Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day

GoodLuckBear14 · April 2013

Muppet - if you want to stand up and defend Kristan's right to speak her opinon, great. It is not necessary, but great.

If you are telling others not to question the core of what she believes, that is not right - and that is what you are doing here.

MuppetFan · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:f03c0eeb-2035-4127-86d7-bd2aec6e98ff">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]Muppet - if you want to stand up and defend Kristan's right to speak her opinon, great. It is not necessary, but great. If you are telling others not to question the core of what she believes, that is not right - and that is what you are doing here.
Posted by GoodLuckBear14[/QUOTE]

I'm asking for people to treat her with respect.

GoodLuckBear14 · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:5e475209-e34a-452b-8698-ad4bb34d1269">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day : I'm asking for people to treat her with respect.
Posted by MuppetFan[/QUOTE]

Where are people disrespecting her and not just questioning her beliefs?

daria24 · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:8658fe87-c1b5-45bc-813a-a3e2db194ab0">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day : That is actually not my point, GLB. <strong>My point was that regardless of what I believe what marriage is or isn't, I still think that some common respect and decency should be extended to people regardless of whether or not you agree with their relationship.</strong> What if the couple in the post were a straight Romeo & Juliet of sorts? She is sick and he wants to visit her, but her family doesn't approve of them dating or being engaged. This happened (and happens) to couples of the same sex more frequently, and that is incredibly disappointing. Bottom line: Regardless of marital status, if someone in your family is dying and they have a loved one who they want by their side, that should trump any proof of marriage.
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>Which is great and all. But not everyone acts like a decent human being. So that's where the law is supposed to step in to make sure people do the right thing. </div>

KnotJackie · April 2013

Hi ladies,

This is a very hot topic that I know everyone has a strong, personal opinion about.

I don't mean to state the obvious here, but we all need to know and understand that we are not going to agree with one another, and it is fine for others to share their opinions.

No one's thoughts are right, and no one's thoughts are wrong. Every one is entitled to their own feelings on this topic.

Please do not start attacking one another over opinions. Do not start calling each other out, begin to bully, or target anyone based on their beliefs.

Since the new TOS is not up yet, please consider this a warning and be wary of your responses.

Again, I respect everyone's opinions, I just do not support attacking.

Thanks,
Jackie

GoodLuckBear14 · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:8658fe87-c1b5-45bc-813a-a3e2db194ab0">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day : That is actually not my point, GLB. My point was that regardless of what I believe what marriage is or isn't, I still think that some common respect and decency should be extended to people regardless of whether or not you agree with their relationship. What if the couple in the post were a straight Romeo & Juliet of sorts? She is sick and he wants to visit her, but her family doesn't approve of them dating or being engaged. This happened (and happens) to couples of the same sex more frequently, and that is incredibly disappointing. Bottom line: Regardless of marital status, if someone in your family is dying and they have a loved one who they want by their side, that should trump any proof of marriage.
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

Common respect and decency do not always happen. Should it? Of course. What you are asking for though is for everyone in the real world to play nice with eachother. Never going to happen.

There is a legal status of "next of kin" for a reason. Hospitals do not have the time to sort through who makes decisions if a patient cannot. There may be space restrictions (like in an ICU) and the blood family would get to decide who is allowed in if the patient cannot communicate a wish. The patient can take all of the steps necessary and still have the court reverse it unless there is a spousal relationship.

lyndausvi · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:64113568-2b8f-4879-9b94-7cdd505bac9c">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day : Which is great and all. But not everyone acts like a decent human being. So that's where the law is supposed to step in to make sure people do the right thing.
Posted by daria24[/QUOTE]

<div>YEP.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>My uncle tried to keep my Nana (grandfather's gf) from my grandfather. They had lived together for 30 years. He didn't agree with the arrangement. Luckily granddad was smart enough to have my dad as the POA (medically and legally). Add in my other uncle who thought of Nana as family, she was able to be with him. </div><div>
</div><div>Never spoke to my uncle again because of his actions.</div>

GoodLuckBear14 · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:6cdfd742-74d4-4683-b486-e729b7b2a8e4">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day : Understood. And all I'm trying to say is that in the absence of a law right now and in the midst of very sensitive discussions, there is some common decency left. In the midst of all the hate, there is still some good. And I know many families who show the appropriate respect and charity while still being true to their personal convictions.
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

I don't doubt there are families out there who show respect and charity. We don't need laws to protect them. We need them to protect the people who have families like my friend's neighbor. This is why marriage equality is so bloody important to a lot of people and why people get so upset every time you talk about your personal family situation. You have a good family. Not everyone does so why should they be penalized?

winelover123 · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:8ae05370-1ae7-4b2c-aa0d-170b46adcd1a">Re:Follow up to the</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re:Follow up to the : I agree with this. I have had many conversations with Kristan about this and we are at major opposite ends of the spectrum religiously and politically. And while I appreciate that she included her aunt's partner and would never do the things that a lot of people do, it isn't enough. It is perfectly acceptable to say "my religious beliefs don't allow me to support gay people, and in my religion it is an abomination and a huge sin". I may not agree, but it's your religious beliefs and everyone is entitled to them. <strong> It's NOT perfectly acceptable to vote "no" on a law that would allow same sex marriage because it offends your religious beliefs. Religion should never be the reason someone denies someone else civil rights</strong>.
Posted by cmgilpin[/QUOTE]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I just want to tell you cmgilpin, that this was very well said.

QueerFemme · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:2c191237-25da-4cc2-b601-47c9ad878898">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]Stage, the answers to 1 and 2 are yes. You are making a bold jump to 3 and drawing a conclusion that is judgmental and inconsistent. I told Linger that I wasn't going to engage her questions because there is not a foundation of respect in order to have a fruitful discussion. Cmgilpin and I have had many chats off TK and we both respect the fact that we are set in our ways. <strong>And she is asking me questions about my personal faith because she wants to understand (cmgilpin, correct me if I misspoke</strong>). GLB disagrees with me nd I wanted to clear up what my intent was. Your statements crossed the line. Either you deleted your first post, or it was removed by someone with that authority bc they agreed that it was a personal attack. You attacked my beliefs, which are a big part of my character.
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

I do and have asked you questions to try to understand your personal faith. It is interesting and curious to me, but those questions are mostly unrelated to the gay marriage debate. I am curious about how your faith guides you, and in general, I am curious about religion and belief systems that are based on religion.

I don't necessarily ask a question to understand where you are coming from on the gay marriage topic. I know your faith guides your principles. I respect YOU as a person, and I respect your right to practice your faith in a way that seems right for you. I don't necessarily respect your right to express those beliefs in the voting booth.

I hope that makes sense.

GoodLuckBear14 · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:2c191237-25da-4cc2-b601-47c9ad878898">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]Stage, the answers to 1 and 2 are yes. You are making a bold jump to 3 and drawing a conclusion that is judgmental and inconsistent. I told Linger that I wasn't going to engage her questions because there is not a foundation of respect in order to have a fruitful discussion. Cmgilpin and I have had many chats off TK and we both respect the fact that we are set in our ways. And she is asking me questions about my personal faith because she wants to understand (cmgilpin, correct me if I misspoke). <strong>GLB disagrees with me nd I wanted to clear up what my intent was.</strong> Your statements crossed the line. Either you deleted your first post, or it was removed by someone with that authority bc they agreed that it was a personal attack. You attacked my beliefs, which are a big part of my character.
Posted by TXKristan[/QUOTE]

I still do not understand how you are a person who is clearly accepting and comes from a family that is clearly accepting of your family member who is in a same-sex relationship, yet in the same breath speak out against granting your aunt and her partner the right to marry. That honestly does not compute.

MuppetFan · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:bbc131ce-c4db-4330-8838-68dd35948090">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm sorry, but seeing as marriage is the only thing is this country of ours that gives you TRUE POA that can stand against Next of Kin, the idea of being against marriage equality is confounding, to put it nicely. So sure, we could all sit around and try to find a way to rewrite a butt-ton of laws about true POA, and who gets hospital visitation rights, and when Next of Kin is trumped, and so on and so fourth. Or We could make marriage equal and the entire thing would be done. Churches could still deny weddings to whomever they want, as is their right, and all the discrimination of DOMA would be gone. If you can seriously vote against that, then yes, I do think you're a terrible person, whoever you are, regardless who that is. You're a terrible person and you lose a lot of respect in my eyes.
Posted by Harry87[/QUOTE]

A Catholic once told me that everyone should be equal under the law. God will do the judging.

In the end, there is a God or there isn't. If there is a God, it may be that only one faith got it "Right" or none. Who's to say? No state should be able to define that and religion doesn't have a place in the legal system.

I do hope that the supreme court does this issue justice. I also feel that the people are becoming increasingly accepting and that this is going to come up and be approved in more state elections.

Peledreamsofrain · April 2013

Wow, how did I miss this thread?

I have to speak for Kristan's character here. Like cmg, I've spoken with her a lot outside of TK. I have exact polar opposite views as her on this issue, but per our discussions, I really have a lot of respect for her. She doesn't have the same 'all or nothing' views that I would look for in a 'bigot'.

I've never run into someone that so intelligently talks about faith issues. I'm a staunch Agnostic, and usually can't stand conversations on religion with deeply religious people; but Kristan is a very realistic, frank, and non-hateful person.

I really REALLY urge you to talk to Kristan more.

melissanjoe21 · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:bbc131ce-c4db-4330-8838-68dd35948090">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm sorry, but seeing as marriage is the only thing is this country of ours that gives you TRUE POA that can stand against Next of Kin, the idea of being against marriage equality is confounding, to put it nicely. So sure, we could all sit around and try to find a way to rewrite a butt-ton of laws about true POA, and who gets hospital visitation rights, and when Next of Kin is trumped, and so on and so fourth. Or We could make marriage equal and the entire thing would be done. Churches could still deny weddings to whomever they want, as is their right, and all the discrimination of DOMA would be gone. If you can seriously vote against that, then yes, I do think you're a terrible person, whoever you are, regardless who that is. You're a terrible person and you lose a lot of respect in my eyes.
Posted by Harry87[/QUOTE]

Pretty much how I feel.

GoodLuckBear14 · April 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_follow-up-to-the-political-question-post-from-the-other-day?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:ed31b8ea-9664-4c7d-9b6b-77fdb4805f45Post:65cde35c-23f2-44e5-bb30-1215951a81da">Re: Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day</a>:
[QUOTE]Wow, how did I miss this thread? I have to speak for Kristan's character here. Like cmg, I've spoken with her a lot outside of TK. I have exact polar opposite views as her on this issue, but per our discussions, I really have a lot of respect for her. She doesn't have the same 'all or nothing' views that I would look for in a 'bigot'. I've never run into someone that so intelligently talks about faith issues. I'm a staunch Agnostic, and usually can't stand conversations on religion with deeply religious people; but <strong>Kristan is a</strong> very realistic, frank, and <strong>non-hateful person.</strong> I really REALLY urge you to talk to Kristan more.
Posted by Peledreamsofrain[/QUOTE]

This is precisely why I do not understand her position here.

GoodLuckBear14 · April 2013

Kristan - ygpm

nextrightthing · April 2013

I wish I hadn't missed this post. I get that people have religious beliefs that they believe don't support marriage equality. What I don't get is why anyone believes their religious beliefs should determine the state of the law. It doesn't comport with the foundation of our system, which is that we have a secular democracy.

Kristan, I admire you for voicing unpopular opinions here. That takes balls. That being said, I can respect your beliefs until the cows come home (as my mother would say), but it is much more difficult for me to respect the belief (of you or anyone) that any set of religious beliefs beliefs should determine what the law says. That's the part that I just can't figure out.

There are religions that don't allow people to eat pork - should federal law say that pork shouldn't be allowed? There are religions that keep kosher - should federal law mandate kosher? The catholic church requires confession - should federal law mandate confession? Should the gov't criminalize premarital sex?

No church has to perform a gay couple's marriage unless they choose to. That doesn't mean federal and state law should reflect what those religions believe.

end rant.

lyndausvi · April 2013

Krsitan - sending thoughts and prayers to you.

My parents think exactly like Krsitan. To a tee. I still love them and respect them, just like I respect Krsitan. That doesn't mean the way they vote does not piss me off.

KnotIrene · April 2013

I think this thread has gone on long enough and hope you will let this subject drop. I'm going to close this thread and pray that you will live with that and not open a new one. I'd really appreciate that.

Follow up to the "Political question" post from the other day

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