Catholic Weddings

Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?

2

Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?

  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulment-process-am-i-being-uncooperative?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32794217-0e2a-4aa1-9be2-2ce2df6f12e2Post:6e1bf6f4-2b64-4c88-b0da-e632fc7837df">Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?</a>:
    [QUOTE]If my fiance had known at the beginning that I would need an annulment, we wouldn't have dated. I'm certain of this because 1) we had the conversation early on with his great-uncle who's a priest, his aunt who's a nun and his godmother who is Opus Dei to make sure that I was OK and 2) I wouldn't have dated him if I'd known at the beginning that I may have to go through this process. So actually I will blame the Catholic Church for having a subjective rule on the matter, which is different in the US than it is in other countries (which is probably what caused us to be under the assumption that I wouldn't need an annulment - his family is Filipino and our priest is Indian.) While I appreciate your opinion on the matter, Agape, our priest has counseled us that even if my annulment isn't granted, and we can't get married in the church, that he can live with a clear conscience for trying to abide by the church's law which is clearly the word of man, not of God. While he may not receive the sacrament, we could still raise our children Catholic, if we desire to do so. <strong>My savior, Jesus Christ, doesn't slam the door in the face of sinners, he forgives and welcomes with open arms anyone into his kingdom who believes and repents. That's part of the reason why I'm Christian and not Catholic (the rest of my family has converted over the last 15 years or so.) I have no worries for my own soul or for his - that's between us and God.</strong>
    Posted by maggieandrey[/QUOTE]

    Please don't disrespect our faith here. It isn't the Church's fault that the circumstances are the way they are. Many priests simply don't know what they are saying. Yes, that is not good, but that's the truth.

    The Catholic Church isn't slamming its door  in your face. It is trying to heal you from a previous marriage. If the timing isn't working, I am sorry. I know that it is horrible. But, do not blame the Church for this.

    The rules exist to protect us. We need this protection. It sanctifies us, it keeps our sacraments safe from misuse.

    I understand how harsh this is for you. This situation can make you feel unwelcome - but the Church wouldn't be trying to annul your marriage if it hated you.
  • Maggie, I hope you don't feel judged by anyone on this board, or feel like we've not been charitable.  I wish you the best

     

  • OP, I think it may be best to speak to the counselor to see what she would provide them with prior to consenting to their release. If she provides a brief summary of your counseling sessions (OP's husband emotionally abandoned the marriage prior to it legally ending and she was unable to be a productive citisen while married) thats fine, but detailed notes may be too invasive. 
     Daisypath Anniversary tickers
  • I'm not trying to be disrespectful, so I apologize if it came across that way. I'm trying to express my own faith since as many of you have pointed out I'm not catholic. It's not like we're intentionally trying to go against the church or be sinful. We went forward with the best information we had at the time and continue to do so.
    image 312 Invited
    image 182 Are ready to party!
    image 127 Will be missing out!
    image 3 Are MIA!
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulment-process-am-i-being-uncooperative?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32794217-0e2a-4aa1-9be2-2ce2df6f12e2Post:144a9f67-ea7d-4950-9a91-ce362b0698ef">Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Maggie, I hope you don't feel judged by anyone on this board, or feel like we've not been charitable.  I wish you the best
    Posted by Resa77[/QUOTE]

    I do feel very judged, but that's exactly why I came here. You ladies have a lot of great perspective that I don't have. So I hope you all realize that I appreciate that. If you think I'm being disagreeable, it's simply because I'm trying very hard to understand from a place that's completely different from yours.
    image 312 Invited
    image 182 Are ready to party!
    image 127 Will be missing out!
    image 3 Are MIA!
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • While I appreciate your opinion on the matter, Agape, our priest has counseled us that even if my annulment isn't granted, and we can't get married in the church, that he can live with a clear conscience for trying to abide by the church's law which is clearly the word of man, not of God. While he may not receive the sacrament, we could still raise our children Catholic, if we desire to do so.


    maggie, im sorry but you received REALLY bad advice from this priest.  yes, you can raise your children catholic, but your FI will be unable to participate in the sacraments if he is married outside of the church.  trying to get the annulment isnt the same thing as actually getting it.  good faith effort, unfortunately, doesnt make something right. 

    another thing - your annulment could very well go through, but it might not be utnil a few months after your intedned wedding date.  i would hope you would at least consider delaying your wedding rather than proceeding with a civil ceremony as that could actually complicate things further should your annulment indeed go through at a date later than december 29.
  • We did consider, and decided to get married on that date anyway, with the input and blessing of our parents. Trust me, it was not a decision we made lightly. And yes, we completely understand the implications if the annulment doesn't come through in time or at all.

    image 312 Invited
    image 182 Are ready to party!
    image 127 Will be missing out!
    image 3 Are MIA!
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulment-process-am-i-being-uncooperative?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32794217-0e2a-4aa1-9be2-2ce2df6f12e2Post:6e1bf6f4-2b64-4c88-b0da-e632fc7837df">Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?</a>:
    [QUOTE]If my fiance had known at the beginning that I would need an annulment, we wouldn't have dated. I'm certain of this because 1) we had the conversation early on with his great-uncle who's a priest, his aunt who's a nun and his godmother who is Opus Dei to make sure that I was OK and 2) I wouldn't have dated him if I'd known at the beginning that I may have to go through this process. So actually I will blame the Catholic Church for having a subjective rule on the matter, which is different in the US than it is in other countries (which is probably what caused us to be under the assumption that I wouldn't need an annulment - his family is Filipino and our priest is Indian.) While I appreciate your opinion on the matter, Agape, our priest has counseled us that even if my annulment isn't granted, and we can't get married in the church, that he can live with a clear conscience for trying to abide by the church's law which is clearly the word of man, not of God. While he may not receive the sacrament, we could still raise our children Catholic, if we desire to do so. My savior, Jesus Christ, doesn't slam the door in the face of sinners, he forgives and welcomes with open arms anyone into his kingdom who believes and repents. That's part of the reason why I'm Christian and not Catholic (the rest of my family has converted over the last 15 years or so.) I have no worries for my own soul or for his - that's between us and God.
    Posted by maggieandrey[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>So now, because you went ahead with the relationship anyway, its different? I don't get the difference. </div><div>
    </div><div>2nd, Jesus does forgive sinners, but they have to want to be forgiven. Instead, you are saying "we dont' care what you say about adulterers, Jesus.... we are going to do it anyway...and keep doing it, we're not sorry"</div><div>
    </div><div>The church is a loving mother who holds to these truths, including adultery. This is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. 

    </div>
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulment-process-am-i-being-uncooperative?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32794217-0e2a-4aa1-9be2-2ce2df6f12e2Post:09dde9bd-ca63-4597-8419-791b5382e31e">Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Calypso --  do you mean divorced at all, or just divorced but not annulled?  Because if you mean just divorced at all, that seems pretty harsh!  Good people get divorced, and it's not a sin.  It's not very charitable to stigmatize them.  Someone who is divorced but has an annulled marriage is free to marry, and is not less worthy of someone's love and devotion.
    Posted by Resa77[/QUOTE]

    <div>Actually, the action of divorce itself is a serious offense, a sin, depending on the circumstances. (If someone initiates a divorce with someone else who had no part in it, obviously, there is no sin on the latter person)</div><div>
    </div><div>It's not a perpetual state though. </div><div>
    </div><div><p style="color:#000000;font-family:Times;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;" class="MsoNormal"><a name="6U"></a>2384 <a name="6V" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/1/E1.HTM" rel="nofollow">Divorce</a> is a <a name="6Y" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/AC.HTM" rel="nofollow">grave</a> <a name="6Z" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/KR.HTM" rel="nofollow">offense</a> against the <a name="72" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/BT.HTM" rel="nofollow">natural</a> <a name="73" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/2W.HTM" rel="nofollow">law</a>. It <a name="75" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/3/NR.HTM" rel="nofollow">claims</a> to <a name="77" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/1/ET.HTM" rel="nofollow">break</a> the <a name="79" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/2/AI.HTM" rel="nofollow">contract</a>, to which the <a name="7D" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/CA.HTM" rel="nofollow">spouses</a> <a name="7E" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/F5.HTM" rel="nofollow">freely</a> <a name="7F"></a>consented, to <a name="7H" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/7H.HTM" rel="nofollow">live</a> with each other <a name="7L" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/3/7C.HTM" rel="nofollow">till</a> <a name="7M" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/2S.HTM" rel="nofollow">death</a>. <a name="7N" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/1/E1.HTM" rel="nofollow">Divorce</a> does <a name="7P" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/1/TD.HTM" rel="nofollow">injury</a> to the <a name="7S" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/58.HTM" rel="nofollow">covenant</a> of<a name="7U" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/3G.HTM" rel="nofollow">salvation</a>, of which <a name="7X" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/9P.HTM" rel="nofollow">sacramental</a> <a name="7Y" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/74.HTM" rel="nofollow">marriage</a> is the <a name="81" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/88.HTM" rel="nofollow">sign</a>. <a name="82" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/3/S.HTM" rel="nofollow">Contracting</a> a <a name="84" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/2V.HTM" rel="nofollow">new</a> <a name="85" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/AQ.HTM" rel="nofollow">union</a>, even if it is <a name="8A" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/KM.HTM" rel="nofollow">recognized</a> by <a name="8C" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/KE.HTM" rel="nofollow">civil</a> <a name="8D" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/2W.HTM" rel="nofollow">law</a>, <a name="8E" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/1/QL.HTM" rel="nofollow">adds</a> to the <a name="8H" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/1/5N.HTM" rel="nofollow">gravity</a> of the <a name="8K" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/3/9Q.HTM" rel="nofollow">rupture</a>: the <a name="8M" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/4/35.HTM" rel="nofollow">remarried</a> <a name="8N" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/X4.HTM" rel="nofollow">spouse</a> is then in a <a name="8S" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/1/1A.HTM" rel="nofollow">situation</a> of <a name="8U" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/B1.HTM" rel="nofollow">public</a>and <a name="8W" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/RU.HTM" rel="nofollow">permanent</a> <a name="8X" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/MH.HTM" rel="nofollow">adultery</a>:</p><p style="color:#000000;font-family:Times;font-size:medium;line-height:normal;margin-left:35.4pt;" class="MsoNormal">If a <a name="90" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/1/37.HTM" rel="nofollow">husband</a>, <a name="91" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/QN.HTM" rel="nofollow">separated</a> from his <a name="94" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/RN.HTM" rel="nofollow">wife</a>, <a name="95"></a>approaches another <a name="97" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/A5.HTM" rel="nofollow">woman</a>, he is an <a name="9B"></a>adulterer because he makes that <a name="9G" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/A5.HTM" rel="nofollow">woman</a> <a name="9H" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/Q7.HTM" rel="nofollow">commit</a> <a name="9I" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/MH.HTM" rel="nofollow">adultery</a>, and the <a name="9L" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/A5.HTM" rel="nofollow">woman</a> who <a name="9N" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/9C.HTM" rel="nofollow">lives</a> with him is an <a name="9S"></a>adulteress, because she has <a name="9W" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/1/M.HTM" rel="nofollow">drawn</a> another's <a name="9Z" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/1/37.HTM" rel="nofollow">husband</a> to herself.<font face="Verdana" size="2"><sup><a name="-2F5" href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P87.HTM#$2F5" rel="nofollow">177</a></sup></font></p></div>
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulment-process-am-i-being-uncooperative?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32794217-0e2a-4aa1-9be2-2ce2df6f12e2Post:b4985d13-fe64-49ee-be8a-ff03e13c6d32">Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative? : So now, because you went ahead with the relationship anyway, its different? I don't get the difference.  2nd, Jesus does forgive sinners, but they have to want to be forgiven. Instead, you are saying "we dont' care what you say about adulterers, Jesus.... we are going to do it anyway...and keep doing it, we're not sorry" The church is a loving mother who holds to these truths, including adultery. This is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. 
    Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

    The difference is that now we love each other. Now we can't imagine a life without one another. Now we want to have a family together. You're absolutely right, that once we found out what we're doing is "wrong" we should stop in our tracks and pretend like none of those conditions exist. However, the fact that we're discovering it's "wrong" two years later tells me that it's a subjective thing, not a hard and fast rule. Which is why my original question had to do with the annulment process, not about me marrying my fiance. I don't believe that I am sinning. My fiance knows that it's wrong to the letter of the catholic church law, but that's between him and God as well, is it not?
    image 312 Invited
    image 182 Are ready to party!
    image 127 Will be missing out!
    image 3 Are MIA!
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulment-process-am-i-being-uncooperative?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32794217-0e2a-4aa1-9be2-2ce2df6f12e2Post:9d527a14-ac9b-4659-b0a2-23952032d8cb">Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?</a>:
    [QUOTE]agape, i think we have to remember that OP is not catholic.  divorce and annulment and teh catholic view/position on both is often difficult to grasp and understand for catholics, let alone members of other faiths. clearly people struggle with this.  
    Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

    <div>I know this, which is why I'm thouroughly explaining the nature and seriousness of the situation.</div><div>
    </div>
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulment-process-am-i-being-uncooperative?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32794217-0e2a-4aa1-9be2-2ce2df6f12e2Post:54cd3937-eb52-4178-87a7-fca526f7b447">Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative? : Actually, the action of divorce itself is a serious offense, a sin, depending on the circumstances. (If someone initiates a divorce with someone else who had no part in it, obviously, there is no sin on the latter person) It's not a perpetual state though.  2384  Divorce  is a  grave   offense  against the  natural   law . It  claims  to  break  the  contract , to which the  spouses   freely   consented, to  live  with each other  till   death .  Divorce  does  injury  to the  covenant  of salvation , of which  sacramental   marriage  is the  sign .  Contracting  a  new   union , even if it is  recognized  by  civil   law ,  adds  to the  gravity  of the  rupture : the  remarried   spouse  is then in a  situation  of  public and  permanent   adultery : If a  husband ,  separated  from his  wife ,  approaches another  woman , he is an  adulterer because he makes that  woman   commit   adultery , and the  woman  who  lives  with him is an  adulteress, because she has  drawn  another's  husband  to herself. 177
    Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

    Since we're going to go back to the beginning and say that I shouldn't have started dating my fiance, can we also go back a little farther?

    My husband impregnates another woman. What am I supposed to do at that point in time, in the rules of the Catholic faith?
    image 312 Invited
    image 182 Are ready to party!
    image 127 Will be missing out!
    image 3 Are MIA!
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulment-process-am-i-being-uncooperative?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32794217-0e2a-4aa1-9be2-2ce2df6f12e2Post:acac7f20-9bef-41f5-8724-5d37b31be757">Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative? : The difference is that now we love each other. Now we can't imagine a life without one another. Now we want to have a family together. You're absolutely right, that once we found out what we're doing is "wrong" we should stop in our tracks and pretend like none of those conditions exist. However, the fact that we're discovering it's "wrong" two years later tells me that it's a subjective thing, not a hard and fast rule. Which is why my original question had to do with the annulment process, not about me marrying my fiance. I don't believe that I am sinning. My fiance knows that it's wrong to the letter of the catholic church law, but that's between him and God as well, is it not?
    Posted by maggieandrey[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>No, its absolutely NOT subjective. You unfortunately had a whole lot of uninformed people giving you advice. It is most definitely a hard and fast rule. Do not misunderstand this. This is why I'm explaining it so much to you so you understand WHY it is not subjective, and why it is objectively wrong. Adultery is a very serious sin. You made vows. You can think robbing a band is ok all you want, but that doesn't make it ok. </div><div>
    </div><div>its not the "letter" of the church law. It is adultery. One cannot be married to 2 people at once. </div><div>
    </div><div>And no, its not between him and God. Our sins, as personal as they are, effect the whole church, the whole world. One prayer, one small act of kindness has a ripple effect to the whole world, that it might give someone the courage to be a martyr 300 years from now.</div><div>
    </div><div>One sin, one turn away from God, (which essentially is something that harms US, if only spiritually), effects us, which effects other people around us.</div><div>
    </div><div>This is the communion of saints, and why we pray for each other. 

    </div>
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulment-process-am-i-being-uncooperative?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32794217-0e2a-4aa1-9be2-2ce2df6f12e2Post:291e6edd-56bd-4e81-851d-f2fe29342a85">Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative? : Since we're going to go back to the beginning and say that I shouldn't have started dating my fiance, can we also go back a little farther? My husband impregnates another woman. What am I supposed to do at that point in time, in the rules of the Catholic faith?
    Posted by maggieandrey[/QUOTE]

    <div>As has been explained before, the Catholic church takes marriage vows seriously. The fact that your husband makes a free choice to commit adultery does not somehow "undo" yours or his vows. The church encourages reconciliation. If this cannot be accomplished, then separation may be tolerated. If somehow you believe that there was impediments at the time of vows, then you can have your marriage investigated to see if its valid. </div>
  • Thank you very much for your explanations, I truly appreciate it, and I know that I'm dumb when it comes to this kind of stuff and this was quite enlightening for me.

    That being said, I will continue to follow the advice of the people I know personally and trust when it comes to matters of our faith. I needed some other perspectives and you all definitely gave me that.
    image 312 Invited
    image 182 Are ready to party!
    image 127 Will be missing out!
    image 3 Are MIA!
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • lalaith50lalaith50 member
    1000 Comments Third Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited September 2012
    OP- I'm very glad to hear it sounds like you have decided to send the documents in. I'm sorry you have received some probably unexpected critisicm in this thread, especially since it sounds like you are well aware of how serious the Catholic Church views this, and I respect you for at least trying to follow what the Church wants in this very difficult and unfortunate situation simply out of respect for your FI's beliefs, especially since you aren't even a member of the Catholic Church. I wish you the best and I hope it all works out for you!

    Like others have said, I also hope that you reconsider your back-up plan, but I understand if you don't.

    (ETA: by "understand," I'm not condoning it if you don't reconsider, but I think I have a vague idea of the difficulties involved in reconsidering, combined with the misinformation and even poor advice I think you have received, combined with the current support of your families, therefore I understand.)
    Anniversary
  • The only thing I will add is that divorce in itself is not ALWAYS a sin.

    There are cases where for a woman or man's safety or his or her children's safety, mere separation is not enough.  He or she needs a legal divorce to be able to separate his or herself and property, along with the custody of the children.

    Of course it's just a case by case basis, and a person needs to talk to his or her priest about it.


    OP, I hope things go well for you, and I hope you and your husband get married in the Catholic Church.

    SaveSave
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulment-process-am-i-being-uncooperative?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32794217-0e2a-4aa1-9be2-2ce2df6f12e2Post:0d5d2df7-046d-4a90-b957-4e65e343c3d1">Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?</a>:
    [QUOTE]But, basically, what we're saying here, is that when a Catholic finds out that someone they are interested in has been married before, they need to make sure they either had an annulment, or force them to go through the annulment process BEFORE going on a date with them. I see how that works, but would agree that it would likely not happen in "real life", even if it is the proper way to go about it. i was raised to not even bother dating people who were divorced.  thus, you avoid this issue entirely.  of course, as you get older it gets more difficult.
    Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]
    Right but as in the case of my husband, he was divorced by the state.  He was not catholic and married by a rabbi.  As a previous poster said why would he get his marriage anulled by the catholic church if he is not married.  So, you are saying if you met a non-catholic who had been married before you would ask him to get a cathloic anullment before you go on a date with him? 
    Anniversary
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulment-process-am-i-being-uncooperative?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32794217-0e2a-4aa1-9be2-2ce2df6f12e2Post:ff3e3500-86bc-497e-8294-a5c17dd89a99">Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Whi le I appreciate your opinion on the matter, Agape, our priest has counseled us that even if my annulment isn't granted, and we can't get married in the church, that he can live with a clear conscience for trying to abide by the church's law which is clearly the word of man, not of God. While he may not receive the sacrament, we could still raise our children Catholic, if we desire to do so. maggie, im sorry but you received REALLY bad advice from this priest.  yes, you can raise your children catholic, but your FI will be unable to participate in the sacraments if he is married outside of the church. 
    Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]
    That's exactly what she said he is unable to recieve sacarament but children can still be raised catholic
    Anniversary
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulment-process-am-i-being-uncooperative?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32794217-0e2a-4aa1-9be2-2ce2df6f12e2Post:a1d0afd6-2ad4-4adc-bca3-0a15f0209084">Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative? : Right but as in the case of my husband, he was divorced by the state.  He was not catholic and married by a rabbi.  As a previous poster said why would he get his marriage anulled by the catholic church if he is not married.  So, you are saying if you met a non-catholic who had been married before you would ask him to get a cathloic anullment before you go on a date with him? 
    Posted by pretzelgrrl[/QUOTE]

    <div>Yes. He is STILL MARRIED. I would not date a married man. </div>
  • [QUOTE] Yes. He is STILL MARRIED. I would not date a married man. 
    Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]
    But<strong> <em>you</em></strong> are far more educated about the intricacies of not only Canon Law, but even what makes a valid marriage and why that is important. Far more aware than probably 99.99% of baptized Catholics. So, maybe you should be less harsh and assuming of what knowledge other people may or may not have had when making their decisions to date a certain person.
    Anniversary
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulment-process-am-i-being-uncooperative?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32794217-0e2a-4aa1-9be2-2ce2df6f12e2Post:aec1e0d8-4392-491f-8f03-9578c325289d">Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?</a>:
    [QUOTE]But you  are far more educated about the intricacies of not only Canon Law, but even what makes a valid marriage and why that is important. Far more aware than probably 99.99% of baptized Catholics. So, maybe you should be less harsh and assuming of what knowledge other people may or may not have had when making their decisions to date a certain person.
    Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]

    <div>I have NOT been "harsh" In fact, I've spelled out things quite well because I'm assuming people do not know it. </div><div>
    </div><div>
    </div>
  • Carrie, how can divorce be an offense when one cannot even begin the annulment process without first getting divorced? That is confusing...

     

  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulment-process-am-i-being-uncooperative?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32794217-0e2a-4aa1-9be2-2ce2df6f12e2Post:6c923534-7daf-40be-a850-ce4fe9ff48e5">Re:Annulment process am I being uncooperative?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Carrie, how can divorce be an offense when one cannot even begin the annulment process without first getting divorced? That is confusing...
    Posted by Resa77[/QUOTE]

    <div>One doesn't have to do with the other.  It's really just as the quote from the catechism said how its an offense.</div><div>
    </div><div>If a couple is having difficulties of some kind, and just don't feel like working them out, then a person who initiates a divorce in this instance is committing a serious offense against the covenant. </div><div>
    </div><div>There are a million scenarios that make someone less culpable, or not at all depending on the circumstances. But it is incorrect to say carte blanche that "divorce is not a sin".</div><div>
    </div><div>
    </div><div>
    </div>
  • Right but as in the case of my husband, he was divorced by the state. He was not catholic and married by a rabbi. As a previous poster said why would he get his marriage anulled by the catholic church if he is not married. So, you are saying if you met a non-catholic who had been married before you would ask him to get a cathloic anullment before you go on a date with him?

    no, because i personally would not date someone divorced nor would i date someone jewish either.  (and this is NOT to say i have something against jewish people or people of other faiths)  all but one of my BF's have been catholic, and that one relationship did end because of the difference in our faiths (he flat out told me he'd never marry in a catholic church and wanted no part of the faith).  for me, marrying someone catholic was very important to me - i wanted to have the same faith as my spouse as i felt it would make it easier if and when children came long.  thus, that is why i didnt waste time with peopel who were not catholic.

    similarly, i always avoided dating anyone with kids because i didnt want to deal with someone else's child.  these are just personal preferences, however.  the church has nothing against dating someone with a child (example, someone widowed).  Its just personally not somethign i ever wanted to get tangled up in.


  • As a previous poster said why would he get his marriage anulled by the catholic church if he is not married.

    i neglected to answer this part.  in this instance, he wouldnt get an annulment unless he was seeking to marry in the catholic church.  he would need it because the catholic church considers marriages in other faiths as valid.  i dont know what the jewish faith requirements are if he sought a second marriage in the jewish faith.
  • Learning a lot today! If a non- Catholic, who never intends to become Catholic was legally married (state) how would they ever begin to approach a Catholic annulment? (Assuming the divorcee is not in any kind of relationship or potential relationship with a Catholic.) The Church would clearly try and have them convert to Catholicism. Would the Church ever grant an annulment to a non-Catholic "just because"? Or "just in case" the divorcee ever wanted to marry a Catholic down the road?

    I just ask because I agree that the first marriage needs to be 100% absolved before entering a new relationship, but for those willing to enter relationships or marriages with divorced, non-Catholics, how would this be approached?

    My H and I are both Catholic abd were never married before so this was never a question, but from all of the reading I did above, I still feel like something is missing.
  • schlage, its probably never really been addressed because at one time the church didnt even allow mixed marriages to begin with.  catholics married catholics.  period.  i believe at one time you were also excommunicated if you got divorced.   if you wanted to marry someone of another faith it wasnt going to happen (at least in the catholic church).  then once they were allowed, they were very frowned upon, and the ceremonies often had to take place on the side altar/rectory/some other place besides the main altar as that is how teh church showed displeasure with the mixed marriage.
  • In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_annulment-process-am-i-being-uncooperative?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:32794217-0e2a-4aa1-9be2-2ce2df6f12e2Post:8169b709-edbd-47c1-9107-b070173228f2">Re: Annulment process - am I being uncooperative?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Learning a lot today! If a non- Catholic, who never intends to become Catholic was legally married (state) how would they ever begin to approach a Catholic annulment? (Assuming the divorcee is not in any kind of relationship or potential relationship with a Catholic.) The Church would clearly try and have them convert to Catholicism. Would the Church ever grant an annulment to a non-Catholic "just because"? Or "just in case" the divorcee ever wanted to marry a Catholic down the road? I just ask because I agree that the first marriage needs to be 100% absolved before entering a new relationship, but for those willing to enter relationships or marriages with divorced, non-Catholics, how would this be approached? My H and I are both Catholic abd were never married before so this was never a question, but from all of the reading I did above, I still feel like something is missing.
    Posted by schlagetermari[/QUOTE]

    <div>No, the catholic church would not "cleary try and convert them". Why is this assumed?</div><div>
    </div><div>Yes, a non-catholic can petition a tribunal for an investigation. </div>
  • I think annulments are also granted civilly.  Obviously these are not considered equivalent to an annulment through the church, but that's how so many celebrities get 'em, as I understand.

    But yeah, in most cases, if a legal divorce is "good enough," I can see where one wouldn't want to also go through an annulment.
    Anniversary

    image

    image

This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards