Earn cash as you plan. Get a $20 gift card for every 200 points with The Knot Rewards
Catholic Weddings
Chloeagh
member
Okay, I have to ask
There have been a lot of posts about annulments lately and this is bothering me. Can someone please explain to me why annulments are good? Everyone on this board seems to be 110% supportive of annulments and congradulates people on annulments and that is not something I understand.
I understand how in certain circumstances they make sense, but I was raised to believe annulments are horrible. Even my very Catholic grandma, thinks it's better to get a divorce and not be able to take communion than to say that the marriage never happened. And this is the woman that convinced my grandpa (who can't hear the sermons anymore) that he needs to keep going to church because you go to get the sacrament.
My parents divorced when I was young and both are remarried. While, from what I've heard, they would have been granted an annulment, neither of them ever wanted that. My mom married for life, and although she is happily remarried, a part of her still loves my dad because she married for life. And you can't just say those 12 years of her life didn't happen.
My mom also knows someone who got a call saying her marriage had been annulled. Just that. Even though it was her marriage, they wouldn't tell her the reason her marriage was invalid. You may say she can now be happy and have a valid marriage like her ex-husband, but she doesn't want to. That first marriage was 100% valid in her eyes, so she can't remarry, even if the church says she can.
I think what really bothers me is that until yesterday, I had never heard of someone seeking an annulment that didn't get one. That is much too high a percentage of invalid marriages for me. I was raised to believe that when you marry, you actually get married and no one can take that away from you. That's why you don't get married on a whim and you do pre-marital counseling, because marriage is for life and it isn't easy to break. When you marry someone and consumate the marriage, you become one flesh. You can't invalidate that.
I don't want to make any of the women on this board who have gotten annulments feel bad or like I'm judging them. I don't know your situation. And I understand for some people it's very important to get remarried in the church. I just would like to prehaps hear the way annulments were described to other people, and why you think they are good. However, I don't want to hear, "Well, the church doesn't invalidate marriages unless they are invalid." I've seen that a lot but it isn't enough for me because I personally don't believe a marriage can be invalid unless one or both of the parties was unable to give consent, and I've seen marriages annulled when both people were fully capable of giving consent.
I understand how in certain circumstances they make sense, but I was raised to believe annulments are horrible. Even my very Catholic grandma, thinks it's better to get a divorce and not be able to take communion than to say that the marriage never happened. And this is the woman that convinced my grandpa (who can't hear the sermons anymore) that he needs to keep going to church because you go to get the sacrament.
My parents divorced when I was young and both are remarried. While, from what I've heard, they would have been granted an annulment, neither of them ever wanted that. My mom married for life, and although she is happily remarried, a part of her still loves my dad because she married for life. And you can't just say those 12 years of her life didn't happen.
My mom also knows someone who got a call saying her marriage had been annulled. Just that. Even though it was her marriage, they wouldn't tell her the reason her marriage was invalid. You may say she can now be happy and have a valid marriage like her ex-husband, but she doesn't want to. That first marriage was 100% valid in her eyes, so she can't remarry, even if the church says she can.
I think what really bothers me is that until yesterday, I had never heard of someone seeking an annulment that didn't get one. That is much too high a percentage of invalid marriages for me. I was raised to believe that when you marry, you actually get married and no one can take that away from you. That's why you don't get married on a whim and you do pre-marital counseling, because marriage is for life and it isn't easy to break. When you marry someone and consumate the marriage, you become one flesh. You can't invalidate that.
I don't want to make any of the women on this board who have gotten annulments feel bad or like I'm judging them. I don't know your situation. And I understand for some people it's very important to get remarried in the church. I just would like to prehaps hear the way annulments were described to other people, and why you think they are good. However, I don't want to hear, "Well, the church doesn't invalidate marriages unless they are invalid." I've seen that a lot but it isn't enough for me because I personally don't believe a marriage can be invalid unless one or both of the parties was unable to give consent, and I've seen marriages annulled when both people were fully capable of giving consent.
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Okay, I have to ask
I would add that a part of me gets irritated with annulments because even though the marriage may be shown to be invalid (for whatever reason), that's not WHY the couple split up.
It's not like one day the couple realized, "hey, I think our marriage is invalid, we never really consented to this, we should get it annuled." No, instead, the couple wants a divorce because they don't love each other, or they fight a lot, or one cheated on the other, or they have money problems, etc... and in the cases where annulments are granted, it just so happens that now they are free from this marriage that was a burden to them now.
You never hear of a couple who finds out their marriage wasn't valid, then tries to amend that and make their marriage valid. I think it would be a better solution in some instances where the couple is having problems to see if the marriage was valid, and if it wasn't work on that. Work on their relationship until they can make a valid commitment, get married properly, and receive the graces of the sacrament.
A couple married invalidly isn't receiving the graces of the sacrament of marriage, but if they were, then they might be strengthened more to solve their problems better. It would require sacrifice, but isn't that what we're called to?
My point of all this is that there are cases in which annulments are necessary, and even a "good" thing. Someone in an abusive relationship, for example, if they can receive an annulment and move on to a healthier relationship, should.
But for many, I think, annulments are treated just as loophole divorces. I think it would be better if more people tried to heal and validate the marriage, not end it.
It also should be said that annulments do not fall under infallbility. It's possile for the Church to be wrong. BUT, I think in most cases, the men and women on annulment tribunals try really hard and make correct decisions, so I think we should give the Church the benefit of the doubt on annulments and not make any judgments of "well, I think that one was wrong, etc."
I will also say that even though annulments are not the ideal solution, it is much better for someone to receive one and be able to live in grace with God than to remarry without one and be cut off from the sacraments. It is never preferable to live in sin.
I'm saddened by how many remarried Catholics I know who have left the Church now because they can't receive the sacraments.
SaveSave
</div><div>[QUOTE] </div><div> You never hear of a couple who finds out their marriage wasn't valid, then tries to amend that and make their marriage valid. I think it would be a better solution in some instances where the couple is having problems to see if the marriage was valid, and if it wasn't work on that. Work on their relationship until they can make a valid commitment, get married properly, and receive the graces of the sacrament. A couple married invalidly isn't receiving the graces of the sacrament of marriage, but if they were, then they might be strengthened more to solve their problems better. It would require sacrifice, but isn't that what we're called to?</div><div>Posted by monkeysip[/QUOTE] </div><div>I think that would be GREAT if someone would do that, and I am sure that no one in the Catholic Church would complain if that's what someone wanted to do that! (but to me, the thought of someone actually trying to do that seems so far-out that it's actually amusing. unfortunately. sigh.)</div><div>Or better yet, what if people who weren't granted annulments were like, "hm, our marriage was actually valid, according to the CC. Maybe that's a sign that we should try extra hard to work and see if we can repair it?" (Obviously, that wouldnt be possible in every single case, but it's worth thinking about.)</div>
I had counseling, both spiritually and psychologically, to make sure I really knew and understood what I was wanting to commit to. I hadn't intended to seek an annulment until my priest suggested it. When I got all the paperwork to fill out, it was really gut-wrenching to have to own up to my mistakes and ultimate fraud from the very beginning. I felt terrible and prayed a lot for forgiveness.
There are several reasons a marriage can be annuled. My particular case qualified for 3 different reasons. By the end, it was affirmed as annuled for only 1 reason. So, they do really go through all the paperwork, and all the testimony to try to make the best case for it being valid.
At every step of the way, my ex was informed of the process. It's required. And at any time, he could have argued against it and made his case. He did not. I don't know that the outcome would have been different if he had, but I can easily see how it would effect other cases. Had he wanted, he could have appealed the case all the way to Rome. That's how much they care about both sides having a say and fighting for the validity of the marriage.
At the end, I can say that as painful as it was for me to go through, it was also very enlightening and freeing. I saw and learned so much about myself. I know what not to do. I sought forgiveness, and feel like maybe one day, I will be. I am so tremendously grateful for this second chance and I feel like I've grown so much closer to the Church as a result of this process. And I'm so happy that we can receive the sacraments together when Fi and I get married this October.
I know that doesn't make a case for all annulments, but I hope it lets you see a little bit that it can be done for pure and true purposes and not false ones. There was no lie, at least, in any of mine.
Source: Uploaded by user via Sarah on Pinterest
I didn't get an annulment because I wanted to remarry just then, quite the opposite in fact.
Counseling helped me to realize that my divorce didn't mean that I was a failure, it meant there was a mistake there all along. And the Church agreed.
I consider that the Church has the annulment process as a statement on her part of the incredible value and importance of marriage, especially in recognizing the courthouse wedding my non-Catholic DH had when he was young (and almost any civil or religious marriage ceremony). Most of us would agree that the Catholic Church is one of the foremost defenders of the sanctity of marriage, so the annulment process is hardly taken lightly. When DH went through it, someone was appointed specifically to defend the marriage bond, and two tribunals had to consider the marriage invalid. His first marriage included deception about a significant mental illness as well as abuse and threats to his life. From what he’s shared with me—and we walked through his whole annulment process together—I don’t think God would want anyone to be in that constant emotional turmoil and physical danger. The Church’s annulment meant that he could form a marriage bond with me that better reflects the sanctity of God’s plan for a husband and wife. That is a beautiful opportunity.
Not only was I raised with a negative view towards annulments, but before coming here, the only stories I had heard were similar to my mom's friend, who was not involved, so she couldn't fight it. She wasn't even told why her marriage was invalid when she asked. Was that just a bad bishop?
Also, what makes a marriage invalid? Maybe if I understood why a marriage can be invalid I would understand annulments better. I was always under the impression that if you were both capable of consent (sober, of age, and not being forced) and the marriage was consumated, it was valid. I also find it hard to understand how you can become one flesh with someone, then have that connection called invalid. Any views on that would be appreciated.
[QUOTE]When you hear these stories, you are only hearing one side, often removed from the actual person involved, and they almost always do not include all of the complete information.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]
I'm confused by this statement. I heard these stories directly from the people they happened to. In the situation I'm asking about, the woman directly told me, "I asked why my marriage was invalid and they told me that was classified information." That is not removed from the person involved and even if I didn't get all the information, that part is complete enough for me to side-eye the whole situation and the bishop involved.
Typically, all communications are made in writing and require a written response. If she didn't contact them in a written statement, that may be why she was denied access to the case file. If she was never contacted in any of this, then all the diocesan members involved are at fault.
Source: Uploaded by user via Sarah on Pinterest
[QUOTE]At ever juncture, this "woman" you speak of should have been notified of the process: when it began, the supposed reasons for nullity, the option for contributing testimony, the option of supplying their own witnesses, the option to oppose the reasons for nullity, the option to oppose the decision rendered in the first instance, the option to oppose in the second instance, and the option to appeal to the Roman Rota. If none if this happened, then she has significant grounds to have the annulment ruling reversed with her own separate appeal. Typically, all communications are made in writing and require a written response. If she didn't contact them in a written statement, that may be why she was denied access to the case file. If she was never contacted in any of this, then all the diocesan members involved are at fault.
Posted by lv2011[/QUOTE]
Why is woman in quotations? Do you think I'm making this up?
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]
Um... why would you need to see sources? That's just an opinion I happened to express and I've heard others express. Opinions don't have to be backed up by anything - that's why they're opinions, and I certainly have no desire to argue it or even discuss it here.<div>
</div><div>And Chloeagh, I doubt she meant anything by putting it in quotes. She probably just did that to emphasis (or something) who she was talking about.</div>
[QUOTE]Um... why would you need to see sources? That's just an opinion I happened to express and I've heard others express. Opinions don't have to be backed up by anything - that's why they're opinions, and I certainly have no desire to argue it or even discuss it here. And Chloeagh, I doubt she meant anything by putting it in quotes. She probably just did that to emphasis (or something) who she was talking about.
Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]
<div>I actually was responding to the original poster.</div><div>
</div><div>Opinions are usually based on "something". How many people have an opinion on the catholic church when the idea is actually based on something they heard, and its not actually true. We already see in several threads here there are many misunderstandings on what an annulment actually is. I was asking for where My question is about where they got the idea to begin with? It's a fair question, especially when they are making such judgements that its "too high a percentage" that are granted, when they have no access to the tribunal courts judgements or how they came about. </div>
[QUOTE]Agape, I think when you hear about celebrities receiving annulments for their 48-hour weddings, it's easy to assume that there are a ton of annulments just handed out to anyone who wants one. I know that's not the case, and I know most of these "annulments" are not Catholic. That goes back to your comment that the problems associated with annulments are much, much bigger than people just getting married who should not.
Posted by professorscience[/QUOTE]
<div>yes, that's why I also threw in that point about the existence of civil annulments. Lots of opnions being made without really a lot of background accept anecdotal stories of people they know. </div>
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Okay, I have to ask : Why is woman in quotations? Do you think I'm making this up?
Posted by Chloeagh[/QUOTE]
Of course not. That's a ridiculous assumption. I used quotations so you'd know I was referring to the same woman you were, since there was no name to capitalize and reference.
Source: Uploaded by user via Sarah on Pinterest
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Okay, I have to ask : yes, that's why I also threw in that point about the existence of civil annulments. Lots of opnions being made without really a lot of background accept anecdotal stories of people they know.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]
<div>I saw where you mentioned that. It's not the church's fault, really, that this misconception exists, but it still exists.</div>