Birth rape?

Snippylynn · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:ce9c616a-d055-465f-9cbc-4a663dad5324">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Birth rape? : The particular situation I am talking about wasn't a necessary procedure. Sometimes, when a lazy doctor (not all doctors are lazy, but for those that are) wants to speed mom along, they will artifically rupture mom's membranes (break her water) to get the contractions going. In this situation, the doctor did this, without asking the woman if it was okay to do so or to even touch her, and continued the procedure as she screamed for him to stop and tried to crawl away from him. Other doctors may do something similar to check dialation- just walk in a shove a hand up the woman's vagina. This is inconsiderate at the least; dangerous at the most because it increases risk of infection once the woman's water is broken. ETA: I'm perfectly okay and accepting of doctors touching or doing medical procedures in times of emergency without asking if it's okay first. But I see no reason for a doctor to walk into a room where there is no emergency happening and just start doing something without asking- and even if he does that, he should immediately stop when the woman starts screaming in pain.
Posted by MoonlightSilver[/QUOTE]
I don't think the word you want there is lazy. Terrible bedside manner, definitely. Lazy, no.

As my GP said to me once, "Someone had to graduate last. Always do your diligence."

MoonlightSilver · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:30451065-5002-4fa3-aee2-bb4f601a393e">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]If you don't want something stuck in your vag, you probably shouldn't get pregnant. If you are telling your doctor no, you don't want something, in the middle of an experience like giving birth, I can honestly belive them saying that you aren't in the right state of mind. Which I can believe. Of course you are going to be in pain, of course you aren't going to want stuff done to you-- that's par for the course in giving birth. But to say you were raped? No way.
Posted by Snippylynn[/QUOTE]

<div>I think this type of thinking can put women in a very dangerous situation, where a doctor could do anything (actually rape a woman with his peniis) and get away with it because "Well you're crazy because you're in labor." </div><div>
</div><div>If the whole world took your idea to it's extreme, we could be in a lot of trouble.</div><div>
</div><div>Birth isn't usually the crazy situation we see on television or in movies. It's slow, with lots of sitting and laying down and walking around and waiting. There's a point where it usually gets difficult called transition (this is where mom's usually want to give up, quit, get more drugs, scream at their partner, etc) where the cervix is finishing opening and contractions are at their hardest. But that's usually only an hour at most. </div><div>
</div><div>The rest of the time? Women are still rational beings, and should be allowed to make their own medical decisions outside of emergency situations where they can't. </div>

Snippylynn · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:2c2c97a7-bc7f-44a8-8536-77534af2646b">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Birth rape? : <strong> I think this type of thinking can put women in a very dangerous situation, where a doctor could do anything (actually rape a woman with his peniis) and get away with it because "Well you're crazy because you're in labor." </strong>If the whole world took your idea to it's extreme, we could be in a lot of trouble. Birth isn't usually the crazy situation we see on television or in movies. It's slow, with lots of sitting and laying down and walking around and waiting. There's a point where it usually gets difficult called transition (this is where mom's usually want to give up, quit, get more drugs, scream at their partner, etc) where the cervix is finishing opening and contractions are at their hardest. But that's usually only an hour at most. The rest of the time? Women are still rational beings, and should be allowed to make their own medical decisions outside of emergency situations where they can't.
Posted by MoonlightSilver[/QUOTE]

Dude, are you kidding me? That's ridiculous and pretty much impossible considering how many people are in the room.

RupertPenny · May 2012

Moonlight, did your Gyn rape you with a speculum the last time you went for a pelvic exam? I think someone saying that is just as overblown as a woman claiming rape when their doctor sticks their hand in her vagina during birth. It's part of the process and to be expected.

[Deleted User] · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:2c2c97a7-bc7f-44a8-8536-77534af2646b">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Birth rape? : I think this type of thinking can put women in a very dangerous situation, where a doctor could do anything (actually rape a woman with his peniis) and get away with it because "Well you're crazy because you're in labor."Posted by MoonlightSilver[/QUOTE]

Oh, come on. This is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard in awhile.

MoonlightSilver · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:c4d50c76-f500-4c0b-966d-beb8c53b6d63">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Birth rape? : Oh come on now. That's just ridiculous and not at ALL what Snippy was saying.
Posted by cfaszews25[/QUOTE]

<div>I agree, which is why I said "taken to it's extreme." I'm sorry if I wasn't clear about that. There have been cases of doctors raping women during pelvic exams, and the doctor doesn't get prosecuted even though women came forward and alleged the rapes against him. I think sometimes we put doctors on a pedastal and believe they can do no wrong, when really they are just (very well educated) human beings like ourselves. </div><div>
</div><div>ETA: Sorry Snippy for going to the extreme with you post. I understand you didn't mean how I took your post. </div>

MoonlightSilver · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:f63a782b-a35a-4416-80ef-bfafa4cdb132">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]Moonlight, did your Gyn rape you with a speculum the last time you went for a pelvic exam? I think someone saying that is just as overblown as a woman claiming rape when their doctor sticks their hand in her vagina during birth. It's part of the process and to be expected.
Posted by RupertPenny[/QUOTE]

<div>No, I have never had a problem with my healthcare providers. </div>

Snippylynn · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:fa88134c-fcba-4cdf-b4e0-be52d11781c8">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Birth rape? : I agree, which is why I said "taken to it's extreme." I'm sorry if I wasn't clear about that. There have been cases of doctors raping women during pelvic exams, and the doctor doesn't get prosecuted even though women came forward and alleged the rapes against him. I think sometimes we put doctors on a pedastal and believe they can do no wrong, when really they are just (very well educated) human beings like ourselves.
Posted by MoonlightSilver[/QUOTE]
If they were <strong>raped</strong> then the doctor should have been prosecuted. But you have to admit, that the way the word gets tossed around by a lot of people, it diminishes the impact for people when they say they were raped.

strlzfan11 · May 2012

Does this conversation remind anyone else of "The Hand That Rocks the Cradle?"

chelseamb11 · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:e870ce6e-13ce-48ee-ab6b-85aa820e91b9">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]Does this conversation remind anyone else of "The Hand That Rocks the Cradle?"
Posted by strlzfan11[/QUOTE]

Yes

MoonlightSilver · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:3ae5fc62-1fd9-4e34-8c51-03e413f97b8a">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Birth rape? : If they were raped then the doctor should have been prosecuted. But you have to admit, that the way the word gets tossed around by a lot of people, it diminishes the impact for people when they say they were raped.
Posted by Snippylynn[/QUOTE]

<div>Yes, there absolutely are people who were in no way, shape or form raped who use and abuse the word, which harms people who actually were raped. </div><div>
</div><div>I just wanted to point out that you can also be raped during birth/labor, and we shouldn't discount those stories without first investigating the truth. </div><div>
</div><div>ETA: And it's probably my fault for not discussing the OP's linked article, but discussing other situations which are, as far as I can tell, worse and less necessary than what happened to the woman in that article. </div>

Snippylynn · May 2012

I never said you should discount them. I do, however, find it difficult to believe that it happens often, considering the circumstances around the entire process of birthing in a hospital, with all of the nurses, family members... hell, the general circus surrounding the mother at that time.

Honeslty, you are not coming across as an impartial or unbiased opinion. The references you gave earlier, and the statements you have made mark you as someone who would use this term, and who believes in it.

september's bride · May 2012

Maybe I'm too close to the situation,(being both in healthcare and pregnant) but propagating the hysteria, Moonlight, by saying that essentially doctors can potentially do anything while women are in labour because the woman may be in no shape to protest, is really just making things worse.

It gives doctors a bad name, and puts unneccessary fear into people's heads. The last thing you (general you) want someone to be feeling when they go into labour is that they have to watch their practitioner like a hawk, lest they be somehow inappropriately man-handled. There comes a time where you need to trust your medical team, and trust that they are making the right choices for you. It's also on you, as a patient, to be educated and to ensure that you have someone with you in situations where you can't be an advocate for yourself. There's a real sense of people being victims of healthcare, when in reality, your doctor works for you.

mica178 · May 2012

Oh yeeesh.

[Deleted User] · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:2eab5b3f-2a2d-44ca-a986-cdea65ac8ace">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Birth rape? : I just wanted to point out that you can also be raped during birth/labor, and we shouldn't discount those stories without first investigating the truth.
Posted by MoonlightSilver[/QUOTE]

Well, I mean, you can be raped anytime, anywhere, so of course no one is saying it never happens. But these circumstances are very different.

And like snippy said, are these doctors that you're talking about actually climbing up on a woman with her feet in the stirrups? How would they not get caught?

Snippylynn · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:3f8a5998-0045-4186-b014-46ad5372e2e5">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE] There's a real sense of people being victims of healthcare, when in reality, your doctor works for you.
Posted by september's bride[/QUOTE]
So completely agree with this. I'm lucky that my mom has been an RN for over 20 years, and has done her best to educate her children about the right kind of doctor. I was doubly lucky that the doctor's I've had were also very open in discussing how to find the right doctor.

Snippylynn · May 2012

Ah, Mica, I've been waaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiting for you!! (singsong voice)

RupertPenny · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:992fd847-13d4-4dd3-a43d-3d8d0149b954">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Birth rape? : No, I have never had a problem with my healthcare providers.
Posted by MoonlightSilver[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>Good for you. But if they didn't tell you before they inserted the speculum it would still count as "rape" in the way you defined it in previous posts.

</div>

mica178 · May 2012

Hi Snippy!

Como puedo ayudarte?

MoonlightSilver · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:05290042-29a5-4a8e-9eb9-d4d9484d0117">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]I Honeslty, you are not coming across as an impartial or unbiased opinion. The references you gave earlier, and the statements you have made mark you as someone who would use this term, and who believes in it.
Posted by Snippylynn[/QUOTE]

<div>You are absolutely correct. I have been researching and interested in this topic for years now, and it's something I consider myself an advocate for (ie, avoiding harmful situations in pregnancy/birth). I have tried, though, to only link to unbiased and scientific studies, reviews and information in my posts. I think it's best if everyone is fully informed and makes their own decisions. </div>

Snippylynn · May 2012

Cosa que c'e dire?

MoonlightSilver · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:3f8a5998-0045-4186-b014-46ad5372e2e5">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]Maybe I'm too close to the situation,(being both in healthcare and pregnant) but propagating the hysteria, Moonlight, by saying that essentially doctors can potentially do anything while women are in labour because the woman may be in no shape to protest, is really just making things worse. It gives doctors a bad name, and puts unneccessary fear into people's heads. The last thing you (general you) want someone to be feeling when they go into labour is that they have to watch their practitioner like a hawk, lest they be somehow inappropriately man-handled.<strong> There comes a time where you need to trust your medical team, and trust that they are making the right choices for you. It's also on you, as a patient, to be educated and to ensure that you have someone with you in situations where you can't be an advocate for yourself. There's a real sense of people being victims of healthcare, when in reality, your doctor works for you.</strong>
Posted by september's bride[/QUOTE]

<div>I agree with this 100% and hope every woman facing a pregnancy can get herself into this situation. Thank you for writing it out so nicely (and good luck with your pregnancy!). </div>

Snippylynn · May 2012

Btw September, I totally didn't recognize you at first.

calixtine · May 2012

This article reads just like those various warning emails my Mom forwards to me all the time so I have trouble believing this story. Those emails invariably end up being false and I usually establish that with 2 minutes of research online. I think it more likely that things didn't go as planned and the mom has some regret about that and is blaming the hospital.

And when I have kids, my birth plan will be as follows-
1.Go to hospital
2. Take Drugs
3. Have baby

caiti2u · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_birth-rape?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:75fcb7e0-2606-47c8-8ecc-bf1c4bdcd169Post:7d73fe78-15a2-4013-9190-3c5efce9d56d">Re: Birth rape?</a>:
[QUOTE]It also seems like this woman who claims that this happened to her had a C-section before. After one C-section, I know it's pretty much impossible to have a vaginal birth afterwards. At least, I feel like I've heard that.
Posted by cfaszews25[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>Haven't read through all the comments yet, but just wanted to say my mom's births went: c-section, vaginal (me :), c-section, vaginal... so not impossible, but likely does increases your chance of needing further c-sections after one has been done</div>

mica178 · May 2012

Moonlightsilver, if my eyes could roll into the back of my head, they would right now. Having rotated through a high-risk OB department while working with some of the meanest doctors I have ever met, I can tell you that no one is shoving his/her hand up anyone's vagina without warning (and, btw, when you are in labor and there are problems with the delivery, I think most common-sensical women are expecting hands to occasionally make it towards and into their vagina).

Ugh. Birth rape. The very words used together make me sick. Yes, a physician could rape a woman on the exam table or in birthing stirrups. But that's not what we're talking about. We are talking about women having too strong expectations about how an unpredictable event is going to happen. Yes, it's nice when everything goes as planned, but life (and especially childbirth) is messy. It's not rape when plans go awry and all the players adjust accordingly.

I agree that C-section is probably used too often in US births, but it's not as simple as saying that doctors want the fast way out of delivery. Most women look for physicians who have a low C-section rate, so an OB who is quick to cut is not going to get much business. There are other things at stake: families making the decision to have elective C-section either because they don't want to deliver vaginally or because the baby is known to be in breach, multiple babies (twins, etc.), fear of getting sued for complications if the baby might be in danger if left in the birth canal for too long, the list goes on, maternal exhaustion. But I have never heard a physician say that he/she was going to push a woman towards C-section because of a golf game.

baystateapple · May 2012

Man, I love it when Mica brings the verbal smackdown.

MattsPenguin · May 2012

Ditto, Bay.

Thanks, Dr. Mica!!

LaurenHH · May 2012

Is it not common for a male OB/GYN to have a female nurse present when they give pelvic exams? My doctor is male, and he always brings a nurse in with him, as a 3rd party to A) make sure nothing inappropriate goes on and

if a woman alleges something inappropriate happened, they can give a full account.

mica178 · May 2012

It's pretty much the standard of care for male doctors who are doing any female exam to have a chaperone in the room. Where I work, we encourage female doctors to have chaperones as well (FL is just really really litigious).

Birth rape?

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