Dog at Reception (Yes, I am serious)

artbyallie · June 2013

I am mostly bothered by the fact that there are simply no enforceable standards for service animals or supposed service animals. Yes, there's certification, but businesses are flat-out not allowed to ask for proof of it.

This grumble brought to you by the fact that while I was at work today, a woman walked by with a large puppy in her arms, no leash. She was not stopped or asked to leave that I saw. Because we're not allowed to say anything.

bunni727 · June 2013

Hell, I went to camp with a girl so allergic to cats she had a reaction from being in the same cabin as the luggage and clothes of another camper who had pets at home.

laradoll · June 2013

there will be two service dogs at our wedding (ceremony and reception) one is a seeing dog and the other is a service dog for my autistic cousin. (they are very very well behaved and don't sound like this dog)

I didn't warn the venues - they are both public buildings so very use to service dogs and neither did I ask if anyone invited was allergic (It never occurred to me to do so)

harper0813 · June 2013

Liatris2010 said:
Guys, I think poodlemom is a troll. Her name is poodlemom and her only post is in this thread, and her picture is of a St. Bernard. I call bullshit.

I've seen her post before. Maybe her old posts were deleted during the switchover. (I can't see her post history on TK mobile.) So I do think she's for real. Unfortunately.

harper0813 · June 2013

laradoll said:
there will be two service dogs at our wedding (ceremony and reception) one is a seeing dog and the other is a service dog for my autistic cousin. (they are very very well behaved and don't sound like this dog)
I didn't warn the venues - they are both public buildings so very use to service dogs and neither did I ask if anyone invited was allergic (It never occurred to me to do so)

It might not hurt to post a warning on your wedding website and let people know by word of mouth if you happen to talk to them.

harper0813 · June 2013

Liatris2010 said:
@zobird, I wouldn't worry about informing guests about the service dogs. IRL, people see service dogs all the time, seeing one at a wedding wouldn't be unusual. Seeing one behaving and smelling as the one OP described would be.

Fair enough. I guess I'm just used to certain relatives of mine freaking out in the presence of a non-hypoallergenic dog!

PrettyGirlLost · June 2013

lyndausvi said:
It's a service dog. Don't judge and just let it go. A proper service dog just lays under the table or chair of their master and doesn't bother anyone. Nor should others pet the dog because it's working.

If it's not properly trained then that is a different issue.

From the OPs description it doesnt sound like it is a trained service dog. It sounds like her SF wants it to be his service dog, but a real one would not act as was described.

musicalcanadianbride · June 2013

If it isn't a legitimate service dog, then it should not be at the wedding if you do not want it to be.

[Deleted User] · June 2013

versdirtyhippy said:

The vest being on or off is what is trained from puppy-hood when they are proper service dogs. OP says it was a stray that was certified at an unknown age and not properly trained. Of course if it helps him, it helps him. Just pointing out the vest thing likely has no effect on this particular dog.

Plenty of service dogs are rescued strays trained later on in life. I just want to point that out. The college I went to had a program for college students to help train strays as service dogs by training them at home and on campus. Most of these were over the age of 2 (some being 5 or 6 even!).

I would encourage the vest thing because then at least your guests are aware that it is a service dog and most have enough awareness to know to ignore a dog that is working. The vest it typically not so that the dog knows it is working, but to alert the general public that the dog is working and that they should not try to get it to play or even pet it.

Otherwise, I would agree with everyone else about making sure the dog is near a door, find out if any guests have allergies and seat them as far away as possible, and get the dog groomed for the smell. I would consider a deshedding treatment done on the dog too. It would be a little more sanitary to reduce shedding. We do this to my mom's chocolate lab every 90 days and it has dramatically reduced the amount of hair she has to vacuum up in her home.

Jen4948 · June 2013

In order for it to be a "legitimate service dog," wouldn't it have to be certified? I mean, they can't just put a vest on it and claim that it's a service dog, right?

Jen4948 · June 2013

So, is the OP's stepfather's dog a certified service dog? If it isn't, he may have some problems with the venue if it chooses not to recognize the dog as a service dog because it isn't certified.

artbyallie · June 2013

Jen4948 said:

So, is the OP's stepfather's dog a certified service dog? If it isn't, he may have some problems with the venue if it chooses not to recognize the dog as a service dog because it isn't certified.

According to the ADA, businesses are not allowed to demand proof of certification for a service animal. They can only eject the animal if it is behaving aggressively. Hence my earlier grumble.

Jen4948 · June 2013

He'd better keep that dog under control and away from allergic guests then, because then the venue would be justified in ejecting it...certified or not.

lyndausvi · June 2013

Jen4948 said:

He'd better keep that dog under control and away from allergic guests then, because then the venue would be justified in ejecting it...certified or not.

Keeping the dog under control is one thing, but I do think they can reject a service dog because someone else is allergic. It might sucks but the needs of the allergic person doesn't necessarily triumph the needs of a service dog. (not talking about the OPs situation, but just service dogs in general.)

kipnus · June 2013

Liatris2010 said:

@zobird, I wouldn't worry about informing guests about the service dogs. IRL, people see service dogs all the time, seeing one at a wedding wouldn't be unusual. Seeing one behaving and smelling as the one OP described would be.

I wonder if the use of service animals is more common in some areas than others. I live in a big city, attend a very large university (which includes specialized fitness facilities for people with disabilities) and I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a service dog.

hacked · June 2013

I recently saw this subject on a People's Court episode. The woman had gone to visit a friend who lived in an apartment building. She was told the dogs were not welcome, and was suing the building owner for $5,000. When the judge asked the woman what service the dogs provided, she said they did not have to do anything- they gave her comfort and emotional support and that was all they had to do. The judge then told the woman that because of so many abuses regarding this issue, they ADA did an update in 2010. She then read from this website:

http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

What she made very clear is that providing emotional support is not enough; the animal must be trained to do specific tasks, and that just offering comfort is not enough to qualify it for a service dog. She said that every animal provides emotional support to their owners, but that does not make them a service animal. Later, I heard an interview with the judge about this subject, and she said that the fact that this woman had two dogs was a huge signal that the dogs were just pets and not service animals. The new revision also specifies that a service animal is a dog or a miniature horse (to put carts carrying larger disabled people). Cats are no longer considered service animals.

I thought the show was all very interesting, so I went on-line and found an accounting of the arguments the transpired when they changed the law.

http://www.abetterpet.com/abetterpet2/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Service-Dog-Law-Change-2011.pdf

The reason for the revision is that many people say that their pet gives them comfort and that makes them a service pet, and that should then qualify the pet for a free pass to everywhere. It seems that there had been some very serious problems on airplanes and other venues with animals who have run all over and threatened the well-being of others. They said that many people used ambiguities in the law to take their pet anywhere, claiming it as a service animal. The arguments when the law was changed also said that a person who has allergies is not a reason to exclude a service animal, but that the behavior of the animal may be a reason to exclude them. The law says the animal must be housebroken and must be harnessed, leashed or tethered. The owner has to be able to control the animal through voice, signal or other effective controls.

The reason I was so interested in this is because I have a friend with a large facial scar on her face, the result of a "service dog" who jumped on her and knocked her over. She cut her head, and once it started to bleed, the dog went wild and bit her three times. She has had three surgeries to correct the scar, but it is still visible. Her case was on of the ones used as an example to correct the ambiguities in the law. I personally have been on two plane trips where service dogs were given the run of the plane, and the owners had no control over them. I have lost many pairs of pantyhose to service animals in public places. A properly trained service animal will not jump on people or be distracted by what is happening. They usually focus on the owner and the surroundings of the owner and how it pertains to the safety and well-being of the owner.

All that aside, for your wedding, you will have to decide what to do about your stepfathers dog. If the venue is up on the current law, they have the right to ask your stepfather if the dog is needed for a disability (they cannot ask what that disability is) and what work or task the animal has been trained to perform. They cannot ask for a demonstration or ask to see documentation. So, he should be prepared to be asked those questions, and if your stepfather says the dog gives him emotional support, the venue has the right to deny him entrance. This may be embarrassing to him if he is challenged and does not give the right answers. If you decide not to suggest he leave the dog at home, I would coach him as to the right answers to the questions the venue may ask. He should know, too, that the venue cannot require a legitimate service dog owner to pay a pet deposit, but if the dog causes any damage or puddles on the floor, the venue can charge him for cleaning.

We leave near a retirement area, and many people in our area want to bring their teacup dogs grocery shopping, out to eat, etc. A local doctor is big on giving out letters that say the dog is necessary for the person's emotional support, but the area restaurants and stores have gotten smarter about the laws and know what to ask.

Good luck. I will be interested to hear how this goes. I would hope that he might think about grooming and diet a few weeks before the wedding. A properly cared for service dog should not smell.

hockeywithadiamond · June 2013

artbyallie said:

I am mostly bothered by the fact that there are simply no enforceable standards for service animals or supposed service animals. Yes, there's certification, but businesses are flat-out not allowed to ask for proof of it.

This grumble brought to you by the fact that while I was at work today, a woman walked by with a large puppy in her arms, no leash. She was not stopped or asked to leave that I saw. Because we're not allowed to say anything.

This is simply untrue. You are allowed to ask about service dogs, you are allowed to ask service dogs to leave if they are disruptive.

There is no certification currently available. As a business you are allowed to ask what services the dog performs for you, and you can ask for documentation for an emotional service dog.

Service dogs are protected by the ADA but there are also protections in place for the public. A service dog must be neatly kept and well trained. They must be able to behave in public and you shouldn't even really know they are there.

A lot of the comments made in this thread are lacking fact. There are dogs used by the military to work with PTSD patients. They are trained to interrupt a panic attack and make it possible for the handler to function. To the person that said they despised emotional support animals, I'm sorry you feel that way but they are necessary for some people.

I am fully aware of the fact that there are fakers out there who claim to have service dogs and they just want to take their pet with them everywhere. I encourage everyone to read up on the ADA and you can find plenty of information here: http://servicedogcentral.org/content/node/59

hacked · June 2013

StageManager14 said:

artbyallie said:

I am mostly bothered by the fact that there are simply no enforceable standards for service animals or supposed service animals. Yes, there's certification, but businesses are flat-out not allowed to ask for proof of it.

This grumble brought to you by the fact that while I was at work today, a woman walked by with a large puppy in her arms, no leash. She was not stopped or asked to leave that I saw. Because we're not allowed to say anything.

This is simply untrue. You are allowed to ask about service dogs, you are allowed to ask service dogs to leave if they are disruptive.

There is no certification currently available. As a business you are allowed to ask what services the dog performs for you, and you can ask for documentation for an emotional service dog.

Service dogs are protected by the ADA but there are also protections in place for the public. A service dog must be neatly kept and well trained. They must be able to behave in public and you shouldn't even really know they are there.

A lot of the comments made in this thread are lacking fact. There are dogs used by the military to work with PTSD patients. They are trained to interrupt a panic attack and make it possible for the handler to function. To the person that said they despised emotional support animals, I'm sorry you feel that way but they are necessary for some people.

I am fully aware of the fact that there are fakers out there who claim to have service dogs and they just want to take their pet with them everywhere. I encourage everyone to read up on the ADA and you can find plenty of information here: http://servicedogcentral.org/content/node/59

Point of fact, the ADA classifies dogs who are trained to interrupt panic attacks as "service animals", not "support animals". I don't believe that is what pp was talking about at all.

PSTD is a diagnosis of an actual medical condition and a service animal is warranted. If a person who gets nervous in public or has panic attacks wants a service animal there to support them, that is not considered a service animal under the ADA guidelines.

The ADA says makes no mention that I can find that says the animal must be neatly kept. It just mentions the animal's behavior and that they cannot be disruptive. They also say that just because a person has allergies does not mean a service animal must be asked to leave. They say you have to try to keep that person and the animal as far apart as you can.

As for asking for documentation, this is straight from the ADA website:

When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the person’s disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.

hockeywithadiamond · June 2013

The neatly kept is a common guideline among service dog handlers. Would you send your child off to school dirty and smelling awful? Would you go to work that way? That's how we feel about having a neatly kept dog. The dog is working when on duty and should be neatly kept so as to disrupt the environment as little as possible.

And while staff can not ask about the disability, I have been frequently asked if that is my pet...to which I respond, no she is my service dog. I have also been asked by airlines and the business owners which tasks my dog can perform, and both of those are very legal questions to ask under the ADA. I have had a service dog for several years and have been asked those questions several times.

Dog at Reception (Yes, I am serious)

Re: Dog at Reception (Yes, I am serious)

Choose Another Board

Search Boards