Sign the dotted line, baby.

bajediva · July 2010

Partly because I'm bored waiting on BF to get home and partly because I'm curious, how do you gals feel about pre-nuptial agreements? Any married hags signed any? Any engaged ladies or NEYs planning on one? Anybody vehemently opposed?

catemeg · July 2010

People say that premarital agreements doom marriages. I sort of look at it like a will - you don't want to die, but it's sort of nice to have it all figured out when everything's healthy and you have a clear mind. It would be ignorant to think none of us on this board will be divorced - sad but true, probably at least 30% (conservatively) of us will get divorced at some point. There's no real way to predict which ones (except Jewish couples apparently have a very small divorce rate as my colleague keeps telling me, go figure). Plus, at least with wills, they say people who prepare wills are significantly less likely to die prematurely. It makes sense - those that take the care to pay attention to the details before tend to be more cautious in general, thus living longer. I think the same about marriages.

If neither of the couple has many assets going into the marriage (especially with young marriages), it matters very little. It only applies to assets going into the marriage, anything earned during the marriage would still be up for discussion.

In our case, it will be pretty simple. We're both in agreement that we will sign a prenup, but we've already merged all of our own assets - I'm on his car title, he's on mine, we share bank accounts (not that either of us has a lot of savings right now). So that all is not applicable. But I have a good bit of money in trust for me from grandparents and parents, so that would be covered with the prenup, as mandated by the trusts. And we'd probably put a clause or two in there about how each person would be entitled to keep a majority of their income, but providing for a spouse who had been a dependent (I plan on being a SAHM for a bit, and he's said that if my career takes off he'll stay home with the kids). Not that any of that would hold up in court, but it's good to discuss the worst case scenarios ahead of time.

katanne9 · July 2010

I'm not wild about pre-nups, but I DO think they have a place.

The only way I would sign one/ask my FI to sign one is if I was inheriting a lot of money that was passed down through my family. In the event of my death I would want to make sure it was passed on to my children.

bajediva · July 2010

I agree with both of you with regards to protecting inherited assets. In a previous semi-serious relationship, it did come up at some point that were we to consider marriage, a pre-nup would be a necessity, to assure his parents that his trust would be secure. I felt like I really had no interest in it anyway, so I would've been fine with that.

With BF now, we've never discussed it. We don't have much to speak of, although he does stand to inherit quite a bit of family property. Considering the length of time that we've been friends, and the connections our families have had even before that, I would definitely give the side eye if he felt one was necessary.

bethsmiles · July 2010

There really is no reason for either of us to sign a pre-nup. We will probably getting married either right after our undergrads or after he is done with grad school so its not like we will have much and neither of us will be inheriting much that we know of.

tafft1 · July 2010

I told FI when we started dating and when marriage first came up - I volunteered to sign one without hesitation. I understand how hard FI has worked to make his life better and really come back from some serious hardships and I wanted Him to know that I am not marrying Him for benefits , money or anything to make my life easier - but because I truly love Him with all I am and want to be His and with Him always.

I don't think it's a bad idea for anyone , especially if kids are involved or anything of personal value , etc. It should definitely be a mutual choice and not an ultimadum.

jemmini6 · July 2010

i would sign one if he wanted me to because i don't plan on ever needing it. although it doesn't really make sense because neither one of us has any significant assets we are bringing into the marriage. he does own his own house and is smart about saving, but if the situation arose where we needed to divorce, i'm not the type of person that would try to take that from him and he knows that.

Narwhal · July 2010

We wouldn't need one, and I don't think it would be a dealbreaker for me, but I would feel very uncomfortable signing or asking someone to sign one.

bethsmiles · July 2010

I have a question! I was thinking about it and I guess I don't really know what all pre-nups really involve...could someone give me a brief overview. I know they are supposed to protect your assests if you get divorced, but after reading your responses I feel like I don't really know...

bajediva · July 2010

That's precisely what it is, beth. It basically ensures that assets acquired prior to marriage are not included in any legal division of assets in the event of divorce. But they're fully customizeable to include just about anything the couple wants to cover, although some issues may or may not be backed up by law should it ever be disputed.

loopy82 · July 2010

I don't have a problem with them. FI has way more than I do and one of his co-workers asked if he was going to do a pre-nup and he thought they were ridiculous. Apparenlty he faith that I am not one to take him to the cleaners in the event something were to happen. I wouldn't.

bethsmiles · July 2010

Thanks baje!

leia1979 · July 2010

BF and I have discussed it. I have a lot more money saved up and in my various retirement plans, and I want to make sure those assets are protected just in case something doesn't work out. BF is fine with it. I know he's not a greedy person, but we both deal with risk management, and I think this is the way to mitigate financial risk in case of divorce.

Let me project management nerd out on you all for a sec...I measure risk in terms of probability times impact. In this case, while the probability is low, the potential impact is high, therefore mitigation is required.

Also, California community property laws don't sit too well with me (for me). BF and I are in agreement what's mine is mine and what's his is his. A friend of mine does family law. She didn't get a prenup because neither she nor her husband had much in assets. I think it becomes a talking point when there is a gap between one spouse-to-be and the other.

musikbx · July 2010

Boyfriend and I will most certainly getting a prenup when the time comes, but we're unromantic like that ;-)

MeShell1313 · July 2010

I9DK.

BF and I have talked about have a Pre-nup. I'm not a fan but I can understand them.
I don't 'believe in divorce (if you marry, you marry for life), but I'm willing to sign one with my BF b/c he owns his own busines in CA.
I don't belive I would have 'share' in his hard work (even though I work for him now at his shop) Maybe it's just the kinda of ego-centric person I am. I belive you should only get what you earn.

I would sign anything in a heartbeat to marry my man. I don't care if it means i get nothing if we split. This is not what I think about

loves2shop4shoes · July 2010

Personally, I would never sign a prenup. I don't believe in them.

In my situation, I have some money saved up and I stand to inherit several properties in Europe. BF does a good job of saving part of his paycheck, but when push comes to shove, I have a lot more to lose financially than he does.

Not to sound like a complete tool, but regardless of the divorce statistics, I will not be getting divorced. I absolutely, wholeheartedly refuse to...and I've said as much to BF. My parents had such an ugly divorce that I refuse to put my future children or myself through that. You have marital problems? Get counseling. That doesn't work, but your ego aside and get a new counselor.

There are only a handful of situations in which I think divorce would be acceptable: he's abusing you, he's abusing the kids, he's repeatedly cheating on you. For all other things, I think you can solve it. If any of the aforementioned things happened, I'd kill him. Problem solved...no divorce necessary.

nickles26 · July 2010

I would/will most definitly get a pre-nup. BF and I don't have any assets, but I want to make sure to protect him against my debt. I went to undergrad/law school and paid for everything (by paid, I mean taking out all of my own loan in my name only). BF does not have that much school debt (miniscule compared to mine). Law school depleated by credit, and BF has helped support me through the past couple of years. I know we will be relying on his awesome credit score for future big purchases. So- I would sign a pre-nup to insulate our seperate debts and to make sure that if he buys the house, but I conrtibute to it, that my contributions are protected. Things like that. It's just easier in the end, if there is an end.

katanne9 · July 2010

Let me clarify my reasoning.

If I happened to inherit a lot of money (I'm talking multi-millions) and shouldst FI and I have kids, I die and he remarried, I would want that money to go to my children just in case he married a bsc beebee who would waste my ancestors money on purses and shoes.

However, none of this is real and he would never remarry such a nitwit.

GreenPepperBurger · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_sign-dotted-line-baby?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:dcc84095-4189-4d7d-8e41-9728cbc70f56Post:ae1ebddd-0cf0-43bb-b795-aa9c4475c3c0">Re: Sign the dotted line, baby.</a>:
[QUOTE]People say that premarital agreements doom marriages. I sort of look at it like a will - you don't want to die, but it's sort of nice to have it all figured out when everything's healthy and you have a clear mind. It would be ignorant to think none of us on this board will be divorced - sad but true, probably at least 30% (conservatively) of us will get divorced at some point. <strong> There's no real way to predict which ones (except Jewish couples apparently have a very small divorce rate as my colleague keeps telling me, go figure).</strong> Plus, at least with wills, they say people who prepare wills are significantly less likely to die prematurely. It makes sense - those that take the care to pay attention to the details before tend to be more cautious in general, thus living longer. I think the same about marriages. If neither of the couple has many assets going into the marriage (especially with young marriages), it matters very little. It only applies to assets going into the marriage, anything earned during the marriage would still be up for discussion. In our case, it will be pretty simple. We're both in agreement that we will sign a prenup, but we've already merged all of our own assets - I'm on his car title, he's on mine, we share bank accounts (not that either of us has a lot of savings right now). So that all is not applicable. But I have a good bit of money in trust for me from grandparents and parents, so that would be covered with the prenup, as mandated by the trusts. And we'd probably put a clause or two in there about how each person would be entitled to keep a majority of their income, but providing for a spouse who had been a dependent (I plan on being a SAHM for a bit, and he's said that if my career takes off he'll stay home with the kids). Not that any of that would hold up in court, but it's good to discuss the worst case scenarios ahead of time.
Posted by catemeg[/QUOTE]

Really? I'm Jewish and there are lots of divorces on my side and BF is half-Jewish and all of the divorces in his family came from the Jewish side. So I find that statistic interesting.

Like most PPs, I don't think that BF and I will be in a financial position in which we will need a pre-nup, so I don't think we'd sign one. However, pre-nups can also determine what happens to future earnings in the event of a divorce. So I'm kind of on the fence, but I would probably sign one if that's what BF wanted. If I was going into a marriage with significantly more money that I made on my own, then I would definitely want a pre-nup signed (my brother has quite a bit of money and has already said he's going to make his future wife sign a prenup).

katanne9 · July 2010

64.8% of statistics are crap.

Hazel_B · July 2010

I have been told by my father that it will be necesssary for me to have a prenup. There has been a really messy divorce in my family and we watched fighting over pension rights by a spouse who essentially contributed nothing to the marriage, in that case what was fair isn't always right. Anyway, if BF and I were to get married I'm bringing a house, a pension and future inheritances with me. It isn't so much that I wouldn't want him to have those things it's more I want to protect any future children. I know that is certainly my father's perspective as well, he wants his money to go to me or his grandchildren.

catemeg · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_sign-dotted-line-baby?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:dcc84095-4189-4d7d-8e41-9728cbc70f56Post:86360f31-e3fd-44b2-8a6e-7988c1177855">Re: Sign the dotted line, baby.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sign the dotted line, baby. : Really? I'm Jewish and there are lots of divorces on my side and BF is half-Jewish and all of the divorces in his family came from the Jewish side. So I find that statistic interesting.
Posted by GreenPepperBurger[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I don't know where he got it from, or what the actual percentages are, but apparently some study showed that Jewish couples have the lowest divorce rate (he says something like 20%). I don't even know if it's just in this country or if it includes Israel, which would make it a less powerful argument for me since it's a different culture.

I just know every time anyone brings up marriage or divorce in my office, he starts talking about how Jews never divorce. I've met his girlfriend and seen them argue on the phone all day at work... I'd bet money he'll get divorced if he marries her. It's sadly one of those relationships that anyone can see is really unhealthy.

GreenPepperBurger · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_sign-dotted-line-baby?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:dcc84095-4189-4d7d-8e41-9728cbc70f56Post:41e57598-f387-4fa2-bd93-7a6cb7c19450">Re: Sign the dotted line, baby.</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Sign the dotted line, baby. : Yeah, I don't know where he got it from, or what the actual percentages are, but apparently some study showed that Jewish couples have the lowest divorce rate (he says something like 20%). I don't even know if it's just in this country or if it includes Israel, which would make it a less powerful argument for me since it's a different culture. I just know every time anyone brings up marriage or divorce in my office, he starts talking about how Jews never divorce. I've met his girlfriend and seen them argue on the phone all day at work... I'd bet money he'll get divorced if he marries her. It's sadly one of those relationships that anyone can see is really unhealthy.
Posted by catemeg[/QUOTE]

Hmm. Maybe he means religious Jews, like Orthodox or Hasidic. I know divorce is very rare for them. But when it comes to conservative or reformed Jews, I think divorce is just as prevalent as it is for couples of any other ethnic background.

dwest2201 · July 2010

I see nothing wrong with pre-nups in the case of protecting inheritances for future generations etc or as PP mentioned in protecting one person from the others debts.

I was previously married to someone who had a trust and stood to inherit a decent amount of money (still will but now it is significantly less due to the stock market and property values). We did not sign a pre-nup, I was more than willing as I had no interest in money that I was not entitled to but he felt is was wrong to make me. We separated and he still has his trust, his family gives him money for all kinds of things (cars, vacations etc.) and I got nothing, I didn't even ask for a dime of child support (even though he makes nearly 15K more than I do). I did not want HIS (or his families money). Our agreement is that he (and his family) are to pay for all of our son's medical care until he is an adult and that they will contribute to his college fund and trust, I will as I can as well.

I would rather be broke and happy and rich and miserable any day though, not everyone feels the same as not everyone can be happy when they are broke!

Acrosthec · July 2010

I see nothing wrong with pre-nups. As a lawyer, I know that they definitely have their place.

Neither FI nor I are coming into the relationship with any significant assets though, so they aren't necessary for us. In the case of a divorce, any inheritance in Georgia is not considered marital assets that can be touched by a separation agreement, and in the case of death any inheritance I have received will go to FI if we don't have children according to common law estate practices here (if I haven't received any because I pre-decease my parents, it will all go to my brother...there's a whole list of people it would go to, and it's long and complicated and was most definitely on the bar exam...jerks). As soon as we find out we're pregnant we'll write a will that will set up a trust for the kids in the event of either of our deaths. I'm also pretty sure that a good chunk of my inheritance will be given to my children in trust whenever we have them, as you don't get nailed with inheritance taxes if you skip a generation in Georgia.

**Mutley** · July 2010

Pre-nups can also protect one person from the other's debts that he/she brought into the relationship. (Correct me if I am wrong, Acro.)

We didn't sign one. However, in several talks about our future and our goals in life, there are a couple of instances where we would want out children to sign one. We plan on starting a couple of different businesses and would want those to stay within the family.

Acrosthec · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_sign-dotted-line-baby?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:dcc84095-4189-4d7d-8e41-9728cbc70f56Post:a02c9c63-b974-42f2-aa67-98bcef44fd6f">Re: Sign the dotted line, baby.</a>:
[QUOTE]Pre-nups can also protect one person from the other's debts that he/she brought into the relationship. (Correct me if I am wrong, Acro.) We didn't sign one.
Posted by **Mutley**[/QUOTE]

Nope, you're right. :-)

hetshup · July 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_sign-dotted-line-baby?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:dcc84095-4189-4d7d-8e41-9728cbc70f56Post:b66d017e-6ca6-4dd5-aee2-98cf89525b0f">Re: Sign the dotted line, baby.</a>:
[QUOTE]Let me clarify my reasoning. If I happened to inherit a lot of money (I'm talking multi-millions) and shouldst FI and I have kids, I die and he remarried, I would want that money to go to my children just in case he married a bsc beebee who would waste my ancestors money on purses and shoes. However, none of this is real and he would never remarry such a nitwit.
Posted by katanne9[/QUOTE]

Totally doable with legal docs.

We won't be getting one, neither of us really have assets at this time, so anything that was accumulated would be during the marriage. He stands to inherit more than me, and we will set up appropriate documents to make sure that goes to the kids.

Mariemoosh · July 2010

I agree with pre-nups where they protect the family's assets. But not in any case where it will leave the children and parent high and dry. If there is no crazy million dollar business then let it go.

leia1979 · July 2010

Marie, I both agree and disagree with your statement. Yes, any children resulting from the marriage and the caregiver of those children need to be supported. I think in most cases any prenup that would screw someone over like that would be considered unreasonable and would just get thrown out by a judge anyway. (I'm not a lawyer...it's just what I've read.)

Where I disagree is "If there is no crazy million dollar business then let it go." I lived at home for a long time, spent little, and have saved up a nest egg and contributed to retirement plans. BF had some years where he was not as responsible and racked up some debt, which he will be free of before we get engaged. As a result, I'm quite a bit ahead of him. If for some reason we got divorced, why should he get half of my money and retirement funds? There will be no children that need supporting. I think in that case, it's more fair for both people to leave with what they brought.

Obviously, it entirely depends on the couple and the situation. I just will feel a lot more comfortable by having that document in place on the slight chance that things go horribly wrong.

BCRockies · July 2010

We will be signing a pre-nup - it's something we've agreed on from the start. We both have assets that we want to protect. BF knows that I would never fight him about this and vice versa but it's a reassurance to us both.

Also, BF is debt-free at this current time and I have a bunch of student loans. I don't want him to be attached to my debts as they are mine.

Sign the dotted line, baby.

Re: Sign the dotted line, baby.

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