Snarky Brides

Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate

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Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate

  • CellesCelles member
    2500 Comments Combo Breaker
    edited March 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:5874ab54-1317-42df-ae92-157dfa804bd8">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : No, but they are advocating that as an option for women to have, correct?
    Posted by NicoleSahara[/QUOTE]

    Did you even read the article that AATB linked?

    Questionable references to cows and pigs notwithstanding, this is the crux of the issue:  "State Rep. Terry England was speaking in favor of <strong>HB 954</strong>, which makes it illegal to obtain an abortion after 20 weeks <strong>even if the woman is known to be carrying a stillborn fetus or the baby is otherwise not expected to live to term</strong>."
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  • edited March 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:5874ab54-1317-42df-ae92-157dfa804bd8">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : No, but they are advocating that as an option for women to have, correct?
    Posted by NicoleSahara[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>I for one am advocating that as an option for women. I would most likely never do it myself (never say never of course) but my opinions on what is right or wrong in this situation have no bearing on other women. They can form their own opinions and I will respect those opinions. 

    </div><div>ETA: Key word OPTION. I'm not going to tell anyone it's an awesome idea FFS.</div>
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  • edited March 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:024e0f51-8bf4-48ce-b9e1-db32875d037b">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : Did you even read the article that AATB linked?
    Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

    Yes Celles, that is not what I'm talking about right now though.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:5874ab54-1317-42df-ae92-157dfa804bd8">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : No, but they are advocating that as an option for women to have, correct?
    Posted by NicoleSahara[/QUOTE]

    Even if that's the case, it's not the same thing. Just because it's legal, doesn't mean people are going to do it. Chances are far, far more likely that a woman who becomes pregnant and is planning on aborting isn't going to wait 7 months to do it.
  • Actually, who's advocating for 30 week along pregnancies to be aborted?  No one.  The fetus is viable at that point.  No Ob/Gyn would agree to terminate, they'd encourage the woman to induce and give up the baby for adoption at that point since the procedure for abortion at that point would be just as traumatic as delivering a baby.
  • Just out of curiosity.. anyone who is okay with elective abortions if the fetus has a terminal illness (basically along the lines of this bill), are you guys also for elective euthanasia/assisted suicide (for example if a person is dying a slow an dpainful death having the option to end their own life with the help of their doctor)?
  • AnysunriseAnysunrise member
    5000 Comments Combo Breaker
    edited March 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:674fa4c7-c7d2-4d80-a28e-6c660110d5ee">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]Just out of curiosity.. anyone who is okay with elective abortions if the fetus has a terminal illness (basically along the lines of this bill), are you guys also for elective euthanasia/assisted suicide (for example if a person is dying a slow an dpainful death having the option to end their own life with the help of their doctor)?
    Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

    Personally, yes.
  • I completely agree with Anna. I don't walk around high-fiving women who have had abortions, which is often what pro-life proponents make it sound like. I support a choice, whatever that choice is.

    I like Anna, highly doubt I would ever have an abortion. I almost said "never" but I really can't say that because if I was pregnant with a child like Haleigh, I probably would have an abortion.


  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:674fa4c7-c7d2-4d80-a28e-6c660110d5ee">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]Just out of curiosity.. anyone who is okay with elective abortions if the fetus has a terminal illness (basically along the lines of this bill), are you guys also for elective euthanasia/assisted suicide (for example if a person is dying a slow an dpainful death having the option to end their own life with the help of their doctor)?
    Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

    Yes.
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  • edited March 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:674fa4c7-c7d2-4d80-a28e-6c660110d5ee">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]Just out of curiosity.. anyone who is okay with elective abortions if the fetus has a terminal illness (basically along the lines of this bill), are you guys also for elective euthanasia/assisted suicide (for example if a person is dying a slow an dpainful death having the option to end their own life with the help of their doctor)?
    Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]

    If the person makes that choice yeah I'm fine with it.

    This might be kind of an unpop op but I really think in regard to preventing prolonged suffering, we are far more humane to animals than we are to people.  I'm not saying we need to go around killing people but we do put down our pets when it's miserable for them to continue living.  If a person does not want to live anymore, that's their choice.
    panther
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:55d7223e-c36c-4086-965f-b8e9620880e2">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : Personally, yes.
    Posted by Anysunrise[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>Ditto. 

    </div>
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:674fa4c7-c7d2-4d80-a28e-6c660110d5ee">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]Just out of curiosity.. anyone who is okay with elective abortions if the fetus has a terminal illness (basically along the lines of this bill), <strong>are you guys also for elective euthanasia/assisted suicide (for example if a person is dying a slow an dpainful death having the option to end their own life with the help of their doctor)?</strong>
    Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>Absolutely. I have a genetic disorder that will probably kill me. 20-40% of people that have the disorder die prematurely or become permanently disabled. I've watched too many other people die slow, agonizing, painful deaths from HHT. It will not be me. I cannot express to you how strongly I believe in assisted suicide. 

    </div>
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:55d7223e-c36c-4086-965f-b8e9620880e2">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : Personally, yes.
    Posted by Anysunrise[/QUOTE]



    Same
    imageBabyFruit Ticker
  • If you're unsure of doctor assisted suicide you guys should read Michael Schiavo's book, "Terri: The Truth."  His wife was not euthanized but she was taken off of life support after being a vegetable for 15 years.  Sometimes doing every single thing you can to keep someone alive is not in their best interest.
    panther
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:ad995eaa-dcd2-429c-9770-b4fdc980ea34">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : Not to mention, the whole premise of the abortion argument is whether or not the fetus has rights.  But if someone decides to end their own life, no one's rights are being violated. The person making the decision is the one losing their life.  
    Posted by djhar[/QUOTE]

    Yep. I'm okay with physician assisted suicide actually. I don't think I could ever do it to myself, but I'm good with people having that option.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:ad995eaa-dcd2-429c-9770-b4fdc980ea34">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : Not to mention, the whole premise of the abortion argument is whether or not the fetus has rights.  But if someone decides to end their own life, no one's rights are being violated. The person making the decision is the one losing their life.  
    Posted by djhar[/QUOTE]



    Haleigh wouldn't have been able to make that choice however she was suffering. I think the mother has the right to make the choice for the fetus if the fetus cannot speak for itself.
    imageBabyFruit Ticker
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:024e0f51-8bf4-48ce-b9e1-db32875d037b">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : Did you even read the article that AATB linked? Questionable references to cows and pigs notwithstanding, this is the crux of the issue:  "State Rep. Terry England was speaking in favor of HB 954 , which makes it illegal to obtain an abortion after 20 weeks even if the woman is known to be carrying a stillborn fetus or the baby is otherwise not expected to live to term ."
    Posted by Celles[/QUOTE]

    Did you even read this thread and the comments about that? It's not an abortion if the baby is stillborn so no one is saying she'd have to keep that inside her for the full term. That's not what the bill says, that's the writer's comments on the bill. As far as the second part we've discussed different angles of that at length.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:6e7bb7ab-10f9-40ab-bb3c-7bc4f439b7de">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : Advocating abortion as an option for women to have, when?  When, I think, is a very real question here.  Do I have a problem with a pregnant women deciding to terminate her pregnancy within the set legal deadlines?  Nope.  I do, however, have a problem with any legislature making the decision that after 20 weeks, I cannot have an abortion for any reason, perhaps with the exception to save the life of the mother.  That interferes with a doctor's ability to provide the best advice to his patient if something like Haleigh's case comes along. 
    Posted by Holly4212011[/QUOTE]

    This is a good point.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:a3c3d0b5-59d2-4ef7-98ad-a02df18d379f">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : Did you even read this thread and the comments about that? It's not an abortion if the baby is stillborn so no one is saying she'd have to keep that inside her for the full term. That's not what the bill says, that's the writer's comments on the bill. As far as the second part we've discussed different angles of that at length.
    Posted by NicoleSahara[/QUOTE]

    Yes, I did.  Thanks.  It seemed to me that everyone else was discussing whether a woman should be allowed to abort her late-term pregnancy if her doctor deemed the fetus incompatible with life (<em>a la</em> the heartbreaking stories that Steph posted)... while you were off in left field, singing to the daisies.  
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  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:d4d7aaf1-bda6-4fb9-a1fa-c7c65b507fa2">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : Yes Celles, that is not what I'm talking about right now though.
    Posted by NicoleSahara[/QUOTE]



    uh, that's what we're all talking about.

    As for my personal beliefs... I think at 30 weeks the fetus is viable outside the mother, so abortion should not be allowed. Like Mica said, you might as well just deliver at that point.

    And I 100% support euthenasia. Why the fvck wouldn't you? You now want the government to force my prolonged suffering? For godssake, let me be in charge of my own body/life already.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:213524d7-098f-4db8-a9e0-d6e4cd58edad">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : uh, that's what we're all talking about. As for my personal beliefs... I think at 30 weeks the fetus is viable outside the mother, so abortion should not be allowed. Like Mica said, you might as well just deliver at that point. And I 100% support euthenasia. Why the fvck wouldn't you? You now want the government to force my prolonged suffering? For godssake, let me be in charge of my own body/life already.
    Posted by Steph+J[/QUOTE]

    Since she had quoted me saying there were people that advocated the option of abortion of a healthy fetus at 30 weeks by asking if I even read the article, it seems she thought I was saying that's what the bill was supporting, I was saying that I wasn't talking about that bill by saying that.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:213524d7-098f-4db8-a9e0-d6e4cd58edad">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate : uh, that's what we're all talking about. As for my personal beliefs... I think at 30 weeks the fetus is viable outside the mother, so abortion should not be allowed. Like Mica said, you might as well just deliver at that point. And I 100% support euthenasia. Why the fvck wouldn't you? You now want the government to force my prolonged suffering? For godssake, let me be in charge of my own body/life already.
    Posted by Steph+J[/QUOTE]
    The only issue that I have with euthanasia is that technically, it'd be homicide, assuming that the person needs to be assisted with their suicide.  This is only an issue in theory, for me.  I fully support the right for everyone to end their lives wheneverthefuck they want to.<div>
    </div><div>The logistical problems with deciding under duress, etc., that would arise, would all need to be worked out.</div>
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    "Smash's balls are the biggest balls of them all." -AATB

  • This whole thing is bizarre.  First off, let me apologize for whatever d-bag here in Georgia thought that comparing women to livestock was a good idea.  We aren't all dumbasses.

    Next I agree with several of the PP's comments about how the "law" shouldn't stick their noses in medical business.  Sure, I think there should be rules and regulations on certain things but when its a decision like this one the people making the decisions are the patients and the doctors.  Not state legislatures.

    (And on a little side soap box....)

    This goes back to the whole problem I have with insurance companies,  they're sort of like politicians, they want to sit in their big offices and say "nah, I don't think that drug should be covered" or "nah, I don't think they need that surgery, lets make them go thru hell for an additional year so maybe they'll die before we have to pay for surgery"  I think this too should be put back in doctors hands.
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  • Chels, let me clear things up. I don't think your beliefs are stupid. Everyone can have their own opinions and that's fine. But the idea that the pro-life agenda is actually creating rights for anyone is bullshiit. Pro-life purpose is to say no to abortion and likely make it illegal, right? So you are taking rights away from the mother in that case. You aren't giving rights to the unborn fetus. You cannot give rights to something that is not deemed a viable life, in the eyes of the law. And that's what is important here--the law says abortion is legal.
  • To be fair, I think a lot of what Chels says is stupid... but I can understand where she's coming from on this one.  The pro-life side is trying to assign rights to the fetus that it doesn't currenly have (and shouldn't have, IMO).

    The problem is that it's a zero-sum game.  You can't give rights to the fetus without taking rights away from the mother.  And since the mother is a legally-defined person with a certain inalienable rights and the fetus is not, the mother wins.  And should win.  And will win, unless and until the pro-life wackadoodles have their way and the government decides that it is better equipped to make decisions about women's health than actual women -- which I sincerely hope never happens.
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  • edited March 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_well-this-is-an-interesting-component-to-an-abortion-debate?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:aab9ae6e-9b71-4637-ba4e-34921731048cPost:fd07ac3d-4d1c-4f81-bef6-f8c348ac0b2f">Re: Well, this is an interesting component to an abortion debate</a>:
    [QUOTE]I want to know why there is such a huge hubbub over women's reproductive organs and rights yet no one gives a rats ass about diicks and sperm. I want people to start making laws about what men can and can't do with their jizz.
    Posted by maratea[/QUOTE]



    I only read to this point, so this may have already been said. In some states that are legislating the crap put of abortion rights and bc stuff, some lawmakers have proposed additions to the laws that include men. In one state (I can't remember which one), some lawmakers wanted to make men seeking ED medication undergo prostate exams before being able to receive the prescription. Another state wanted to make ejaculation that can't be used to reproduction (I.e. masturbation) illegal.

    ETA: this was already mentioned.
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