Etiquette for Guests who write in a date...when one wasn't invited..

cbatt · June 2013

Hey guys I need some help. I haven't even sent invitations but I have several of FI's friends that I know have girlfriends or date a lot, but they are either new relationships, or a situation where we don't even know the GF. A close friend of ours is getting married this wknd and is inviting lots of the same people and told us that at least 3 of them wrote in their girlfriends, even though they weren't invited with a guest.

My FI and I have tried very hard to stick to this rule for inviting dates: A guest gets a date IF: they are married, engaged/living together, bride and groom know the SO well, or a situation where it would be very awkward not to invite the date. Based on that rule, only ONE person on our entire list is getting 'and guest.' Everyone else who gets a date falls into one of those categories and is invited by name.

Also keep in mind my FI and I are in the first round of our friends to get married, so a lot of these boys don't understand that an invitation that says Mr. John Smith does not mean Mr. John Smith and whatever girl I'm dating right now. I keep saying to FI that once we see the final numbers, if we have room, let it go. But if it's putting us over budget or close to it, we need to call and explain the situation. He disagrees.

Help!

thejucheidea · June 2013

This is not going to go over well for you.

cbatt · June 2013

Haha I know...I'm trying not to get too hung up on it but I just find it hard to believe that people do that!

hardlyhannah · June 2013

If they consider themselves to be in a relationship you need to invite the SO

cbatt · June 2013

Thanks for the feedback! I don't know that I can go back and invite anyone extra since my invites and addresses are already printed but I'll just let it slide if they write it in!

shaylagirl · June 2013

...I can't imagine inviting someone to my wedding without knowing if they're in a serious relationship or not.

Granted, ours is a small affair (80 people or less including children), but...

Yeah, I've got nothing.

Because, if I'd been dating FI and he got an invite to a wedding and there was no "guest" or "Shaylagirl" on the invite, I wouldn't just assume I was invited (because etiquette says I wasn't invited!), and FI wouldn't go without me, so he'd be a decline to your wedding.

There's no way to get new envelopes done to fix it? Even an insert into the invites? Something? I know it's costly, but, a quick glance at TK's etiquette board would have quickly let you know that's a faux paux.

Edited because I'm confusing myself now.

Your original post says this:
Hey guys I need some help. I haven't even sent invitations but I have several of FI's friends that I know have girlfriends or date a lot, but they are either new relationships, or a situation where we don't even know the GF. A close friend of ours is getting married this wknd and is inviting lots of the same people and told us that at least 3 of them wrote in their girlfriends, even though they weren't invited with a guest.

My FI and I have tried very hard to stick to this rule for inviting dates: A guest gets a date IF: they are married, engaged/living together, bride and groom know the SO well, or a situation where it would be very awkward not to invite the date. Based on that rule, only ONE person on our entire list is getting 'and guest.' Everyone else who gets a date falls into one of those categories and is invited by name.

So, what you're saying is you KNOW some of your friends are dating, but because they're not living together or you don't know their SO well, they're not invited?

thejucheidea · June 2013

cbatt said:

Haha I know...I'm trying not to get too hung up on it but I just find it hard to believe that people do that!

No, I was saying that your massive etiquette faux pas isn't going to go over well for you. It would be better for you to not post this in Etiquette if you want to get out alive.

SewInLoveWithDMB · June 2013

I think anyone in a relationship should get a +1. It's better to find out the name of the person rather than writing "and Guest." I actually sometimes feel "and Guest" is degrading for those that are not in a relationship, but it depends on the person. There are some people who have been single for 10+ years, so why all of a sudden for one event will they find a "guest" (who presumably is a "real" relationship) for a wedding? Or, someone who is recently widowed, and obviously not dating anyone new. I feel it can be like rubbing salt into a wound...especially cause you are inviting them to your WEDDING and then pointing out that they don't have someone other than a "guest."

However..."and Guest" is probably always correct, BUT I think there are SOME occasions where it is not necessary. For example: a work group. 5 coworkers invited, 2 of them married. I would imagine in this situation, it would be ok to invite only the 5 coworkers and no +1's for any of them. Those 5 will know each other, come as a group and would be fine together. The 2 husbands stay at home, the other 3 don't need to find dates.

Yes, I do see that this could also be wrong - but - in my mind, it is an example of how 5 invites are 5 invites and not 10. (And, in that case, the 5 coworkers are close seeing each other each day, but no one knows their significant others).

If it is 5 guests who won't know anybody else and are not part of a group...then they should be invited with dates.

And no, I am not doing the above situation, but I could understand if it happened. If I were invited to an event under those circumstances without FI, I would have no problem whatsoever.

So, OP, I think if you know a SO exists, they should be invited. If there is no SO and you've never met them (because they don't exist) and that person will know enough other people at the event, although possibly perceived as rude, it could be "ok" to only invite the person and not a +1. But don't ignore actual relationships - I neither lived with FI nor was engaged for 7 years and would have been annoyed if people had just "forgotten" about me.

SewInLoveWithDMB · June 2013

Still wouldn't bother me. In fact, we get invited to a whole lot of weddings that half of us missing one would actually be a positive. Although I mentioned the example and would not do it myself (heck, I'm really not inviting coworkers), I would in no way be offended if I was invited to an event as a group and my FI didn't know anyone else in that group. We are both secure enough in events to not need each other.

Also, I remember seeing that situation somewhere while planning which is why I mentioned it - some magazine article, knot forum, planning book, etc. So, someone else somewhere also deemed it "ok" even though it might not be the "best" idea. You don't have to do it. I won't. But somewhere out there, one could, and theoretically, all adults should be fine...or just decline.

09McSteph03 · June 2013

@cooper - I think to be so livid that you read the couple the riot act and sever all ties is a bit extreme.

In this house, we simply decline and if asked "why" and the most I will say is "because that is a Saturday evening and we enjoy spending them together rather than separate". Hopefully the point is made, but it's certainly not something that I have ever been livid or ripped someone a new one for. I think this topic gets hashed, scored and baked to death on TK and it seems peeps just tend to jump foaming at the mouth.

Etiquette gets thrown to the wind in several ways and we all fall somewhere on the spectrum on this topic and many others. I seriously cannot see myself saying "hey co-worker, You didn't invite my FI to your wedding too so you and I can no longer say good morning to each other. Your mistake has cost you".

09McSteph03 · June 2013

@cooper - understood. I can appreciate where you are coming from. I didn't realize culture was at play but you are right, the rule does still stand. I am not arguing the rule itself, just reaction to others no following.

Old World Eurpoean - where is your family from?

SewInLoveWithDMB · June 2013

coopergirl15 said:

@Sew, it is awesome that you are ok with being invited solo, but etiquette-wise being comfortable attending an event without your SO is entirely different from one of you being excluded. Deliberately excluding one half of a married couple is a figurative slap in the face and a huge faux pas. I don't know where you read that such an invite would be ok, but the only two sources you can trust as far as etiquette are Emily Post and Miss Manners. Never in either etiquette expert's authoritative books do they say that inviting only one spouse is ok. The Knot and other resources are a part of the Wedding Industrial Complex and the contributors are journalists, not etiquette experts. For lack of a more appropriate phrase, they don't know shit. I am also extremely comfortable attending events without my FI. But if he declines the invitation, that's his business; I would go and enjoy myself solo. Were he never invited at all to an event that by its very nature specifies he should be invited with me (eg a wedding, family holiday party/reunion, cocktail party, company party) that is a grave insult. I'm glad you would be willing to let it slide if someone did this to you. In my social circle and in most circles, there is no option but to decline and sever communication with someone who pulls a faux pas of this degree. I'm not doing excluding my guest's spouses and I'm glad you're not either.

Quick google search brought up this, and I have never frequented the Wedding Bee boards. Mrs. Cupcake could be wrong as well, but at least it shows I'm not 100% crazy. It could be considered incorrect, and I'm a-ok with that. But, it is a situation I can see happening.

http://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/not-inviting-husbandswives-as-1s#axzz2W9RAv4mE

SewInLoveWithDMB · June 2013

.

hardlyhannah · June 2013

I'm not saying I wouldn't be hurt if FI was invited and I wasn't, but I think it's a stupid thing to lose a friend over. In the grand scheme of things, that's really not the worst thing that could happen.

In fact, we were tier-invited to one of our friends wedding (invited to ceremony, not to dinner, and then to the dancing reception). It was bullshit, and I 100% side eyed it, but we went and had fun dancing with our other friends. It wasn't the end of the world, or the friendship.

libby18bell · June 2013

Just so I am correct, Cooper, not every one of your guests will be receiving a +1? In my opinion that is extremely rude. We are providing every one of our guests the option to bring a date. With regards to the dating status, we have one guy friend that depending on the day will depend on whether he is acknowledging he has a g/f or not. That is up to the two of them. He is being included with a "and guest" so it's his choice if he wants to bring her or not.

libby18bell · June 2013

Also to shove what you perceive as etiquette and manners in another person's face as a sign of privilege and what not, is actually rude. Manners are to make people feel comfortable, not to make someone feel beneath them.

shaylagirl · June 2013

coopergirl15 said:

All our guests are getting plus ones, except for the ones I've spoken with who are truly single and have specifically told me they do not want to bring a date. While my extended family subscribes to excluding dating couples (and I have been a victim of that antiquated etiquette rule myself in years past) I do not for the reasons you desribed above. What does dating status have to do with the original topic, which was whether it is ok to not invite one half of a married couple?

Actually, the original was about dating couples, and the OP's rule:
"A guest gets a date IF: they are married, engaged/living together, bride and groom know the SO well, or a situation where it would be very awkward not to invite the date."

Quite frankly, isn't it rather classless to not invite both members of a couple which is dating seriously? And, who makes those calls about the intensity of a relationship? The couple, I should hope.

So, if a couple is in a live-in relationship for 10 years, but not married, does that count? I mean, I guess TECHNICALLY that's common-law married (or at least here in Texas), but...really? I mean...REALLY?

Ro041 · June 2013

coopergirl15 said:

I'm the first to admit my family is very Old World European and adheres to traditional etiquette by the razor's edge. What looks extreme to those outside the culture is common practice in our extended family and once was standard practice even in the United States, especially in the upper levels of society. I was trained to know and obey the rules so as to cause as little conflict as possible. Knowing these etiquette rules was and still is the difference between being perceived as properly cultured or as having no class among my relatives, and in a lot of cases my business associates. Believe it or not I'm actually considered a bit of an outsider because I include dating SOs in invitations and I don't have an issue with same sex couples. Such things are frowned upon and those types of relationships are largely not acknowledged in my extended family, cohabitation or no. I realize that I am not as flexible as most of my peers as far as etiquette goes, but old ingrained habits die hard...and the etiquette rule in question, always inviting spouses in pairs, is one you never want to overlook. The reactions to the lack of observing it may differ, but the rule still stands.

*Eyeroll* - what does any of this have to do with the original subject either?

And while I don't disagree that spouses should always be invited, to be "livid" and "sever all ties with the people selfish enough to disrespect our own marriage in such a way" is completely dramatic and going to give you a heart attack one day. Some things aren't important enough to get this upset about. Decline the invitation? Yes. Be "livid" that your husband's coworker (who you have never met) didn't include you in an invitation to a wedding? Probably not....

Ro041 · June 2013

coopergirl15 said:

@Rochelle041: You're entitled to not be offended by a breach of etiquette happening to you. I am likewise entitled to my reaction. Label it "dramatic," but my family above all else does not tolerate disrespect in any form. Is my reaction unusual to you? Yes. Among my relatives? No, it's par for the course, and ire that is seen as justly deserved if someone flaunts the rules of social engagement. As you judge me for my hardline beliefs on the married couple rule, my family would judge you for including your single guests' dates and boyfriends/girlfriends. Your background is different from mine and my family is my problem to deal with. No need to dictate how someone casts judgement. I am just sharing my particular upbringing. Your different view of the situation will not change mine.

Bolded - that is exactly what you are doing.

And I seriously doubt your family would judge me for including my single guest's dates because I probably wouldn't be friends with anyone who is so judgmental as to spend time wringing their hands and wagging their fingers about who I choose to invite to my wedding (which I am paying for with my money - not theirs). So, permit your family to judge away about useless things that do not affect them in ANY way, but don't be surprised if their nit picking alienates from good people and leaves them with no friends.

[Deleted User] · June 2013

shaylagirl · June 2013

One; I need to adopt Drama Llama.
Two; I need to co-marry Colbert.

Wait...is that an etiquette breach? To invite people to my polygamous wedding?

rustytammy · June 2013

Okay, I'm probably totally going to "step into it" but can't we all just agree to disagree? Each of us is different and come from different backgrounds. We all see things from a different perspective. My wedding isn't your wedding and vice versus. So why cast stones at something that isn't happening at your wedding?

SewInLoveWithDMB · June 2013

shaylagirl said:

One; I need to adopt Drama Llama.
Two; I need to co-marry Colbert.

Wait...is that an etiquette breach? To invite people to my polygamous wedding?

My sister ran into Stephen Colbert at the local grocery store. He lives near us.

[Deleted User] · June 2013

shaylagirl said:

One; I need to adopt Drama Llama.
Two; I need to co-marry Colbert.

Wait...is that an etiquette breach? To invite people to my polygamous wedding?

I quote this because loving it simply wasn't enough for me.

[Deleted User] · June 2013

@rustytammy I was/am under the impression that this was not an argument about who's doing what at their weddings, but more of a hypothetical "I'm better than you because xyz." Just my $0.02....

shaylagirl · June 2013

I'm moving. I'm moving in with @SewInLoveWithDMB's sister. For realz. Because I kinda wanna perv what Stephen Colbert buys at the grocery store.

Now, "agree to disagree"? Sure, even I can do that.

Until someone basically claims that their upbringing means they are properly cultured while anyone else lacking the same upbringing is classless.

No. Just. No.

As @libby18bell put it so wisely:
Also to shove what you perceive as etiquette and manners in another person's face as a sign of privilege and what not, is actually rude. Manners are to make people feel comfortable, not to make someone feel beneath them.

PS-@lplions Spongebob love!

Can I love Spongebob? Wait, I already did!! WHEEEEE!!!!!

09McSteph03 · June 2013

Rusty Tammy-this issue at hand is not whether or not we can agree to disagree. We're adults and can do that. The problem here, is that one patron believes the difference of opinion is based on social class, education and championship bloodline.

Copper-I am surprised that you defend your right to react so dramatically, and use culture as a justification yet you cannot see that other cultures don't see this as such an issue? Especially when you know nothing of their struggles, family expectations and other stressors that play into weddings. All the while you are claiming to be well bred you are judging the rest as classless baboons. Being well bred hasn't helped you garner any respect for the way you've set yourself above everyone. Did I say anything mortally offensive?

Stina51286 · June 2013

@coopergirl15- is your grandma the Queen? I mean she'd have to be to be so high above us.

bowlingball10 · June 2013

I can't believe how this topic that was about how you decide about +1s turned into this bloodbath of etiquette and class.

libby18bell · June 2013

@coopergirl15, just curious on how you justify thinking less of people, and being so judgmental. If you really do come from good upbringing, then you should know better than to judge people based on the status of their personal life.

By the way, when one is invited to a state dinner one if provided a guest invitation. In "proper" society it was thought of an undignified for a lady to go to events alone and un-escorted, so you can suck on that egg if you like.

Stina51286 · June 2013

bowlingball10 said:
I can't believe how this topic that was about how you decide about +1s turned into this bloodbath of etiquette and class.

Who are you?

Etiquette for Guests who write in a date...when one wasn't invited..

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