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chelseamb11
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Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/19/missouri-boy-with-down-syndrome-suspended-for-sexually-harassing-bus-aide/?intcmp=obnetwork
CN: A 14 year old boy with DS (who is described as normally very affectionate) grabbed a female aide on the school bus and more or less air humped her based on the description. She decided to not press charges but the school still suspended him. His mom is outraged because he has no concept of what sexuality is and didn't know what he was doing. He has no idea why he was suspended.
While I undertstand what he did was wrong, I am leaning towards the side of his mom. Rather than suspend him, why not explain to him plainly why that was wrong and have a very toned down sex-talk with him? If he truly didn't know what he was doing, suspending him isn't going to properly punish him anyway. I'm not sure. I'm on the fence I guess.
WDYT?
CN: A 14 year old boy with DS (who is described as normally very affectionate) grabbed a female aide on the school bus and more or less air humped her based on the description. She decided to not press charges but the school still suspended him. His mom is outraged because he has no concept of what sexuality is and didn't know what he was doing. He has no idea why he was suspended.
While I undertstand what he did was wrong, I am leaning towards the side of his mom. Rather than suspend him, why not explain to him plainly why that was wrong and have a very toned down sex-talk with him? If he truly didn't know what he was doing, suspending him isn't going to properly punish him anyway. I'm not sure. I'm on the fence I guess.
WDYT?
This discussion has been closed.
Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment
generic blog link.
One of my students with autism was caught selling drugs in middle school. The school had to go prove his disability had no part in selling drugs.
Edit: Sorry about my formatting. It looks weird on my computer and I can't change it.
I think they are treating him like 14-year-old with the mental capacities of a 14-year-old, not someone with a disability. Obviously, they need to 'punish' him in some way to make sure he understands that what he did was inappropriate, but I think suspending him is a little far for a first offense.
I'm doing Team in Training for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society!
[QUOTE]There's probably a zero tolerance policy in place for sexual misconduct, and I don't know that it applies to students with Down's Syndrome (because of what LetsHike said), but they're probably just following procedure at this point. It's such a slippery slope trying to prove that a student didn't understand their actions because of a disability. I wouldn't want to have to make the decision that the school did.
Posted by whitsy[/QUOTE]
This is what I was going to say. They most likely have to cover themselves by procedure.The woman can go to the board if something isn't done yet the boy's family might be able to do the same becaue of his disability. It looks like a situation of damned if they do, damned if they don't.
ETA: corrected because it wasn't a girl but a woman
"So I sing a song of love, Julia"
06.10.10
BFAR:We Defined Our Own Success!
[QUOTE]Any student who has an IEP has to have a meeting (although for the life of me I can't remember the actual name of the meeting) before the student can be suspended. The team (including the parent and the student given his age) has to determine the correct disciplinary action. The school can't just suspend the student. It's against the law.
Posted by strlzfan11[/QUOTE]
The article doesn't say, but I'm really betting there was a meeting. Schools are SO careful to not break any of the laws surrounding disabilities. MrsB can probably back me up on this, but I have students in two of my classes with IEPs and 504s, and I am very careful to make sure I follow procedure for meeting their plans.
I also completely disagree with the mother saying the teachers and administrators are not educating on students with disabilities. I have taken four classes under the SPED category, and my Master's requires two more.
Edit: Not back me up that I am careful, but just that schools and educators in general are careful.
[QUOTE]You must be in the mood for a debate today, eh, Chels? ETA: I was informed sometimes I come off as "snarky" - this should be followed by this:
Posted by LDYGTR13[/QUOTE]
Whatever Snarky McSnarkerson.
<img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-tongue-out.gif" border="0" alt="Tongue out" title="Tongue out" />
But yeah, I don't mind a good debate. I went home from work to relax all day and try and kick this cold in the ass.
Teachery Blog
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : The article doesn't say, but I'm really betting there was a meeting. Schools are SO careful to not break any of the laws surrounding disabilities. <strong>MrsB can probably back me up on this, but I have students in two of my classes with IEPs and 504s, and I am very careful to make sure I follow procedure for meeting their plans. I also completely disagree with the mother saying the teachers and administrators are not educating on students with disabilities</strong>. I have taken four classes under the SPED category, and my Master's requires two more. Edit: Not back me up that I am careful, but just that schools and educators in general are careful.
Posted by whitsy[/QUOTE]
Consider yourself backed. <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /> My last year in MS I had 18 kids on IEPs and I kept a detailed folder on each one of them with parental contact (signed academic weekly reports, emails, phonecalls, etc) academic info and behavior as needed. My ESE coordinator loved me. ;-)
That jumped out at me, too, Whitsy. I thought that the statement <em>The teachers and the administrators are not educated on children with developmental disabilities and they don't want to be educated on them," she said. "All they want to do is push them out of their doors." </em> was very unfair of her to make.
"So I sing a song of love, Julia"
06.10.10
BFAR:We Defined Our Own Success!
"So I sing a song of love, Julia"
06.10.10
BFAR:We Defined Our Own Success!
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : I thought that the statement The teachers and the administrators are not educated on children with developmental disabilities and they don't want to be educated on them," she said. "All they want to do is push them out of their doors." was very unfair of her to make.
Posted by Mrs.B6302007[/QUOTE]
I agree. That is pushing it too far.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : Consider yourself backed. My last year in MS I had 18 kids on IEPs and I kept a detailed folder on each one of them with parental contact (signed academic weekly reports, emails, phonecalls, etc) academic info and behavior as needed. My ESE coordinator loved me. ;-) That jumped out at me, too, Whitsy. I thought that the statement The teachers and the administrators are not educated on children with developmental disabilities and they don't want to be educated on them," she said. "All they want to do is push them out of their doors." was very unfair of her to make.
Posted by Mrs.B6302007[/QUOTE]
Agreed. It was unfair of her to say that because it's too much of an assumption. It's true in a lot of cases but there's nothing backing it up in this case.
I still think suspension was a little overboard. It's not like it's a repeat occurence. I see nothing wrong with them talking to him about this incident. IF it were to happen again, then I can see a suspension being appropriate.
Teachery Blog
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : Consider yourself backed. My last year in MS I had 18 kids on IEPs and I kept a detailed folder on each one of them with parental contact (signed academic weekly reports, emails, phonecalls, etc) academic info and behavior as needed. <strong>My ESE coordinator loved me. ;-)</strong> That jumped out at me, too, Whitsy. I thought that the statement The teachers and the administrators are not educated on children with developmental disabilities and they don't want to be educated on them," she said. "All they want to do is push them out of their doors." was very unfair of her to make.
Posted by Mrs.B6302007[/QUOTE]
I bet! I keep folders too, I only had 15 last year, but this year I am up to 27. It's a lot to remember, but I have three aides who are SO helpful.
"So I sing a song of love, Julia"
06.10.10
BFAR:We Defined Our Own Success!
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : Agreed. It was unfair of her to say that because it's too much of an assumption. <strong> It's true in a lot of cases</strong> but there's nothing backing it up in this case. I still think suspension was a little overboard. It's not like it's a repeat occurence. I see nothing wrong with them talking to him about this incident. IF it were to happen again, then I can see a suspension being appropriate.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]
I disagree Chelsea, and I'm surprised you think that. I can't think of any teachers that have graduated in at least the last ten years that haven't received SPED training. Maybe course requirements are different in other states, but I graduated with a pretty decent background knowledge of SPED.
[QUOTE]Dude, you have aides? Lucky!
Posted by Mrs.B6302007[/QUOTE]
Yes! I love them so much. They are so helpful.
[QUOTE]The article mentions that the student doesn't know why he can't go to school. I don't understand why the mother would not explain to him that what he did was inappropriate and wrong even if he doesn't know what he was doing was sexual. I wonder what his reaction was when the aide started screaming and asking for help. I would think with that reaction he would have some sort of understanding that what he did was wrong.
Posted by DodgersBride[/QUOTE]
It sounds like you haven't met anyone with DS. Like I said, my uncle was at about age 3 - 5 (depending on the subject) for his level of understanding. You think that if you just start yelling at a 4 year old that they'll understand what they did wrong. I mean, I'm sure they understand <em>something</em> is wrong, but not exactly what speicific action it was or why it was wrong.
Basically, I think a talk with the parents, student and administration is required to explain to him what he did that was wrong and why it was wrong, but suspending him isn't going to help the situation.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : I disagree Chelsea, and I'm surprised you think that. I can't think of any teachers that have graduated in at least the last ten years that haven't received SPED training. Maybe course requirements are different in other states, but I graduated with a pretty decent background knowledge of SPED.
Posted by whitsy[/QUOTE]
I agree everyone gets the training, but you can't tell me there aren't schools/districts/teachers out there that are too prejudiced or lazy to help kids with disabilities. "A lot" might have been a strech, but I doubt that I never happens either.
Teachery Blog
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : <strong>It sounds like you haven't met anyone with DS</strong>. Like I said, my uncle was at about age 3 - 5 (depending on the subject) for his level of understanding. You think that if you just start yelling at a 4 year old that they'll understand what they did wrong. I mean, I'm sure they understand something is wrong, but not exactly what speicific action it was or why it was wrong. Basically, I think a talk with the parents, student and administration is required to explain to him what he did that was wrong and why it was wrong, but suspending him isn't going to help the situation.
Posted by jemmini6[/QUOTE]
Like I said in my first post I do know someone with DS and deal with them daily. No where did I say yelling at them would make them understand. If a 3-5 child did something wrong that had a reaction like that of the aide I am sure they would know what they just did was wrong or hurtful. If they don't then the parent should explain to the child or person with DS in this case why the person reacted the way they did and why is was wrong and not to do it again. I know it is easier said than done but I would at least try and it seems as though the mother isn't doing that and just wants to point the blame at the school.
I feel as thought now a days parents feel the need for teachers and school staff should do the job of the parent too often. I do think that the student should be explained why he can't go to school and what he did was wrong but I feel his mother should do it first followed by the school. I believe the mother said in the article that the school staff doesn't know how to deal with someone with DS so why would she want the school to handle it with her son and not her.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : I agree everyone gets the training, but you can't tell me there aren't schools/districts/teachers out there that are too prejudiced or lazy to help kids with disabilities. "A lot" might have been a strech, but I doubt that I never happens either.
Posted by chelseamb11[/QUOTE]
No, I never said that it doesn't happen. Maybe I'm just too naive, but I really honestly believe that with all the laws and regulations that educators aren't careful about following the rules. The consequences are too severe not to follow them.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : No, I never said that it doesn't happen. Maybe I'm just too naive, but I really honestly believe that with all the laws and regulations that educators aren't careful about following the rules. The consequences are too severe not to follow them.
Posted by whitsy[/QUOTE]
True. I also feel like anyone asshole enough to not follow them will try to find a way around them.
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[QUOTE]Maybe I'm going to sound like an asshole, but I think it's appropriate for him to be punished. We punish children while simultaneously explaining what they did wrong all the time. I admittedly didn't read the article so i don't know how long the suspension was for, but a one day suspension doesn't sem so awful.
Posted by FutureMrsTR[/QUOTE]
It lasts thru January 5th.
Teachery Blog
ttc chart
BFP 8/01/12, EDD 04/10/12, mm/c @ 6wks, discovered at 8wks, D&C 9/05/12
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Boy with Down Syndrome suspended for sexual harassment : No, I never said that it doesn't happen. Maybe I'm just too naive, but I really honestly believe that with all the laws and regulations that educators aren't careful about following the rules. The consequences are too severe not to follow them.
Posted by whitsy[/QUOTE]
I agree with you. I think teachers mostly meet expectations and want to help educated kiddos with special needs. Those who don't are in the minority, in my opinion.
I will say this, having a developmental or learning disability does nothing to prevent someone from being a jerk or an asshole or an abuser. While I think that it is important to look into why someone is behaving in a manner and if it is related to the disability (as Hike said about selling drugs earlier), I think it does a disservice to portray all people with disabilities as unable to help what happens or what they do, to a degree.
While not DS, my FI has a friend with diagnosed Asperger's Syndrome. He is also a total diick. He acknowledges that he uses his diagnosis in order to behave the way he sees fit without getting as much flack for it. I think that's horrible, no matter what. No that I know that a kid with DS would have that kind of thought process, but just throwing it out there.