made it through just fine, so I imagine going through that period after marriage could be even easier.
Like I said, there's nothing right or wrong about living together or not before marriage, it's a decision that's different for every couple. Basically what I was trying to get across is that it doesn't really matter when you move in with someone because there will always be things to learn about one another. Some things you learn faster from living together (ie daily habits) and some things (like personality, goals, etc) happen at the 'same' time regardless of your living situation, but that doesn't automatically have a bearing on the overall success of your relationship one way or another.
BF and I do not live together and won't until we're at least engaged. This is not for religious reasons or because we believe our relationship will fail or an engagement will be postponed if we do. We are waiting to live together because we want there to be a significant change in our lives when we get married. We are both pretty independent individuals, so this set-up allows us each some freedoms while we're still unmarried. For example, I purchased my own home 4 years ago and I probably wouldn't have done that if we were already sharing an apartment together. Had we been living together, BF probably wouldn't have decided on a career change and gone back to school a year and a half ago.
For us, we feel that our individual experiences make us stronger as a couple. We don't want to limit outselves or each other by only making decisions based on how it may impact the other person. We are not financially tied, we do not have children yet...there is no reason we have to make decisions together.
I think sometimes we pour all of ourselves into another person, into our relationships. There is a "giving" stage in life. Marriage and children are a part of that giving period. Prior to marriage though, I believe you can share yourself while still being a bit selfish. It's the time to set your own goals, fulfil your own wants and make yourself happy. Often people who give that "selfish" stage up too early in life end up resenting it.
[QUOTEWe are waiting to live together because we want there to be a significant change in our lives when we get married.
Posted by allusive007[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]I think this is the whole "why buy the cow if you're already getting the milk for free" argument...and it's a bit antiquated IMHO. BF and I do not live together and won't until we're at least engaged. This is not for religious reasons or because we believe our relationship will fail or an engagement will be postponed if we do. We are waiting to live together because we want there to be a significant change in our lives when we get married. We are both pretty independent individuals, so this set-up allows us each some freedoms while we're still unmarried. For example, I purchased my own home 4 years ago and I probably wouldn't have done that if we were already sharing an apartment together. Had we been living together, BF probably wouldn't have decided on a career change and gone back to school a year and a half ago. For us, we feel that our individual experiences make us stronger as a couple. We don't want to limit outselves or each other by only making decisions based on how it may impact the other person. We are not financially tied, we do not have children yet...there is no reason we have to make decisions together. I think sometimes we pour all of ourselves into another person, into our relationships. There is a "giving" stage in life. Marriage and children are a part of that giving period. Prior to marriage though, I believe you can share yourself while still being a bit selfish. It's the time to set your own goals, fulfil your own wants and make yourself happy. <strong>Often people who give that "selfish" stage up too early in life end up resenting it.
</strong>Posted by allusive007[/QUOTE]
This is exactly why I (we) don't want to have kids. We are both selfish. We both acknowledge it too. I love my me time and he enjoys his too. We make it a point at least once a week to have our own time apart from each other.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Living together before the ring? : I get what you're saying. But I also wanted to add that there are very important issues that might be dealbreakers for some that just wouldn't come up without living together. For example, a person might not know what it's like to share finances with her SO before being responsible for a property together. Sure it's possible to learn your SO's attitude toward finances and debt before moving in together, but sometimes it doesn't really sink in until it's affecting your wallet too. If BF had been financially irresponsible or careless with racking up debt I could see that being a dealbreaker for me.
Posted by Daisy125[/QUOTE]
I have to respectfully disagree with this. I understand what you are trying to say too, but living together should not be the way to find out about finances. Regardless of who you are living with, how the bills are going to be paid is something that must be discussed and agreed upon before moving in together. Also, I don't think either party is under any obligation to disclose their financial situation if you are only living together and not engaged or married. You are not combining finances and the only thing that really matters at this point is that the bills (for shared living expenses) are being paid in full and on time. Sure you might find out that your SO isn't always on time with paying bills, but I'm not convinced that you can learn how careless someone is or isn't with their finances simply by living with them.
Talking and agreeing upon how the finances are going to be handled (combining, debt, paying bills, etc) is something you must absolutely do before getting married and is independent of the prior living situation.
This is not to say that you don't know a person's heart, because I don't think that that has anything to do with living together. I do, however, think there are a lot of other major things that can't really be experienced before living together.
A lot of people say stuff about wanting some huge change to occur after the wedding. Well, being MARRIED is a huge change. I am ecstatic that after the wedding we can fall back into our normal routine without having to adjust to moving in together. I know at least 2 couples who got divorced (after LTRs where they didn't live together prior) because there was so much about their SO that they couldn't handle when living together. That obviously isn't the case for everyone either.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Living together before the ring? : SAME HERE!
Posted by LivLeighton[/QUOTE]
<div>Ditto. But I don't think living together was the sole cause of our friendship disolving.</div>
That being said, I think living with a BF is a personal decision, something that no book or other person can tell you. I decided to live with my BF but it took me a few months before I decided it was definitely what I wanted to do. Now I'm so glad I did! I went from living on my own (no roommates) for 6 years to living with BF, and I thought it would be a lot more difficult than it is. Yes there are things he does that drive me bonkers, but its nothing I can't handle (unless I'm PMSing, that's always rough). It's really nice to eat together almost every night, sleep together every night, watch tv shows regularly... and yet we still have plenty of time to ourselves!! We have had ups and downs, but the ups definitely outweigh the downs.
While I respect everyone's opinions, I have one point of contention with the "you don't truly know someone until you've lived with them" argument. Do we really base our knowledge of people on how long we've lived with them?
I base my knowledge of a person on the length of time I've known them and the experiences we've shared together. Can you really tell me that a woman who moves in with her BF after 6 months of dating knows him better than I know my guy after dating 5 years - strictly because she's living with him? I don't think so. If you've spent time together, stayed at each other's places and have dated long enough to have gotten past the "honeymoon" stage with each other...then I believe you can know a person without living together.
I believe most couples choose to live together before marriage not because it's going to help them get to know each other better, but because they:
1. want to save money on rent
2. want to spend more time together/not commute to see each other
3. aren't ready to make a lifelong commitment, but want to feel their relationship is progressing
I don't feel that you have to live separately before marriage, but it should be an acceptable option. There is nothing that proves your marriage will or will not work out based on your previous living arrangements. If you're deciding to live with an SO strictly based on whether or not you'll be more likely to get engaged to that person in the future - you're probably not ready for that step.
My boyfriend and I moved in together this past March. It's been a trying experience, but I have never felt so close to someone. I know that he uses the bathroom with the door open, and he knows that my towel will be in the floor every morning. We don't even fuss about it anymore. He'll pick up my towel for me, and I'll spray the house with air freshner for both of us. Haha.
Honestly, I think that if you find your match, it doesn't matter if you wait or move in the day after you meet. Plus, Patty scares me. Haha.
[QUOTE]Let me preface this by saying that everyone has a right to feel differently on this subject and I know I'm in the minority here. While I respect everyone's opinions, I have one point of contention with the "you don't truly know someone until you've lived with them" argument. Do we really base our knowledge of people on how long we've lived with them? I base my knowledge of a person on the length of time I've known them and the experiences we've shared together.<strong> Can you really tell me that a woman who moves in with her BF after 6 months of dating knows him better than I know my guy after dating 5 years - strictly because she's living with him? I don't think so.</strong> If you've spent time together, stayed at each other's places and have dated long enough to have gotten past the "honeymoon" stage with each other...then I believe you can know a person without living together. I believe most couples choose to live together before marriage not because it's going to help them get to know each other better, but because they: 1. want to save money on rent 2. want to spend more time together/not commute to see each other 3. aren't ready to make a lifelong commitment, but want to feel their relationship is progressing I don't feel that you have to live separately before marriage, but it should be an acceptable option. There is nothing that proves your marriage will or will not work out based on your previous living arrangements. If you're deciding to live with an SO strictly based on whether or not you'll be more likely to get engaged to that person in the future - you're probably not ready for that step.
Posted by allusive007[/QUOTE]
<div>I don't think anyone was saying this at all & I don't think most people would agree with it either. </div><div>
</div><div>I think a more equal comparison would be a couple that lives together & a couple that doesn't, with both couples being together for the same length of time. </div><div>
</div><div>Do you really think you don't learn things about your SO when you move in together that you might not have known prior?</div>
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Living together before the ring? : I don't think anyone was saying this at all & I don't think most people would agree with it either. I think a more equal comparison would be a couple that lives together & a couple that doesn't, with both couples being together for the same length of time. <strong>Do you really think you don't learn things about your SO when you move in together that you might not have known prior?
</strong>Posted by rdr716[/QUOTE]
My point is that I believe that you will learn things about your SO whether your live together or not.
I don't believe you have to live with a person to get to the core of them. Things that would be deal breakers for me in a relationship are:
1. cheating
2. abuse
3. inability to communicate respectfully
4. lack of shared life goals
5. disagree on having/not having children
My ability to know a person in relation to the things i've listed is not impacted by whether or not I live with them. Dirty laundry and wet towels are not deal breakers for me.
[QUOTE]Can you really tell me that a woman who moves in with her BF after 6 months of dating knows him better than I know my guy after dating 5 years - strictly because she's living with him? I don't think so. If you've spent time together, stayed at each other's places and have dated long enough to have gotten past the "honeymoon" stage with each other...then I believe you can know a person without living together.
Posted by allusive007[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on this. You know people better the amount of time you spend with them. I don't really count this as years or months though... I count it more as amount of quality/conversational time spent together. You can live with someone and still not <em>know</em> them!
Getting past the honeymoon stage is <strong>extremely</strong> important IMO. And it's also important that each person is an individual as well!! Only then should couples consider moving in together, and even then its good to go in with your expectations for the coming years, I don't really mean specifics here, I mean more of a general idea.
[QUOTE]IMy ability to know a person in relation to the things i've listed is not impacted by whether or not I live with them. Dirty laundry and wet towels are not deal breakers for me.
Posted by allusive007[/QUOTE]
I agree. I think you can know the important and deal breakers without living together. It's the day to day life that I was concerned with. I don't think that my relationship is stronger than someone who is waiting. My relationship with my boyfriend is stronger than what my relationship with my boyfriend would be if we were living separately. It really is about what works for you and your SO. Living together works for us.
So what changed my mind? First, BF really needed us to move in together and make sure it was going to work. He had lived with someone before, many years ago, and it immediately didn't work. So he was a little worried about that. He also wanted us to "move forward" but wasn't ready to propose. Second, I realized I didn't have to sell my house and move all my furniture. Because we live an hour and a half from where I work, instead I left everything in that house (it's close to where I work), and now I stay in the house when I'm down here for work. It's actually convenient, even though it's expensive. LASTLY, in regards to the cow-milk argument . . . let's be honest, the dairy was already open!! So that argument went out the window.
So once we talked everything through, I moved in. And we got a puppy at the same time. I won't like - there were some difficult moments. I had never lived with anyone and I was gone a lot more than normal for work; those combined with a brand new puppy sometimes made things stressful. But going through that and coming out on the other side (now, a year and a half later, in a brand new house, happy-happy) I'm SO HAPPY we lived together first!! Not only did it allow us to get to know each other better but it really taught us that we can work through issues. Before we lived together we hadn't even really had an argument. Not that we started fighting when we moved in but it definitely presented opportunities to work through things. Also, neither one of you can hide anything when you live together. You get grumpy if someone wakes you up first thing in the morning or you're a little OCD about the dishes or anything like that? You'll both find those things about the other person. I'm glad BF and I know those things about each other and I know that when we get married, there won't be any scary surprises waiting for me - at least in that arena!
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Living together before the ring? : Dirty laundry and wet towels are not deal breakers for me.
Posted by allusive007[/QUOTE]
Those aren't dealbreakers for me either... I don't think people actually break up over dirty towels and dishes...
There's no right or wrong answer. Some people choose to live with their SO, others choose not to. The only "right" way is to do what you and your SO feel is the right choice by making adult decisions.
[QUOTE]Let me preface this by saying that everyone has a right to feel differently on this subject and I know I'm in the minority here. While I respect everyone's opinions, I have one point of contention with the "you don't truly know someone until you've lived with them" argument. Do we really base our knowledge of people on how long we've lived with them? I base my knowledge of a person on the length of time I've known them and the experiences we've shared together. <strong>Can you really tell me that a woman who moves in with her BF after 6 months of dating knows him better than I know my guy after dating 5 years - strictly because she's living with him? I don't think so.</strong> If you've spent time together, stayed at each other's places and have dated long enough to have gotten past the "honeymoon" stage with each other...then I believe you can know a person without living together. I believe most couples choose to live together before marriage not because it's going to help them get to know each other better, but because they: 1. want to save money on rent 2. want to spend more time together/not commute to see each other 3. aren't ready to make a lifelong commitment, but want to feel their relationship is progressing I don't feel that you have to live separately before marriage, but it should be an acceptable option. There is nothing that proves your marriage will or will not work out based on your previous living arrangements. If you're deciding to live with an SO strictly based on whether or not you'll be more likely to get engaged to that person in the future - you're probably not ready for that step.
Posted by allusive007[/QUOTE]
That's not what anyone is trying to say. Obviously, dating someone for 5 years and 6 months, whether you live together or not, there is going to be a big difference in how well you know each other.
However I will say that if you take two couples who have been dating for 5 years, one who hasn't lived with each other, and another who's lived together for 4 years, then yes, I will say the couple living together probably 'knows more' about each other. I don't think this particular knowledge gives one couple an edge of the other because it's not going to be life-altering information that you couldn't possibly have a successful marriage without it, just the little things that only come from living together 100% of the time (sleeping over often can definitely give similar info, but there's still that opportunity to present only your best self).
Again, I don't think living together is 'better' than not living together, or that it'll make your marriage succeed over anyone elses', it's just a different path.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Living together before the ring? : <strong>My point is that I believe that you will learn things about your SO whether your live together or not.</strong> I don't believe you have to live with a person to get to the core of them. Things that would be deal breakers for me in a relationship are: 1. cheating 2. abuse 3. inability to communicate respectfully 4. lack of shared life goals 5. disagree on having/not having children My ability to know a person in relation to the things i've listed is not impacted by whether or not I live with them. Dirty laundry and wet towels are not deal breakers for me.
Posted by allusive007[/QUOTE]
<div>IMO there are things that you'll learn about your SO when you live together regardless of how long you've been in a relationship and regardless of when this happens (whether it's 6 months in, once you're engaged, or after you're married). </div>
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Living together before the ring? : I agree. This is why I used the roommate example..<strong>.I had great friends that I simply could not live with as roommates.</strong> ETA: I have no idea why this keeps ending up at the top.
Posted by LivLeighton[/QUOTE]
<div>My best friend from college and I lived together senior year & it was miserable. We're actually not friends anymore.</div>
I guess I'm one of the minority here, but I wont live with FI until we're married. It's partly for religious reasons, but I also just don't want to. I want that change to happen after the wedding date, personally.
Not that I judge people who do move in before they're married. Just not something that's for me.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Living together before the ring? : IMO <strong>there are things that you'll learn about your SO when you live together regardless of how long you've been in a relationship and regardless of when this happens (whether it's 6 months in, once you're engaged, or after you're married).
</strong>Posted by rdr716[/QUOTE]
I agree with this. I know that there are many things that I don't know about FI because I haven't lived with him, but I want to learn those things after we're married.
I have to agree with Allusive, I often feel like the girls who live with their SO before marriage give off the vibe that they know more about their SO then someone who isn’t living with their SO. I really don’t like it but I also think it isn’t an intentional thing. I know that they don’t think that they have the best way but sometimes it feels like they think it is. IDK just my two cents as I am not living with FI so maybe I feel more sensitive to the “criticism” of not living with your SO. And I also don’t that that anyone has any living habits that others are totally unable to live with. It might drive you crazy but in a relationship both people have to work on things so picking the towels up off the floor is something that can be worked out. Like I said though, I do have no previous experience with living with FI so who knows. And like I said I know you girls don’t mean to come off that way but it often feels like that to me. And please don’t feel like you have to change what you post in this post just to make me feel better.
Married! May 27th, 2012