Am I being too judgemental??

manateehugger · July 2013

GlassButton said:

@RickandSteph13 They told him because they probably thought they'd get support, not him telling his spouse and secretly judging them.

Oh please. Anytime you put your life (and your LIES) out there, you're inviting people to judge. When you are LYING to your friends and family, you're especially inviting people to judge.

It sounds like you're judging OP because she put this story out there.

misshart00 · July 2013

kmmssg said:

misshart00 said:

I always wonder about getting married secretly because of the military? What if something happens to him while he's deployed. I wouldn't want to be the wife that has to tell his parents that not only did something happen, but we also lied about being married.

I forgot to address this part. I can't IMAGINE the heartbreak of the parent's finding out their dead child was secretly married.

One scenario that comes to mind is this: A Soldier is free to name anyone he/she wants to name as the Person Appointed to Direct Disposition (PADD) if they are killed/die while in the military. They do not have to choose their next of kin but that is what is done in the overwhelming majority of cases. What if the Soldier secretly gets married and doesn't change it from a parent to his/her new spouse? Selection of the PADD is not appealable. Whomever the Soldier designated last is it. They decide where they are buried, when they are buried, and how they are buried.

You could have a new wife confronting her angry, devastated ILs and them having control of everything because the Soldier never changed it after the wedding. You would be amazed at how often Soldiers drag their feet on that stuff.

One friend of mine did a Casualty Notification and the wife (not secret wife) was all of 19 and being bullied by her ILs that THEY would be making the funeral arrangements and burying him in his home state. Um, nope - the Army would only deal with the wife, only deal with the funeral home and cemetary she wanted. That one was ugly.

Another friend of mine was a Casualty Assistance Officer for a death last year. The Soldier got married around the holidays (second marriage, had 6 kids) and had to deploy to Afghanistan for his 6th deployment within a week or so of the wedding. He was killed 4 or 5 weeks later and his father was appointed as PADD. New wife got no say unless her FIL gave it to her.

This lying thing opens up the potential for some horrible scenarios. I only had to do one Casualty Notification but the Soldier wasnt' married so it was as straitforward as it could be in that circumstance.

Thank you for addressing this. I was unaware there were forms and such (even though that seems very duh now). I just assumed it was automatically next of kin. That would just suck all the way around.

RickandSteph13 · July 2013

First of all, they told him he could tell me. And second of all, I am the one doing the real judging. He just doesn't think it was smart to lie about it. I think that's something that most people think in a situation like this. I highly doubt that there's a whole lot of people that are completely fine with hearing someone is lying about something like this. I would appreciate you not judging my husbands charactor. I may be a judgemental witch sometimes but he is the furthest thing from that and he has stood by this friend thru a lot of things that I can't say his friend would do for him.

manateehugger · July 2013

wrigleyville said:

PDKH said:

wrigleyville said:

Then there's the double-edged sword where people think I don't support the military or military couples since I'm not okay with this. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm in full support of the men and women brave enough to join the military, and I have a lot of respect for them. I also understand that sometimes you have to rush a wedding because of a deployment or whatnot. But that doesn't justify lying. You can still have a nice wedding at the last minute. Having a PPD means those couples feel entitled to something, and that is what I have a problem with.

If my FI suddenly needed health insurance for some reason, we'd move our wedding up and not even bat an eye. I'd wear a cute dress to the courthouse, and we'd take everyone out for dinner at a restaurant. I wouldn't feel like I was "missing out" because I still got to marry my FI and have a wedding. So what if it isn't big or foofy or a huge party? It's your wedding day. Who doesn't love their wedding day?

Pssh I hate PPD's more because I AM a future military spouse. PPD's, in my mind, are disrespectful to the notion of honesty, self-sacrifice, and service - especially secret PPD's.

Military folks aren't the only ones who get tangible benefits from becoming legall married. Military folks are some of the few who get free benefits for getting married (free housing, food stipend, FREE health care and insurance, etc.) directly paid for by US taxpayers. Which is why I find military PPD's particularly abhorrent. They take advantage of all of us.
Bingo. That's why I'm especially ticked off about the couple I know. Her grandparents cut her off, and I guarantee that's why they did the JOP thing. The girl has never worked a day in her life, and now I get to pay for her fat butt to sit on the couch all day while she uses her fake fiance/H's hard-earned money to pay for this sham of a "LOOK AT MEEEEE" day. I feel so bad for him. She's cheated on him (with my ex, no less), so yeah - I judge this whole thing hardcore.

There are two reasons I haven't told anyone about it: 1) Because that makes me a bad person and 2) Because we are friends with her H and don't want to cause him any embarrassment or pain. I'm 99% positive she talked him into this.

But MAN is it tempting some days. I hate being an adult sometimes.

I'm right there with you. I was a bridesmaid in a secret PPD (found out two weeks after the day). She posts stuff on Facebook all the time like "Loving the first month of married life!" "Enjoying my new husband!" And people always like it and put "What lovely newlyweds, etc." The only ones who know are their parents and my FI and I.

I want SO BADLY to comment "I thought your first month of married life was March haha!" I keep my mouth shut though.

kmmssg · July 2013

@misshart00 - you are welcome! There really is an excellent process built and in place to make a tragic situation flow as best it can. It depends on Soldiers updating their information and keeping it current.

I was given a Casualty Notification mission probably 8-10 years ago and it was the day before Easter. We were supposed to notify a Soldier's parents that he had been killed several hours earlier walking along a highway in Texas in the middle of the night. This Soldier had very outdated information on file and his parents had not lived at that address in many years. It was a bit awkward when we knocked on the door (2 people in dress military uniforms - most everyone knows what that means) and a bubbly young woman answers the door with "Hi! Can I help you?" Turns out she and her husband were the second family to live in the house since the parents moved. We had to go McDonald's and call Fort Knox for further instructions. It was finally discovered that they lived hours away and someone else in that area was given the mission.

It is a system that works if you do what you are supposed to do.

NYCBruin · July 2013

GlassButton said:

@wrigleyville By what you posted it doesn't sound like you'd complain about a dry wedding, but I've seen on here and other sites (wedding wire and wedding bee) where people start to go and on about how awful they are. I remember reading one thread where someone said it was pushing your belief on them. (I don't remember the details but the couple couldn't drink due to religious beliefs and didn't feel comfortable serving it so it turned ugly because of a few people.)

What does that have to do with the topic of this thread?

NYCBruin · July 2013

StageManager14 said:

GlassButton said:

@wrigleyville By what you posted it doesn't sound like you'd complain about a dry wedding, but I've seen on here and other sites (wedding wire and wedding bee) where people start to go and on about how awful they are. I remember reading one thread where someone said it was pushing your belief on them. (I don't remember the details but the couple couldn't drink due to religious beliefs and didn't feel comfortable serving it so it turned ugly because of a few people.)

And AGAIN, you need to understand that different posters post different things. So, just because you read someone saying it on here (or even on another website, WTAF?), it does not mean that it is applicable to the posters you are currently speaking to. We are not The Borg. We are free thinking individuals, and when you go off like that to a bride who actually HAD a dry wedding, you just look crazy and uninformed.

It's like we have the same brain today.

NYCMercedes · July 2013

StageManager14 said:

They are scamming the government for money. No, you are not being too judgmental to think this is wrong.

This exactly! It makes my blood boil. My military kids had to choose whether to wait or to have a simple ceremony, so nobody ever tell me I don't get it.

manateehugger · July 2013

misshart00 said:

misshart00 said:

I always wonder about getting married secretly because of the military? What if something happens to him while he's deployed. I wouldn't want to be the wife that has to tell his parents that not only did something happen, but we also lied about being married.
I forgot to address this part. I can't IMAGINE the heartbreak of the parent's finding out their dead child was secretly married.

One scenario that comes to mind is this: A Soldier is free to name anyone he/she wants to name as the Person Appointed to Direct Disposition (PADD) if they are killed/die while in the military. They do not have to choose their next of kin but that is what is done in the overwhelming majority of cases. What if the Soldier secretly gets married and doesn't change it from a parent to his/her new spouse? Selection of the PADD is not appealable. Whomever the Soldier designated last is it. They decide where they are buried, when they are buried, and how they are buried.

You could have a new wife confronting her angry, devastated ILs and them having control of everything because the Soldier never changed it after the wedding. You would be amazed at how often Soldiers drag their feet on that stuff.

One friend of mine did a Casualty Notification and the wife (not secret wife) was all of 19 and being bullied by her ILs that THEY would be making the funeral arrangements and burying him in his home state. Um, nope - the Army would only deal with the wife, only deal with the funeral home and cemetary she wanted. That one was ugly.

Another friend of mine was a Casualty Assistance Officer for a death last year. The Soldier got married around the holidays (second marriage, had 6 kids) and had to deploy to Afghanistan for his 6th deployment within a week or so of the wedding. He was killed 4 or 5 weeks later and his father was appointed as PADD. New wife got no say unless her FIL gave it to her.

This lying thing opens up the potential for some horrible scenarios. I only had to do one Casualty Notification but the Soldier wasnt' married so it was as straitforward as it could be in that circumstance.
Thank you for addressing this. I was unaware there were forms and such (even though that seems very duh now). I just assumed it was automatically next of kin. That would just suck all the way around.

Geeze. What nightmares. Stories like these are why it is SO important for spouses and future spouses to be the PADD.

I'm very grateful that I haven't had to talk to a CAO. Shiver.

NYCBruin · July 2013

GlassButton said:

GlassButton said:

@StageManager14 On the other thread before you came on I had already apologized to the OP about mixing it up. I quoted myself and showed it to you.

I know you did. What I am saying is that you are making the same mistake here again.
Why you even pointed it out on the other thread I don't get. I had already addressed it. In this one there was no mix up. I wasn't even "talking" to wrigevilly. As for the other part it was a rant.

I still want to know how your "rant" is at all relevant to this topic.

misshart00 · July 2013

Nobody reads the stickies so I don't know what that would accomplish.

colex · July 2013

Courtpenguin21 said:

I don't get this whole PPD thing. My boyfriend and I are living together and even though it would be great to get married and claim each other on our taxes we're going to wait. No reason to rush. I just don't get it.

And the whole "oh the family will be upset with us if we don't have the huge ceremony" I call shenanigans. I'd call something else but I'm trying to cut back on my swearing. The family will get over it and if they are seriously going to act like children and throw a fit I wouldn't want to be around them anyways. So I say to all those people who want PPD's because their real marriage wasn't "good enough" grow a back bone and grow the heck up. Argh! People these days.

I agree.

I'm in almost the same position. FI and I are planning to move in together in the near future because it makes more sense financially for him, even though we won't be married until 2015.

OP, if I was you I wouldn't go. Even if you're husband decides he needs to go it's okay. However, if it was me, I'd sit this one out.

ETA for clarity

NYCBruin · July 2013

GlassButton said:

GlassButton said:

GlassButton said:

@StageManager14 On the other thread before you came on I had already apologized to the OP about mixing it up. I quoted myself and showed it to you.

I know you did. What I am saying is that you are making the same mistake here again.
Why you even pointed it out on the other thread I don't get. I had already addressed it. In this one there was no mix up. I wasn't even "talking" to wrigevilly. As for the other part it was a rant.

I still want to know how your "rant" is at all relevant to this topic.
It's just things I think there should a sticky on here about. It seems to me things come in waves, right now is PPDs.

Do you always post on forums in stream of consciousness?

NYCBruin · July 2013

StageManager14 said:

GlassButton said:

@NYCBruin Why don't you cyber stalk me and find out?

And now I'm thinking maybe troll. Because who takes this much joy in just confusing and annoying everyone?

And this round of Where's Waldo: Troll Edition goes to Stage!

wrigleyville · July 2013

Anyone who complains about a dry wedding is rude. That's on the guests. The B&G did nothing wrong by having a dry wedding.

A PPD is on the B&G. They're the rude ones for lying to their friends and relatives. It's also ridiculous to call someone your fiance when you're already married. They are your husband. It just makes you look stupid.

RickandSteph13 · July 2013

There's always gotta be that one person that disagrees with everyone.

manateehugger · July 2013

It's not rude to lie to people who love you and who are spending hundreds of dollars and tons of hours on you?

Oh, ok, then.

margaretskye · July 2013

I agree with you that it's deceitful, which isn't cool. However I would totally go (as long as it didn't cost me a lot of money). Free food, free party, a chance to dress up - why not?

Kate61487 · July 2013

tinambride said:

I usually don't mind "pretty princess days" (what people seem to call this around here), but in this situation it does bother me. It doesn't bother me if they decide to have a PPD, but if they are only married in name and not lifestyle (ie not living as a married couple), but claiming the benefits of a married couple, then this is fraud. That's irrelevant to a PPD and is completely wrong. You are right to be concerned.
....
But again, claiming to be married (to the government) when you are not in fact living as a married couple is fraud and completely wrong.

I agree that this PPD is totally wrong, but it's 99% because they're lying to their family and friends.

The bolded above just confuses me - so you're defrauding the government if you don't live with your spouse? Lots of people have long distance relationships, even in marriage. Military relationships, especially, are VERY frequently long distance. (It doesn't sound like he's deployed or anything, but you get the idea). I know many people who work for weeks or months at a time on location and don't get to see their spouses regularly; they are no less married.

My aunt and uncle have been happily married for 12 years and have maintained separate residences that whole time - they both had careers with family businesses in their home cities so they talk on the phone daily, see each other on weekends whenever possible and travel together a lot. The idea that you think they are committing fraud because they don't live together seems ridiculous to me.

manateehugger · July 2013

Kate61487 said:

tinambride said:

I usually don't mind "pretty princess days" (what people seem to call this around here), but in this situation it does bother me. It doesn't bother me if they decide to have a PPD, but if they are only married in name and not lifestyle (ie not living as a married couple), but claiming the benefits of a married couple, then this is fraud. That's irrelevant to a PPD and is completely wrong. You are right to be concerned.
....
But again, claiming to be married (to the government) when you are not in fact living as a married couple is fraud and completely wrong.

I agree that this PPD is totally wrong, but it's 99% because they're lying to their family and friends.

The bolded above just confuses me - so you're defrauding the government if you don't live with your spouse? Lots of people have long distance relationships, even in marriage. Military relationships, especially, are VERY frequently long distance. (It doesn't sound like he's deployed or anything, but you get the idea). I know many people who work for weeks or months at a time on location and don't get to see their spouses regularly; they are no less married.

My aunt and uncle have been happily married for 12 years and have maintained separate residences that whole time - they both had careers with family businesses in their home cities so they talk on the phone daily, see each other on weekends whenever possible and travel together a lot. The idea that you think they are committing fraud because they don't live together seems ridiculous to me.

Kate, it's not fraud (yes, not in the legal sense, but in every other sense in my mind) because they aren't living together. It's fraud because they're pretending to be unmarried while cashing in on the massive benefits offered to military spouses.

Kate61487 · July 2013

PDKH said:

Kate61487 said:

tinambride said:

I usually don't mind "pretty princess days" (what people seem to call this around here), but in this situation it does bother me. It doesn't bother me if they decide to have a PPD, but if they are only married in name and not lifestyle (ie not living as a married couple), but claiming the benefits of a married couple, then this is fraud. That's irrelevant to a PPD and is completely wrong. You are right to be concerned.
....
But again, claiming to be married (to the government) when you are not in fact living as a married couple is fraud and completely wrong.

I agree that this PPD is totally wrong, but it's 99% because they're lying to their family and friends.

The bolded above just confuses me - so you're defrauding the government if you don't live with your spouse? Lots of people have long distance relationships, even in marriage. Military relationships, especially, are VERY frequently long distance. (It doesn't sound like he's deployed or anything, but you get the idea). I know many people who work for weeks or months at a time on location and don't get to see their spouses regularly; they are no less married.

My aunt and uncle have been happily married for 12 years and have maintained separate residences that whole time - they both had careers with family businesses in their home cities so they talk on the phone daily, see each other on weekends whenever possible and travel together a lot. The idea that you think they are committing fraud because they don't live together seems ridiculous to me.
Kate, it's not fraud (yes, not in the legal sense, but in every other sense in my mind) because they aren't living together. It's fraud because they're pretending to be unmarried while cashing in on the massive benefits offered to military spouses.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I was just reading @tinambride's focus on the "not living as a married couple" as being about not living together (since OP mentioned they wouldn't be). I suppose it could also be interpreted as not presenting themselves as a married couple socially/to family which I agree is the real fraud here. Perhaps that's what tina meant and I misinterpreted...

Weesh · July 2013

PDKH said:

wrigleyville said:

Then there's the double-edged sword where people think I don't support the military or military couples since I'm not okay with this. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm in full support of the men and women brave enough to join the military, and I have a lot of respect for them. I also understand that sometimes you have to rush a wedding because of a deployment or whatnot. But that doesn't justify lying. You can still have a nice wedding at the last minute. Having a PPD means those couples feel entitled to something, and that is what I have a problem with.

If my FI suddenly needed health insurance for some reason, we'd move our wedding up and not even bat an eye. I'd wear a cute dress to the courthouse, and we'd take everyone out for dinner at a restaurant. I wouldn't feel like I was "missing out" because I still got to marry my FI and have a wedding. So what if it isn't big or foofy or a huge party? It's your wedding day. Who doesn't love their wedding day?

Pssh I hate PPD's more because I AM a future military spouse. PPD's, in my mind, are disrespectful to the notion of honesty, self-sacrifice, and service - especially secret PPD's.

Military folks aren't the only ones who get tangible benefits from becoming legall married. Military folks are some of the few who get free benefits for getting married (free housing, food stipend, FREE health care and insurance, etc.) directly paid for by US taxpayers. Which is why I find military PPD's particularly abhorrent. They take advantage of all of us.

I am also a future military spouse. I didn't even know about half of these benefits that spouses, or dependents receive until my FH explained it to me and broke down his benefits and paychecks.

I get angry because many people manipulate the system and take advantage of these benefits. It's absolutely disrespectful to lie to family, friends,and loved ones and get married secretly. Your wedding day is your wedding day, however you decide to do it. The most important thing? At the end of the day, you're married. Having a PPD for the sake of having a wedding makes me wonder why people are so concerned with "having their day"--a marriage is more than a reception, a dress, and cake.

And OP, I wouldn't go either.

gpeeples · July 2013

I think what they're doing is wrong, and I don't think you are wrong for judging them, but if it was my husband's best friend, I would go to the wedding for my husband.

wrigleyville · July 2013

If I did end up going, I wouldn't bring a gift. I don't reward deceitful behavior or AWs. I would treat it like any other weekend get-together.

I would not travel, though. If travel were required, forget it.

wrigleyville · July 2013

GlassButton said:

Anyone who complains about a dry wedding is rude. That's on the guests. The B&G did nothing wrong by having a dry wedding.

A PPD is on the B&G. They're the rude ones for lying to their friends and relatives. It's also ridiculous to call someone your fiance when you're already married. They are your husband. It just makes you look stupid.
I agree with your top half. The second part, well most of it. I just don't agree that it's rude.

Lying = rude, especially when people are spending money on you based on a lie. I don't get why you don't understand this.

NYCBruin · July 2013

Liatris2010 said:

GlassButton said:

Am I the only one that finds these PPD threads old? There should be a sticky on here about it like dry weddings. @RickandSteph13: I agree with GypsyBride on this. Also, I don't get the big commotion over weddings that I'm starting to see. I always thought I was too into it until I came here. I viewed weddings as these great parties people throw. Yes, something's are odd and can be seen as rude, but if you were in this person's house would you throw a fit? I mean would you throw a fit if a friend of yours invited you to their house and served you chicken and coke? Would you demand they serve you wine if not they're imposing their beliefs on you? Would you throw a fit (in my culture we celebrate the 15th birthday party) if someone couldn't afford one and they invited you to it a year later? They're 16 at this point, but does it matter? They want to experience the party too. Yes you're 15 regardless of the huge party but some still wish to experience what it's like. I have no issue with this. I know it's just a few people, but these people need to get over themselves. It's just a party. It's not determining anything in your life or changing the world. Sorry for the rant RickandSteph13. I do agree with you though that they shouldn't lie about their martial statues though, but it sounds like they really do need the money. IMO the wrong they did was tell your husband when they thought he'd be a friend.

I view weddings as ceremonies in which people are wed. Fuck me right?

You don't have to pretend to get married to throw a fancy party. You can throw a party whenever the fuck you fell like.

I think I just had a breakthrough.

People who go to weddings to witness a couple get married in a ceremony find PPDs offensive.

People who go to weddings just because they like free booze don't.

That clears a lot up.

ETA typo

PrimRoseMama · July 2013

I think its shady business for sure, but I mean, I don't know if I would boycott a wedding over it. Do I disagree? Yes. However, I don't know if its worth creating a stink or losing a friendship over it. Do you? Can someone explain why you would boycott a wedding over this?

What does PPD stand for?

Jen4948 · July 2013

It stands for "Pretty Princess Day."

What bothers most posters here about them is not so much the second, big celebration, but the fact that the couple is keeping their real status secret in order to claim the legal and social benefits of marriage while claiming that "they're not married" in a culture that doesn't require separate civil and religious marriages. It's lying about whether or not you are married or not, and taxpayers don't appreciate being expected to subsidize marriage benefits for people who are holding themselves socially out as "not married."

daveANDkristen · July 2013

PrimRoseMama said:

I think its shady business for sure, but I mean, I don't know if I would boycott a wedding over it. Do I disagree? Yes. However, I don't know if its worth creating a stink or losing a friendship over it. Do you? Can someone explain why you would boycott a wedding over this?

What does PPD stand for?

1. Why would OP lose a friendship because she declined a party invitation? She isn't suggesting that she should tell the couple how rude and tacky this plan is.

2. I would not boycott a wedding, but we're not talking about a wedding. In this case, the wedding has already happened, secretly, to reap benefits from the government. The party is NOT a wedding, it is a fake reenactment, which is thrown so the bride can dress like a princess, get lots of attention, and rake in gifts from her and H's friends and family.

annathy03 · July 2013

NYCBruin said:

Liatris2010 said:

GlassButton said:

Am I the only one that finds these PPD threads old? There should be a sticky on here about it like dry weddings. @RickandSteph13: I agree with GypsyBride on this. Also, I don't get the big commotion over weddings that I'm starting to see. I always thought I was too into it until I came here. I viewed weddings as these great parties people throw. Yes, something's are odd and can be seen as rude, but if you were in this person's house would you throw a fit? I mean would you throw a fit if a friend of yours invited you to their house and served you chicken and coke? Would you demand they serve you wine if not they're imposing their beliefs on you? Would you throw a fit (in my culture we celebrate the 15th birthday party) if someone couldn't afford one and they invited you to it a year later? They're 16 at this point, but does it matter? They want to experience the party too. Yes you're 15 regardless of the huge party but some still wish to experience what it's like. I have no issue with this. I know it's just a few people, but these people need to get over themselves. It's just a party. It's not determining anything in your life or changing the world. Sorry for the rant RickandSteph13. I do agree with you though that they shouldn't lie about their martial statues though, but it sounds like they really do need the money. IMO the wrong they did was tell your husband when they thought he'd be a friend.

I view weddings as ceremonies in which people are wed. Fuck me right?

You don't have to pretend to get married to throw a fancy party. You can throw a party whenever the fuck you fell like.

I think I just had a breakthrough.

People who go to weddings to witness a couple get married in a ceremonies find PPDs offensive.

People who go to weddings just because they like free booze don't.

That clears a lot up.

This must be it! I don't mind when people have a primate or intimate ceremony and then invite me to a party to celebrate their wedding later, it's the lying and having me sit through a fake ceremony that's bullshit. Shit, one of my friends wore her dress to her at home reception (her DW was immediate family only) which is against etiquette and I didn't care because she didn't dress up a wedding party or do a first dance/bouquet toss/etc or most importantly make me sit through a play of them getting married. If you're up front and don't play pretend I'm happy to celebrate with you later, but if you lie to me and scam the government/taxpayers/me, I'm going to side-eye the shit out of it and not gift you anything because my tax dollars have already been doing that.

Am I being too judgemental??

Re: Am I being too judgemental??

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