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Wedding Etiquette Forum
t.kaufman
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Do you plan to submit to your husband?
Found this on the Christian board [I was just visiting for fun because I am not religious] and almost threw up. Just wondering how many of you plan to be "good Christian wives" and "submit to your husbands?" Note that the bold print is done by the writer, not by me.
this is in answer to the question of how to be a good Christian wife:
"The first quality is that you've accepted Christ as your savior and have surrendered your life to Him. It would be foolish for me to assume anything, as only God can know your heart. If you haven't taken this step, you can PM me if you wish, ask on here, or talk to your pastor. Another quality of a Christian wife is that she accepts her husband as the spiritual leader of the home. This can only be met if her husband has also accepted Christ as his savior and surrendered his life to Him. Accepting your husband as the spiritual leader brings submission with it. This is not meant to be a dictatorship.
Epehsians 5:22-30 (ESV): "22Wives, submit to your own husbands,as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, His body, and isHimself its Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. 25Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the Word, 27so that He might present the church to Himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30because we are members of His body."
this is in answer to the question of how to be a good Christian wife:
"The first quality is that you've accepted Christ as your savior and have surrendered your life to Him. It would be foolish for me to assume anything, as only God can know your heart. If you haven't taken this step, you can PM me if you wish, ask on here, or talk to your pastor. Another quality of a Christian wife is that she accepts her husband as the spiritual leader of the home. This can only be met if her husband has also accepted Christ as his savior and surrendered his life to Him. Accepting your husband as the spiritual leader brings submission with it. This is not meant to be a dictatorship.
Epehsians 5:22-30 (ESV): "22Wives, submit to your own husbands,as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, His body, and isHimself its Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. 25Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the Word, 27so that He might present the church to Himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30because we are members of His body."
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Re: Do you plan to submit to your husband?
House / Baby blog
katiewhompus - LOL! I don't think that's what they meant by submitting...
House / Baby blog
[QUOTE]This is why some Christians scare me.
Posted by Champagne Supernova[/QUOTE]
Ummm, this. <div>
</div><div>Their will be no submitting going on here. Just sex. </div>
[QUOTE]katiewhompus - LOL! I don't think that's what they meant by submitting...
Posted by t.kaufman[/QUOTE]
Well that just takes all the fun right out of it...
I asked Scott if I submitted to him, he started laughing hysterically and then got me a popsicle...
House / Baby blog
[QUOTE]I am the submissive in one aspect of our relationship if that counts...
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]
I like this response.
Fi and I are not religious and are undecided about what faith are children will be raised in. So needless to say, we will not strictly follow the bible's teachings on marriage and submission.
Though... yes, I have heard this before and I bet some people will post about how this is a good thing, etc. If it works for them, fine.
I can't answer the poll, because I'm not a heathen nor a Christian. I'm kind of in limbo right now. But mark my relationship down as equal if you're taking notes.
40/112
House / Baby blog
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you plan to submit to your husband? : Well that just takes all the fun right out of it...<strong> I asked Scott if I submitted to him, he started laughing hysterically and then got me a popsicle...</strong>
Posted by katiewhompus[/QUOTE]
Awesome.
I actually was in a wedding two years ago where the Pastor had my friend repeat him for her vows and he said "I promise to love, honor and obey my husband" at the "obey part" I almost burst out laughing - sure it was a joke. She didn't know it was coming either but went with it because she was so shocked. I would have stopped right there and said "Sure I'll love and honor, but no way in hell I'm obeying!"
Anyways - to answer the question. Being in a couple is a partnership and both parties should have equal say.
Other than the submission part, there are some lovely aspects to the passage. Like: 28In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30because we are members of His body.
I don't think Jesus is actually recommending submission of wife to husband. I'd like to think it's a dual submission, that both individuals strive to love the other wholy, to become one. Between translational errors of language, context and poetry, we get a few statements that are ripe for misinterpretation.
Also, historically, at the time that passage was written, in most marriages, the man would be the spiritual leader of the household. Between menstruation and childbirth and household tasks, women would often be considered unclean and unable to enter the temple. Now that Christians don't have be also be practicing Jews, there aren't the same cleanliness rules, and women probably are as spiritually educated as men. My FI looks to me for a lot of religious guidance because I study the Bible more than he does.
But other than doing what katiewhompus says she does, no, I'm not the submissive type.
It's pretty poor taste to mock someone else's religious beliefs. I read this as a joke
Blog
Oh DH, you mae me laugh.
However, when my church first starting talking about this, my response was 'uhhh nope', but with further research into it, I realized it wasn't mean't as I had first thought.
DH is the more submissive one though ;o) Hah
Nose Job Blog
Bio
[QUOTE]Other than the submission part, there are some lovely aspects to the passage. Like: 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of His body. I don't think Jesus is actually recommending submission of wife to husband. I'd like to think it's a dual submission, that both individuals strive to love the other wholy, to become one. Between translational errors of language, context and poetry, we get a few statements that are ripe for misinterpretation. Also, historically, at the time that passage was written, in most marriages, the man would be the spiritual leader of the household. Between menstruation and childbirth and household tasks, women would often be considered unclean and unable to enter the temple. Now that Christians don't have be also be practicing Jews, there aren't the same cleanliness rules, and women probably are as spiritually educated as men. My FI looks to me for a lot of religious guidance because I study the Bible more than he does. But other than doing what katiewhompus says she does, no, I'm not the submissive type. :)
Posted by mica178[/QUOTE]
I agree with this. I've always read this passage as being more of an equal exchange of love.
[QUOTE]My FI joked that he wanted that passage to be read during our wedding. Other than the submission part, there are some lovely aspects to the passage. Like: 28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of His body. I don't think Jesus is actually recommending submission of wife to husband. I'd like to think it's a dual submission, that both individuals strive to love the other wholy, to become one. Between translational errors of language, context and poetry, we get a few statements that are ripe for misinterpretation. Also, historically, at the time that passage was written, in most marriages, the man would be the spiritual leader of the household. Between menstruation and childbirth and household tasks, women would often be considered unclean and unable to enter the temple. Now that Christians don't have be also be practicing Jews, there aren't the same cleanliness rules, and women probably are as spiritually educated as men. My FI looks to me for a lot of religious guidance because I study the Bible more than he does. But other than doing what katiewhompus says she does, no, I'm not the submissive type. :)
Posted by mica178[/QUOTE]
This. Some doctrines take this much too far. Each should submit to one another. When it says husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church, it's not meant to be "boss them around and treat them like sh*t." I've heard women use this verse in abusive relationships, that's BS. Each should submit to each other = be equal and work together in love. It is a great verse, too bad it's often misinterrupted by too many women...and men.
[QUOTE]I'm an atheist, as is fi. But if another couple finds their happiness in following the Bible, who am I to say they're wrong? Or vomit-inducing? I don't think it's cool to mock someone's religious beliefs (although I guess there are exceptions).
Posted by ohwhynot[/QUOTE]
<div>
</div><div>I agree. OP - if stuff that is on the Christian board causes you to almost throw up, why do you read it? It is not meant for your entertainment.</div>
[QUOTE]Gag me with a fucking pitchfork. I had to read that passage in my brother's wedding. My mom and I were fighting it up to the very last second.
Posted by KentuckyKate[/QUOTE]
Why fight this? If this is what they wanted and what they truly believe in, why give them a hard time about it? It doesn't hurt anyone (I don't think it does) and it's their choice to have marriage a certain way? So why get in the way of it?
Unless of course one of them was vehemently opposed to it as well, then I could understand fighting it. I liken it to opposing a Hindu ceremony because it's not what you believe. If the male and female are aware of their rights as human beings, but choose to live a certain way in which they are maybe more submissive than some of us would personally prefer, but it's not hurting anyone, why oppose it?
EDIT: I maybe should have separated out those thoughts a bit more. I don't know enough about hinduism to know the family dynamic, I was trying to make two separate points and made them too close together. So, I was not trying to imply that Hindus have very submissive marriages and ignore their human rights. Just trying to make two points, didn't come out well. :)
And I'm not so sure we are to take everything literally, word for word, but to interpret the meaning in the Words. There are way too many people doing that to serve their own good - on TV and not on TV.
FWIW - I am the granddaughter of a United Methodist minister, and was raised in the church. My husband is not a church-goer but probably would agree with my statement above. I would not call him an Atheist; I don't even think I would call him an Agnostic. But he didn't like the hypocrisy he saw when he went as a kid/teen.
None of the statements reallly apply to me, since I don't think that verse is meant to be taken literally. We work as a team, though, and make decisions together.
Do not mess in the affairs of dinosaurs because you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
I love you Missy. Even though you are not smart enough to take online quizzes to find out really important information. ~cew
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you plan to submit to your husband? : Why fight this? If this is what they wanted and what they truly believe in, why give them a hard time about it? It doesn't hurt anyone (I don't think it does) and it's their choice to have marriage a certain way? So why get in the way of it? Unless of course one of them was vehemently opposed to it as well, then I could understand fighting it. I liken it to opposing a Hindu ceremony because it's not what you believe. If the male and female are aware of their rights as human beings, but choose to live a certain way in which they are maybe more submissive than some of us would personally prefer, but it's not hurting anyone, why oppose it?
Posted by lauralaur[/QUOTE]
They got married in the middle-east. They didn't choose the reading, the priest of the Orthodox Coptic Christian Church did. We didn't need to convince my brother, we tried to convince the priest, since no one in my family would have picked this reading, and 90% of the guests didn't understand English, anyway.
Nose Job Blog
planning
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you plan to submit to your husband? : They got married in the middle-east. They didn't choose the reading, the priest of the Orthodox Coptic Christian Church did. We didn't need to convince my brother, we tried to convince the priest, since no one in my family would have picked this reading, and 90% of the guests didn't understand English, anyway.
Posted by KentuckyKate[/QUOTE]
Ah gotcha.
[QUOTE Based on that I think that if women are to submit to their husbands is obeying God - we got the better end of the deal.
Posted by jillross[/QUOTE]
Because obviously a wife who doesn't "submit" to their husband gets treated like shiit? You don't have to be religious to treat each other with respect and go through hell for one another.
I will admit, my experience with people who take the Bible to heart has not been a good one. I have been on the receiving end of several death threats for being a "heathen" and one of my friends was severely beaten by her father for not submitting to her husband in the way they had deemed "proper".
If it works for you great, and if you take the passage to mean an equal relationship even better, but understand that there are some crazies out there and they are normally the ones who create our view of the phrase "wife submits to the husband."
House / Baby blog