In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cat-just-attacked-dog?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:f290270d-11b6-4d65-b299-c95c940d5b42Post:5733cf54-a520-410e-b057-9e03da2be759">Re: Our cat just attacked our dog.</a>: [QUOTE]Have you tried the Felliway diffusers yet? I know the ladies over on TN Pets board recommend those to a lot of people. Its worth a shot if you haven't already tried them. <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Farnam-Comfort-Diffuser-Feliway-Milliliters/dp/B000FH708I" rel='nofollow'>http://www.amazon.com/Farnam-Comfort-Diffuser-Feliway-Milliliters/dp/B000FH708I</a> Posted by graceb15[/QUOTE]
<div>I have not - if this girl doesn't call me back, I will order some, for sure.</div><div> </div><div>We tried another brand, but it didn't help. Maybe this will settle him a little bit.</div>
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cat-just-attacked-dog?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:f290270d-11b6-4d65-b299-c95c940d5b42Post:80f7caff-3aff-4fa0-9727-22d11e0bcf1c">Re: Our cat just attacked our dog.</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Our cat just attacked our dog. : I have not - if this girl doesn't call me back, I will order some, for sure. We tried another brand, but it didn't help. Maybe this will settle him a little bit. Posted by cardmonsta[/QUOTE]
I think they take a week or so to work, but I've heard good things about them. Good luck, I hope something works out for you!
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cat-just-attacked-dog?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:f290270d-11b6-4d65-b299-c95c940d5b42Post:9e5a11bc-4552-49f1-b553-e005ff604e64">Re: Our cat just attacked our dog.</a>: [QUOTE]Do you guys not have an SPCA or humane society you could take him too? I'm sad for you, but at least you know you did all you could.. Posted by crash2729[/QUOTE]
<div>Our SPCA is strictly law enforcement and doesn't sponsor a shelter.</div>
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cat-just-attacked-dog?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:f290270d-11b6-4d65-b299-c95c940d5b42Post:5b4d7f9c-d1fb-43a3-a888-9fb55ae566f4">Re: Our cat just attacked our dog.</a>: [QUOTE]Monsta- I've heard good things about the feliway too. I think I missed the part about you moving in the near future. Why can't you take him with you if you move? Maybe you'll get lucky and your new place will have an ideal room for him. Posted by kodakitty[/QUOTE]
<div>We were never planning on taking him when we moved, because he sprays absolutely everything. And he's very unstable, and clearly small changes to his environment damage him greatly. He's very used to my mom's house, and seems to be better over there. So it was a win-win situation, until he attacked our dog. And now she won't take him (we already had the discussion). </div><div> </div><div>If it turns out that our new house DOES have an ideal space for him, I would gladly take him. But that's all up in the air right now.</div><div> </div><div>He's just a great pet, only for me, KWIM? He attacks everyone (he even tried to attack my baby niece). So, with us TTC in the next year, we'd have to find him a new home no matter what.</div><div> </div><div>The origins of this cat are unknown to me - he was gifted to us at a few months old, so I have no idea what happened to him before he got to us. He was fine for a few years living in my mom's house, and I took him when I moved. It was fine until H moved in, and now he's very aggressive toward H. So it was an agreement that he could stay with us now, and then when we moved to our new home, my mother would take him.</div>
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cat-just-attacked-dog?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:f290270d-11b6-4d65-b299-c95c940d5b42Post:bc761068-9de6-43b6-81c2-858a50d25dc8">Re: Our cat just attacked our dog.</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Our cat just attacked our dog. : Our SPCA is strictly law enforcement and doesn't sponsor a shelter. Posted by cardmonsta[/QUOTE]
Well, that's sad... I'm sorry...I'm not a cat person so that was all my useful advice...
Card- why was the cat declawed to begin with? All of the vets I have talked to about this has said that declawing is what actually CAUSES these issues. Declawing is the equivalent of chopping off the top joint of human fingers. It is incredibly painful and takes away a cats natural defenses. As a result- it causes massive emotional trauma to the animal.
I know this isn't helpful to you at this point but I think it could be an issue here...
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cat-just-attacked-dog?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:f290270d-11b6-4d65-b299-c95c940d5b42Post:4a9b6c29-511b-45ee-a230-290cea1c75e8">Re: Our cat just attacked our dog.</a>: [QUOTE]Card- why was the cat declawed to begin with? All of the vets I have talked to about this has said that declawing is what actually CAUSES these issues. Declawing is the equivalent of chopping off the top joint of human fingers. It is incredibly painful and takes away a cats natural defenses. As a result- it causes massive emotional trauma to the animal. I know this isn't helpful to you at this point but I think it could be an issue here... Posted by Starmusica[/QUOTE]
<div>He was declawed in the front when we got him, so I'm not sure. Also, he was fine up until about four or five years ago. I'm not sure if it's the main cause, but I'm sure it can account for some aggression issues.</div><div> </div><div>Here's where we are now: He's attacked the dog again. He attacked me. He attacked another cat.</div><div> </div><div>Right now, after like, an hour and a half of work, I've got him in our basement bathroom, with the door shut. He has a litterbox, food, and water.</div><div> </div><div>I am about to crack.</div>
OMG, CM. That's awful. I know he's been to the vet before, but as a last ditch, what about kitty valium and a very low stimulus environment. I really don't know what to say, other than I really feel for you.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cat-just-attacked-dog?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:17Discussion:f290270d-11b6-4d65-b299-c95c940d5b42Post:1407b752-c5e7-405e-a669-e614bd7421b7">Re: Our cat just attacked our dog.</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Our cat just attacked our dog. : He was declawed in the front when we got him, so I'm not sure. Also, he was fine up until about four or five years ago. I'm not sure if it's the main cause, but I'm sure it can account for some aggression issues. <strong>Here's where we are now: He's attacked the dog again. He attacked me. He attacked another cat</strong>. Right now, after like, an hour and a half of work, I've got him in our basement bathroom, with the door shut. He has a litterbox, food, and water. I am about to crack. Posted by cardmonsta[/QUOTE]
What?! I"m so sorry. The only thing I can suggest is to go (or call) into the vet and see if they have any possible explanations for why so much aggression all at once? It could just be he's getting old...
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cat-just-attacked-dog?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:f290270d-11b6-4d65-b299-c95c940d5b42Post:c6bfbcb0-e918-4604-a081-0614344b8140">Re: Our cat just attacked our dog.</a>: [QUOTE]OMG, CM. That's awful. I know he's been to the vet before, but as a last ditch, what about kitty valium and a very low stimulus environment. I really don't know what to say, other than I really feel for you. Posted by covejack[/QUOTE]
<div>Thanks, Jackie. We've got him in the basement bathroom right now, and we're looking ASAP into emergency fostering at the moment.</div><div> </div><div>Mugh. :(</div>
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cat-just-attacked-dog?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:f290270d-11b6-4d65-b299-c95c940d5b42Post:1407b752-c5e7-405e-a669-e614bd7421b7">Re: Our cat just attacked our dog.</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Our cat just attacked our dog. : He was declawed in the front when we got him, so I'm not sure. Also, he was fine up until about four or five years ago. I'm not sure if it's the main cause, but I'm sure it can account for some aggression issues. Here's where we are now: He's attacked the dog again. He attacked me. He attacked another cat. Right now, after like, an hour and a half of work, I've got him in our basement bathroom, with the door shut. He has a litterbox, food, and water. I am about to crack. Posted by cardmonsta[/QUOTE]
Whoa, like, since you posted he attacked the dog the first time? That's crazy for that amount of aggression in such a small time. Could he have had a...stroke? Or something? Even if he was aggressive before, it seems like there's something crazy happening in his brain today.
I'm really sorry you're dealing with this, though. I'm sure it's very, very hard to see even though you're doing all the right things.
Hey, I'm not sure what part of HV you are from but there is a local cat shelter that is absolutely amazing. She may be able to help you. I'll PM you the name if you would like.
Is your cat declawed? Maybe if the cat doesn't have her nails anymore she won't be so defensive after awhile. Or at least she won't succeed in a fight. Sorry this is happening. I really hope you are able to find a home for him. Do you not have somewhere you can just drop him off like a Human Society?
ETA- Sorry these things were already asked and answered. I'm slow.
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cat-just-attacked-dog?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:f290270d-11b6-4d65-b299-c95c940d5b42Post:c9213510-c359-44ba-b7fc-401b32518400">Re: Our cat just attacked our dog.</a>: [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Our cat just attacked our dog. : Whoa, like, since you posted he attacked the dog the first time? That's crazy for that amount of aggression in such a small time. Could he have had a...stroke? Or something? Even if he was aggressive before, it seems like there's something crazy happening in his brain today. I'm really sorry you're dealing with this, though. I'm sure it's very, very hard to see even though you're doing all the right things. Posted by saxy414[/QUOTE]
<div>I just spoke with his behaviorist and she said it's unlikely to be a neurological problem - but thanks for asking, because I wouldn't have even thought it could be a stroke or anything. I just went in the bathroom to check on him, and he is PISSED right now. She said he's most likely just really unhappy here. Which hurts, I won't lie.</div><div> </div><div>She recommended that I follow through with a new home for him. So.</div><div> </div><div>ETA: I'm seeing that an infection can cause aggression. SO I'm taking him to the vet tomorrow. Then we'll work from there.</div><div> </div><div>Thanks all you guys for offering your advice. <3</div>
Ok, don't think I'm nuts but here's an option too, and it's easy enough to do with a quickly trip to the hardware store. Make a screen door and put it over any door frame in the house to keep in in that room w/o locking him up, stopping airflow, etc. My grandmother used to have one on her bedroom door in our house to keep the cats out of the room w/o closing up the door. Weird that we had a screen door inside? Very, but it worked.
As for the just getting rid of the cat option, consider St. Huberts in Madison. I know they're not 100% no-kill, but they try really really hard to find homes for all the pets. My parents have adopted a couple cats and a dog from them. No kill shelters are hard to come by, I actually thought St. Huberts was until I just looked at her website
I figured you had tried those options I mentioned earlier, I was just trying to think of ideas for you because its obvious you want to do whats best for your kitty.
I hate to tell you this because I know you are stressed and worried as it is, but I think putting him into a foster home or surrendering him to a shelter is not going to make him feel better or help his situation. He is obviously very axious and stressed around people and animals in general.
Love is like infinity: You can't have more or less infinity, and you can't compare two things to see if they're "equally infinite." Infinity just is, and that's the way I think love is, too.
Fred Rogers
In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_snarky-brides_cat-just-attacked-dog?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:17Discussion:f290270d-11b6-4d65-b299-c95c940d5b42Post:5aef81b5-6fc5-46fd-bf8f-bbe3a5927ea5">Re: Our cat just attacked our dog.</a>: [QUOTE]I am so so sorry CM. I figured you had tried those options I mentioned earlier, I was just trying to think of ideas for you because its obvious you want to do whats best for your kitty. <strong>I hate to tell you this because I know you are stressed and worried as it is, but I think putting him into a foster home or surrendering him to a shelter is not going to make him feel better or help his situation. He is obviously very axious and stressed around people and animals in general. Posted by aggiebug[/QUOTE]</strong>
<div>I think that's true. So I don't really know what the best option is, then.</div><div> </div><div>ETA: And I hope you didn't take my responses as being dismissive or anything. I really appreciate you helping me out. :) It's just been a rough night, to say the least.</div>
Our cat loves for me to pet her. She hates for DH to even touch her or look at her yet she'll go sit on his feet. It's really weird. If he lays on the floor she'll go lay next to him but he can't pet her. Part of it may be, and I can't convince him of this - when he goes to pet her he puts he hand towards her face and then over the back of her head, down her back. When I pet my hand comes FROM the back of her head and I gently sit it on the top of her head and pet down her back. I really think she doesn't like things coming at her face. We've had her for 15 years now and he will not listen to me and pet her like I do.
Do you live near Dearborn? The Dearborn Animal Shelter is no-kill and they will take the animal if you live in Dearborn or was found as a stray in Dearborn.
EDIT: I'm sorry I just realized I wasn't posting on the MI board. Maybe google no-kill groups in you area (if you haven't already tried). Sounds like a tough situation- good luck!
CM- definitely didn't think dismissive. and again I thought I was pointing the obvious with my statement.
I may get a lot of flack for it, but euthanasia is not always a terrible idea. I only say this to you because I know you will do anything in your power to make your kitty happy again. If I thought you were just to lazy etc I wouldn't even mention it, but I know that is not you. Just because he is not physically suffering from pain, he is still suffering immensely and none of us want that for our pets. I just don't want you to feel guilty about thinking about it as an option. It is an option, and it could be the best one for him. I can't and wouldn't make that decision, but I would completely understand if it is something you do consider.
Love is like infinity: You can't have more or less infinity, and you can't compare two things to see if they're "equally infinite." Infinity just is, and that's the way I think love is, too.
Fred Rogers
I know you said that you tried Valium and antidepressants but have ou tried them separately or at the same time? At a certain dosage the combination of the 2 would calm Charles Manson. And I have a bit of experience with this - I had a cat that I swear was the reincarnation of a serial killer on crack and we finally hit on the right combo of meds to make him a reasonable pet. Some people may find tha objectionable but I felt it was better than an endless series of shelters or worse.
Edit: You and that - not ou and tha! One day I will learn to type.....
Re: Our cat just attacked our dog.
[QUOTE]Have you tried the Felliway diffusers yet? I know the ladies over on TN Pets board recommend those to a lot of people. Its worth a shot if you haven't already tried them. <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Farnam-Comfort-Diffuser-Feliway-Milliliters/dp/B000FH708I" rel='nofollow'>http://www.amazon.com/Farnam-Comfort-Diffuser-Feliway-Milliliters/dp/B000FH708I</a>
Posted by graceb15[/QUOTE]
<div>I have not - if this girl doesn't call me back, I will order some, for sure.</div><div>
</div><div>We tried another brand, but it didn't help. Maybe this will settle him a little bit.</div>
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Our cat just attacked our dog. : I have not - if this girl doesn't call me back, I will order some, for sure. We tried another brand, but it didn't help. Maybe this will settle him a little bit.
Posted by cardmonsta[/QUOTE]
I think they take a week or so to work, but I've heard good things about them. Good luck, I hope something works out for you!
I would try to do something with the basement. You can buy those cheap accordion doors to use temporarily.
Click here: http://www.accordion-doors.com/sight/woodfold-accordion-doors.html#Text7_Anchor
I think it's worth a try.
I'm sad for you, but at least you know you did all you could..
[QUOTE]Do you guys not have an SPCA or humane society you could take him too? I'm sad for you, but at least you know you did all you could..
Posted by crash2729[/QUOTE]
<div>Our SPCA is strictly law enforcement and doesn't sponsor a shelter.</div>
[QUOTE]Monsta- I've heard good things about the feliway too. I think I missed the part about you moving in the near future. Why can't you take him with you if you move? Maybe you'll get lucky and your new place will have an ideal room for him.
Posted by kodakitty[/QUOTE]
<div>We were never planning on taking him when we moved, because he sprays absolutely everything. And he's very unstable, and clearly small changes to his environment damage him greatly. He's very used to my mom's house, and seems to be better over there. So it was a win-win situation, until he attacked our dog. And now she won't take him (we already had the discussion). </div><div>
</div><div>If it turns out that our new house DOES have an ideal space for him, I would gladly take him. But that's all up in the air right now.</div><div>
</div><div>He's just a great pet, only for me, KWIM? He attacks everyone (he even tried to attack my baby niece). So, with us TTC in the next year, we'd have to find him a new home no matter what.</div><div>
</div><div>The origins of this cat are unknown to me - he was gifted to us at a few months old, so I have no idea what happened to him before he got to us. He was fine for a few years living in my mom's house, and I took him when I moved. It was fine until H moved in, and now he's very aggressive toward H. So it was an agreement that he could stay with us now, and then when we moved to our new home, my mother would take him.</div>
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Our cat just attacked our dog. : Our SPCA is strictly law enforcement and doesn't sponsor a shelter.
Posted by cardmonsta[/QUOTE]
Well, that's sad...
I'm sorry...I'm not a cat person so that was all my useful advice...
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[QUOTE]Card- why was the cat declawed to begin with? All of the vets I have talked to about this has said that declawing is what actually CAUSES these issues. Declawing is the equivalent of chopping off the top joint of human fingers. It is incredibly painful and takes away a cats natural defenses. As a result- it causes massive emotional trauma to the animal. I know this isn't helpful to you at this point but I think it could be an issue here...
Posted by Starmusica[/QUOTE]
<div>He was declawed in the front when we got him, so I'm not sure. Also, he was fine up until about four or five years ago. I'm not sure if it's the main cause, but I'm sure it can account for some aggression issues.</div><div>
</div><div>Here's where we are now: He's attacked the dog again. He attacked me. He attacked another cat.</div><div>
</div><div>Right now, after like, an hour and a half of work, I've got him in our basement bathroom, with the door shut. He has a litterbox, food, and water.</div><div>
</div><div>I am about to crack.</div>
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Our cat just attacked our dog. : He was declawed in the front when we got him, so I'm not sure. Also, he was fine up until about four or five years ago. I'm not sure if it's the main cause, but I'm sure it can account for some aggression issues. <strong>Here's where we are now: He's attacked the dog again. He attacked me. He attacked another cat</strong>. Right now, after like, an hour and a half of work, I've got him in our basement bathroom, with the door shut. He has a litterbox, food, and water. I am about to crack.
Posted by cardmonsta[/QUOTE]
What?!
I"m so sorry. The only thing I can suggest is to go (or call) into the vet and see if they have any possible explanations for why so much aggression all at once?
It could just be he's getting old...
[QUOTE]OMG, CM. That's awful. I know he's been to the vet before, but as a last ditch, what about kitty valium and a very low stimulus environment. I really don't know what to say, other than I really feel for you.
Posted by covejack[/QUOTE]
<div>Thanks, Jackie. We've got him in the basement bathroom right now, and we're looking ASAP into emergency fostering at the moment.</div><div>
</div><div>Mugh. :(</div>
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Our cat just attacked our dog. : He was declawed in the front when we got him, so I'm not sure. Also, he was fine up until about four or five years ago. I'm not sure if it's the main cause, but I'm sure it can account for some aggression issues. Here's where we are now: He's attacked the dog again. He attacked me. He attacked another cat. Right now, after like, an hour and a half of work, I've got him in our basement bathroom, with the door shut. He has a litterbox, food, and water. I am about to crack.
Posted by cardmonsta[/QUOTE]
Whoa, like, since you posted he attacked the dog the first time? That's crazy for that amount of aggression in such a small time. Could he have had a...stroke? Or something? Even if he was aggressive before, it seems like there's something crazy happening in his brain today.
I'm really sorry you're dealing with this, though. I'm sure it's very, very hard to see even though you're doing all the right things.
Sorry this is happening. I really hope you are able to find a home for him.
Do you not have somewhere you can just drop him off like a Human Society?
ETA- Sorry these things were already asked and answered. I'm slow.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Our cat just attacked our dog. : Whoa, like, since you posted he attacked the dog the first time? That's crazy for that amount of aggression in such a small time. Could he have had a...stroke? Or something? Even if he was aggressive before, it seems like there's something crazy happening in his brain today. I'm really sorry you're dealing with this, though. I'm sure it's very, very hard to see even though you're doing all the right things.
Posted by saxy414[/QUOTE]
<div>I just spoke with his behaviorist and she said it's unlikely to be a neurological problem - but thanks for asking, because I wouldn't have even thought it could be a stroke or anything. I just went in the bathroom to check on him, and he is PISSED right now. She said he's most likely just really unhappy here. Which hurts, I won't lie.</div><div>
</div><div>She recommended that I follow through with a new home for him. So.</div><div>
</div><div>ETA: I'm seeing that an infection can cause aggression. SO I'm taking him to the vet tomorrow. Then we'll work from there.</div><div>
</div><div>Thanks all you guys for offering your advice. <3</div>
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my book shelf:
Ok, don't think I'm nuts but here's an option too, and it's easy enough to do with a quickly trip to the hardware store. Make a screen door and put it over any door frame in the house to keep in in that room w/o locking him up, stopping airflow, etc. My grandmother used to have one on her bedroom door in our house to keep the cats out of the room w/o closing up the door. Weird that we had a screen door inside? Very, but it worked.
As for the just getting rid of the cat option, consider St. Huberts in Madison. I know they're not 100% no-kill, but they try really really hard to find homes for all the pets. My parents have adopted a couple cats and a dog from them. No kill shelters are hard to come by, I actually thought St. Huberts was until I just looked at her website
I figured you had tried those options I mentioned earlier, I was just trying to think of ideas for you because its obvious you want to do whats best for your kitty.
I hate to tell you this because I know you are stressed and worried as it is, but I think putting him into a foster home or surrendering him to a shelter is not going to make him feel better or help his situation. He is obviously very axious and stressed around people and animals in general.
Fred Rogers
[QUOTE]I am so so sorry CM. I figured you had tried those options I mentioned earlier, I was just trying to think of ideas for you because its obvious you want to do whats best for your kitty. <strong>I hate to tell you this because I know you are stressed and worried as it is, but I think putting him into a foster home or surrendering him to a shelter is not going to make him feel better or help his situation. He is obviously very axious and stressed around people and animals in general.
Posted by aggiebug[/QUOTE]</strong>
<div>I think that's true. So I don't really know what the best option is, then.</div><div>
</div><div>ETA: And I hope you didn't take my responses as being dismissive or anything. I really appreciate you helping me out. :) It's just been a rough night, to say the least.</div>
EDIT: I'm sorry I just realized I wasn't posting on the MI board. Maybe google no-kill groups in you area (if you haven't already tried). Sounds like a tough situation- good luck!
I may get a lot of flack for it, but euthanasia is not always a terrible idea. I only say this to you because I know you will do anything in your power to make your kitty happy again. If I thought you were just to lazy etc I wouldn't even mention it, but I know that is not you. Just because he is not physically suffering from pain, he is still suffering immensely and none of us want that for our pets. I just don't want you to feel guilty about thinking about it as an option. It is an option, and it could be the best one for him. I can't and wouldn't make that decision, but I would completely understand if it is something you do consider.
Fred Rogers
I know you said that you tried Valium and antidepressants but have ou tried them separately or at the same time? At a certain dosage the combination of the 2 would calm Charles Manson. And I have a bit of experience with this - I had a cat that I swear was the reincarnation of a serial killer on crack and we finally hit on the right combo of meds to make him a reasonable pet. Some people may find tha objectionable but I felt it was better than an endless series of shelters or worse.
Edit: You and that - not ou and tha! One day I will learn to type.....