Calling all Jews

MommyMarta08 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:385472a0-4aba-43ea-a58e-83a1d22afb7d">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm Jewish, not remotely religious, don't attend services, and rarely actually fast on Yom Kippur -- and I still wouldn't attend your wedding if it was on Yom Kippur, even if it was after breaking of the fast. I will be spending that evening with my family as I always do. Even though I'm not religious, Yom Kippur is the holiest day of the Jewish year. If you were not Jewish and didn't know any Jewish people, I would think you were simply ignorant, but realize it wasn't a factor for you so whatever. But since you have Jewish family and apparently several Jewish friends, I think it's ignorant and disrespectful. As a guest, I'd send my decline. BTW, your situation really doesn't sound all that complicated. You don't like your grandmother and don't care if she's there. I guess that's your perogative. But all the excuses are really lame.
Posted by tenofcups4me[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>I love my grandma but am not really close to her. I wish she could be there but can't change my whole wedding and lose all my deposits. I can't afford it. I always thing of the holidays as being in September. I just didn't realize and what is done is done. Its not like I looked at the calendar and was like "Whatever, I don't care." </div><div>
</div><div>My Jewish friends are all still coming and are very excited for the wedding. They know I didn't do it on purpose and how much time I went into planning every detail for my wedding. They don't want me to change the date and lose my vendors, deposits and plans. I am glad I'm not friends with people like you.

</div>

Calypso1977 · October 2010

i'm a pretty devout catholic, and provided it didnt interfere with my relgious services, id still attend someone's wedding (possibly just the ceremony) on good friday or easter. if it did interfere, then i wouldnt attend, and i know the bride and groom would undrestand why.

tenofcups4me · October 2010

In Response to Re: Calling all Jews:
[QUOTEI am glad I'm not friends with people like you.
Posted by MommyMarta08[/QUOTE]

Oh honey, it's mutual. I'm glad I'm not friends with someone who shows so much disrespect for her friends' and family's cultural and religious traditions.

Do you even have a clue what Yom Kippur involves? It's not simply fasting. Even for most Jews who don't go to services, the day is one of contemplation, where you're literally not supposed to do anything else. I'm VERY surprised that your friends are agreeing to spend that day in preparation for your wedding even if the actual food part doesn't start till after sundown.

And again, I'm really not even remotely religious so I can't imagine how someone who is religious would feel. Your wedding is almost a year away -- I really find it hard to believe everything is that locked in.

Nebb · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:ba4f4351-fa86-45d7-8add-558a7bbd23e5">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]i just dont think she shoudl change her date to accomodate one person...one person that she seems to have very little of a relationship with.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Accomodate that one person AND lose thousands of dollars. So she should have checked a calendar, sure, but thats somewhat moot now.

Calypso1977 · October 2010

cups, its a day of atonement, right?

Calypso1977 · October 2010

also, what if the date change causes others to have to miss her wedding? others that have already set aside the date, etc. $20 says the grandma wouldtn come no matter what the date is - they just arent close.

bellebride116 · October 2010

I would change your date.

saisongbird · October 2010

I have to say that as a Jewish person, I would be incredibly offended if one of my dearest friends (who seems to be in your wedding) was asked to attend a wedding on Yom Kippur. It is a day of atonement in our religion, NOT a day for celebration. The fact that you're asking them to skip services to attend your rehearsal is incredibly selfish. I would have said no. I understand that deposits have been made but your date is far enough away that you can move it and not lose the money.

It's not only about your grandmother, it's about being respectful to your friends who celebrate that religion. Sure, they said that they'd skip services but a good friend wouldn't even CONSIDER asking them to do so. And do you really think they're going to be in a good mood to celebrate with you when they're light-headed and on an empty stomach? Yom Kippur is not only no food, it's not even a drop of water. It's a long day, and it's difficult to get through without a nap, which is simply NOT POSSIBLE TO DO on a wedding day when you're running around, getting your hair done and having pictures taken. Be the better person, and move the date. And I have to tell you, it's taking all of my self-control to not use words or phrases that shouldn't be used, because just READING about your situation and how SELFISH you are being is making me so angry.

Calypso1977 · October 2010

i dont think the friends are in the wedding.... are they? therefore, no need to come to the RD, or have hair, pics, etc. done.

ARod22 · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:ba4f4351-fa86-45d7-8add-558a7bbd23e5">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]i just dont think she shoudl change her date to accomodate one person...one person that she seems to have very little of a relationship with.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

Warning: I'm extremely biased.

OP should change her date not just because her grandma can't come, but because she herself has a Jewish heritage and it is outright disrespectful to herself, her family, her culture, and her heritage to hold a wedding on Yom Kippur. I don't care how religious or not she is, or if she even is having a Jewish wedding or not (obviously she isn't).

Please change your date to something acceptable.

Nebb · October 2010

How is the fact that she would be out THOUSANDS of dollars not registering with anyone. Everyone needs to get their indignant panties out of a bunch and think practically for a second. No one is obligated to attend, her friends are choosing to - they made that decision themselves.

Wrkn925 · October 2010

I wouldn't change it for a relative that I was not close with and be out all that money.
As for the friends that will be observing, they have the option of not attending if they are offended, uncomfortable or physically not up to it after fasting.
You can't please everyone with your date.

sister2groom · October 2010

I agree you should probably apologize to your grandmother because it was pretty thoughtless not to consider the fact that you might interfere with religious holidays. However, I assume you mentioned this date to your parents so if they didn't even think of relgious holiday interference, I think that's an indication Jewish holidays really aren't very important to your family.

smokeybailey · October 2010

I had to laugh a little OP. I am starting my planning now and I have crossed out all holidays, anniversaries, birthdays and home UCLA or USC game days. Yes, I looked at even that to make sure there isn't an issue. To know that your grandmother is Jewish and not to just take a cursory look at ANY calendar, is rude and, well, dumb.

It's not hard to take two minutes and consider your guests.

smokeybailey · October 2010

Oh, and to answer your question, if you don't care about your grandma's attendance or putting your pals out at all, keep the date.

MommyMarta08 · October 2010

Wow didnt expect so many responses, especially after I made up my mind... anyway, my jewish friends are not in the wedding party. Everyone is invited to my rehearsal dinner since it's an out of town wedding, but they don''t have to come. Just in case, I moved it to be before sunset. I didn't ask them to choose my wedding over their holiday. They still have the right to decline (of course) but they've told me they will still attend.

I honestly thought Yom Kippur was always in September. I didn't realize it could be in October. My father never taught me about the religion, so I was ignorant on that fact. I don't feel bad that I didn't check the calendar. I didn't know and it was an honest mistake. Mistakes happen and I invested a lot of money so far into this wedding. Also, it's not only me I have to think about. My fiance also has his hear set on our date and vendors. If I wanted to change it, of course he would oblige but I don't think I should have to change everything, lose a lot of money, etc because my distant grandma can't come now.

Of course, I apologized profusely. That is all I can do and I am moving on and enjoying my planning. I need to let some things go.

smokeybailey · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:540b4111-4ea6-46f7-bd36-c2ea1586e2dd">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]Wow didnt expect so many responses, especially after I made up my mind... anyway, my jewish friends are not in the wedding party. Everyone is invited to my rehearsal dinner since it's an out of town wedding, but they don''t have to come. Just in case, I moved it to be before sunset. I didn't ask them to choose my wedding over their holiday. They still have the right to decline (of course) but they've told me they will still attend. I honestly thought Yom Kippur was always in September. I didn't realize it could be in October. My father never taught me about the religion, so I was ignorant on that fact.<strong> I don't feel bad that I didn't check the calendar. </strong>I didn't know and it was an honest mistake. Mistakes happen and I invested a lot of money so far into this wedding. Also, it's not only me I have to think about. My fiance also has his hear set on our date and vendors. If I wanted to change it, of course he would oblige but I don't think I should have to change everything, lose a lot of money, etc because my distant grandma can't come now. Of course, I apologized profusely. That is all I can do and I am moving on and enjoying my planning. I need to let some things go.
Posted by MommyMarta08[/QUOTE]

Okay, let me get this straight, you didn't check a calendar but just knew that October 8th was a Saturday? How? It NEVER occurred to you to see if there was anything going on that weekend? That weekend is part of a Columbus Day 3-day weekend for some AND a part of the 3-day Canadian Thanksgiving weekend as well. I got that all by looking at a calendar. Just a plain ol' calendar.

If you are moving on, why did you post the whole, what do I do?! here?

KentuckyKate · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:8dc370e3-4f6e-4a33-9ab9-3c3965f86f59">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Calling all Jews : Okay, let me get this straight, you didn't check a calendar but just knew that October 8th was a Saturday? How? It NEVER occurred to you to see if there was anything going on that weekend? <strong>That weekend is part of a Columbus Day 3-day weekend for some AND a part of the 3-day Canadian Thanksgiving weekend as well. I got that all by looking at a calendar. Just a plain ol' calendar.</strong> If you are moving on, why did you post the whole, what do I do?! here?
Posted by smokeybailey[/QUOTE]
I got those on my calendar too, and also Health and Sports day in Japan and National Children's Day. Suck it, Smokey's calendar!

MommyMarta08 · October 2010

Yes, I obviously looked at A calendar- but it didn't have Yom Kippur on it. I saw it was Columbus Day and that's it. I don't feel bad that I didn't specifically seek out a calendar to check for other holidays because I didn't think there were any.

I posted and then agreed with a PP that said it sounded like I made up my mind. She was right- I did. So, I thanked everyone for their advice like 2 hrs ago.

THANK YOU

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:ba4f4351-fa86-45d7-8add-558a7bbd23e5">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]i just dont think she shoudl change her date to accomodate one person...one person that she seems to have very little of a relationship with.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

<div>It's not about one person, it's about an entire religion and culture. Like Ten said, if she seriously wasn't inviting any Jewish people to her wedding, well, that's one thing. But it looks like she's inviting at LEAST 6. </div>

KatyRoseM · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:b450a080-e882-4b5c-82c2-00a21cc4f278">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Calling all Jews : I don't know my dad's family. He has a brother and sister who are invited but I already know arent coming (not because of the holiday). My dad didn't even know my wedding was on Yom Kippur and he is the Jewish parent. My wedding party is not affected. I said 5 close girlfriends- not my bridal party. They don't go to service every year. <strong>One of them was in Argentina this year for Yom Kippur.</strong>The only one effected by services is my grandma and I explained above why I am hesitant about changing everythign for her. PP was right- after writing all this, I did make up my mind. I guess I didn't need advice, but thank you for all of your opinions. I would agree with all of you if I didn't know the back story that only I or my family could.
Posted by MommyMarta08[/QUOTE]

This does not mean she didn't observe it or go to services.

squirrly · October 2010

If I were the OP, I'd change the date because i'd want my grandmother to be able to attend. If her relationship with grandma isn't enough for her to be bothered, then. . . that's really up to her. But, if the OP doesn't identify as Jewish and nobody in her family who IS Jewish complained about the date when she first set it, I don't really see how it's disrespectful to a whole religion for her to have a wedding on Yom Kippur. She's not demanding that anyone attend.
It's like suggesting that a wedding in Great Britian is offensive to the whole United States if it's scheduled on July 4th. Any American guests might decline, but still. She didn't berate any Jewish guests for their beliefs or anything of the sort, and she did make some effort to move the wedding, but was unsuccessful without great additional cost.

I mean, if somebody was Jewish and inviting all Jewish people to their wedding and they scheduled it on Christmas Eve, I wouldn't be offended. I'd be disappointed that I couldn't attend, and send my regrets, but I wouldn't find her wedding date OFFENSIVE.

KatyRoseM · October 2010

Christmas Eve is not the single holiest day in the Christian year, and I know Christians who got married on that date, so its not a good comparison. There could not be a Jewish wedding on Yom Kipur, it would not be possible.

I'm not saying its horribly rude to have a wedding on this holiday, I just don't think thats a reasonable comparison.

If she really doesn't care about her grandma, or her friends attending then I don't see how its rude. Its not offensive to her own culture, she has left that part of her behind. Its not offensive to people who are not invited, thats just crazy. Its not offensive to random guests, sometimes religion interferes with other things. I do find her attitude about her grandma odd, but thats just me and I'm sure there are things we don't know (its probably not just she didn't take time to see me). I also do find this a bit offensive, but she clearly does not care about this grandmother, and I would bet that is more what she is offended by.

tenofcups4me · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:445d8b9d-8bcd-4993-b5a5-ad922fab52db">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE] But, if the OP doesn't identify as Jewish and nobody in her family who IS Jewish complained about the date when she first set it, I don't really see how it's disrespectful to a whole religion for her to have a wedding on Yom Kippur. She's not demanding that anyone attend. Posted by squirrly[/QUOTE]

I agree. I don't think it's offensive or disrespectful to Jews in general; I think it is disrespectful to and inconsiderate of her own family member and the Jewish people who she says are such good friends.

I wouldn't, for example, plan a wedding or a major party on Easter Sunday if I had invited several Christian friends who I wanted to come. It's inconsiderate and poor planning, whether they choose to come or not.

The OP clearly doesn't care if her grandmother comes, which is her perogative. But it seems like she posted so we could agree her grandmother was in the wrong and a horrible bich for not coming and she's just not going to get that affirmation from most of us.

Rosie109 · October 2010

I think what is most offensive is the fact that OP has already made up her mind yet continues to defend her decision, which was made before she asked for reassurance on here.

That being said, do what you want to do. I mean if you don't think people will be offended and you don't mind not having your grandmother at your wedding just do your thang.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · October 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_calling-jews?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:5fcf0604-0f02-493e-b1f0-9a5de86393b6Post:445d8b9d-8bcd-4993-b5a5-ad922fab52db">Re: Calling all Jews</a>:
[QUOTE]If I were the OP, I'd change the date because i'd want my grandmother to be able to attend. If her relationship with grandma isn't enough for her to be bothered, then. . . that's really up to her. But, if the OP doesn't identify as Jewish and nobody in her family who IS Jewish complained about the date when she first set it, I don't really see how it's disrespectful to a whole religion for her to have a wedding on Yom Kippur. She's not demanding that anyone attend. It's like suggesting that a wedding in Great Britian is offensive to the whole United States if it's scheduled on July 4th. Any American guests might decline, but still. She didn't berate any Jewish guests for their beliefs or anything of the sort, and she did make some effort to move the wedding, but was unsuccessful without great additional cost. I mean, if somebody was Jewish and inviting all Jewish people to their wedding and they scheduled it on Christmas Eve, I wouldn't be offended. I'd be disappointed that I couldn't attend, and send my regrets, but I wouldn't find her wedding date OFFENSIVE.
Posted by squirrly[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Except that it wouldn't be offensive to have a wedding on July 4 or Christmas Eve because those are days of celebration already, not atonement. This is similar to girls who wanted their weddings on 9/11. Say the OP had a grandmother who was affected by 9/11 and was upset the OP chose that day for her wedding.

</div>

squirrly · October 2010

I just don't think it's OFFENSIVE to plan an event on a day that turns out to be a big deal to somebody else. If they can't attend because of it, so be it. But offended? Because somebody who isn't of your religion doesn't observe your religious holidays? Over the line to me.

ETA: I'm not religious at all, but Christmas Eve is a day I spend with my family. It's not a day I'd be willing to go to someone's wedding, because it's a family thing for me, which is how tenofcups described Yom Kippur for herself.

lyndausvi · October 2010

In Response to Re: Calling all Jews:
[QUOTE]I just don't think it's OFFENSIVE to plan an event on a day that turns out to be a big deal to somebody else. If they can't attend because of it, so be it. But offended? Because somebody who isn't of your religion doesn't observe your religious holidays? Over the line to me. ETA: I'm not religious at all, but Christmas Eve is a day I spend with my family. It's not a day I'd be willing to go to someone's wedding, because it's a family thing for me, which is how tenofcups described Yom Kippur for herself.
Posted by squirrly[/QUOTE]

In general I would agree with you, but I think most of us would think grandma is not just 'somebody'. The OP is half-Jewish, and while she might not relate to that part of her heritage I think it's sad she just does not even care to even get to understand the culture and the meaning of Yom Kippur. It's a day atonement, not a day of celebration, so yes I can see why grandma might be offended.

That said, since she clearly does not have a relationship with this grandma and she already made up her mind, so I don't know why she even posted this question.

squirrly · October 2010

Yeah, Lynda, I'd change it for my grandparents, but I have a different relationship than she does. But a lot of the responses were worded like they thought the whole CONCEPT of the wedding on that date is just offensive, no matter what. That's what i don't get.

Oh well. OP's not interested in listening either way.

Moneypenny424 · November 2010

I'm not Jewish, but I made sure my wedding wasn't on one of the high holidays. Especially Yom Kippur, since it is a day of atonement.

It is your choice. Personally, I would change it. I'm not close to my grandmother either, so I understand her not swaying your decision. What WOULD affect my decision is how I would act in the reverse: I wouldn't find it appropriate for me to be drinking and celebrating at a wedding on Good Friday. It is a solemn day. Even my Jewish friends who observe nothing else all year try to attend services and if not, don't go out partying that day.

Are you SURE there are only 5 people affected? You're sure all of your guests and their guests aren't Jewish?

Calling all Jews

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