Justice of the Peace before Catholic ceremony

divinemsbee · March 2012

Yes. Do try the Catholic board. I'm sure this will go over really well with them. Mwah-ha-ha-ha.

I wrote some long-ass things yesterday basically saying what Irish and Amanda said, and I have a friend who got a convalidation about 5 years after her non-religious ceremony. It wasn't particularly easy. They don't make it easy.

I think what most of us had a big problem with yesterday was that you were saying that you couldn't afford to have a wedding, even in November 2013 because there was no way you guys, on two salaries, could afford to save for a wedding. And you were going to use the extra pay he got once you were married to pay for your PPD. That is, in fact, getting married for money.

My FI is an O in the Air Force and I have started working part-time. He actually could support both of us quite comfortably even without me working. I'm working partly because I needed something to do and partly because it helps us save up for extras for the wedding. We're paying, now, my family is helping some, but not for the majority of it. I realize that I both live right now and am having a wedding in places cheaper than those you mentioned (I think it was you live in DC and are getting married in San Diego?), but it shouldn't be that difficult, especially if you are working full-time (I assume that's what "salary" means).

Irishcurls · March 2012

Forfucksake, can you read??? You got a straight answer, twice. It's a convalidation. Google it, talk to the priest and be done with this thread. I mean, really. Now I'm getting annoyed. You came on here and passed judgement on all of us and how our weddings were paid for, so it goes both ways. We don't take well to special snowflake posts, and you can't get married outside the church and then get married within the church. End of story. Get the wedding blessed and move on.

divinemsbee · March 2012

Woman. Listen to us. Please. I am Catholic, as are several other people on this board. Just because we're not telling you what you want to hear does not mean we aren't telling you the truth. I'm sorry if I'm being short, but there have been several threads lately on different boards where all of these brides that want to do stuff like this all think they are special snowflakes. The Catholic Church does not recognize special snowflake as a reason to break a thousand or so years of tradition on marriage (marriage became a sacrament sometime in the 1300s, so, yeah).

If you go to a priest after you JOP and tell him that you want a wedding, he will, most probably, not do it. He may tell you that he will try to get you a convalidation. He might tell you that he won't. Here's the thing about them, they can be denied. For any reason that the priest or diocese sees fit to do so. There is no guarantee that you will ever be considered married in the Church unless you just go ahead and get married in the Church the first time. It doesn't have to be expensive, heck, you can actually get married during a weekday Mass if you want to and the priest agrees to it.

CAB1217 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_justice-of-the-peace-before-catholic-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:13Discussion:f9e662b5-e6b6-4211-9a8c-299ab263d695Post:126be760-9de6-4b29-8866-168a28e4b4e5">Re: Justice of the Peace before Catholic ceremony</a>:
[QUOTE]I hate explaining myself to people I do not know but I need advice on what our options are, I moved across the country to be with the one I love long before he proposed, my relationship has been built on many factors, one of them have never been money. We were both raised catholic and want to receive the sacrament of marriage.Then get married when you can afford it. Not because you want to play house NOW. I cannot begin to tell y'all how frustrating it is to not get a strait answer. My fiance and I are not 2 people that met 2 months ago and want to collect BAH.. So if ya'll continue to write how "disgusting" it is to get married and re-quote what i had initially put about how the money would benefit us in our situation, by all means go ahead! Maybe I should've started my post with how we met, the first meal i cooked for us, what colors we're using on our invitation, our proposal and our love story... All I'm asking for is someone who might have considered getting the JOP done before the Catholic ceremony..
Posted by carolyncleek[/QUOTE]
Your options are: Wait until Nov. 2013 to have your wedding
or: well, that's really it. You get 1 wedding. You can MAYBE get the convalidation, but not for the reasons you posted. You can have a vow renewal to celebrate with your friends and family, but it sounds like you want a do over. No such thing. You'll already be married. Whats the point of a wedding ceremony to officiate your marriage when you're already married? You can get upset all you want at the girls that said what they did, but how do you think the church will see it? Clearly, there is no reason to have a convalidation in the eyes of the church for you to have a do over wedding. That's not how it works.

And you're getting the advice you asked for, just not the answers you want. You need to realize that this is a public forum of strangers, not your BFF's that will validate your choices.

I see no reason why you can't wait to get married if not for the extra money you'll be getting.

AmandaSC1988 · March 2012

Lets all bitch and moan about how tough our life is.... lets seen I have been living apart from my FI for 2 years. We have paid rent for 2 apartments, bought bi- monthly plane tickets to vist each other, I get decent pay now but i was getting an intern salary for the past 6 months and before that I was just a student. FI is enlisted in the Navy and has a lot of debt to pay off.

We thought about getting married for the money... for about a day. Then we realized that it went totally against Catholic teaching so we opted not to. Plus it just felt silly to want to spend all that money to play pretend. Nothing wrong with it...but I had better things to do with my money.

You will not get validation for bad ideas here.....

lrh17 · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_justice-of-the-peace-before-catholic-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:f9e662b5-e6b6-4211-9a8c-299ab263d695Post:126be760-9de6-4b29-8866-168a28e4b4e5">Re: Justice of the Peace before Catholic ceremony</a>:
[QUOTE]I hate explaining myself to people I do not know but I need advice on what our options are, I moved across the country to be with the one I love long before he proposed, my relationship has been built on many factors, one of them have never been money. We were both raised catholic and want to receive the sacrament of marriage. I cannot begin to tell y'all how frustrating it is to not get a strait answer. My fiance and I are not 2 people that met 2 months ago and want to collect BAH.. So if ya'll continue to write how "disgusting" it is to get married and re-quote what i had initially put about how the money would benefit us in our situation, by all means go ahead! Maybe I should've started my post with how we met, the first meal i cooked for us, what colors we're using on our invitation, our proposal and our love story... All I'm asking for is someone who might have considered getting the JOP done before the Catholic ceremony..
Posted by carolyncleek[/QUOTE]

OP, it sounds like your faith is very important to you. While I am not Catholic, I am a Christian and my faith is also very important to me. And that is exactly why a JOP was never on the table for us. We wanted to get married in a church, so that's what we did since that is what mattered to us. So I guess I'm just having trouble understanding why you won't just wait until your Nov 2013 date to get married. Or have the church wedding soon and scale down to what you can afford.

Are there any other reasons you want to JOP besides the extra money? I'm not sure how living together and setting a date are reasons for JOP-ing. Perhaps you need to reevaluate your priorities.

These ladies really were trying to help. It just gets frustrating when you ask for opinions and then get mad when they're given. The Catholic board would be a better place to get info on the convalidation. Here's the first site that came up on a simple google search...I don't think you'll like what it has to say. <a href="http://www.churchofancientways.org/convalidation.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.churchofancientways.org/convalidation.html</a>

amh04 · March 2012

Why don't you just get married during a weekday mass - bam there is your Sacrament of Marriage idea on a JOP timeframe- and then do a VR later. Problem solved. Be prepared to do what the church requires you to do get married before hand. Most priests from down upon living together before marriage but will still consider marrying you, you'll have to do premartial counseling and a FOCUS test to give the priest an idea on what topics you two disagree on. This can be done (schedule permitting/diocese permitting - some require some form of NFP counseling which can take up to 5 months) in like a month.
Its up to the particular diocese/priest if they will allow a convalidation to be a big ordeal or not. Most won't.

deeNseth · March 2012

Yikes.

BITEYOURTONGUEBITEYOURTONGUEBITEYOURTONGUEBITEYOURTONGUEBITEYOURTONGUE

GAH! I just can't do it! Since it seems that not one of the lovely ladies in this thread has actually ever been in the OP's position, it is shocking to me that there is such a high level of animosity and ignorance.

One PP gave a link to a website about "convalidation" that was written by two "reverends," one of which was a WOMAN, which means they are clearly NOT Catholic and therefore necessarily unreliable sources for information on issues pertaining to the Catholic Church.

After a bit of digging (there is in fact a limited amount of info on the Church's position on this issue and one would be MUCH better off simply contacting their local parish) I found the following website which provides a VERY different view of the situation and which I find to be a much more credible source of information.

Happy researching.

ggirl2001 · March 2012

FFS. Holy reading comprehension fail. She was given the information multiple times. She didn't want it. Andplusalso, if your faith is oh so important to you then you would want your ceremony to be in the church right away, not a JOP. But nice try.

CAB1217 · March 2012

How about everyone just do whatever the hell they want to do with their own weddings/PPDs/do overs and stop asking strangers for advice and validation? K thanks!

I DON'T GET how people could possibly think in their own right minds that strangers do not agree with everything others do. ESPECIALLY when it comes to religious issues! Man I'm heated...

ggirl2001 · March 2012

Oh and also
link

So you also need to prepared to be penitent because you had your JOP. Except you're not, if you're rushing it because you can't afford to wait? Is lying to the priest going to be the next option? That's a good catholic thing to do right?

And as somebody who waited a year and half to get married and could have rushed it many times. I find it HIGHLY offensive that is said that apparently I have never been in the OP's shoes. So get off your fuucking high horse. You have no clue what anyone has been through on these boards.

CAB1217 · March 2012

YEAH! What Geegs said!

AmandaSC1988 · March 2012

No one has been in her situation? Helloooooooooooo?????? I don’t see how she is a special snowflake?

FI is in the military… Everyone above is in that situation.
They are Catholic ….. Many of the women above (including me) are Catholic.
They don’t have much money… Well, most of the women here pay for their own weddings too..without cheating the system.

Convalidation is mainly for couples that were married outside the church and since converted, they wanting to be in full communion with the Catholic Church get their marriage validate with the Church. NOT Catholics who did not want to follow the rules the first time around. I HAVE heard of couples that got their convalidation denied because the priest did not think they were talking it seriously enough. ..but I have also heard of couple who couldn’t get married because they were not talking it seriously enough, so it goes both ways. The Church does NOT wavier with its rules because you are a special snowflake. They are A LOT more flexible about these things with converted Catholics, cradle Catholics who claim to be strong in their faith will get a lot more problems.

divinemsbee · March 2012

Hey, Sweet Dee--From your website:

"The actual exchange of vows before a priest took place at the main altar after a Saturday night Mass, with only members of their immediate family attending. Maria and Tony dressed in the same outfits they had worn for the Florida ceremony.

With considerable abbreviation and adaptation, the priest used the basic “Rite for Celebrating Marriage Outside Mass.” The service took about 10 minutes. Afterward, the family celebrated at a local restaurant."

This is what a convalidation looks like. This is what most convalidations are. It's not a big deal do-over white-dress-and-bridesmaids deal. It's also a lot harder to get one if you've only been married a short period of time because it's seen as something you could've just done in the first place. While I haven't gotten, and won't be getting, a convalidation, as previously stated, a very good friend of mine did. It was much easier for her because they'd been married almost 5 years and already had one kid and one on the way.

Don't get on Irh's butt about it, she said she wasn't Catholic and just did a cursory Google, her info wasn't even wrong. Plus, her website even quotes Canon, and it's pretty straightforward. "With a little bit of digging," I can find something on the internet to justify most things. Doesn't make it right.

There wasn't animosity here, and certainly no ignorance, we were just giving the facts as we all know them, and if all of us are saying the exact same thing (almost to the word) it might be something she wants to listen to before she goes and either makes a fool of herself or does something she may regret.

ggirl2001 · March 2012

Oh and FTR I don't give a shiit if someone wants 8 weddings and 7 PPD's and 6 vow renewals. But, when someone is giving you advice about how to do it, you might want to listen. And, since OP did originally say they are JOPing now to afford their wedding, then yeah I judge the shiit out of that. Get married if you want, but get married for the right reasons, and have 62 parties if you want to.

kara811 · March 2012

Whothefuck is this Dee??? FFS, there are many of us in here who are Catholics! OP was told to talk to the priest! They're all so different.

Irishcurls · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_justice-of-the-peace-before-catholic-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:f9e662b5-e6b6-4211-9a8c-299ab263d695Post:53953bf5-0172-4c7b-9946-c2a9125b02cb">Re: Justice of the Peace before Catholic ceremony</a>:
[QUOTE]Yikes. YOURTONGUEBITEYOURTONGUEBITEYOURTONGUE GAH! I just can't do it! Since it seems that not one of the lovely ladies in this thread has actually ever been in the OP's position, it is shocking to me that there is such a high level of animosity and ignorance. One PP gave a link to a website about "convalidation" that was written by two "reverends," one of which was a WOMAN, which means they are clearly NOT Catholic and therefore necessarily unreliable sources for information on issues pertaining to the Catholic Church. After a bit of digging (there is in fact a limited amount of info on the Church's position on this issue and one would be MUCH better off simply contacting their local parish) I found the following website which provides a VERY different view of the situation and which I find to be a much more credible source of information. Happy researching.
Posted by deeNseth[/QUOTE]
You mean the part about pocketing almost 5 grand over the course of our unmarried relationship had we just signed the papers? Cause we did the math and it hurt a bit. But we didn't want to do that, so we just dealt with it. Or. Sorry. The part about being a confirmed Catholic who didn't see an option about not receiving the Sacrament of Marriage? Or, oh no, that's not it. The part about KNOWING HOW TO GET THE MARRIAGE BLESSED and numerous times directing OP to speak to her priest, ESPECIALLY before they made any decisions that would eventually preclude her from getting the blessing they want. I know what the fucck I'm talking about in all three of those instances. Get over yourself.

kara811 · March 2012

You tell 'em Irish" ; FTR, if we cheated the system, my H would have made serious BANK in Japan! But no we wanted to do it the RIGHT way.

crownsuperstar · March 2012

I am lame and can't quote more than one person but second what the other ladies (CAB, GG, Irish, Divine, Kara and Amanda). I have nothing further to add but you really don't know/have not been around long enough to know what each of us have/going through. So please do not get all high and mighty when you do not know history of the ladies here.

lrh17 · March 2012

Essentially OP is going to be lying to the priest. It sounds like you have to show that you are repentent for entering into a marriage that the Catholic Church considers to be 'invalid'. If you're already planning on having a convalidation, you know you have to convince the priest that what you did was wrong. And if you truly believe it is wrong, you wouldn't be doing it in the first place. How does that make any sense?!

And I'm sorry Dee, I didn't realize that a website written by a male was so obviously a reliable source.

I know it's already been said, but seriously?! How can you say none of us have been in this posiiton? We moved our wedding up a few months due to H's TDY dates, still got married in the church b/c that's what was important to us, and had the wedding we could afford at the time.

Irishcurls · March 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_military-brides_justice-of-the-peace-before-catholic-ceremony?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:13Discussion:f9e662b5-e6b6-4211-9a8c-299ab263d695Post:8bda3ce4-fffd-4bb1-8fd6-a1fb08f81ab8">Re: Justice of the Peace before Catholic ceremony</a>:
[QUOTE]Essentially OP is going to be lying to the priest. It sounds like you have to show that you are repentent for entering into a marriage that the Catholic Church considers to be 'invalid'. If you're already planning on having a convalidation, you know you have to convince the priest that what you did was wrong. And if you truly believe it is wrong, you wouldn't be doing it in the first place. How does that make any sense?! And I'm sorry Dee, I didn't realize that a website written by a male was so obviously a reliable source. I know it's already been said, but seriously?! How can you say none of us have been in this posiiton? We moved our wedding up a few months due to H's TDY dates, still got married in the church b/c that's what was important to us, and had the wedding we could afford at the time.
Posted by lrh17[/QUOTE]<div>Shhh, you're making too much sense Lr. That's enough of that around here.

</div>

calindi · March 2012

My original advice before TK ate it is to talk to you priest. As Irish as mentioned (over and over) the Catholic Church usually has a number of requirements to recognize your marriage, and if you're already married, they call the ceremony a convalidation and it's supposed to be rather different than a wedding ceremony, much more toned-down. If that's not what you envisioned, then you'll want to talk to your priest about how to schedule your church wedding as it fits the military schedule and make it your only wedding.

Not being able to afford a wedding is not a problem exclusive to military couples - lots of people can't afford weddings when they want to get married. They either have the wedding they can afford at the time or they wait until they can afford it. For whatever reason, only in the military do people think it's acceptable to get married so that they can save up more money so they can have a wedding. If a civilian told you, "Well, if we get married, I save $400 per month on health insurance, so we're doing that so I can save the health insurance money and pay for our wedding next year" people would look at them strange. Getting married so you can pay for a wedding is being money-greedy. And rather silly - weddings are supposed to be the day you get married, not the day you pretend to get married.

Do what's right for you - but do the research. We're not big 'meanies', the Catholic church seriously doesn't do a lot of convalidations. The only one who can answer that is your priest. If that's important to you, look into that before pursuing the JOP option to make sure you get what you're looking for in the long run.

ggirl2001 · March 2012

Cal, stop with the logic here. It's not needed.

BTCarolus · March 2012

Wow, b!tchy, judgy knotties. So, we were married JOP last July, and are having the marriage ceremony outside of the mass next August. It's totally cool with not only our priest, but my parent's parish priest. Our priest, incidentally, is a monsignor and canon lawyer who specializes in canon law related to marriage. So I think I'll go with him over the opinions of Irishcurls, et al. This is possible within the Church. In point of fact, the wedding prep materials that we went through from our archdiocese are specifically set up for people in this situation. So it's not like it was a new thing.

So, Carolyncleek, the other issue is why you're trying to do it this way. I'm not so worried about you "getting married for money" as I am about whether your guests will look kindly on this. There are limited cases where guests will understand a delay between the legal and religious ceremony. Deployment issues, visa issues, that kind of thing. But if you're just delaying for the sake of delaying and getting a bigger party together, your friends and family are probably not going to be amused. Have something smaller, have something less fancy, but don't think people are going to be excited for you if you just have a huge delay for no reason.

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