@KnotPorscha

orwhatuwill · December 2013

Alexandrathgr8 said:

RajahBMFD said:

I think my advice about addressing your own homophobia before entering into a same sex marriage was VERY contstructive.

If you can't be comfortable with your own sexuality, how do you expect anyone else to be?
As always, @queerfemme is a genius and right. OP, I too am concerned that you seem so worried about hiding the fact that two women are getting married. It's not healthy to think that way.

Yes.. well unfortunately it's something I deal with, i don't like to make a spectacle of my sexuality and it has never been my defining point, and i don't like that it will be very much the front spectacle of the wedding... and i worry about our families(who may or may not attend) and how they will react.... not everyone is as comfortable in their sexuality as @queerfemme is...there is much more this story- but this is neither the time nor place..i appreciate your concern though...it will be a great celebration of love and my commitment to my girl.

Frankly, the insinuation that someone who is assigned female at birth who feels more comfortable wearing clothing typically worn by people who are assigned male at birth i making "spectacle" of their sexuality is TOTALLY off-base and offensive to me. The fact that you even used the word "spectacle" slam-dunks @queerfemme 's point in suggesting that you need to work on your internalized homophobia. Additionally, it proves that you need some major education around gender and the difference between sexuality and gender (expression).

-Butch Spectacle

Alexandrathgr8 · December 2013

So being "flamed" is a rite of passage? I took my licks so now I am entitled to dole them out to others? Sorry, don't agree with that philosophy.

I agree... but there a select handful of women here who make it their mission it seems to dole out "honest opinions" in a very hurtful way. TK's very own mean girls! They should make a badge for it.

Alexandrathgr8 · December 2013

@orwhatyouwill i'm not going to have a sexuality and gender argument with you. That's ridiculous. I don't want women in my wedding wearing ties and suits because i don't like it. Period. You have your own opinion.. My journey through working and understanding my sexuality is mine alone and your opinion on my education (or assumed lack thereof )is unwarranted.

Alexandrathgr8 · December 2013

If the OP wants to stop receiving feedback, the simplest solution is to stop reading the thread. There is also an "ignore" button that the poster can implement. Finally, posters are able to message anyone privately if they want their communications to be private or restricted.

Lurking is what helps posters 'prepare" for the diversity in responders. Have you never read an online article? The conclusion of any internet publication is filled with comments and responses that vary in content from insanely offensive to intelligent contribution. Unless the comment violates that publishers TOS, the comments remain. It is up to the reader to choose how they filter what they read. Censorship does not belong on an internet forum. Personal responsibility does.

There is a difference between having a diverse population of responses(which i think is what you meant) and being rude and mean-spirited. And this online community is nothing like posting on an online article. People come here for help, and are looking to find other brides who are excited about getting married and want to share their joy and questions with each other- not to be bullied by posters who are under the misguided idea that they are being "helpful and honest". No one goes on an online article and comments looking for these things.

AddieCake · December 2013

I feel bullied th

Alexandrathgr8 said:

So being "flamed" is a rite of passage? I took my licks so now I am entitled to dole them out to others? Sorry, don't agree with that philosophy.

I agree... but there a select handful of women here who make it their mission it seems to dole out "honest opinions" in a very hurtful way. TK's very own mean girls! They should make a badge for it.

I feel bullied that you called me a mean girl. Can I tattle to Porscha that you called me a hurtful name now? That's how this works, right? We get to decide our own personal definitions of bullying and what's mean?

orwhatuwill · December 2013

@OP what people choose to wear isn't about sexuality. It is about gender. The fact that you equate people who may feel more comfortable in "masculine"(my word) clothing as a "spectacle" (your word) of sexuality implies that that you don't understand the complexity of gender (and how what anyone chooses to wear it is not a direct communication about their sexuality). That's not about you working through your own understanding sexuality.

I know this is not my wedding, and I am not your friend, but something itching at my heart makes me feel like I need to share this perspective with you. Especially, as it seems that you're not going to ask your friend directly about how they feel: I'd rather not be asked to be in a wedding, even for someone I love dearly, than required to wear something that makes me *feel* ridiculous and uncomfortable.

In simple terms, if you *require* someone who cares about to be in your wedding and ask them to wear clothing that they would not feel comfortable wearing because of how they feel about their body or their inner sense of self (specifically gender), exclusively because of how you'd like your day to look, without trying to gain an understanding of how they'd feel...prepare to live with the knowledge that you may A) hurt their feelings (and they may never tell you this),

have ensured that they feel uncomfortable during your entire day, C) have compromised a friendship.

I use the word require very intentionally: if you don't talk about this with your friend, you will never know how they feel. While it would be an issue for *me*, this may be a non-issue for them. If you've drawn an absolute line about what is not acceptable for her to wear in your wedding, give her a choice. Be ready for a range of potential responses.

MobKaz · December 2013

Alexandrathgr8 said:

If the OP wants to stop receiving feedback, the simplest solution is to stop reading the thread. There is also an "ignore" button that the poster can implement. Finally, posters are able to message anyone privately if they want their communications to be private or restricted.

Lurking is what helps posters 'prepare" for the diversity in responders. Have you never read an online article? The conclusion of any internet publication is filled with comments and responses that vary in content from insanely offensive to intelligent contribution. Unless the comment violates that publishers TOS, the comments remain. It is up to the reader to choose how they filter what they read. Censorship does not belong on an internet forum. Personal responsibility does.

There is a difference between having a diverse population of responses(which i think is what you meant) and being rude and mean-spirited. And this online community is nothing like posting on an online article. People come here for help, and are looking to find other brides who are excited about getting married and want to share their joy and questions with each other- not to be bullied by posters who are under the misguided idea that they are being "helpful and honest". No one goes on an online article and comments looking for these things.

People do search out online articles looking for clarification and to ask questions. But that discussion is for another day.

There is also a diversity of brides on this forum. Some of these "excited" brides are here to have bad ideas validated. When their "excitement" is squelched with reality based answers they do not like, they cry "bully", "attack", and "mean girls". These brides have also been misguided with industry infused horrible ideas, that care little about the bride and much about generating money. And there are "brides" on here that merely post to deliberately stir a pot for their own entertainment. Those brides tend to be dealt with in the most abrupt way. A new poster may not be able to discern those trolls, and mistake the thread for a serious one, but the regulars are able to recognize trolls.

The bottom line remains the same. You cannot and should not expect roses and rainbows on any internet forum. You have to be able to take the good with the bad. If you cannot, then an internet forum simply is not for you.

Alexandrathgr8 · December 2013

orwhatuwill said:

@OP what people choose to wear isn't about sexuality. It is about gender. The fact that you equate people who may feel more comfortable in "masculine"(my word) clothing as a "spectacle" (your word) of sexuality implies that that you don't understand the complexity of gender (and how what anyone chooses to wear it is not a direct communication about their sexuality). That's not about you working through your own understanding sexuality.

I know this is not my wedding, and I am not your friend, but something itching at my heart makes me feel like I need to share this perspective with you. Especially, as it seems that you're not going to ask your friend directly about how they feel: I'd rather not be asked to be in a wedding, even for someone I love dearly, than required to wear something that makes me *feel* ridiculous and uncomfortable.

In simple terms, if you *require* someone who cares about to be in your wedding and ask them to wear clothing that they would not feel comfortable wearing because of how they feel about their body or their inner sense of self (specifically gender), exclusively because of how you'd like your day to look, without trying to gain an understanding of how they'd feel...prepare to live with the knowledge that you may A) hurt their feelings (and they may never tell you this), have ensured that they feel uncomfortable during your entire day, C) have compromised a friendship.

I use the word require very intentionally: if you don't talk about this with your friend, you will never know how they feel. While it would be an issue for *me*, this may be a non-issue for them. If you've drawn an absolute line about what is not acceptable for her to wear in your wedding, give her a choice. Be ready for a range of potential responses.

I have talked to her, she said she'd be willing to wear whatever, even a dress! if i asked (but i know how uncomfortable she'd be so i wouldn't ask her to do that)- in my original post on the one that was closed- i asked for other options rather than a suit because my partner wants to be the only one in a vest.. i wasn't sure if a button down and pants would look good with others all in dresses... i wasn't prepared for the responses I got- that seemed to focus more on how horrible i was for considering how the wedding would look. Granted, maybe my sarcastic and overly indulgent inner voice didn't come off as jokingly as I wanted.

And when i used the word spectacle.. i in no way meant females wearing pants as a spectacle and i'm sorry that it came off that way. For my partner and I, with families who have come a long way in 4 years with acceptance of our sexuality that i am keeping them in mind with it. I do want it to be a celebration but i also don't want to make them too uncomfortable.

Thanks for your feedback @orwhatuwill!

Alexandrathgr8 · December 2013

mobkaz said:

Alexandrathgr8 said:

If the OP wants to stop receiving feedback, the simplest solution is to stop reading the thread. There is also an "ignore" button that the poster can implement. Finally, posters are able to message anyone privately if they want their communications to be private or restricted.

Lurking is what helps posters 'prepare" for the diversity in responders. Have you never read an online article? The conclusion of any internet publication is filled with comments and responses that vary in content from insanely offensive to intelligent contribution. Unless the comment violates that publishers TOS, the comments remain. It is up to the reader to choose how they filter what they read. Censorship does not belong on an internet forum. Personal responsibility does.

There is a difference between having a diverse population of responses(which i think is what you meant) and being rude and mean-spirited. And this online community is nothing like posting on an online article. People come here for help, and are looking to find other brides who are excited about getting married and want to share their joy and questions with each other- not to be bullied by posters who are under the misguided idea that they are being "helpful and honest". No one goes on an online article and comments looking for these things.

People do search out online articles looking for clarification and to ask questions. But that discussion is for another day.

There is also a diversity of brides on this forum. Some of these "excited" brides are here to have bad ideas validated. When their "excitement" is squelched with reality based answers they do not like, they cry "bully", "attack", and "mean girls". These brides have also been misguided with industry infused horrible ideas, that care little about the bride and much about generating money. And there are "brides" on here that merely post to deliberately stir a pot for their own entertainment. Those brides tend to be dealt with in the most abrupt way. A new poster may not be able to discern those trolls, and mistake the thread for a serious one, but the regulars are able to recognize trolls.

The bottom line remains the same. You cannot and should not expect roses and rainbows on any internet forum. You have to be able to take the good with the bad. If you cannot, then an internet forum simply is not for you.

Well there are a select handful of "trolls" that really made my first serious post unpleasant. But it's whatever. I just think there is a way to tell someone they have a bad idea without being a bitch

Alexandrathgr8 · December 2013

mobkaz said:

Alexandrathgr8 said:

If the OP wants to stop receiving feedback, the simplest solution is to stop reading the thread. There is also an "ignore" button that the poster can implement. Finally, posters are able to message anyone privately if they want their communications to be private or restricted.

Lurking is what helps posters 'prepare" for the diversity in responders. Have you never read an online article? The conclusion of any internet publication is filled with comments and responses that vary in content from insanely offensive to intelligent contribution. Unless the comment violates that publishers TOS, the comments remain. It is up to the reader to choose how they filter what they read. Censorship does not belong on an internet forum. Personal responsibility does.

There is a difference between having a diverse population of responses(which i think is what you meant) and being rude and mean-spirited. And this online community is nothing like posting on an online article. People come here for help, and are looking to find other brides who are excited about getting married and want to share their joy and questions with each other- not to be bullied by posters who are under the misguided idea that they are being "helpful and honest". No one goes on an online article and comments looking for these things.

People do search out online articles looking for clarification and to ask questions. But that discussion is for another day.

There is also a diversity of brides on this forum. Some of these "excited" brides are here to have bad ideas validated. When their "excitement" is squelched with reality based answers they do not like, they cry "bully", "attack", and "mean girls". These brides have also been misguided with industry infused horrible ideas, that care little about the bride and much about generating money. And there are "brides" on here that merely post to deliberately stir a pot for their own entertainment. Those brides tend to be dealt with in the most abrupt way. A new poster may not be able to discern those trolls, and mistake the thread for a serious one, but the regulars are able to recognize trolls.

The bottom line remains the same. You cannot and should not expect roses and rainbows on any internet forum. You have to be able to take the good with the bad. If you cannot, then an internet forum simply is not for you.

Well there are a select handful of "trolls" that really made my first serious post unpleasant. But it's whatever. I just think there is a way to tell someone they have a bad idea without being a bitch

AddieCake · December 2013

Alexandrathgr8 said:

But it's whatever. I just think there is a way to tell someone they have a bad idea without being a bitch.

And you've appointed yourself the one to decide what is and is not being a bitch?

MobKaz · December 2013

Alexandrathgr8 said:

mobkaz said:

Alexandrathgr8 said:

If the OP wants to stop receiving feedback, the simplest solution is to stop reading the thread. There is also an "ignore" button that the poster can implement. Finally, posters are able to message anyone privately if they want their communications to be private or restricted.

Lurking is what helps posters 'prepare" for the diversity in responders. Have you never read an online article? The conclusion of any internet publication is filled with comments and responses that vary in content from insanely offensive to intelligent contribution. Unless the comment violates that publishers TOS, the comments remain. It is up to the reader to choose how they filter what they read. Censorship does not belong on an internet forum. Personal responsibility does.

There is a difference between having a diverse population of responses(which i think is what you meant) and being rude and mean-spirited. And this online community is nothing like posting on an online article. People come here for help, and are looking to find other brides who are excited about getting married and want to share their joy and questions with each other- not to be bullied by posters who are under the misguided idea that they are being "helpful and honest". No one goes on an online article and comments looking for these things.

People do search out online articles looking for clarification and to ask questions. But that discussion is for another day.

There is also a diversity of brides on this forum. Some of these "excited" brides are here to have bad ideas validated. When their "excitement" is squelched with reality based answers they do not like, they cry "bully", "attack", and "mean girls". These brides have also been misguided with industry infused horrible ideas, that care little about the bride and much about generating money. And there are "brides" on here that merely post to deliberately stir a pot for their own entertainment. Those brides tend to be dealt with in the most abrupt way. A new poster may not be able to discern those trolls, and mistake the thread for a serious one, but the regulars are able to recognize trolls.

The bottom line remains the same. You cannot and should not expect roses and rainbows on any internet forum. You have to be able to take the good with the bad. If you cannot, then an internet forum simply is not for you.

Well there are a select handful of "trolls" that really made my first serious post unpleasant. But it's whatever. I just think there is a way to tell someone they have a bad idea without being a bitch

And this is an excellent example of someone who is willing to dish it out but not take it in return. You seem to be adept at crying to mommy when something does not go your way, and quick to stick your tongue out when mom stops looking.

AddieCake · December 2013

Ditto mobkaz. Yes, how ironic that you think people are being mean to you so you call for admin to close your thread to make it stop, and then you call the other posters on this site bitches. Sure, that seems fair.

Alexandrathgr8 · December 2013

If it looks like a duck.... I didn't call anyone out specifically.. i just meant in general there tends to be a bitchiness in specific responders. thats all.

AddieCake · December 2013

Alexandrathgr8 said:

If it looks like a duck.... I didn't call anyone out specifically.. i just meant in general there tends to be a bitchiness in responders. thats all.

If you think someone is being a bitch, it's ok with me if you call them one. Call me a bitch if you think I am one. I don't care. I won't be running to Porscha to tattle on you for having an opinion about my behavior. It's your opinion, after all, and I'm not a crybaby. YOUR behavior, however, makes you a hypocrite.

MobKaz · December 2013

Alexandrathgr8 said:

I asked her to close it because I didn't get any constructive feedback- merely harsh judgements and mean comments. Making someone feel shitty about themselves is not the way to help.

Kerigirl9 · December 2013

mobkaz said:

Alexandrathgr8 said:

I asked her to close it because I didn't get any constructive feedback- merely harsh judgements and mean comments. Making someone feel shitty about themselves is not the way to help.

Really?

Kerigirl9 · December 2013

Yes, very "adult" behavior.

That's enough for me on this particular topic

MobKaz · December 2013

Kerigirl9 said:

mobkaz said:

Alexandrathgr8 said:

I asked her to close it because I didn't get any constructive feedback- merely harsh judgements and mean comments. Making someone feel shitty about themselves is not the way to help.

Really?

MobKaz · December 2013

Kerigirl9 said:

Yes, very "adult" behavior.

That's enough for me on this particular topic

Do you not find it ironic that you are referring to adult behavior, and the point of this is that an "adult" went crying to a moderator because she could not handle a few responses?

[Deleted User] · December 2013

Alexandrathgr8 said:
If it looks like a duck.... I didn't call anyone out specifically.. i just meant in general there tends to be a bitchiness in specific responders. thats all.

I know what you mean about the "mean girls" *sigh* sometimes their advice is good but it usually comes with so much snark that it's really hard to tell. It makes me feel better to know that a lot of them have been married for awhile and still spend their time on a wedding forum.

rajahmd · December 2013

clairekundinger said:

Alexandrathgr8 said:
If it looks like a duck.... I didn't call anyone out specifically.. i just meant in general there tends to be a bitchiness in specific responders. thats all.
I know what you mean about the "mean girls" *sigh* sometimes their advice is good but it usually comes with so much snark that it's really hard to tell. It makes me feel better to know that a lot of them have been married for awhile and still spend their time on a wedding forum.

Just curious, why does that make you feel better? Honestly, that sounds quite judgmental. The women who have stayed on the site after their wedding have done so because they enjoy weddings and planning them. There's nothing wrong with that, and the imply that there's something to be ashamed of is wrong.

MobKaz · December 2013

clairekundinger said: If it looks like a duck.... I didn't call anyone out specifically.. i just meant in general there tends to be a bitchiness in specific responders. thats all.
I know what you mean about the "mean girls" *sigh* sometimes their advice is good but it usually comes with so much snark that it's really hard to tell. It makes me feel better to know that a lot of them have been married for awhile and still spend their time on a wedding forum.

There are many girls/women that spend time on a wedding forum that are not even engaged yet. What is your point? As many posters have said (since your comment is hardly original), when someone seeks advice on something, they tend to ask someone with first hand experience.

southernbelle0915 · December 2013

clairekundinger said:

If it looks like a duck.... I didn't call anyone out specifically.. i just meant in general there tends to be a bitchiness in specific responders. thats all.
I know what you mean about the "mean girls" *sigh* sometimes their advice is good but it usually comes with so much snark that it's really hard to tell. It makes me feel better to know that a lot of them have been married for awhile and still spend their time on a wedding forum.

I just got married a couple months ago. Does that mean I shouldn't post here? What if I post in a few years? Then I shouldn't? What about MOGs and MOBs who are married? What about BMs and GMs who are married? They shouldn't post here either?

Or if they hurt your feelings it makes you feel better about yourself because they're married and you're not? Huh?

[Deleted User] · December 2013

After reviewing both the original thread and the comments here, I have decided to reopen @Alexandrathgr8's thread since nothing has yet violated TOS.

In regard to bringing moderators back, the final staging is in place for our new reporting system. Once we have it in place, we'll bring public mods back to help monitor the community and share details about how to volunteer.

QueerFemme · December 2013

Alexandrathgr8 said:

@orwhatyouwill i'm not going to have a sexuality and gender argument with you. That's ridiculous. I don't want women in my wedding wearing ties and suits because i don't like it. Period. You have your own opinion.. My journey through working and understanding my sexuality is mine alone and your opinion on my education (or assumed lack thereof )is unwarranted.

But, it's ok if your partner wears a suit with a vest? But, no one else can, because that would just make it too much of a queer spectacle?

For what it's worth, this is a photo of my partner, my partner's bestie and my SIL. My SIL is straight and was 6 months pregnant at the time of our wedding. She wore a tux because she wanted to match my partner. Not because it was some definition of her sexuality. She even took formal photos in her tux with her husband and two children. A suit doesn't make someone queer or make them a spectacle.

No one is being a bully or a meal girl by agreeing with you, that your homophobia is really bad. You admitted it yourself. Just because you weren't prepared to hear it, doesn't mean it's not true, or anyone was being mean to you.

Have your friend wear a nice pair of dress and a button up shirt without or without a jacket or tie. And seriously... get some therapy for your homophobia. You are doing yourself and your relationship a huge disservice.

Alexandrathgr8 · December 2013

But, it's ok if your partner wears a suit with a vest? But, no one else can, because that would just make it too much of a queer spectacle?

For what it's worth, this is a photo of my partner, my partner's bestie and my SIL. My SIL is straight and was 6 months pregnant at the time of our wedding. She wore a tux because she wanted to match my partner. Not because it was some definition of her sexuality. She even took formal photos in her tux with her husband and two children. A suit doesn't make someone queer or make them a spectacle.

No one is being a bully or a meal girl by agreeing with you, that your homophobia is really bad. You admitted it yourself. Just because you weren't prepared to hear it, doesn't mean it's not true, or anyone was being mean to you.

Have your friend wear a nice pair of dress and a button up shirt without or without a jacket or tie. And seriously... get some therapy for your homophobia. You are doing yourself and your relationship a huge disservice.

only my partner will be wearing a vest. no tie, no suit. I said nothing about it being because of anyone's sexuality- i just don't like it. I don't think it has anything to do with any internal homophobia because i don't want my bm's in suits... i was just asking for other ideas. and yes maybe i was too sensitive to the comments but i know i'm not the only op who has felt bullied- as can be seen on a plethora of other girl's posts.

climbingsingle · December 2013

Alexandrathgr8 said:

But, it's ok if your partner wears a suit with a vest? But, no one else can, because that would just make it too much of a queer spectacle?

For what it's worth, this is a photo of my partner, my partner's bestie and my SIL. My SIL is straight and was 6 months pregnant at the time of our wedding. She wore a tux because she wanted to match my partner. Not because it was some definition of her sexuality. She even took formal photos in her tux with her husband and two children. A suit doesn't make someone queer or make them a spectacle.

No one is being a bully or a meal girl by agreeing with you, that your homophobia is really bad. You admitted it yourself. Just because you weren't prepared to hear it, doesn't mean it's not true, or anyone was being mean to you.

Have your friend wear a nice pair of dress and a button up shirt without or without a jacket or tie. And seriously... get some therapy for your homophobia. You are doing yourself and your relationship a huge disservice.

only my partner will be wearing a vest. no tie, no suit. I said nothing about it being because of anyone's sexuality- i just don't like it. I don't think it has anything to do with any internal homophobia because i don't want my bm's in suits... i was just asking for other ideas. and yes maybe i was too sensitive to the comments but i know i'm not the only op who has felt bullied- as can be seen on a plethora of other girl's posts.

YOU are the one that called at your own homophobia in this situation. Maybe you need to go back and read what you posted.

Alexandrathgr8 · December 2013

YOU are the one that called at your own homophobia in this situation. Maybe you need to go back and read what you posted.

I did. but i don't really think it thats.. i just don't think i like girls in suits. It's not for me.

climbingsingle · December 2013

Alexandrathgr8 said:

YOU are the one that called at your own homophobia in this situation. Maybe you need to go back and read what you posted.
I did. but i don't really think it thats.. i just don't think i like girls in suits. It's not for me.

But your FI is wearing that, correct?

@KnotPorscha

Re: @KnotPorscha

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