An open letter to the Community from our Co-founder, Carley Roney

AllieBear725 · August 2013

http://www.buzzfeed.com/samimain/how-to-deal-with-bullies-on-the-internet

If everyone would just read this, there wouldn't be any problems!

+misslisa · August 2013

Perhaps The Knot Community would have more harmonious interactions on the forums if The Knot Magazine & Website stopped dishing out bad etiquette advice and validating poor choices. Indeed, it presents mixed messages when folks show up asking about what should be an obvious faux pas - promoted by The Knot - and are chided by posters.

I have made a number of glaring mistakes in my wedding planning because I followed the advice of industry websites. I have tremendous regrets because of this, and I can't take any of it back. So.

Thanks in advance from future brides for considering your culpability in these situations.

southernbelle0915 · August 2013

I know this has been dragging on for days, but I have some questions for @knotjackie @knotporscha @knotirene and Carley (probably won't read it) that I'm not totally clear on.

I was confused after this happened and I'm still a little confused. I really enjoy being on the forums and I'm a little spooked (I don't think I'm the only one) that I could just be banned at a moment's notice. So here are my questions:

1) What is the current process for banning a member?

2) If somebody wants their account deleted, you guys used to use show "deleted user" and the discussions and replies would still show. Now it's like when someone is deleted everything goes away. Can you please explain how this is being handled (I asked on SB the other day, but didn't really get an answer)? Follow up questions to this:

If entire threads are deleted with a user's account, do the replies, love its, flags, etc go with it? E.g. if UserA's account goes away and I commented 5 times, would my comments be erased?
If all of it is going away, I must protest - sometimes we come up with really thoughtful, time-filled responses that aren't just for the OP, but for lurkers alike. It's really frustrating to see it deleted. It's kinda like "why waste my time commenting on anything then?" KWIM?

That's all for now. I know I had other questions, but if I think of them I'll ask you later. TIA

KnotJackie · August 2013

1) I mentioned this somewhere previously, but, members will continue to receive warnings that will add up to bans moving forward. The situation last week was a very unique situation, as outlined, so please - understand that "normal" procedures will be followed.

2) If someone wants their account deleted, you will see "deleted user." If they request their content be deleted, their content will be deleted in threads - so conversations will just look a little wonky. However, if they were the OP on a thread, more than likely the thread will be removed from the system automatically taking everything with it. If an OP thread is removed, yes, counts will go down - but other than that, they will not be effected. I can look into some other options for this.

Thanks!

southernbelle0915 · August 2013

@knotjackie - thanks for responding and for the info!

Chipmunk415 · August 2013

My two cents regarding the bullying issue...

I was bullied throughout middle school and high school. I was focused on grades, hoping to go to a good college, participated in unpopular activites (brain bowl, swimming, and track) and didn't bow down to the football players and cheerleaders (no offense to anyone who participated in those activities, but they were basically the kings and queens of the social world at my high school, and they were nasty cruel people). I actually contemplated suicide, and I couldn't retaliate against these people verbally or otherwise, since the end result would be a black mark on my record and a possible lawsuit against my folks.

Despite one girl repeatedly calling me "slut" while pretending to cough, and others spreading lies that I'd fooled around with half the sports teams, I was never romantically or sexually involved with anyone in high school, which led to claims I was a lesbian in a very small, very conservative Christian community where being LGTB and out would be akin to painting a target on your back and giving everyone sniper rifles. Ever seen the movie Mean Girls? Try having more than a trio of them after you, all because the most popular girl in school got mad when you caught her plagerizing from your papers.

It didn't help that I had a level of bullying at home. Sure, my parents love me, and yes, they pushed me to get top grades because they knew in the long run it would help me in college and life to have good habits like that, but there was also a level of bullying from my Dad. Don't get me wrong, I love him, but he's received a lot of crap in his life from other people, and he always took out his temper on my mom and me. I grew up feeling very inferior, at times worthless, and stupid.

I am now observing bullying at work with a new administration where everyone's butt is on the line, and feedback as to whether you are doing something the way the higher ups want it is virtually nonexistent. I don't mind working hard, but this is steadily becoming a toxic environment- as much as I love the work I do, I'm considering looking for jobs in other areas because the office bullying is getting so bad.

I'm sharing all of this so the knot gods and others understand where I'm coming from when I say that I did not see bullying on the part of Linger or Stage. Did I occasionally post a potentially stupid wedding idea? yes. Did I take it personally when they said variations of "that's a very very bad idea," "your guests are adults and should be treated as such" and the like? No.

Perhaps once or twice did a response I read to anything I or others posted come across as rude, but I also realized that inflection, tone, and the little nuances that make the difference between polite firmness and rudeness are lost on the internet. The only time I have seen ANY of the regulars here on the Knot get anything close to nasty has been when 1) a bride has posted about a very poor idea (registry cards in with the invites, tiered receptions, b-lists, etc) 2) other brides have explained why it is a poor idea, 3) the original poster immediately got nasty with a "wtf would you know" attitude because her idea wasn't met with resounding approval, 4) posters responded in kind after a few rounds of trying to clarify.

I'm not demanding the posters who were removed be brought back (in fact, I doubt they would WANT to after this) but I am asking Ms. Roney and knotporsha, knotjackie, to please look back through the archives of posts, and see how often the situation I described above occurred. As a bride who has been bullied all her life, I was thrilled to find boards where women could discuss ideas, issues, or just vent about life and get support without serious judgment. I even enjoyed discussions on "snarky brides" where I didn't have to be PC 100% of the time and I could accept that while not everyone agreed with my ideas and opinions, I didn't have to agree with theirs but I could still connect with brides across the country who might have situations equal to my own.

That's all I've got.

WinstonsGirl · August 2013

Chipmunk, I don't think the Knotgods know what really bullying is, not do they really care at this point. I just find it funny that banned people have earned the 500+ "Love Its" badge (several times over actually) which reads "you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here". And I'm glad you've been able to get through the shit you've gone through growing up. Good luck with the job situation.

doeydo · August 2013

@KnotPorcha Awayet either has a virus or is spamming all the boards with this:

Awayet said:

my neighbor's sister-in-law makes $63/hr on the laptop. She has been out of work for ten months but last month her payment was $15416 just working on the laptop for a few hours. Read more on this site www.zen45.com

[Deleted User] · August 2013

@doeydo thank you! The user is removed.

MousyAesthete · August 2013

all: i haven't posted on the knot since i first got engaged (over a year ago) but back then i specifically remember being bullied by both retread and stagemanager (never heard of that other girl). i don't remember all of the details because i deleted that account shortly after, and because it was over a year ago.

the short end of it, i was having some wedding-related disagreements with a family member, and it was upsetting me and my husband. i posted to get advice on dealing with the situation. here is the behavior that i consider "bullying":

- name-calling

- one of them told me that my husband seemed "abusive" and that i should "think twice" about marrying him. they knew *nothing* about my husband except that he was upset by the drama and he advised that i limit contact with this family member (which ended up being good advice). he is a wonderful guy and most definitely not abusive. but they thought it was completely OK to publicly jump to the conclusion that he was abusive based on what little information they knew about him.

- when i deleted the post because it was getting so much negative attention, they re-posted my prior posts (no idea how they were able to do that, but i guess someone saved it somewhere) in order to mock me to others on the community forum. i found this horrifying because they were reposting my name and text without my permission, and there was nothing i could do about it. i understand that no one should put things on the internet that they don't want everyone to see, but sometimes people make mistakes. and good grief--- if a girl is getting overly emotional and gives away too much personal information, or says something she regrets, and wants to delete a post, she has a right to do this without having someone repost her entire posts again, *against her permission,* in order to "call her out".

i think this went well above and beyond someone telling me that what i was doing was simply not a good idea. they were trying to undermine my confidence in my husband, myself and also publicly humiliate me. i had very little communication on the forums, so the only reason why i was targeted was because of my perceived "awfulness" in having this disagreement with the family member.

like i said, this was over a year ago, and i don't know what happened as of late. my experience on these forums is also extremely limited. obviously these women had lots of friends here so i'm sure they were wonderful people, but the experience i had over a year ago was not pleasant. i did not report them or anything, but i am not surprised that they were banned. i thought sharing my story would help those who are confused about what constitutes "bullying" behavior that those users were engaged in..

i am now back on the knot because i have friends getting married and i wanted to support them

artbyallie · August 2013

MousyAesthete said:

all: i haven't posted on the knot since i first got engaged (over a year ago) but back then i specifically remember being bullied by both retread and stagemanager (never heard of that other girl). i don't remember all of the details because i deleted that account shortly after, and because it was over a year ago.

the short end of it, i was having some wedding-related disagreements with a family member, and it was upsetting me and my husband. i posted to get advice on dealing with the situation. here is the behavior that i consider "bullying":

- name-calling
- one of them told me that my husband seemed "abusive" and that i should "think twice" about marrying him. they knew *nothing* about my husband except that he was upset by the drama and he advised that i limit contact with this family member (which ended up being good advice). he is a wonderful guy and most definitely not abusive. but they thought it was completely OK to publicly jump to the conclusion that he was abusive based on what little information they knew about him.
Controlling who you interact with is a primary sign of abuse, and we can only go on what you post.
- when i deleted the post because it was getting so much negative attention, they re-posted my prior posts (no idea how they were able to do that, but i guess someone saved it somewhere) in order to mock me to others on the community forum. i found this horrifying because they were reposting my name and text without my permission, and there was nothing i could do about it. i understand that no one should put things on the internet that they don't want everyone to see, but sometimes people make mistakes. and good grief--- if a girl is getting overly emotional and gives away too much personal information, or says something she regrets, and wants to delete a post, she has a right to do this without having someone repost her entire posts again, *against her permission,* in order to "call her out".

Deleting your posts is bad netiquette, and once you put something out on the internet you have to expect it could be out there forever. The net never forgets. If you politely request to delete/have people delete your quotes because you have posted too much sensitive information, it tends to be much better received than simply running around deleting because you didn't like the responses.

i think this went well above and beyond someone telling me that what i was doing was simply not a good idea. they were trying to undermine my confidence in my husband, myself and also publicly humiliate me. i had very little communication on the forums, so the only reason why i was targeted was because of my perceived "awfulness" in having this disagreement with the family member.

like i said, this was over a year ago, and i don't know what happened as of late. my experience on these forums is also extremely limited. obviously these women had lots of friends here so i'm sure they were wonderful people, but the experience i had over a year ago was not pleasant. i did not report them or anything, but i am not surprised that they were banned. i thought sharing my story would help those who are confused about what constitutes "bullying" behavior that those users were engaged in..

i am now back on the knot because i have friends getting married and i wanted to support them

In summary, you were not 'targeted' nor 'bullied.' You overreacted.

Liatris2010 · August 2013

MousyAesthete said:

all: i haven't posted on the knot since i first got engaged (over a year ago) but back then i specifically remember being bullied by both retread and stagemanager (never heard of that other girl). i don't remember all of the details because i deleted that account shortly after, and because it was over a year ago.

the short end of it, i was having some wedding-related disagreements with a family member, and it was upsetting me and my husband. i posted to get advice on dealing with the situation. here is the behavior that i consider "bullying":

- name-calling
- one of them told me that my husband seemed "abusive" and that i should "think twice" about marrying him. they knew *nothing* about my husband except that he was upset by the drama and he advised that i limit contact with this family member (which ended up being good advice). he is a wonderful guy and most definitely not abusive. but they thought it was completely OK to publicly jump to the conclusion that he was abusive based on what little information they knew about him.
- when i deleted the post because it was getting so much negative attention, they re-posted my prior posts (no idea how they were able to do that, but i guess someone saved it somewhere) in order to mock me to others on the community forum. i found this horrifying because they were reposting my name and text without my permission, and there was nothing i could do about it. i understand that no one should put things on the internet that they don't want everyone to see, but sometimes people make mistakes. and good grief--- if a girl is getting overly emotional and gives away too much personal information, or says something she regrets, and wants to delete a post, she has a right to do this without having someone repost her entire posts again, *against her permission,* in order to "call her out".

i think this went well above and beyond someone telling me that what i was doing was simply not a good idea. they were trying to undermine my confidence in my husband, myself and also publicly humiliate me. i had very little communication on the forums, so the only reason why i was targeted was because of my perceived "awfulness" in having this disagreement with the family member.

like i said, this was over a year ago, and i don't know what happened as of late. my experience on these forums is also extremely limited. obviously these women had lots of friends here so i'm sure they were wonderful people, but the experience i had over a year ago was not pleasant. i did not report them or anything, but i am not surprised that they were banned. i thought sharing my story would help those who are confused about what constitutes "bullying" behavior that those users were engaged in..

i am now back on the knot because i have friends getting married and i wanted to support them

I fail to see how that is bullying. To me it sounds like advice you didn't think was good or didn't like. Hearing advice you don't like, disagree with, or decide not to take is not bullying.

Bullying would be if people read your post, decided your husband was a jerk, figured out your address from a siggy pic of your house, and called the police to your home because of an imagined domestic disturbance. Bullying would be sending you multiple messages encouraging you to dump him and calling you stupid or weak for not doing so. Reading what you post and then giving an opinion based on the information you chose to share isn't bullying. If you don't want opinions, you shouldn't ask for them.

As for your friends, if they need support to get through their engagement, they probably shouldn't be getting married.

Here's a rainbow kitten, so you don't think I've bullied them:

Liatris2010 · August 2013

MuppetOverlord · August 2013

MousyAesthete said:

all: i haven't posted on the knot since i first got engaged (over a year ago) but back then i specifically remember being bullied by both retread and stagemanager (never heard of that other girl). i don't remember all of the details because i deleted that account shortly after, and because it was over a year ago.

the short end of it, i was having some wedding-related disagreements with a family member, and it was upsetting me and my husband. i posted to get advice on dealing with the situation. here is the behavior that i consider "bullying":

- name-calling
- one of them told me that my husband seemed "abusive" and that i should "think twice" about marrying him. they knew *nothing* about my husband except that he was upset by the drama and he advised that i limit contact with this family member (which ended up being good advice). he is a wonderful guy and most definitely not abusive. but they thought it was completely OK to publicly jump to the conclusion that he was abusive based on what little information they knew about him.
- when i deleted the post because it was getting so much negative attention, they re-posted my prior posts (no idea how they were able to do that, but i guess someone saved it somewhere) in order to mock me to others on the community forum. i found this horrifying because they were reposting my name and text without my permission, and there was nothing i could do about it. i understand that no one should put things on the internet that they don't want everyone to see, but sometimes people make mistakes. and good grief--- if a girl is getting overly emotional and gives away too much personal information, or says something she regrets, and wants to delete a post, she has a right to do this without having someone repost her entire posts again, *against her permission,* in order to "call her out".

i think this went well above and beyond someone telling me that what i was doing was simply not a good idea. they were trying to undermine my confidence in my husband, myself and also publicly humiliate me. i had very little communication on the forums, so the only reason why i was targeted was because of my perceived "awfulness" in having this disagreement with the family member.

like i said, this was over a year ago, and i don't know what happened as of late. my experience on these forums is also extremely limited. obviously these women had lots of friends here so i'm sure they were wonderful people, but the experience i had over a year ago was not pleasant. i did not report them or anything, but i am not surprised that they were banned. i thought sharing my story would help those who are confused about what constitutes "bullying" behavior that those users were engaged in..

i am now back on the knot because i have friends getting married and i wanted to support them

Sorry, I posted things about my (now) ex husband on TK years ago and was told I should leave him. I didn't think what I wrote was all that revealing about my life and I thought, "how dare they assume and not help me fix the problem" but what you don't realize is exactly how revealing it is. After a few weeks, I realized they were right. I was just in the wrong relationship.

Maybe it was or was not accurate for you but I'd rather people say what's on their mind in case it is.

If you stuck around, you would've learned to be a lot more careful about the construction of your posts to reveal exactly what you want to communicate and the you would've had no more assumptions. People can only go by what they are given

kjlamb · August 2013

soontobehanby · August 2013

My first post on the knot was a bitchy complaint about my bridesmaid who picked the date before me. I was all hung about how she was trying over shadow me. Some girls put me in my place. I remember complaining about how mean all these girls were! Then I kept reading the thread. I read it probably 20 times. I realized they were SO right! I was being insane! I have been hooked on this site ever since and that was almost a year ago. Had these girls not put me in my place, I would have kicked that bm out of my party and destroyed a friendship.

soontobehanby · August 2013

Also, I tell everyone who gets engaged about this board. I warn that it might be harsh at first but to stick with it.

WildMagelet · August 2013

My first post was about trying to figure out a non-harmful way to incorporate live fish into my reception. (Which in hindsight is totally embarrassing). I'm all for blunt people who educate new posters. That's why I stuck around this community in the first place. People mature enough to get married should be mature enough to take criticism without being "crushed" by strangers on the internet.

Dreamergirl8812 · October 2013

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/04/living/schools-bullying-definition-overuse/index.html?hpt=hp_c4

In the last few months, the word rippled through news reports of tragic teen suicides in Connecticut, New York, Nova Scotia and Britain.

It's the same word sometimes used to describe the way reality TV stars treat one another on camera, or how unfriendly office mates interact or why grade school pals stop getting along.

Every parent, teacher and child knows the word: "bullying." But this month, as schools and communities launch fresh campaigns around National Bullying Prevention Month, some are urging more precise use of the B-word.

"Bullying," some researchers say, has been misused and abused in the last few years -- too casually uttered about every hurt, slight and fight, too frequently used in place of "teasing" or "fighting," too often brought up before there's proof it happened.

...

Legu · October 2013

I posted a horrendous idea when I first joined the knot, and got all sorts of "rude" responses from regs.

Then I re-read what had happened, and realised that said regs didn't have my best interests at heart, but those of everyone at my wedding, and were actually very thoughtful with what they had said.

I then lurked around for a bit, and saw how very often these same ideas get posted about, and how sickening it must be for these people to have to talk down the horrible plans day after day after post after post.

After that, I realised how patient and committed these regs were, and how valuable they could be to people who (like myself) take stupid ideas for granted because that's what we've always known.

For example... In the UK it seems extremely normal to have a ceremony with some people, and then a bigger reception. Not in a "private" way, in a "tiered" way.
After seeing time and time again exactly what the regs have to say about this, I have realised how rude and pointless this is. Had I not seen the "brutal honesty" of the regs, I probably would have done it myself.

I think it's a shame that most of the regs have either gone quiet, mostly lurk, and occasionally post under a new name, or, have simply left altogether.

An open letter to the Community from our Co-founder, Carley Roney

Re: An open letter to the Community from our Co-founder, Carley Roney

Choose Another Board

Search Boards