Do you plan to submit to your husband?

mica178 · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_plan-submit-husband?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:17043469-eda0-4344-913c-cd142c6656c6Post:c02e1c19-5360-49a0-a3c3-6c711ba24ac6">Re: Do you plan to submit to your husband?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you plan to submit to your husband? : Yes but God is outside of time right? He is all-powerful and all-knowing. And HIS WORD should stand for all time right? I do not believe that "God's word" should be influenced by historical context. If it is influenced, than it is not God's word and then how can we judge what God actualy intended to tel us and what was just part of historical context or human error? Do we just get to pick the passages that we agree with? perhaps God actually wanted to say, "Don't worry about me. Just be good people. Be nice to each other."
Posted by t.kaufman[/QUOTE]

I still don't understand why you're so literal and can't see that maybe God wants us to study the Bible and ponder its meaning rather than take it at face value. God's word was written by humans who were limited by language and their mere mortality.

Try this for understanding the point of the Bible and also the original passage with which you took so much issue:
<blockquote> One of the Pharisees, a scholar of the law, tested Jesus by asking, “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” He said to him, “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.” </blockquote>

t.kaufman · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_plan-submit-husband?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:17043469-eda0-4344-913c-cd142c6656c6Post:672800ce-2a6b-404f-9dd6-5ab7bd1467e9">Re: Do you plan to submit to your husband?</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm late to the party on this one, but I thought I'd throw this out there anyway. I'm a Classics major, and my Ancient Greek class currently reading the New Testament. Since this passage is often controversial, we read it. The word translated as submit literally means "to be placed behind." The sense of the passage is that, in Christ, we place others before ourselves, i.e. the Golden Rule and selflessness. I think what Paul is saying here is that, in the same way Christians place themselves and their needs behind the needs of others and behind the worship of Christ, wives should place their husbands needs first in the marriage. The part about "Husbands, love your wives" suggests the exact same idea in a parallel syntax, albeit with different vocabulary. (In fact, in the Greek the man is given the stronger command than the woman.) If you read it this way, the meaning of the passage is totally different (or it is in my opinion.) I also want to bring up the well-documented fact that translators tend to insert their own ideas into the original author's work when trying to provide a translation. It would thus make sense that the old misogynistic monks who made the first English translations would provide an interpretation of women needing to be passive and submissive to their husbands. For the record, I am a Christian, but I do not attend a Christian university. Feel free to call me out on my biases; I know I have them! I did try to read this as impartially as possible though.
Posted by lil_miss_latinist[/QUOTE]

This is helpful and very interesting! However, I still believe that "God's Word" should not be left to translator error [God should have had a hand in that if he actully wants peope to believe anything that's in there!]. Also, in my world, men and women should be givent he same exact commands. no difference.

t.kaufman · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_plan-submit-husband?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:17043469-eda0-4344-913c-cd142c6656c6Post:642c310c-fee7-4eb4-88ed-8d9a286530ad">Re: Do you plan to submit to your husband?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you plan to submit to your husband? : If this is what you believe about God's Word (which is also what I and many Christians believe) why are you judging us for following the commands of our Creator?
Posted by fpaemp2011[/QUOTE]

Did you read all the posts leading up to this? I take huge issue with women being told to submit to a man's will [even if he is commanded to love her and die for her]. I think this makes women second-class citizens. Others on here were telling me not to take the pasage literally and that God actualy wants women and men to hve an equal partnership. They said that these verses were influenced by the historical time in which they were written and by translations. But I don't think if it was actually god's word, that it should be influenced by anything or anyone other than god. Thus, it is either not god's word or it is god's word, and I strongly whole-heartedly am opposed to what it says.

t.kaufman · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_plan-submit-husband?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:17043469-eda0-4344-913c-cd142c6656c6Post:39e5ca9e-d950-4311-b1e1-3d0f3ec96375">Re: Do you plan to submit to your husband?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you plan to submit to your husband? : I still don't understand why you're so literal and can't see that maybe God wants us to study the Bible and ponder its meaning rather than take it at face value. God's word was written by humans who were limited by language and their mere mortality. Try this for understanding the point of the Bible and also the original passage with which you took so much issue: One of the Pharisees, a scholar of the law, tested Jesus by asking, “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” He said to him, “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”
Posted by mica178[/QUOTE]

I like those verses. Let me just say that I like your take on the whole thing much more than people who would actually follow these things literally... I just enjoy debating it. :) But think of it this way. Surely God must know that there are people like me out there who will be completely turned off by some of the things in the bible such as the verses we originally began discussing. And with something as big as eternal damnation or salvation at hand, why would he not have a better book created to clear the air of such misunderstandings?

fpaemp2011 · June 2010

[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you plan to submit to your husband? : Did you read all the posts leading up to this? I take huge issue with women being told to submit to a man's will [even if he is commanded to love her and die for her]. I think this makes women second-class citizens. Others on here were telling me not to take the pasage literally and that God actualy wants women and men to hve an equal partnership. They said that these verses were influenced by the historical time in which they were written and by translations. But I don't think if it was actually god's word, that it should be influenced by anything or anyone other than god. Thus, it is either not god's word or it is god's word, and I strongly whole-heartedly am opposed to what it says.
Posted by t.kaufman[/QUOTE]

I did read all of the posts. I'm sorry that you take issue with our beliefs, but that's the beauty of America. We have the right to practice our beliefs, as do you. I was taught that the Bible was written by the hands of men, but that God told them what to write, so everything in the Bible is God's word. Sometimes in Paul's letters he inserts his own comments, but he prefaces them with, "This is me speaking, not God." When it comes to translations, we have the original Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek texts, scholars who have studied those languages, and we believe they have translated them accurately. Men and women do have different roles in marriage, but neither is more important than the other. We were taught to compare it to an operating room. Everyone in that room is highly educated, but they all have different roles. Without the anetheisologist or the nurses, the surgeons could not perform the operation. Their roles are not exactly the same, and neither is more important than other, but without the other, the surgery cannont be done. FIs role as my husband will be the spiritual leader of our home, and he will lead our family to follow God's will for us. My role as his wife will be his helpmate, to pray for him and suppport his leadership, and to raise and teach our children if we are blessed with them naturally or adopt them. We don't know why God created men and women differently, and I don't think we'll ever understand it. But that's where our faith comes in that following God's commands for us will help us in our walk with Him. It's just what we're called to do as believers.

lil_miss_latinist · June 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_plan-submit-husband?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:17043469-eda0-4344-913c-cd142c6656c6Post:b5297319-39c7-46a3-ad30-c309ee374d2a">Re: Do you plan to submit to your husband?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you plan to submit to your husband? : This is helpful and very interesting! However, I still believe that "God's Word" should not be left to translator error [God should have had a hand in that if he actully wants peope to believe anything that's in there!]. Also, in my world, men and women should be givent he same exact commands. no difference.
Posted by t.kaufman[/QUOTE]

Totally agree with this! I chose to learn these languages in part so that I can read the Scriptures in their original context, and it's totally changed my ideas about my faith. However, learning to read Ancient Greek is not easy; I've been doing it for a while, and I still struggle with it. I of course think it would be great if everyone learned the Classical langages; however, I know that's not at all realistic.

The best we can do, IMHO, is to educate people on the inherent flaws in translations, and to offer up alternate translations that might better express the author's original intent. Christians should also remember that the Bible was not written by God, but inspired by God; Paul was as much a translator (if not more so) of God's original Word as those old monks were of Paul's writing, and thus his ideas--including the general sexism of his time--got mixed in there too. Reading Scripture is not the only way one should try to know God, if that is your goal; praying and listening is just as, if not more, important!

I'll get off my soapbox/pulpit now. <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" />

jessjo04 · June 2010

I'm not even going to try to read all the responses, because I'll just get annoyed, so forgive if this has been said...

A husband is to love his wife as Jesus loves His church. In my wedding we used a passage similar to the "wives submit to your husbands", at my request. DH and I are very religious, Methodist (although I grew up in both Metiodist and Catholic churches), and we see this as a way of showing mutual respect, not dominating one another. No, religious people are not "stupid" or "wrong". The basis of Christianity (in addition to accepting Jesus and God as my personal savior) is to love and respect everyone. Maybe thats why the non religious ones are being disrespectful, and ignorant, of religion and people who follow a religion.

In this post I must also thank the person who made this KPS, because they have said it much more elegantly than I can.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_l3mbbl4SUr1qbfb8no1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1277342755&Signature=N92uTgWNmtakBmsD2TWNnPHThqk%3D

jemali_2003 · June 2010

http://media.theknot.com/pluck/tk/imgQuote.gif'); background-repeat: no-repeat; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: #ebf4fb; border-width: initial">I am having a Catholic ceremony and there are so many readings that talk about "submitting to your husband" or the man is the head of the house and you must obey his orders. Not cool!
Posted by jemali_2003

Do you have to have those readings done for your ceremony or do they let you pick what you want??You do not have to use those readings. There are different ones to choose from and thankfully there are some that does not have anything like this.

Do you plan to submit to your husband?

Re: Do you plan to submit to your husband?

Choose Another Board

Search Boards