An open letter to the Community from our Co-founder, Carley Roney

MoonlightSilver · August 2013

Of all the regulars, Stage and Linger were the most active in inviting new members to share their wedding details, talk about their pets, tell us about their jobs, etc. They spent the most time welcoming new members to the community, as far as I can remember. I'm appalled at how the KGs are demonizing them.

MuppetFan · August 2013

I understand the business decision to remove members of a forum when the atmosphere runs in contrast to the company's desire.

What I don't understand and find deplorable, is the incredibly unprofessional manner in which this happened. TK Gods befriended them, condoned and encouraged their behavior (even asking them to troll other boards), commiserated with them about other members, asked them for advice, and then even published their advice in The Knot magazine. This is all evident by the PM exchange that has been made public since the banning.

They followed the TOS, were not given warnings, were advised that flags were unwarranted, and were not given any indication that they should change behavior since TOS was released.

Essentially, you removed 2 active members of your community very abruptly, without giving them a chance to change their behavior or even say goodbye. You have created a rift now that has many members in an uproar because they valued those members, they are upset on principle, or both.

Furthermore, immediately upon announcing the decision to ban, regs who posted about it were mysteriously rendered silent during a "glitch". Whether this is a coincidence or not, you have to admit it appears suspicious and should be able to see how this added to the commotion.

swimmy1988 · August 2013

I was bullied for years on my appearance and my weight, which has led me to feel self conscious about a lot of things still.

Back when I first joined TK (a little over a year ago), I posted about wanting a cash bar. And yes, people gave their honest advice. My response "Oh wow, this is a strong response, cash bars are rude and tacky". I didn't go get butt hurt about it, although at first I tried to justify it. But I never once felt bullied. There's a HUGE difference between actual bullying, and what you KG's consider bullying.

AddieCake · August 2013

Amen, Muppet!

(Apologies if my saying "amen" offended any non-religious folks.)

dakotapa92 · August 2013

if you thought they were mean and "bullys" why are their comments still appearing? you guys seriously need to think out your lies before you spew them. Atleast try to make your crap legit.

grumbledore · August 2013

Seems like what really happened is that members who told the truth, particularly about other members' "preferences" as you put it, and gave good, solid advice (that you can find elsewhere as well, even in The Knot magazine!) were sent packing. I've seen far more rude and disrespectful comments from brides who are given honest, fair answers they didn't want to hear than I ever have from those giving the advice.

Also, this place has become really boring in the last week.

itzMS · August 2013

Okay, so regular posters who have received months if not years of solid advice here are to not give that same advice to new generations of brides?

Stage, Linger, and the crew that left several months ago helped me realize many things and be an awesome hostess for my guests.

Are the KG's going to be responding now to the requests for advice on the forum from new posters, and/or providing the regular posters with canned responses that we can give without fear of hurting someone's precious feelings?

It's just utterly confusing.

NYCBruin · August 2013

KGs, can you please define bullying?

It would be especially helpful if you gave us examples. Perhaps examples that led to Stage and Linger being banned.

I would like to know how I'm allowed to post if I'm going to stick around here.

nsweare · August 2013

I know I'll be the only one saying this, but I honestly don't care.

I have been absent from this site for several months because of the people you described. It made the site no fun and I was tired of how they treated people (including me). I still have no motivation to come back, but am glad to hear that the staff is working to take this site back.

I can't get out of the box!!!!! AAAAAGGGGHHHH!!!!!

Kristan, I'm really sorry you had bad experiences with certain posters. I get it. I agree that there were times that posters got out of hand. Personally, I've never had a problem with the tone of the posts, but everyone is different and reacts differently. I do hope you are able to enjoy the site again.

However, don't get too attached because you never know when someone is going to decide they don't like what you say and ban you without warning. Had the KGs actually been working with the banned users to change their tone and approach, I would feel differently. However, the KGs appear to be lying and that is NOT cool with me. NOT COOL AT ALL KGs!

HobokensFury · August 2013

Well said Muppet.

I guess I can see why it was done from a business standpoint but I'm with the others in being upset about the way it was done. Surely there has to be a better way to handle all of this.

rajahmd · August 2013

nsweare · August 2013

I would appreciate the higher ups acknowledging that they handled the "changes" inappropriately. That they made a mistake by not giving those posters an opportunity to "correct" their behavior and that going forward they will be doing x, y and z. An apology would go a long way. It would also be the mature and respectful thing to do.

MrsMack10612 · August 2013

I think this is just the KGs trying to save face. I didn't always get along with Stage or Linger, in fact had some heated discussions. But none of what they did was bullying.

Kristan - sorry that you had poor interactions with Linger, but by definition that makes you a bigot.

American Heritage Dictionary: Bigot: one who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

That is an example of someone getting their feelers hurt because someone told them the truth.

rajahmd · August 2013

NYCBruin · August 2013

TXKristan said:

nsweare, I could care less if I am banned. Really. I think this is my first time coming here in 2 weeks.

Your post history suggests otherwise.

NYCBruin · August 2013

TXKristan said:

MrsMack10612 said:

I think this is just the KGs trying to save face. I didn't always get along with Stage or Linger, in fact had some heated discussions. But none of what they did was bullying.

Kristan - sorry that you had poor interactions with Linger, but by definition that makes you a bigot.

American Heritage Dictionary: Bigot: one who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

That is an example of someone getting their feelers hurt because someone told them the truth.

Nice try. My belief that marriage should be one man and one woman doesn't make me intolerant. I tolerate and love people who have those attractions.

Here is bigotry: IF I believed that all people who are in same sex relationships are perverts who are sex crazed fiends. That is not at all the case.

But nice try. Really.

I really don't want to get into an argument with you over this. I'm sure upwards of 90% of the posters on this site would disagree. I also believe you have said that you think same sex relationships are sinful. That's bigoted.

If you want to talk about this on another thread, by all means create one. But I'm sure everyone would appreciate if you didn't turn this thread into a same sex marriage debate.

banana468 · August 2013

That may classify as name calling but not bullying.

BostonGIrl4732 · August 2013

TXKristan said:

@MrsMack10612 ,, here is my Facebook status the day DOMA was repealed. There are several TK regs here who are my FB friend and can confirm this. Is this bigoted??

I'm not educated enough regarding legal matters to know if I agree or disagree about the constitutionality of any legislation. What I do know is this - while I believe that marriage is meant to be between one man and one woman, I have many friends who are in love with someone of the same sex. I can't argue what they feel in their hearts regarding their sexual attraction.

I do find it unfair that our country associates so many rights to marriage, and I realize that it presents complications to same sex couples who wish our government to recognize their partner legally as their spouse.

All that said, I only ask this. Please, America, let me continue to be Catholic. Let me be able to speak with love regarding what my faith and I believe God intends for marriage. Let us continue to celebrate the sacrament of marriage and the family as we believe it to be. Let me be a Catholic.

What you post on FB and what you post on TK are two VERY different things. If you post bigoted ideas here, you're going to get called out for it. I don't care what you put on FB, it has NOTHING to do with TK.

AddieCake · August 2013

I can confirm that Kristan does not think same-sex relationships are sinful, and I have been party to discussions she has had with QF about it as well.

That being said, I agree this thread should not turn into rehashing this shit over again.

ETA: Whoops. I was wrong. Without going into details, I was a tad confused on Kristan's stance. Sorry, everybody!

MayDay513 · August 2013

TXKristan said:

NYCBruin said:

TXKristan said:

MrsMack10612 said:

I think this is just the KGs trying to save face. I didn't always get along with Stage or Linger, in fact had some heated discussions. But none of what they did was bullying.

Kristan - sorry that you had poor interactions with Linger, but by definition that makes you a bigot.

American Heritage Dictionary: Bigot: one who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

That is an example of someone getting their feelers hurt because someone told them the truth.

Nice try. My belief that marriage should be one man and one woman doesn't make me intolerant. I tolerate and love people who have those attractions.

Here is bigotry: IF I believed that all people who are in same sex relationships are perverts who are sex crazed fiends. That is not at all the case.

But nice try. Really.

I really don't want to get into an argument with you over this. I'm sure upwards of 90% of the posters on this site would disagree. I also believe you have said that you think same sex relationships are sinful. That's bigoted.

If you want to talk about this on another thread, by all means create one. But I'm sure everyone would appreciate if you didn't turn this thread into a same sex marriage debate.

Oh honey, I know about the ProBoards. I lurk. Thx though.

I thought you've been gone. How would you know about proboards?

NYCBruin · August 2013

TXKristan said:

@MrsMack10612 ,, here is my Facebook status the day DOMA was repealed. There are several TK regs here who are my FB friend and can confirm this. Is this bigoted??

I'm not educated enough regarding legal matters to know if I agree or disagree about the constitutionality of any legislation. What I do know is this - while I believe that marriage is meant to be between one man and one woman, I have many friends who are in love with someone of the same sex. I can't argue what they feel in their hearts regarding their sexual attraction.

I do find it unfair that our country associates so many rights to marriage, and I realize that it presents complications to same sex couples who wish our government to recognize their partner legally as their spouse.

All that said, I only ask this. Please, America, let me continue to be Catholic. Let me be able to speak with love regarding what my faith and I believe God intends for marriage. Let us continue to celebrate the sacrament of marriage and the family as we believe it to be. Let me be a Catholic.

I do hope you realize that you can still be a bigot and not say ONLY bigoted things.

And I second @banana468 that's name calling not bullying. Now if someone quoted every single post that you wrote and called you a bigot, then that would be bullying.

MuppetFan · August 2013

AddieL73 said:

I can confirm that Kristan does not think same-sex relationships are sinful, and I have been party to discussions she has had with QF about it as well.

That being said, I agree this thread should not turn into rehashing this shit over again.

This. Let's move on.

MrsMack10612 · August 2013

@NYCBruin - Thank you.

FTR - I was not trying to make it a same sex marriage debate. It was simply an example of the type of behavior that Linger (and Stage) are being villified for that presented itself.

smalfrie19 · August 2013

And I second @banana468 that's name calling not bullying. Now if someone quoted every single post that you wrote and called you a bigot, then that would be bullying.

Wait. To the bolded per xcalygrl's definition:

Verbal bullying is saying or writing mean things. Verbal bullying includes:
Teasing
Name-calling
Inappropriate sexual comments
Taunting
Threatening to cause harm

ETA: spelling

KeptInStitches · August 2013

I think if we're going to define "bullying" and include name-calling, there needs to be an element of ... intensity? I'm not really sure what word I'm looking for, but I would say there's a difference between calling someone's POV stupid or a bad idea or bigoted and calling that person stupid or bigoted. I would also say there's a difference between saying it once and following them around repeating it over and over.

I'm not calling anyone out here or trying to take sides. I'm just presenting a POV.

NYCBruin · August 2013

smalfrie19 said:

And I second @banana468 that's name calling not bullying. Now if someone quoted every single post that you wrote and called you a bigot, then that would be bullying.

Wait. To the bolded per xcalygrl's definition:

Verbal bullying is saying or writing mean things. Verbal bullying includes:
Teasing
Name-calling
Inappropriate sexual comments
Taunting
Threatening to cause harm

ETA: spelling

Pretty sure an isolated incident of name-calling is not bullying. Especially if the name being called is an accurate description.

Also several other posters also called TXKristan a bigot and weren't banned, so obviously the KGs did not consider that bullying.

smalfrie19 · August 2013

KeptInStitches said:

I think if we're going to define "bullying" and include name-calling, there needs to be an element of ... intensity? I'm not really sure what word I'm looking for, but I would say there's a difference between calling someone's POV stupid or a bad idea or bigoted and calling that person stupid or bigoted. I would also say there's a difference between saying it once and following them around repeating it over and over.

I'm not calling anyone out here or trying to take sides. I'm just presenting a POV.

I agree, but I feel like Bigot is quite a strong term, just like calling someone retarded or a cunt. But thats just my opinion...ie calling someone a poop head like we are in pre school, not reallly "name calling

KeptInStitches · August 2013

@NYCBruin, that love? Moi.

KDM323 · August 2013

TXKristan said:

NYCBruin said:

KGs, can you please define bullying?

It would be especially helpful if you gave us examples. Perhaps examples that led to Stage and Linger being banned.

I would like to know how I'm allowed to post if I'm going to stick around here.

Linger called me a bigot because of my personal beliefs on same sex marriage.

I've gone back and found the conversation. This was back on April 11th. And on the very thread that is in question, KnotJackie stated:

Hi ladies,

This is a very hot topic that I know everyone has a strong, personal opinion about.

I don't mean to state the obvious here, but we all need to know and understand that we are not going to agree with one another, and it is fine for others to share their opinions.

No one's thoughts are right, and no one's thoughts are wrong. Every one is entitled to their own feelings on this topic.

Please do not start attacking one another over opinions. Do not start calling each other out, begin to bully, or target anyone based on their beliefs.

Since the new TOS is not up yet, please consider this a warning and be wary of your responses.

Again, I respect everyone's opinions, I just do not support attacking.

Thanks,
Jackie

So...even *if* the debate back in April was part of the reason that members of this forum were banned from the site...Knot staff member stated that no one was right and no one was wrong and that there were no active TOS at the time so therefore NO members were in violation of any TOS.

Therefore, I'm not really seeing how re-hashing a heated political debate from April has ANYTHING to do with the current topic at hand.

AddieCake · August 2013

huynhette said:

I thought you've been gone. How would you know about proboards?

Probably b/c it's been mentioned on FB, where a bunch of us chit chat.

An open letter to the Community from our Co-founder, Carley Roney

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