Am I being too judgemental??

wrigleyville · July 2013

Jen4948 said:

It stands for "Pretty Princess Day."

What bothers most posters here about them is not so much the second, big celebration, but the fact that the couple is keeping their real status secret in order to claim the legal and social benefits of marriage while claiming that "they're not married" in a culture that doesn't require separate civil and religious marriages. It's lying about whether or not you are married or not, and taxpayers don't appreciate being expected to subsidize marriage benefits for people who are holding themselves socially out as "not married."

Actually, it all bothers me. If you're already married, you don't get to have a second wedding unless you get divorced. It's stupid.

I don't mind one bit if someone has a truly private ceremony with just their parents/siblings and witnesses and then decides to have a big party in their backyard or at a reception hall or something. As long as they don't pass it off as a wedding, that's cool, and I always bring a gift to congratulate them.

PrimRoseMama · July 2013

PrimRoseMama said:

I think its shady business for sure, but I mean, I don't know if I would boycott a wedding over it. Do I disagree? Yes. However, I don't know if its worth creating a stink or losing a friendship over it. Do you? Can someone explain why you would boycott a wedding over this?

What does PPD stand for?

1. Why would OP lose a friendship because she declined a party invitation? She isn't suggesting that she should tell the couple how rude and tacky this plan is.

2. I would not boycott a wedding, but we're not talking about a wedding. In this case, the wedding has already happened, secretly, to reap benefits from the government. The party is NOT a wedding, it is a fake reenactment, which is thrown so the bride can dress like a princess, get lots of attention, and rake in gifts from her and H's friends and family.

1.) Some Brides get all butthurt and sever friendships over it. I mean if this one is the type to try to get over about her marital status then I wouldn't put it past her to get all histrionic. Just a thought.

2.) Right, I agree with you that its not a "real wedding" but that doesn't mean that the Bride doesn't see it that way...

RickandSteph13 · July 2013

Wow this went on way longer than I thought it would. Lol I am glad to hear that I am not the only who feels this way. We have dropped any talk about the "wedding" for now. So I guess we will wait til we get the invitation to bridge whether I will be going or not! Thanks for all the input ladies!

antsinyourpants · July 2013

This is actually very, very common in military culture. I totally get that it's really awkward to the rest of us. But there is just a different set of social norms in the military.

If I were in your position, I would just ask myself, do I love these two people? Do these two people love me (and my fiance/husband)? If the answers are yes, then don't worry too much about what you and your man are doing versus what they are doing. Just be there to love and support them. In the end, that's really what matters.

antsinyourpants · July 2013

Well, it isn't bogus - it happens frequently and I have several close friends who have done this very thing. I can totally appreciate that not everyone would choose to do this. I know I personally wouldn't.

It would be silly to suggest that "everyone in the military" does one thing or another. And whether it's a recent trend or not, seems irrelevant. It exists now. And there are really lovely people who make the decision to do this.

Last time I checked, when I receive an invitation to something, the ball is in my court. I have the choice of participating or not participating. I guess if this scenario makes a person so angry that she can't let it go, then kindly decline.

Don't lose sleep over a decision that really doesn't affect you. That's all. Relax friends! :-)

NYCBruin · July 2013

antsinyourpants said:

Well, it isn't bogus - it happens frequently and I have several close friends who have done this very thing. I can totally appreciate that not everyone would choose to do this. I know I personally wouldn't.

It would be silly to suggest that "everyone in the military" does one thing or another. And whether it's a recent trend or not, seems irrelevant. It exists now. And there are really lovely people who make the decision to do this.

Last time I checked, when I receive an invitation to something, the ball is in my court. I have the choice of participating or not participating. I guess if this scenario makes a person so angry that she can't let it go, then kindly decline.

Don't lose sleep over a decision that really doesn't affect you. That's all. Relax friends! :-)

To the bolded, you were the one that implied "everyone in the military" does this and that it is part of military culture. Stage was pointing out that there are many military brides on this site who find PPDs offensive.

To your general point of, who cares and just don't go: well what about the people who do this and lie about it? How am I supposed to decline your invitation to a fake redo if you lied and told me it was a wedding?

kmmssg · July 2013

antsinyourpants said: This is actually very, very common in military culture. I totally get that it's really awkward to the rest of us. But there is just a different set of social norms in the military.
If I were in your position, I would just ask myself, do I love these two people? Do these two people love me (and my fiance/husband)? If the answers are yes, then don't worry too much about what you and your man are doing versus what they are doing. Just be there to love and support them. In the end, that's really what matters. @antsinyourpants - just so we have a proper introduction, I am a 26 year veteran and about to become a 4 time MOB some time next year. The military does not have a different set of social norms.

I have no issues with a PPD for deployment reasons if the couple is honest about everything. That thought is not shared with many at all here. That is absolutely fine. I have great respect for the ladies here.

At the beginning of this war, deployment notices were far far shorter than they are now. Units know (usually) a year out when they are going. In the beginning, I helped units get out the door and off to Iraq with 2-3 months (sometimes less) notice.

I have attended 4 PPD's within the last 10 years or so. 2 had all their contracts signed and the deployments were with very little notice. The other 2 - I have no idea where they were in their planning. They chose to get married quickly because at that time if you were not the next of kin, you would NOT be flown to Germany to your wounded Soldier at the gov't's expense. You were merely a girlfriend and not important and you could have no involvement in your Soldier's care or, sometimes, his burial.

Here is where I wish I had a bit better understanding of some regulations that changed. @PDHK, if you know the current rules I'd appreciate the shout out. I know some regulations were changed as far as who the military would transport to Germany or Walter Reed in the case of a wounded Soldier, but I don't know exactly what they are. Do you know if Fiance/Fiancees will be flown to their Soldier and housed at gov't expense like blood related next of kin? I think something was changed in that regard but I haven't been able to hit the right google term for it so far.

Anyhoo - I only buy off on this for deployment and if there is transparent honesty. The ones I have attended were packed houses with quite high echelons of the command's attending. There was no gossip during cocktail hour or in the ladies room. Of the 4 couples I know, fraud was never an intent and I do not believe they committed it. They were open with their commands, their families, and their friends. If they were committing fraud, their chains of command would have acted on it. I was happy to be partying with my buddy who was back home and safe. I think the others felt that way too.

I never heard of any showers or bach parties for these weddings either.

I am wondering if this all didn't get its start back when fiance's had no rights and the guys wanted them taken care of "just in case." One day you were venue shopping, and boom a month later you were on your way to Theater. It was very very different 10-11 years ago than it is now in terms of notice, and the way the military treats fiance's.

I am firmly of the belief that if you are lying about being married and keeping it a secret so everyone will come to your PPD you are violating the basic values of your branch of service. If your FI is going to Basic Training, that is a stupid reason for a PPD. If your FI just got orders for an unaccompanied tour somewhere for a year, that is a stupid reason for a PPD. The lower entry ranks of the service are NOT well paid and it is very hard to support a family. If he/she is together enough to make a go of it in the military, they "should" be together enough to wait until they can support a marriage.

Liars and secret keepers have no place in the military.

manateehugger · July 2013

Well said @kmmssg

As far as I know, no regulation change yet. But I know the military is making moves to give fiancee's/fiance's and domestic partners more recognition, so that might be a recent change. FI hasn't had notification of potential deployment since he has been FI, so I haven't looked into it TBH.

I'll still be an acquired dependent when get married though. Sigh.

kmmssg · July 2013

@pdhk - yes, but you will be one of loveliest acquired dependent's ever, I'm sure!

cwaggoner07 · July 2013

I would judge the heck out of them, and it would bother me to no end. However, if H wanted to go, there is no way I would stay behind on principle. I would let him decide, and follow his lead.

antsinyourpants · July 2013

It is a part of military culture - plenty of people do it. Just because something is a part of a particular culture doesn't imply that a) everyone condones it nor b) every single person within that culture does it. I didn't say either of those things and I'm not interested in implying anything other than what I say. But the truth is that there are things about military life that differ from civilian life.

For whatever it's worth, I was a very proud military wife for almost 10 years. I am simply giving you my perspective from my personal experience. I didn't do it nor would I have ever chosen to in a million years but I am still very good friends to this day, with a handful of couples who made choices like the one originally described here.

Regardless of whether anyone acknowledges that some military couples make this choice, if you don't want to be a part of something, my suggestion would be to simply decline...

"How am I supposed to decline your invitation to a fake redo if you lied and told me it was a wedding?"

It's easy... you just say no. Who cares what the reason is? It isn't about you. And if you feel so strongly that a person in your life is not trustworthy, well then I guess maybe it's time to let go of that relationship.

annathy03 · July 2013

antsinyourpants said:

It is a part of military culture - plenty of people do it. Just because something is a part of a particular culture doesn't imply that a) everyone condones it nor b) every single person within that culture does it. I didn't say either of those things and I'm not interested in implying anything other than what I say. But the truth is that there are things about military life that differ from civilian life.

For whatever it's worth, I was a very proud military wife for almost 10 years. I am simply giving you my perspective from my personal experience. I didn't do it nor would I have ever chosen to in a million years but I am still very good friends to this day, with a handful of couples who made choices like the one originally described here.

Regardless of whether anyone acknowledges that some military couples make this choice, if you don't want to be a part of something, my suggestion would be to simply decline...
"How am I supposed to decline your invitation to a fake redo if you lied and told me it was a wedding?"
It's easy... you just say no. Who cares what the reason is? It isn't about you. And if you feel so strongly that a person in your life is not trustworthy, well then I guess maybe it's time to let go of that relationship.

But you don't know to say no, because you don't know it's a redo/fake wedding, BECAUSE THEY ARE LYING ABOUT IT. I'm not sure why it's hard to understand that most of us here don't appreciate being lied to.

NYCBruin · July 2013

antsinyourpants said:

It is a part of military culture - plenty of people do it. Just because something is a part of a particular culture doesn't imply that a) everyone condones it nor b) every single person within that culture does it. I didn't say either of those things and I'm not interested in implying anything other than what I say. But the truth is that there are things about military life that differ from civilian life.

For whatever it's worth, I was a very proud military wife for almost 10 years. I am simply giving you my perspective from my personal experience. I didn't do it nor would I have ever chosen to in a million years but I am still very good friends to this day, with a handful of couples who made choices like the one originally described here.

Regardless of whether anyone acknowledges that some military couples make this choice, if you don't want to be a part of something, my suggestion would be to simply decline...
"How am I supposed to decline your invitation to a fake redo if you lied and told me it was a wedding?"
It's easy... you just say no. Who cares what the reason is? It isn't about you. And if you feel so strongly that a person in your life is not trustworthy, well then I guess maybe it's time to let go of that relationship.

Why would I say no if I thought it was an invitation to a real wedding because the couple LIED about their marital status? I would accept the invitation and be VERY UPSET to later learn that I hadn't actually witnessed their wedding and that the couple had LIED.

I don't understand why this is so difficult for you to grasp.

kmmssg · July 2013

@antsinyourpants - Lying about it is wrong every single time. NO service member should ever lie like that and misrepresent themselves. It completely negates their integrity.

manateehugger · July 2013

@antsinyourpants

I didn't realize being a liar, accepting dishonesty, and committing virtual fraud was part of military culture.

ETA: As a future military spouse, I am ashamed of your attitude for you. Military wives often get judged according to a stereotype. Believing that we are somehow exempt from the rules of common decency feeds that stereotype.

manateehugger · July 2013

Oh! And thanks Kssmmg! We're hoping for a CONUS PCS so I can be a lovely dependent who doesn't have to ship her own butt overseas.

kmmssg · July 2013

@PDKH - I hope you will post when you know where you will be. Are you getting married before the expected PCS?

manateehugger · July 2013

@kmmssg, we're expecting orders to PCS in February, but won't be married until June. I'm trying to wrap up my masters in the time being.

Were hoping for Carson or Lewis, but we'll see. I'll keep you updated.

kmmssg · July 2013

I hear the winters in Lewis are realy something, but I'm sure Carson is quite the snowy event to. Pack warm!

manateehugger · July 2013

Yep, lol. I go to school out in Colorado and about cried the first time I realized it would snow on and off through May.

RickandSteph13 · July 2013

Update : DHs friend just called and asked him to be his best man. DH accepted

SO it looks like I will be going to the "wedding". He is also having a bachelor party. Which annoys me since he is no longer a bachelor. But I'm assuming somone in his family is planning it and they don't know. So what do you do? Ugh. Grin and bear it,I guess.

NYCBruin · July 2013

RickandSteph13 said:

Update : DHs friend just called and asked him to be his best man. DH accepted SO it looks like I will be going to the "wedding". He is also having a bachelor party. Which annoys me since he is no longer a bachelor. But I'm assuming somone in his family is planning it and they don't know. So what do you do? Ugh. Grin and bear it,I guess.

Ick. I would plan to have some prior obligation the weekend of the "wedding." Maybe plan a trip to go see family members?

The bachelor thing really annoys me, too.

KeptInStitches · July 2013

Blech. Grin and bear it, I guess, but I'd side-eye the HELL out of all that for the entire duration of the event and no one could stop me.

wrigleyville · July 2013

A bach party?

Oh my GAWD... This is getting ridiculous.

artbyallie · July 2013

Can your husband play dumb and accidentally spill the beans? "Hey, about this bachelor party... should we maybe call it something else since he's not actually a bachelor? Oh, you didn't know they already got married? Oops..."

Am I being too judgemental??

Re: Am I being too judgemental??

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