Can somebody please explain this to me?

tmclawchick · November 2013

Typically I handle my FILs' shenanigans with ease, but I'm at a loss for words...*scratches head* A few weeks ago, I took DS to see the FILs (FI stayed home that weekend, so it was just DS and I). We were at dinner with the whole family (FI's siblings, parents, grandparents and his uncle were all there) and discussing wedding plans (full disclosure: his parents are chipping in), and the conversation ultimately turned towards the importance of considering the amount of money spent vs. the amount of money received, and how "you always want to end up coming out ahead."

Me: Wait, what?

FFIL: Yeah, like a business transaction, you want to make sure you make more than you spend. (*everyone around him nods in agreement*)

Me: I'm confused...I'm sorry... what?

FMIL then stepped up to the plate and explained that "you know, it just makes sense" that you'd want to make money from the wedding. She also mentioned that they keep tabs on all gifts they receive, so they know how much to give for related events, and that I "should start doing that too, it makes things so much easier." (Side note: I remember when DS was christened, FMIL asked me to make a list of who gave money from their side, and how much was given from each person... now it makes sense why she needed this valuable information). I replied that when each of my sisters got married I don't think we really paid much attention to how much they received from their guests, aside from just noting that they gave money for the purpose of thank you notes.

FMIL: Yeah, well we pay attention (laughs)

I ended up switching the topic, mainly because I couldn't figure out if we were all on the same planet, but went home the next day and mentioned it to FI. His response was "well yeah, it makes sense right? I mean who wouldn't want to make a profit?"

Me: WHAT?

We talked about this, and I told FI it seems rude (and honestly, a little slimy) to think of a wedding as an opportunity to make money. I don't know if it has to do with our different backgrounds (my family is blue collar/rural, his family works on Wall Street-- not to imply that everyone working on Wall Street would be rude like this, but I feel like there may be some sort of socioeconomic differences coming into play here). He ultimately saw where I was coming from, but also seemed to still agree with the whole idea of trying to profit from the wedding, which should make for some entertaining conversations now (to say the least).

So yeah... is there anyone who can explain this theory of profiting from the wedding to me? And how far would you let FILs go with this? Talking about it at a dinner table is one thing, but if FMIL wants another list should I oblige? Just wondering how to play this hand...

daria24 · November 2013

Your FILs are full of shit. We had a fairly modest wedding, and our families were very generous, and we only received gifts valuing about 1/4 the total cost. Thinking you are going to make a "profit" off a wedding is setting you up for a very, very bad investment. Even if people do "cover their plate", they are hardly factoring in your attire costs, venue, officiant, flowers, stationary, transportation, rings......you get the picture. I wonder how your FILs are successful in the financial industry if they don't understand simple wedding economics.

Absolutely do not share what people gave you, it's not on their business. If they ask just say "I'm not comfortable giving that information."

Inkdancer · November 2013

Eep. That definitely feels icky to me! I understand to some extent that they want the wedding to be a blessing, and so they don't want you to spend a ton of money that you don't have. On the other hand, talking about it like it's an investment instead of a celebration feels so ungrateful to the guests who take time to come and be with you.

I would suggest bean-dipping the heck out of the family if they bring it up again. And definitely don't give a list of who gave how much. If FMIL asks, politely say that you wrote down what gifts were given to you, but not their value. Even if she is helping pay for the wedding, how much money you "got out of it" is none of her beeswax.

KatWAG · November 2013

My MIL wasnt as bad, but she did say we shouldn't register for much so we could get a bunch of cash.

I would just disregard the comment, I dont think its worth starting anything over this. They have clearly been doing this for awhile.

FWIW, we probably were gifted about 1/5 of the total cost of our wedding.

southernbelle0915 · November 2013

Ignore them. Smile and nod and then deny any requests to see an inventory of your wedding gifts. I repeat: do not give them a list of any wedding gifts. Just no. It's fine if they pay attention, but you don't have to be their partner in crime.

This type of cover your plate/wedding for profit rudeness extends over socioeconomic lines. I would not look to this difference in your backgrounds to explain this away. I don't care where they live or if they make $5,000 a year or $5 million. These people are simply rude.

mommapizano · November 2013

I think this goes with the concept of covering your plate which is totally silly. Some guests will give gifts and others won't. Everyone is in a different financial position and ultimately we invite guests because we want them there, not because we want a gift.

In total, we probably got between 5% and 10% of our total wedding costs in gifts and money. That was generous and we were super happy with everything we received. Some people didn't give anything and that's just fine too.

mysticl · November 2013

One of DH's cousins got married less than a year after we did. MIL called me up wanting to know how much her sister gave us so that she could give a comparable amount. I told her I had gotten rid of the list because I didn't need it anymore (I really did believe I'd thrown it away but found it mixed in with some other papers later).

This is why I prefer to give a boxed gift for most gift giving events. That way I don't feel like we are playing pass the money back and forth.

J+A 2013 · November 2013

I heard this a lot from my husband (and his family when others were planning their weddings). It's just their mindset, but I didn't let it bother me too much after a while because it's easier to ignore than to try to change how an entire family thinks about things like money. He's been told that he's not to share with anyone what people gave, nor can he share the total amount that we got from the wedding.

We did end up getting more than the reception cost (including a gift from my parents a year before the wedding to help pay for it), FWIW. To be honest, this wasn't a shock to me as I've only ever seen my parents and family and my H's family give cash at weddings.

This is one of those topics you can very politely avoid discussing with your in-laws and after a while they should get the hint. It's a shame you already set the precedent of sharing the amount of gifts you got for the christening because they might not get why you think it's rude now but it wasn't then - but it's 100% NONE of their business. There are so many factors that play into how much someone gives. For example - we were told (by my ILs) that what we give to siblings needs to be even and we'll "get back" what we give them when we get married - and we got back less, likely because our wedding was out of state and required two nights in a hotel. It's just not worth comparing and I think it's even worse to give someone $X just because they gave you $X.

Jen4948 · November 2013

Well, you could tell them, "You do realize that the IRS taxes any profits from a money-making venture? Would you like them to cut in?"

(The IRS does tax gifts, if they're of the right amount, but the gifts would actually be taxable to the givers, not you.)

Once they say no, you can then reply with "Look, weddings are not profit-making ventures, and I really don't want to hear any more about making money out of ours. Gifts are not tit for tat. This is a closed subject."

tmclawchick · November 2013

J+A 2013 said:

I heard this a lot from my husband (and his family when others were planning their weddings). It's just their mindset, but I didn't let it bother me too much after a while because it's easier to ignore than to try to change how an entire family thinks about things like money. He's been told that he's not to share with anyone what people gave, nor can he share the total amount that we got from the wedding.

We did end up getting more than the reception cost (including a gift from my parents a year before the wedding to help pay for it), FWIW. To be honest, this wasn't a shock to me as I've only ever seen my parents and family and my H's family give cash at weddings.

This is one of those topics you can very politely avoid discussing with your in-laws and after a while they should get the hint. It's a shame you already set the precedent of sharing the amount of gifts you got for the christening because they might not get why you think it's rude now but it wasn't then - but it's 100% NONE of their business. There are so many factors that play into how much someone gives. For example - we were told (by my ILs) that what we give to siblings needs to be even and we'll "get back" what we give them when we get married - and we got back less, likely because our wedding was out of state and required two nights in a hotel. It's just not worth comparing and I think it's even worse to give someone $X just because they gave you $X.

You're absolutely right about setting the dangerous precedent. I think at the time I was stressed/sleep deprived as a new mom that I didn't even bother asking any other follow-up questions... that's why I was wondering how to handle it this time around. Ultimately I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a huge issue, but they've been known to get a little crazy over silly things. Here's hoping!

CTYankeeBride · November 2013

My FMIL apparently has a habit of doing this, to the point that she called FI the morning after his first wedding and asked him to tell her over the phone who from their side gave exactly what amounts, "so that we know what to give their kids when they invite us." FI declined and told her "I guess you'll have to figure out what you're comfortable giving them and give that amount then." It'll be interesting to see if she tries that this time around.

NYCBruin · November 2013

That's just...ick. I tend to view things from a very business-y standpoint, but the only business-y things about our wedding are the massive amounts of spreadsheets I've created in the planning process.

To view a celebration as some sort of business transaction is just gross.

I would definitely just avoid the topic and definitely don't provide her with any other "lists" she requests! For your wedding, just write down what people got you (i.e. "cash" not "$75") and try to get TYs out before she comes nosing around so you can honestly say that you already threw the list out.

tmclawchick · November 2013

Jen4948 said:

Well, you could tell them, "You do realize that the IRS taxes any profits from a money-making venture? Would you like them to cut in?"

(The IRS does tax gifts, if they're of the right amount, but the gifts would actually be taxable to the givers, not you.)

Once they say no, you can then reply with "Look, weddings are not profit-making ventures, and I really don't want to hear any more about making money out of ours. Gifts are not tit for tat. This is a closed subject."

Look at you busting out the IRC rules!!! Are you in the tax area? FI is, I feel like this response would make him feel all warm and fuzzy

mrs4everhart · November 2013

I knew a lot of families like this growing up in the NE. I imagine your FIL's for one want you both ahead of the game after your wedding and are perhaps (this is a guess on my part) part of a social group who really, truly do "keep score" with their peers. I don't think it's crazy for anyone's parents to want them to be financially sound, particularly after a large expenditure such as wedding, but perhaps phrasing it as "making a profit" is super off-putting because it's your wedding not a business merger! As for the keeping score, as other posters have advised you do not have to disclose any information you do not want to. You will have to decide if you are interested in dealing with any blowback from your in laws, or if your FI is willing to handle it instead if you, if you withhold. One way to look at it is perhaps the intent isn't FULL of malice. After my first wedding from time to time my Mom would call and ask what the so-and-so's gifted us because she was invited to their son/daughter's shower/wedding and wanted to make sure her gift was comparable. She'd never want to be viewed as rude and give someone $100 as a gift if her peers gave $250 (amounts purely made up for example purposes).

Bubblegum5586 · November 2013

I have never really heard of this either! I always thought people give what they can. DH and I had 4 weddings this summer before ours... because of that money was very tight and could only afford $50 as a gift to each one we went to. I DID notice that when we got gifts at our wedding most of the couples from the weddings that summer GAVE us $100 each. Either they didn't care we only gave $50 or just don't notice that kind of thing...

FWIW we received about 1/3 in cash of what we spent on the wedding.

kgd7357 · November 2013

I don't see how it is possible to make a profit at a wedding. We'll be spending $200 per guest on just food and drinks (which I know is a lot, but we want to). This would mean that my 20 and 30 something friends would have to spend over $400 a couple for us to profit. That is just crazy, most of them cannot afford that. While some of my older relatives from the CT/NY area may give large gifts like that any gifts we get are really a bonus.

As far as keeping track of who gives a certain amount, I've never heard of someone being that nuts about it. My dad does keep track though for family events. For our Bar/Bat Mitzvahs he noted how much we got from various family that had kids with Bar/Bat Mitzvahs coming up, and gave their kids similar gifts. I have to admit, it does sort of make sense. What I don't like is when my dad said a few times, "you should invite x b/c they will give a big gift and probably wont come". Ugh. Really. I just ignored it and asked my mom who should really be invited.

mysticl · November 2013

kgd7357 said:

I don't see how it is possible to make a profit at a wedding. We'll be spending $200 per guest on just food and drinks (which I know is a lot, but we want to). This would mean that my 20 and 30 something friends would have to spend over $400 a couple for us to profit. That is just crazy, most of them cannot afford that. While some of my older relatives from the CT/NY area may give large gifts like that any gifts we get are really a bonus.

As far as keeping track of who gives a certain amount, I've never heard of someone being that nuts about it. My dad does keep track though for family events. For our Bar/Bat Mitzvahs he noted how much we got from various family that had kids with Bar/Bat Mitzvahs coming up, and gave their kids similar gifts. I have to admit, it does sort of make sense. What I don't like is when my dad said a few times, "you should invite x b/c they will give a big gift and probably wont come". Ugh. Really. I just ignored it and asked my mom who should really be invited.

A profit, no but we did get enough in cash and checks to cover the food and bar bill which was our biggest expenditure.

mrs4everhart · November 2013

kgd7357 said:

I don't see how it is possible to make a profit at a wedding. We'll be spending $200 per guest on just food and drinks (which I know is a lot, but we want to). This would mean that my 20 and 30 something friends would have to spend over $400 a couple for us to profit. That is just crazy, most of them cannot afford that. While some of my older relatives from the CT/NY area may give large gifts like that any gifts we get are really a bonus.

As far as keeping track of who gives a certain amount, I've never heard of someone being that nuts about it. My dad does keep track though for family events. For our Bar/Bat Mitzvahs he noted how much we got from various family that had kids with Bar/Bat Mitzvahs coming up, and gave their kids similar gifts. I have to admit, it does sort of make sense. What I don't like is when my dad said a few times, "you should invite x b/c they will give a big gift and probably wont come". Ugh. Really. I just ignored it and asked my mom who should really be invited.

It's completely possible for the couple to "profit" assuming their personal expenditure is little to nothing (meaning the parents or other familiar pays for all or most of it). Everything they receive as a gift is pure "profit" from an accounting standpoint since they didn't start in the negative.

HisGirlFriday13 · November 2013

DH's grandmother is like that. She wanted to know how much EVERYONE gave us -- not just "her" side -- because she's nosy. I bean-dipped her and finally just said, "I am not going to give you that information, ever, so stop asking me. I've written the thank-you notes, we've deposited the checks and/or money, and the subject is closed."

Jen4948 · November 2013

tmclawchick said:

Jen4948 said:

Well, you could tell them, "You do realize that the IRS taxes any profits from a money-making venture? Would you like them to cut in?"

(The IRS does tax gifts, if they're of the right amount, but the gifts would actually be taxable to the givers, not you.)

Once they say no, you can then reply with "Look, weddings are not profit-making ventures, and I really don't want to hear any more about making money out of ours. Gifts are not tit for tat. This is a closed subject."

Look at you busting out the IRC rules!!! Are you in the tax area? FI is, I feel like this response would make him feel all warm and fuzzy

Yes, I've worked for 20 years as an accountant and did taxes. If this response helps, feel free to use it. Maybe it will stop them in their tracks.

NYCBruin · November 2013

STBMrsEverhart said:

kgd7357 said:

I don't see how it is possible to make a profit at a wedding. We'll be spending $200 per guest on just food and drinks (which I know is a lot, but we want to). This would mean that my 20 and 30 something friends would have to spend over $400 a couple for us to profit. That is just crazy, most of them cannot afford that. While some of my older relatives from the CT/NY area may give large gifts like that any gifts we get are really a bonus.

As far as keeping track of who gives a certain amount, I've never heard of someone being that nuts about it. My dad does keep track though for family events. For our Bar/Bat Mitzvahs he noted how much we got from various family that had kids with Bar/Bat Mitzvahs coming up, and gave their kids similar gifts. I have to admit, it does sort of make sense. What I don't like is when my dad said a few times, "you should invite x b/c they will give a big gift and probably wont come". Ugh. Really. I just ignored it and asked my mom who should really be invited.

It's completely possible for the couple to "profit" assuming their personal expenditure is little to nothing (meaning the parents or other familiar pays for all or most of it). Everything they receive as a gift is pure "profit" from an accounting standpoint since they didn't start in the negative.

thisismynickname2 · November 2013

I am extremely, extremely against this notion of "coming out ahead" on one's wedding, and will vocalize it to anyone who dares get on their high horse about it.

ESPECIALLY when it's a bride whose parents paid for the whole thing.

Unfortunately this is a popular view for the Chicago area middle class- my demographic, and I think it's sick and rude.

Why bother hosting celebrations if you're just going to pass around the same $100 bill(s) for the rest of your life? Really? And I'm not subsidizing your $10k Vera Wang, sorry. If you look at what weddings really cost, especially in the Chicago area, you'll never have any guests unless you and everybody you invite is rich if you follow this practice. $30k budget and 300 guests is $100 a head; $70k budget and 300 guests is about $235 a head. Yeah good luck with that.

JCbride2015 · November 2013

thisismynickname said:
Why bother hosting celebrations if you're just going to pass around the same $100 bill(s) for the rest of your life? Really?

^Yes. This takes all the fun out of gift giving!

I think those expectations are a big motivator for couples to spend more than what they can really afford, thinking they will earn back most of the cost or even make a profit.

FILs had this attitude about our e-party and I expect it to get worse. FILs hosted the party and of course had a big say in the guest list. FMIL kept saying, "These people I had dinner with three months ago/ this lady I work with/ third cousin twice removed will give you a really good gift, you will make money from inviting them." Why would I want someone at our e-party, and therefore at our wedding, we really don't even know, just because they might write us a check? I still think they viewed throwing the e-party as a way to make us enough money to pay deposits and start a wedding fund. Sweet in a way, but definitely misplaced motives. Sure enough, FMIL badgered us about how much money we "made" at the party. This was before I knew the term bean-dipping, but we bean-dipped her.

They have already made a few comments that we will probably get back our wedding expenses (which we are covering on our own), so it must be okay to spend more. No no no! Bean dip!

MobKaz · November 2013

thisismynickname said:

I am extremely, extremely against this notion of "coming out ahead" on one's wedding, and will vocalize it to anyone who dares get on their high horse about it.

ESPECIALLY when it's a bride whose parents paid for the whole thing.

Unfortunately this is a popular view for the Chicago area middle class- my demographic, and I think it's sick and rude.

Why bother hosting celebrations if you're just going to pass around the same $100 bill(s) for the rest of your life? Really? And I'm not subsidizing your $10k Vera Wang, sorry. If you look at what weddings really cost, especially in the Chicago area, you'll never have any guests unless you and everybody you invite is rich if you follow this practice. $30k budget and 300 guests is $100 a head; $70k budget and 300 guests is about $235 a head. Yeah good luck with that.

Please don't make such a sweeping and blanket generalization about Chicagoans. It is nothing near the attitude that prevails in my family.

mrs4everhart · November 2013

bubbles053009 said:

STBMrsEverhart said:

I knew a lot of families like this growing up in the NE. I imagine your FIL's for one want you both ahead of the game after your wedding and are perhaps (this is a guess on my part) part of a social group who really, truly do "keep score" with their peers. I don't think it's crazy for anyone's parents to want them to be financially sound, particularly after a large expenditure such as wedding, but perhaps phrasing it as "making a profit" is super off-putting because it's your wedding not a business merger! As for the keeping score, as other posters have advised you do not have to disclose any information you do not want to. You will have to decide if you are interested in dealing with any blowback from your in laws, or if your FI is willing to handle it instead if you, if you withhold. One way to look at it is perhaps the intent isn't FULL of malice. After my first wedding from time to time my Mom would call and ask what the so-and-so's gifted us because she was invited to their son/daughter's shower/wedding and wanted to make sure her gift was comparable. She'd never want to be viewed as rude and give someone $100 as a gift if her peers gave $250 (amounts purely made up for example purposes).

Not every family in the North East is like this. I've grown up in Massachusetts my entire life. My family would never say to me something like this. I'm in the crowd of people who hasn't given a gift at a wedding ever, but that is only because it never crossed my mind. If I was invited to the shower, that's my gift.

But that generalization is what ultimately rubs people the wrong way on here.

I never said they all do. The OP said her FIL's work on Wall Street. That happens to also be in the NE. For me to state that growing up and experiencing similar attitudes isn't a generalization. It's my telling the OP she isn't grasping at straws trying to figure out where perhaps this attitude comes from. It's not uncommon thinking outside of the city. That doesn't mean I automatically assume all people in the tri-state area think the same.

emmyg65 · November 2013

Aside from the sheer idiocy of the statement, which other posters have pointed out, this is such a sad view of a wedding! We got married because we want to spend the rest of our lives together, and we invited people to our wedding because we wanted to be surrounded by our community when we did that. Period. Yeah, the gifts were nice, but really the best part was getting to see so many of the people we love the most.

thisismynickname2 · November 2013

mobkaz said:

thisismynickname said:

I am extremely, extremely against this notion of "coming out ahead" on one's wedding, and will vocalize it to anyone who dares get on their high horse about it.

ESPECIALLY when it's a bride whose parents paid for the whole thing.

Unfortunately this is a popular view for the Chicago area middle class- my demographic, and I think it's sick and rude.

Why bother hosting celebrations if you're just going to pass around the same $100 bill(s) for the rest of your life? Really? And I'm not subsidizing your $10k Vera Wang, sorry. If you look at what weddings really cost, especially in the Chicago area, you'll never have any guests unless you and everybody you invite is rich if you follow this practice. $30k budget and 300 guests is $100 a head; $70k budget and 300 guests is about $235 a head. Yeah good luck with that.

Please don't make such a sweeping and blanket generalization about Chicagoans. It is nothing near the attitude that prevails in my family.
Phew! Thank goodness, there's hope!

marshmallow1982 · November 2013

I would guess its unusual to make a profit from a wedding otherwise why would couples save for years to get married.

How would your in laws react to guests who bring a homemade gift or a small thoughtful thing? Hopefully they don't want you to write one of those silly poems about bringing cash!

MadHops21 · November 2013

thisismynickname said:

I am extremely, extremely against this notion of "coming out ahead" on one's wedding, and will vocalize it to anyone who dares get on their high horse about it.

ESPECIALLY when it's a bride whose parents paid for the whole thing.

Unfortunately this is a popular view for the Chicago area middle class- my demographic, and I think it's sick and rude.

Why bother hosting celebrations if you're just going to pass around the same $100 bill(s) for the rest of your life? Really? And I'm not subsidizing your $10k Vera Wang, sorry. If you look at what weddings really cost, especially in the Chicago area, you'll never have any guests unless you and everybody you invite is rich if you follow this practice. $30k budget and 300 guests is $100 a head; $70k budget and 300 guests is about $235 a head. Yeah good luck with that.

I'm in the Chicagoland area, and I have not heard of "coming out ahead" where I'm at for weddings. I'm middle class and none of my friends or family's weddings have ever had this notion or compared prices with each other. Yes, it can get crazy expensive here (ugh), but I don't tell anyone how much everything is.

Can somebody please explain this to me?

Re: Can somebody please explain this to me?

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