Better to wait until engagement/marriage to live together.

loves2shop4shoes · September 2013

phira said:

istril said:

phira said:

... But living together will not lead to an eventual divorce. It is not something that's for less committed couples. It's not a way to pretend to be committed.
I beg to differ, on the last bit at least. I think there are plenty of people, who, sadly, use this as a way to pretend to be committed. I used to live with one. In fact, this is the crux of the argument, as I see it.

I have to restate this: Living together is NOT a pretend way to be committed. It is an actual, real commitment. It might not have been the commitment you were looking for (and I'm not saying that you should have been satisfied with that relationship), but it is absolutely a real commitment.

I'm always annoyed by bad research and by social expectations that are damaging and not realistic. Again, it would be one thing for you say, "I do not want to live with someone until we're engaged." But you've been arguing that in general (aka not JUST you and your partner), it's better for people to move in together only when they're committed to getting married. I vehemently disagree.

Agree with @phira. When you move in together, you commit to sharing household responsibilities, disclosing finances, and sharing every aspect of your lives with one another. When you get married, it's really the same, except you commit to sharing all of those things FOREVER. Engagement is merely the formal declaration that you will be getting married, and is the period when you plan the wedding.

Moving in together is a commitment. You don't just share your finances with a SO that you're lukewarm about.

loves2shop4shoes · September 2013

Also, OP, regarding my last sentence being "mean"...yes, it was. It was also meant to make a statement, and a loud one. Would YOU really be into you?

Think about where you are now. You are in a "happy" relationship, but you're moving forward with your head looking back (Dante's Inferno style).

You're punishing your current BF for the mistakes of your ex. Is that really fair? From ALL of your posts, it seems like your BF is more A person to marry/get you KTFU than he is a SPECIAL person. That's bothersome. You're looking for a life partner/soul mate (if you believe in that), not a sperm donor.

At your age, you still haven't figured out how to communicate effectively in relationships. Your BF, who if I'm not mistaken previously knew your "rules" about moving in together, AGAIN asked you last you spoke if you wanted to move in. Don't you think this suggests that he wants to move in before engagement? Why do only YOUR feelings matter?

Honestly, you would do well to focus all of your energy on your communication skills instead of on this nonsense research. Whether you are cognizant of it or not, all you are doing is trying to find some scientific explanation of why your relationship of 11 years failed.

Are you even sure you're over your ex?

[Deleted User] · September 2013

psychbabe314, When I read your post last night, for some reason I thought it had links in it to follow. Sorry, I was tired. But thanks for posting the research summaries.

phira said:
But you've been arguing that in general (aka not JUST you and your partner), it's better for people to move in together only when they're committed to getting married. I vehemently disagree.

Point taken. I can see how it came across this way. To clarify, I guess I have been arguing this, but only IF marriage in general is a goal (and a priority) for the person in question. I do want to reiterate that I made my choices for me, and realize that everyone's situation is different.

Anyway, I realized that for me, the bottom line is that the primary reason I would agree to live with someone is to test out marital compatibility. I'm not interested in living with someone "just because," my goal is to get married. So, I guess this is why engagement seemed like such a natural criteria for me. If someone has enough reservations about our relationship that engagement makes them nervous BEFORE we move in together, then I think whatever those issues are, need to be addressed first.

I guess to me, someone whose goal is ultimately marriage, and who wants to live with someone as a way to test out marriage, it just seems like putting the cart before the horse to move in together first before we have established that yes, we want to get married someday.

This sounds a lot like what many of you have said--the difference is whether or not you've attached the term "engaged" to it. So maybe the real question here is what does being engaged mean to you?

If marriage is a goal of yours,
And you are living with someone because you wanted to test your compatibility for marriage,
But you aren't engaged,

What has kept you from getting engaged? I don't mean this to sound like a challenge at all, I'm honestly curious.

For me, if he said he wants to try out living together to see if we are compatible for marriage, but doesn't want to call it an engagement, my reaction is, "Why not? What is making you apprehensive?" There will be plenty of problems that come up when you live with someone, I want to make sure we don't go into that situation with any serious, unrealized doubts.

I realize I've been sort of alone over here on this side of the discussion so far, but I appreciate the intelligent responses and thoughtful disagreement I've gotten from people, this has prompted a lot of soul-searching from me this week.

The unhelpful antagonism, on the other hand, has been discouraging.

minskat30 · September 2013

phira said:

istril said:

phira said:

... But living together will not lead to an eventual divorce. It is not something that's for less committed couples. It's not a way to pretend to be committed.
I beg to differ, on the last bit at least. I think there are plenty of people, who, sadly, use this as a way to pretend to be committed. I used to live with one. In fact, this is the crux of the argument, as I see it.
I have to restate this: Living together is NOT a pretend way to be committed. It is an actual, real commitment. It might not have been the commitment you were looking for (and I'm not saying that you should have been satisfied with that relationship), but it is absolutely a real commitment.

I'm always annoyed by bad research and by social expectations that are damaging and not realistic. Again, it would be one thing for you say, "I do not want to live with someone until we're engaged." But you've been arguing that in general (aka not JUST you and your partner), it's better for people to move in together only when they're committed to getting married. I vehemently disagree.

I agree with @phira here. Your expectations about moving in with a partner are exactly what you make of it. When my ex and I moved in together, we did not have an expectation that it would directly lead to marriage though we were committed to one another in our relationship...that relationship ended not because we moved in together but because I realized, after living with my ex, that there were certain fundamental things about him I didn't know before we lived together that I couldn't live with for the rest of my life (and THANK GOD we lived together so I could figure that out). That didn't make me any less committed to him while living together but, after learning what I did about him, I couldn't marry him. When H and I moved in together, before being engaged, we both made it clear to one another that this was a step towards marriage. Sure enough, a few weeks later, we got engaged. Even if we hadn't gotten engaged so shortly after moving in together, I still viewed moving in together as a commitment to share our lives/finances/goals/etc for the rest of our lives (unlike my ex) and so did he. Just because you had a bad experience with your previous ex not being on the same page (or lying about it, whatever is applicable), doesn't mean that experience should dictate the experience you are in now. Its about communication with your partner and understanding each others' expectations and timelines (and is not one sided).

KeptInStitches · September 2013

Ok, @istril, I'll play. BF and I are absolutely convinced we're going to get engaged and get married, and probably within the next couple of years. You can make the determination you're going to get married without being engaged yet. I still feel like you're convinced that this can't be done without engagement.

We don't live together yet, but we're trying to find a place right now. It's hard where we are with two cats to find an apartment, and we're not sure we're going to be in this town next year.

We're not engaged right now because it isn't the right time. We're not interested in a very long engagement, and we want to get engaged when we're realistically in a position to plan a wedding.

loves2shop4shoes · September 2013

What has kept you from getting engaged? I don't mean this to sound like a challenge at all, I'm honestly curious.

For me, if he said he wants to try out living together to see if we are compatible for marriage, but doesn't want to call it an engagement, my reaction is, "Why not? What is making you apprehensive?" There will be plenty of problems that come up when you live with someone, I want to make sure we don't go into that situation with any serious, unrealized doubts.

This is where the logic fail lies. If you live together for the PURPOSE of seeing IF you are compatible for marriage, this is not an engagement. The purpose of an engagement is to declare that you ARE getting married and is the amount of time you allot yourselves to PLAN the wedding.

Engagement is NOT a marriage compatibility trial period. You only get engaged AFTER you've DETERMINED that you are compatible for marriage.

minskat30 · September 2013

loves2shop4shoes said:

What has kept you from getting engaged? I don't mean this to sound like a challenge at all, I'm honestly curious.

For me, if he said he wants to try out living together to see if we are compatible for marriage, but doesn't want to call it an engagement, my reaction is, "Why not? What is making you apprehensive?" There will be plenty of problems that come up when you live with someone, I want to make sure we don't go into that situation with any serious, unrealized doubts.

This is where the logic fail lies. If you live together for the PURPOSE of seeing IF you are compatible for marriage, this is not an engagement. The purpose of an engagement is to declare that you ARE getting married and is the amount of time you allot yourselves to PLAN the wedding.

Engagement is NOT a marriage compatibility trial period. You only get engaged AFTER you've DETERMINED that you are compatible for marriage.

All of the this. This is exactly why my ex and I didn't get engaged (we both wanted a trial run to see if we were compatible for marriage and we were not) and exactly why my H and I got engaged (we were determined that we were compatible for marriage) after living together .

GoldenPenguin · September 2013

istril said:

psychbabe314, When I read your post last night, for some reason I thought it had links in it to follow. Sorry, I was tired. But thanks for posting the research summaries.

phira said:
But you've been arguing that in general (aka not JUST you and your partner), it's better for people to move in together only when they're committed to getting married. I vehemently disagree.

Point taken. I can see how it came across this way. To clarify, I guess I have been arguing this, but only IF marriage in general is a goal (and a priority) for the person in question. I do want to reiterate that I made my choices for me, and realize that everyone's situation is different.

Anyway, I realized that for me, the bottom line is that the primary reason I would agree to live with someone is to test out marital compatibility. I'm not interested in living with someone "just because," my goal is to get married. So, I guess this is why engagement seemed like such a natural criteria for me. If someone has enough reservations about our relationship that engagement makes them nervous BEFORE we move in together, then I think whatever those issues are, need to be addressed first.

I guess to me, someone whose goal is ultimately marriage, and who wants to live with someone as a way to test out marriage, it just seems like putting the cart before the horse to move in together first before we have established that yes, we want to get married someday.

This sounds a lot like what many of you have said--the difference is whether or not you've attached the term "engaged" to it. So maybe the real question here is what does being engaged mean to you?

If marriage is a goal of yours,
And you are living with someone because you wanted to test your compatibility for marriage,
But you aren't engaged,
What has kept you from getting engaged? I don't mean this to sound like a challenge at all, I'm honestly curious.

For me, if he said he wants to try out living together to see if we are compatible for marriage, but doesn't want to call it an engagement, my reaction is, "Why not? What is making you apprehensive?" There will be plenty of problems that come up when you live with someone, I want to make sure we don't go into that situation with any serious, unrealized doubts.

I realize I've been sort of alone over here on this side of the discussion so far, but I appreciate the intelligent responses and thoughtful disagreement I've gotten from people, this has prompted a lot of soul-searching from me this week.

The unhelpful antagonism, on the other hand, has been discouraging.

1. You can establish that you want to get married without getting engaged. In fact, you SHOULD have a discussion about both parties wanting the same things out of life & marriage BEFORE getting engaged.

2. Being engaged is the time to plan a wedding. That could be a month, a year, or five years. But, again, you can be committed to getting married someday WITHOUT being engaged.

3. Nothing has "kept" us from getting engaged. We are just not at that point yet. We haven't even been together for a year yet (that will be at the end of this month), and that's just not where we are. But there isn't "reason" for us not being engaged.

4. The better question is what are you apprehensive about when it comes to living with him before an engagement. You learn a lot about someone when you live with them - good and bad. One of my friends and I are GREAT friends when we live separately - but when we live together we can't stand each other. That could very well happen with a significant other as well. I've learned lots of new things about my boyfriend since moving in with him - and although nothing that makes me NOT want to marry him someday, I realize that those things CAN happen, which is why I wanted to live with him before making a life-long commitment. I would rather figure that out NOW, than after announcing an engagement.

[Deleted User] · September 2013

loves2shop4shoes said:

This is where the logic fail lies. If you live together for the PURPOSE of seeing IF you are compatible for marriage, this is not an engagement. The purpose of an engagement is to declare that you ARE getting married and is the amount of time you allot yourselves to PLAN the wedding.

Engagement is NOT a marriage compatibility trial period. You only get engaged AFTER you've DETERMINED that you are compatible for marriage.

This perspective of engagement is very different from mine... why is mine wrong, though? (logic fail)? And by this definition, yes, I can TOTALLY see why someone would disagree very strongly with what I've been saying. I'm not operating under this definition, though.

KeptInStitches said:

You can make the determination you're going to get married without being engaged yet. I still feel like you're convinced that this can't be done without engagement.

You probably feel that way because I said so.

Yes, this is currently my opinion, which is why I've solicited other viewpoints. I'm wondering if my opinion needs some revision.

KeptInStitches said:

We're not engaged right now because it isn't the right time. We're not interested in a very long engagement, and we want to get engaged when we're realistically in a position to plan a wedding.

So I take it that you view engagement as time to plan the wedding as well?

Interesting. I always thought of engagement as the "we want to know if marriage will work and if it does we are getting married at the end of this phase" phase.

This is all starting to make a LOT more sense.

loves2shop4shoes said:

Also, OP, regarding my last sentence being "mean"...yes, it was. It was also meant to make a statement, and a loud one. Would YOU really be into you?

Think about where you are now. You are in a "happy" relationship, but you're moving forward with your head looking back (Dante's Inferno style).

You're punishing your current BF for the mistakes of your ex. Is that really fair? From ALL of your posts, it seems like your BF is more A person to marry/get you KTFU than he is a SPECIAL person. That's bothersome. You're looking for a life partner/soul mate (if you believe in that), not a sperm donor.

At your age, you still haven't figured out how to communicate effectively in relationships. Your BF, who if I'm not mistaken previously knew your "rules" about moving in together, AGAIN asked you last you spoke if you wanted to move in. Don't you think this suggests that he wants to move in before engagement? Why do only YOUR feelings matter?

Honestly, you would do well to focus all of your energy on your communication skills instead of on this nonsense research. Whether you are cognizant of it or not, all you are doing is trying to find some scientific explanation of why your relationship of 11 years failed.

Are you even sure you're over your ex?

Since gifs seem to be the appropriate response to something like this on this board...

Swazzle · September 2013

en·gage·ment

enˈgājmənt/

noun

1.
a formal agreement to get married.
synonyms: marriage contract; datedbetrothal;
archaicespousal
"they broke off their engagement"

[Deleted User] · September 2013

BriSox81 said:
1. You can establish that you want to get married without getting engaged. In fact, you SHOULD have a discussion about both parties wanting the same things out of life & marriage BEFORE getting engaged.

I'm starting to see a trend here!

Thank you for sharing all this. It makes perfect sense, when you view engagement as an "announcement". Which... I guess makes me the outlier. I'm beginning to realize the the way I view engagement is different from most people.

BTW, guys, I'm not punishing my boyfriend. He asked me if I wanted him to move in with me because we were talking about this very topic, and why we might decide to go one way or the other. It wasn't him requesting to move in, it was him feeling out my thoughts on the matter. Sorry if that wasn't clear from the context. In the end, he is very supportive and agrees with the idea of moving in after engagement. So yeah. Not punishing. He agrees. We're happy. Or "happy" as @loves2shop4shoes puts it.

Swazzle · September 2013

Engagement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engagement‎

An engagement or betrothal is a promise to marry.

phira · September 2013

I'm still emphasizing that living together is a commitment, and one that can be meaningful even if you don't expect marriage down the line.

My partner and I both discussed the future while we were dating (at the beginning). We knew that at that time, both of us were looking to date for a while, live together, and get married and have kids somewhere down the line. However, when we made the decision to move in together, it wasn't even, "Let's have a trial run!" It was, "I love you, and I want to spend as much time with you as possible. With the Boston rental market being completely shit-tastic, the odds of us getting affordable apartments close to each other are next to nothing. Do you want to live together and see how that goes?"

And again, my issue here is that I find it laughable that the best way to move in with someone--for everyone--is if you've decided for sure you're going to get married and you've begun planning your wedding. What works for you does not necessarily work for everyone, and until you stop making generalizations, I'm gonna keep pointing out the flaws in your argument.

CLoGreenEyes · September 2013

This whole conversation is making want to show up at BF's house with all my worldly possessions and announce that we will now be living in sin. And neither of us cares if we live together before marriage. Just sayin'.

istril said:
Interesting. I always thought of engagement as the "we want to know if marriage will work and if it does we are getting married at the end of this phase" phase.

So you would move in with him after there was a ring on it. But you still don't know if the marriage will work, so you're taking time to test it out - by moving in together after getting engaged. The only difference I see here is a piece of jewelry and a change to your Facebook relationship status.

[Deleted User] · September 2013

Thank you swazzle. I viewed engagement as an intention to marry. Subtle distinction, but, if you think about it, important, and explains, I hope, some of my views.

psychbabe314 · September 2013

@istril I wish I could provide links but most people would not be able to access them as it is an online database available to students at my school containing articles and research done by the psychologists and scientists. I tried google, but nothing seemed available with the same authors on the same topic.
Also, to answer your question
Personally, I think this argument actually makes me want to live with my BF more. The research about having an easier time easing into your marriage seemed interesting to me. But, when I read your first article too, it made sense. Some people feel as if it they can't break up once they live together, but I think it can work both ways too. I've heard friends before say that they can't break up with someone because they are afraid that no one else will love them. I guess you could say it is a two way street, from my personal experience perspective anyways.

loves2shop4shoes · September 2013

Why would someone (traditionally) spend thousands of dollars on an engagement ring so that they could start a marriage compatibility trial phase? Wouldn't you want to be sure that you wanted to get married (and were compatible) BEFORE you dropped that kind of cash?

If you simply Google "engagement", the first thing that pops up is the definition, "A formal agreement to get married," not "a formal agreement to test out marital compatibility."

And, my GIF to you.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/wiq5h1.gif

ETA: If you've both said "soon", doesn't that express intent, and therefore make you engaged by your definition?

beanbot2002 · September 2013

I know I've got my grumpy maternity pants on and all, but FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! I love puppies, and you're making me want to kick some! I think it's been pretty established that NO ONE HERE AGREES WITH YOUR VIEWPOINT OR THE SHIT POOPY ARTICLES YOU CITED TO BACK UP YOUR EQUALLY SHITTY VIEWPOINT. FOR FUCKS SAKE STOP TRYING TO SHOVE IT DOWN OUR MOTHER LOVING THROATS!

Jesus. Someone get me some unicorns with red eyes, please.

Riss2893 · September 2013

loves2shop4shoes said:

Why would someone (traditionally) spend thousands of dollars on an engagement ring so that they could start a marriage compatibility trial phase? Wouldn't you want to be sure that you wanted to get married (and were compatible) BEFORE you dropped that kind of cash?

If you simple Google "engagement", the first thing that pops up is the definition, "A formal agreement to get married," not "a formal agreement to test out marital compatibility."

And, my GIF to you.

http://reactiongifs.com/?p=12578

All of this.

GoldenPenguin · September 2013

beanbot2002 said:

I know I've got my grumpy maternity pants on and all, but FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! I love puppies, and you're making me want to kick some! I think it's been pretty established that NO ONE HERE AGREES WITH YOUR VIEWPOINT OR THE SHIT POOPY ARTICLES YOU CITED TO BACK UP YOUR EQUALLY SHITTY VIEWPOINT. FOR FUCKS SAKE STOP TRYING TO SHOVE IT DOWN OUR MOTHER LOVING THROATS!

Jesus. Someone get me some unicorns with red eyes, please.

THIS.

Considering YOU are the ONLY ONE here who thinks that an engagement is a "trial run" on a marriage - you would think you'd get the message that you're the odd one out with a fucking ridiculous concept of what being engaged means.

Swazzle · September 2013

beanbot2002 said:

I know I've got my grumpy maternity pants on and all, but FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! I love puppies, and you're making me want to kick some! I think it's been pretty established that NO ONE HERE AGREES WITH YOUR VIEWPOINT OR THE SHIT POOPY ARTICLES YOU CITED TO BACK UP YOUR EQUALLY SHITTY VIEWPOINT. FOR FUCKS SAKE STOP TRYING TO SHOVE IT DOWN OUR MOTHER LOVING THROATS!

Jesus. Someone get me some unicorns with red eyes, please.

[Deleted User] · September 2013

Amapola14 said:
So you would move in with him after there was a ring on it. But you still don't know if the marriage will work, so you're taking time to test it out - by moving in together after getting engaged, if memory serves. The only difference I see here is a piece of jewelry and a change to your Facebook relationship status.

YES. I'm calling it engaged, everyone else is calling it dating seriously or something like that, but essentially, it's the same thing. This is part of why I've been pulling my hair out.

No one ever "knows" if the marriage will work, there are just different degrees of certainty. To me, my degree of certainty to call it engagement was the point at which we are serious enough to move in together as a test run before getting married. Everyone else seems to feel that their degree of certainty to call it engagement is further down the line, AFTER you have tested that out.

This entire discussion seems to have been, at least largely, about semantics, afterall. Sigh.

@Phira, none of my points apply to someone who isn't expecting marriage. They only make sense if you ARE expecting marriage. And I'm puzzled at your insistence that I'm making generalizations that apply to everyone. I've stressed several times that I appreciate that everyone is an individual and no one course of action is best for everyone, in fact I've urged people NOT to make generalizations from research to their own specific scenarios. Research can teach us about principles of human behavior, not hard and fast rules. And my opinions, are of course, mine. I never said they were best for everyone else.

buddysmom80 · September 2013

beanbot2002 said:

I know I've got my grumpy maternity pants on and all, but FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! I love puppies, and you're making me want to kick some! I think it's been pretty established that NO ONE HERE AGREES WITH YOUR VIEWPOINT OR THE SHIT POOPY ARTICLES YOU CITED TO BACK UP YOUR EQUALLY SHITTY VIEWPOINT. FOR FUCKS SAKE STOP TRYING TO SHOVE IT DOWN OUR MOTHER LOVING THROATS!

Jesus. Someone get me some unicorns with red eyes, please.

Ask and you shall receive:

Riss2893 · September 2013

I know I've got my grumpy maternity pants on and all, but FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! I love puppies, and you're making me want to kick some! I think it's been pretty established that NO ONE HERE AGREES WITH YOUR VIEWPOINT OR THE SHIT POOPY ARTICLES YOU CITED TO BACK UP YOUR EQUALLY SHITTY VIEWPOINT. FOR FUCKS SAKE STOP TRYING TO SHOVE IT DOWN OUR MOTHER LOVING THROATS!

Jesus. Someone get me some unicorns with red eyes, please.

I died.

[Deleted User] · September 2013

BriSox81 said:
Considering YOU are the ONLY ONE here who thinks that an engagement is a "trial run" on a marriage - you would think you'd get the message that you're the odd one out with a fucking ridiculous concept of what being engaged means.

... I did.

istril said:
Thank you for sharing all this. It makes perfect sense, when you view engagement as an "announcement". Which... I guess makes me the outlier. I'm beginning to realize the the way I view engagement is different from most people.

You guys are mean.

poegirlsmores · September 2013

I guess to me, someone whose goal is ultimately marriage, and who wants to live with someone as a way to test out marriage, it just seems like putting the cart before the horse to move in together first before we have established that yes, we want to get married someday.

This sounds a lot like what many of you have said--the difference is whether or not you've attached the term "engaged" to it. So maybe the real question here is what does being engaged mean to you?

If marriage is a goal of yours,
And you are living with someone because you wanted to test your compatibility for marriage,
But you aren't engaged,
What has kept you from getting engaged? I don't mean this to sound like a challenge at all, I'm honestly curious.

For me, if he said he wants to try out living together to see if we are compatible for marriage, but doesn't want to call it an engagement, my reaction is, "Why not? What is making you apprehensive?" There will be plenty of problems that come up when you live with someone, I want to make sure we don't go into that situation with any serious, unrealized doubts.

I realize I've been sort of alone over here on this side of the discussion so far, but I appreciate the intelligent responses and thoughtful disagreement I've gotten from people, this has prompted a lot of soul-searching from me this week.

The unhelpful antagonism, on the other hand, has been discouraging.

Just addressing the bold. I fit all those criteria, and a major thing I want to point out is that we differ in our opinions of what "engaged" means. It seems like you feel engagement is a period of testing if you're ready for marriage or if you know that person is right for you. For many people, myself included, that's what dating is for. Engagement to me is when you're actually planning the party and KNOW, without a doubt, that you're ready and happy to spend the rest of your life with this person.
Now, I have an "intention" to marry my boyfriend (and roommate

) but we are quite far away from being ready to make those steps. Hopefully this helps address some variability.

beanbot2002 · September 2013

istril said:

BriSox81 said:

Considering YOU are the ONLY ONE here who thinks that an engagement is a "trial run" on a marriage - you would think you'd get the message that you're the odd one out with a fucking ridiculous concept of what being engaged means.
... I did.

istril said:

Thank you for sharing all this. It makes perfect sense, when you view engagement as an "announcement". Which... I guess makes me the outlier. I'm beginning to realize the the way I view engagement is different from most people.
You guys are mean.

GoldenPenguin · September 2013

istril said:

BriSox81 said:
Considering YOU are the ONLY ONE here who thinks that an engagement is a "trial run" on a marriage - you would think you'd get the message that you're the odd one out with a fucking ridiculous concept of what being engaged means.

... I did.

istril said:
Thank you for sharing all this. It makes perfect sense, when you view engagement as an "announcement". Which... I guess makes me the outlier. I'm beginning to realize the the way I view engagement is different from most people.
You guys are mean.

You still didn't answer the question I asked when addressing your posed questions.

You said: For me, if he said he wants to try out living together to see if we are compatible for marriage, but doesn't want to call it an engagement, my reaction is, "Why not? What is making you apprehensive?"

My question is, why are YOU apprehensive? And why is it not okay for him to be apprehensive about making a (potentially) lifelong commitment to you by asking you to marry him, when he doesn't know everything about you yet?

GoldenPenguin · September 2013

Also.

Swazzle · September 2013

istril said:

BriSox81 said:
Considering YOU are the ONLY ONE here who thinks that an engagement is a "trial run" on a marriage - you would think you'd get the message that you're the odd one out with a fucking ridiculous concept of what being engaged means.

... I did.

istril said:
Thank you for sharing all this. It makes perfect sense, when you view engagement as an "announcement". Which... I guess makes me the outlier. I'm beginning to realize the the way I view engagement is different from most people.
You guys are mean.

Better to wait until engagement/marriage to live together.

Re: Better to wait until engagement/marriage to live together.

Engagement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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