Wedding Etiquette Forum

Vent-FI & Etiquette

We are having a Catholic Mass, followed by a reception at a venue 2.5 miles away from the church. We are having a cocktail hour/hors d'oeuvres for our guests at the venue, as we will be taking some pictures before we leave Church. Our invitation suite included inserts with all the information.

Here's the rub:

FI saw the invitation and asked why the time of the reception wasn't included. I indicated that it was, listed as following the conclusion of our Church ceremony. He said that his guests won't know what time to show up at the reception...because he's told them they don't need to go to the ceremony, since it's "long".

Now, I should state that FI is not Catholic, but knew before we got engaged my belief that marriage is a Sacrament, and I want to be married in the Church; he was fine with this, even insisted that we would change our wedding date if my parish didn't have our first choice available. I would have been perfectly fine doing the wedding ceremony only (about 30 mins), but it so happens that FI's uncle is a Catholic Priest, flying in from Rhode Island to perform our ceremony, and HE has indicated that it will be a full Wedding Mass, with Communion offered to all practicing Catholics in attendance (about half the guest list). FI is happy to do the pre-canae classes, but the length (an hour) is a sticking point.

I told him that I saw no need to give guests an option to only show up for the reception, I would kindly appreciate if he would stop "letting" his guests know they could "skip" our ceremony. I also informed him that, should anyone truly "skip" our wedding ceremony (barring a legitimate excuse, such as work), and attend "only" the reception, then that is the last invitation they will ever receive.

 

Wedding Countdown Ticker
«1

Re: Vent-FI & Etiquette

  • Our pre-marital counseling (pre-canae, required) starts in February. As far as the respect goes, he actually requested I wait until he came over before I lit the Advent candles this Christmas, and we say Grace at meals. He'll learn more about my faith, and what to expect from the process, during the classes.

    I'm pretty sure the biggest issue for FI is that he doesn't like to be the center of attention. As the B&G are typically the center of attention on their wedding day, he's a bit out of luck. I want to be respectful of his feelings, too, so if he's uncomfortable with the length of the service as we move along, I'm happy to make adjustments.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • Heh- sounds a bit like something my fiance did.  He told his co-workers (he works at a restaurant, and they'll all be working and busy the night we get married) that they're free to stop by the reception after they get off work.  EH?  He doesn't even LIKE most of them, and he's throwing an invitation out there as if he were saying "we'll be going to such-and-such bar tonight, stop by if you want."  Except their drinks will be on us.  *grumbles*  I know in his mind he thought he was being polite, but gah, sometimes...
    KittyKaty20nextrightthing
  • Your FI is so wrong on this. I find this even more rude since your FI's uncle is performing the ceremony. Weird that FI would have his relative do the ceremony and then tell his guests they don't have to attend.  
  • MNVegas said:
    Your FI is so wrong on this. I find this even more rude since your FI's uncle is performing the ceremony. Weird that FI would have his relative do the ceremony and then tell his guests they don't have to attend.  
    FI's uncle spent most of FI's life living on the East Coast (we are in CA), so they haven't had much interaction. The suggestion to ask FI's uncle came from FI's father, who had previously talked to uncle about it, etc. My favorite Priest is moving to a different parish in another city, so he wouldn't be available, and I liked the idea of this special connection.
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • Thank you, @laurynm84!

    We are doing First Look, BP, parent pictures before the ceremony; our photographer will take some pictures of the church before, during, and after; we will take the extended family pics after the bubble exit. At most, I expect our guests will be 30 minutes ahead of our reception "grand entrance". In addition to the food/drink we will have a fun trivia game to encourage guests to mingle about the venue.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • I would be super pissed at my H. You need to have a conversation saying that the ceremony IS the important part and he needs to value it. 
  • I'd be livid. And I ditto PPs about working through think in pre-Cana. I was raised Catholic, DH wasn't, and he converted during our engagement.

    He is also not a fan of being the centre of attention, but understood that, to me, the Sacrament was crucial. Through RCIA, he also learned about the important aspects of the faith, which helped him get where I was coming from.

    Also, except for Communion and the vows, we sat in the front pew, so we weren't front and centre with all eyes on us. That helped us both.
    Anniversary

    image
    I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'
    KittyKaty20
  • indianaalumindianaalum member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited January 2014

    We are having a Catholic Mass, followed by a reception at a venue 2.5 miles away from the church. We are having a cocktail hour/hors d'oeuvres for our guests at the venue, as we will be taking some pictures before we leave Church. Our invitation suite included inserts with all the information.

    Here's the rub:

    FI saw the invitation and asked why the time of the reception wasn't included. I indicated that it was, listed as following the conclusion of our Church ceremony. He said that his guests won't know what time to show up at the reception...because he's told them they don't need to go to the ceremony, since it's "long".

    Now, I should state that FI is not Catholic, but knew before we got engaged my belief that marriage is a Sacrament, and I want to be married in the Church; he was fine with this, even insisted that we would change our wedding date if my parish didn't have our first choice available. I would have been perfectly fine doing the wedding ceremony only (about 30 mins), but it so happens that FI's uncle is a Catholic Priest, flying in from Rhode Island to perform our ceremony, and HE has indicated that it will be a full Wedding Mass, with Communion offered to all practicing Catholics in attendance (about half the guest list). FI is happy to do the pre-canae classes, but the length (an hour) is a sticking point.

    I told him that I saw no need to give guests an option to only show up for the reception, I would kindly appreciate if he would stop "letting" his guests know they could "skip" our ceremony. I also informed him that, should anyone truly "skip" our wedding ceremony (barring a legitimate excuse, such as work), and attend "only" the reception, then that is the last invitation they will ever receive.

     

    As a practicing Catholic myself, I feel that comment is rather harsh. I was married and I think only about 50 percent or less of people came to the ceremony. They decided themselves to go only to the reception. Did any give me an explanation? no, not at all nor was I offended at all. I figured they had their reasons and never ever gave it a second thought

    Sometimes, it is a time factor. Sometimes, it is a comfort level or a location factor or whatever. 

    I get how your husband hurt your feelings with HOW he said it and it came off being dismissive, but ALOT of people opt out of going to Catholic ceremonies and only go to the reception so I am not sure he is necessarily wrong with people wanting to know the time of the reception. I just think he said it in a wrong way, perhaps. You should definitely discuss it with him and explain how you feel

    As a person who has been to a TON of Catholic weddings, it seems to be the norm (and no, not just because of the "dreaded" gap) to go only to the reception unless you are super close to the couple. I would say most Catholic weddings (regardless of a gap) had 50 percent or less people come to the ceremony. 


    nextrightthingjenniferurs
  • phiraphira Bahstin member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    I think it's worth remembering the advice we give people ALL the time when they want to have a tiered reception, or when they want to invite more people to the ceremony than the reception:

    Your reception is meant to thank your guests for attending your wedding.

    In this case, your fiance is encouraging his friends to skip your ceremony ... so they could essentially freeload the thank-you reception.

    Not only that, but what does that say about your actual marriage ceremony? "Some of my friends might find it boring, so I told them they can skip seeing me become your husband and just come for the big party."
    Anniversary
    now with ~* INCREASED SASSINESS *~
    image
    rajahmdSKPMWildMagelet
  • We were fortunate only 1 family (5 people out of our 57 guests) skipped our ceremony.  They said it was because they didn't want to bring their baby to the ceremony because she's fussy (perfectly understandable, although I also wouldn't have cared if they brought the baby either).

    And only a few of our guests are Catholic, so it was nice that so many non-Catholics still came, knowing it was a full mass.

    I do think it's disrespectful to miss a ceremony without a good reason, but I also wouldn't inquire as to their reason.  Just assume the best of your guests.



    SaveSave
    NYCBruinOliveOilsMom
  • APDSS22APDSS22 O-K-L-A-H-O-M-A is OK member
    Fifth Anniversary 1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    The only guest I had miss only one portion of the wedding was the guest that came to our Catholic wedding mass but had to miss out on the reception to be home with his sick wife.  Which I consider totally understandable.  People will spend an hour doing things a lot less meaningful than watching two people they care about get married so I guess I just don't understand this mindset, especially from the groom...
  • Of the 152 people we invited to our wedding, fewer than 40 of them were practising Catholics. Some of them hadn't been in ANY church in decades. Many of them had never once set foot in a Catholic church.

    Not one of them skipped the ceremony for the reception. Many of them asked me, before hand, if there would be programmes for them to follow along with and was it OK if they weren't Catholic or baptised or religious.

    Very much to my surprise, the non-Catholics/atheists were the most fond of the ceremony and the homily, and a goodly number of them joined in with the Mass responses.

    I agree with @banana468; people who skip the ceremony for anything other than a very good reason are rude. And I don't think anyone who skips the ceremony should then feel welcome to attend the reception. That's like crashing a thank-you party. You're being thanked for something you didn't do.
    Anniversary

    image
    I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'
    SKPMKittyKaty20OliveOilsMom
  • huskypuppy14huskypuppy14 Boston Suburbs member
    2500 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer

    We are having a Catholic Mass, followed by a reception at a venue 2.5 miles away from the church. We are having a cocktail hour/hors d'oeuvres for our guests at the venue, as we will be taking some pictures before we leave Church. Our invitation suite included inserts with all the information.

    Here's the rub:

    FI saw the invitation and asked why the time of the reception wasn't included. I indicated that it was, listed as following the conclusion of our Church ceremony. He said that his guests won't know what time to show up at the reception...because he's told them they don't need to go to the ceremony, since it's "long".

    Now, I should state that FI is not Catholic, but knew before we got engaged my belief that marriage is a Sacrament, and I want to be married in the Church; he was fine with this, even insisted that we would change our wedding date if my parish didn't have our first choice available. I would have been perfectly fine doing the wedding ceremony only (about 30 mins), but it so happens that FI's uncle is a Catholic Priest, flying in from Rhode Island to perform our ceremony, and HE has indicated that it will be a full Wedding Mass, with Communion offered to all practicing Catholics in attendance (about half the guest list). FI is happy to do the pre-canae classes, but the length (an hour) is a sticking point.

    I told him that I saw no need to give guests an option to only show up for the reception, I would kindly appreciate if he would stop "letting" his guests know they could "skip" our ceremony. I also informed him that, should anyone truly "skip" our wedding ceremony (barring a legitimate excuse, such as work), and attend "only" the reception, then that is the last invitation they will ever receive.

     

    As a practicing Catholic myself, I feel that comment is rather harsh. I was married and I think only about 50 percent or less of people came to the ceremony. They decided themselves to go only to the reception. Did any give me an explanation? no, not at all nor was I offended at all. I figured they had their reasons and never ever gave it a second thought

    Sometimes, it is a time factor. Sometimes, it is a comfort level or a location factor or whatever. 

    I get how your husband hurt your feelings with HOW he said it and it came off being dismissive, but ALOT of people opt out of going to Catholic ceremonies and only go to the reception so I am not sure he is necessarily wrong with people wanting to know the time of the reception. I just think he said it in a wrong way, perhaps. You should definitely discuss it with him and explain how you feel

    As a person who has been to a TON of Catholic weddings, it seems to be the norm (and no, not just because of the "dreaded" gap) to go only to the reception unless you are super close to the couple. I would say most Catholic weddings (regardless of a gap) had 50 percent or less people come to the ceremony. 


    As someone who also has been to a ton of Catholic weddings, I would say that no it is not the norm. Yes, there will be a few people that don't make it to the ceremony, but it's usually for a good reason, not a "oh I didn't want to show up for the boring ceremony". Anyone that would do that is so incredibly rude; the ceremony is the important part. That is the actual wedding! 
    image
    image

    image


    KittyKaty20
  • While I don't think your FI should be telling people that I wouldn't care if people came to the reception and not the ceremony.
    nextrightthing
  • lyndausvilyndausvi Western Slope, Colorado mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    I'll admit I'm not a fan of ceremonies.  Especially religious ones and I was raised Catholic.  I think I've only missed one, but that was because I had another wedding the same day.  I choose to attend 2 receptions than 2 ceremonies.    Even though I'm there physically, I'm not there mentally at all.  If there was a way to get out of a Catholic mass and go strait to the party without it being rude I would.  

    It's not rude to invite people only to the reception.  It's only rude to invite people to the ceremony and not the reception.  Sure people get disappointed not being invite to the ceremony, but it's not rude. Basically your FI is inviting them to the reception.  That in itself is not rude.    

    The fact you 2 are not on the same page is a different issue.   







    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
    nextrightthing
  • phiraphira Bahstin member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    I'm not Catholic (or any kind of Christian, nor was I ever), and if I were invited to a wedding, I would attend the ceremony, regardless of how long it was, or if it was a religion I was familiar with. To me, it's shitty etiquette as a guest to skip the ceremony and just come to the party without a legit reason.
    Anniversary
    now with ~* INCREASED SASSINESS *~
    image
    NYCBruinHisGirlFriday13KeptInStitchesRebeccaB88
  • bethsmilesbethsmiles Denver, CO member
    10000 Comments Sixth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited January 2014
    lyndausvi said:
    I'll admit I'm not a fan of ceremonies.  Especially religious ones and I was raised Catholic.  I think I've only missed one, but that was because I had another wedding the same day.  I choose to attend 2 receptions than 2 ceremonies.    Even though I'm there physically, I'm not there mentally at all.  If there was a way to get out of a Catholic mass and go strait to the party without it being rude I would.  

    It's not rude to invite people only to the reception.  It's only rude to invite people to the ceremony and not the reception.  Sure people get disappointed not being invite to the ceremony, but it's not rude. Basically your FI is inviting them to the reception.  That in itself is not rude.    

    The fact you 2 are not on the same page is a different issue.   

    From reading the posts on this board I was under the impression that is is rude to invite people only to the reception unless your ceremony is immediate family only.

    Personally, I can't imagine ever showing up to a reception if I didn't bother to go to the ceremony.


    KeptInStitchesSKPM
  • OP, I can only respond to what you've written - but in your first post and the one about FI learning what to expect & about your faith during the pre-canae, I wonder if you guys have different expectations or thoughts on more than just the wedding ceremony.  

    I'm guessing that if you told him that the way he told his guests that they could skip the ceremony because it'll be long really hurt your feelings and made you feel like he cared more about the party than actually getting married, I'm sure he will listen and stop doing that (and possibly go back and talk to whoever he told that to before).  I'd just do that right away so that the smallest amount of guests are told that.

    It might be nosy/not my place - but now would be a great time to talk about/decide some things about combining your lives - will you go to church together?  What kind of church?  Do you both want to?  If/when you have kids, will church (if so, what kind of church) be a part of their upbringing?

    These conversations are so much better to have early on, and I think the conversations about how faith will play a role in your lives together will help him understand how important the ceremony is to you.
    KittyKaty20HisGirlFriday13
  • If your FI is anything like my H was in planning, he doesn't really know how weddings normally work and wants to plan things in a way that please everyone.  It doesn't sound like he is telling people to skip the ceremony because he doesn't are about it or doesn't care about how you feel.  Did he know how you feel before he told people not to worry about the ceremony?  I do see why you are annoyed, and H and I definitely had similar conversations about etiquette stuff during plannng (e.g., he thought we had to either invite all kids or pay for sitters for all kids). 

    That said, are you sure you aren't overreacting a smide?  It seems like your FI has actually been receptive to making sure you get the Catholic wedding you want (and to your faith generally).  And am I reading right that you are having the long ceremony even though your FI doesn't want that?  How has he been about planning in general?  

    He may have just not known that telling people to skip the ceremony would make you mad.  Ask him not to tell everyone they can skip the ceremony, and then let this go.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • P.S. - Am I missing somethin?  I'm kind of surprised everyone would get mad at their FI for this.  If I got mad at my FI for every time he didn't know the rules of wedding-planning etiquette we never would have gotten married.  :)  Now if he did this despite knowing how strongly OP feels, different story.
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
    jenniferursktjanesmom
  • lyndausvilyndausvi Western Slope, Colorado mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its
    lyndausvi said:
    I'll admit I'm not a fan of ceremonies.  Especially religious ones and I was raised Catholic.  I think I've only missed one, but that was because I had another wedding the same day.  I choose to attend 2 receptions than 2 ceremonies.    Even though I'm there physically, I'm not there mentally at all.  If there was a way to get out of a Catholic mass and go strait to the party without it being rude I would.  

    It's not rude to invite people only to the reception.  It's only rude to invite people to the ceremony and not the reception.  Sure people get disappointed not being invite to the ceremony, but it's not rude. Basically your FI is inviting them to the reception.  That in itself is not rude.    

    The fact you 2 are not on the same page is a different issue.   

    From reading the posts on this board I was under the impression that is is rude to invite people only to the reception unless your ceremony is immediate family only.

    Personally, I can't imagine ever showing up to a reception if I didn't bother to go to the ceremony.
    Couples often have very small ceremonies and then larger parties later in the day.  It's not rude at all.    That doesn't mean people will not be hurt, but it's not rude even in etiquette books.

    I look at it this way.   The ceremony was between DH and I.  I was in complete tunnel vision.  My entire audience could have been naked and I would not have known that is how focused I was on him and the importance of what we were about to do.   Who was in the audience was completely irrelevant to me.  If it was not for the pictures I could not even tell you who was there outside of immediate family and the WP.  I see no need getting upset over something I would not have noticed anyway. 

    The reception is 2-fold for me.  It's a thank you for coming to the ceremony but it's also a celebration of our marriage.  The reception is where we interacted with the guests and that is where I noticed who was there or not.  So in the hierarchy of rudeness guest who accepted the invitation then no showed are worse then those who came for only part of the event.

    I respect why you are upset even though I don't agree.  However, I do not see him telling friends not to come to the ceremony as disrespecting your religion.   In the Catholic church marriage is a sacrament.  It's between you, your FI and the church.  He is attending the classes and allowing a church wedding.  That shows me he does have respect.   He just doesn't have the need to have friends witness something that is really between the two of you and the church. 

    Go ahead and tell him you are hurt using the etiquette angle and leave the church out if it. Ask him to stop telling people only to show up to the reception.  Then drop the subject.  It's doubtful by the time you walk down the aisle you will even notice everyone who is in the church anyway.






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
    indianaalum
  • indianaalumindianaalum member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited January 2014

    Our pre-marital counseling (pre-canae, required) starts in February. As far as the respect goes, he actually requested I wait until he came over before I lit the Advent candles this Christmas, and we say Grace at meals. He'll learn more about my faith, and what to expect from the process, during the classes.

    I'm pretty sure the biggest issue for FI is that he doesn't like to be the center of attention. As the B&G are typically the center of attention on their wedding day, he's a bit out of luck. I want to be respectful of his feelings, too, so if he's uncomfortable with the length of the service as we move along, I'm happy to make adjustments.

    That makes alot of sense. The actual ceremony is very stressful since you are on the altar for an hour. I say "cut him some slack". I actually was somewhat relieved when I didnt have 100+ people at my ceremony. I was terrified I would pass out and didn't want the added pressure of knowing everyone would watch it happen. 
    lyndausvi said:
    lyndausvi said:
    I'll admit I'm not a fan of ceremonies.  Especially religious ones and I was raised Catholic.  I think I've only missed one, but that was because I had another wedding the same day.  I choose to attend 2 receptions than 2 ceremonies.    Even though I'm there physically, I'm not there mentally at all.  If there was a way to get out of a Catholic mass and go strait to the party without it being rude I would.  

    It's not rude to invite people only to the reception.  It's only rude to invite people to the ceremony and not the reception.  Sure people get disappointed not being invite to the ceremony, but it's not rude. Basically your FI is inviting them to the reception.  That in itself is not rude.    

    The fact you 2 are not on the same page is a different issue.   

    From reading the posts on this board I was under the impression that is is rude to invite people only to the reception unless your ceremony is immediate family only.

    Personally, I can't imagine ever showing up to a reception if I didn't bother to go to the ceremony.
    Couples often have very small ceremonies and then larger parties later in the day.  It's not rude at all.    That doesn't mean people will not be hurt, but it's not rude even in etiquette books.

    I look at it this way.   The ceremony was between DH and I.  I was in complete tunnel vision.  My entire audience could have been naked and I would not have known that is how focused I was on him and the importance of what we were about to do.   Who was in the audience was completely irrelevant to me.  If it was not for the pictures I could not even tell you who was there outside of immediate family and the WP.  I see no need getting upset over something I would not have noticed anyway. 

    The reception is 2-fold for me.  It's a thank you for coming to the ceremony but it's also a celebration of our marriage.  The reception is where we interacted with the guests and that is where I noticed who was there or not.  So in the hierarchy of rudeness guest who accepted the invitation then no showed are worse then those who came for only part of the event.

    I respect why you are upset even though I don't agree.  However, I do not see him telling friends not to come to the ceremony as disrespecting your religion.   In the Catholic church marriage is a sacrament.  It's between you, your FI and the church.  He is attending the classes and allowing a church wedding.  That shows me he does have respect.   He just doesn't have the need to have friends witness something that is really between the two of you and the church. 

    Go ahead and tell him you are hurt using the etiquette angle and leave the church out if it. Ask him to stop telling people only to show up to the reception.  Then drop the subject.  It's doubtful by the time you walk down the aisle you will even notice everyone who is in the church anyway.
    I totally agree. I didn't notice who was in the church until I looked at the pictures. I was focused on getting married to my husband and didn't notice who was in there. I wasn't even in the least bit offended if people came only to reception, because it meant they DID want to celebrate my day with me but that perhaps they had to work or couldn't get a babysitter, or whatever. I never assumed "they didn't care enough to witness the marriage" at all. I figured they each had their reasons.

    I agree with PP, the reception is technically a "Thank you" for attending ceremony, but I agree more with the sentiment that it is ALSO a celebration of the marriage that day, as well.

    lyndausviKittyKaty20
  • I would be super hurt and feel really disrespected. I think it's rude for guest to just come to the reception(unless there is a legitimate excuse of course). It just makes me feel like they are only there for the food, not for the couple...
    Daisypath Wedding tickers
    RebeccaB88
  • indianaalumindianaalum member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited January 2014
    I would be super hurt and feel really disrespected. I think it's rude for guest to just come to the reception(unless there is a legitimate excuse of course). It just makes me feel like they are only there for the food, not for the couple...
    First of all, you might know what their reason is, so how will you possibly know if it is a good one? I had several people come only to the reception. To this day, I couldn't tell you a reason why a single one didn't come nor do I care. They still celebrated my wedding day with me.

    I always go to the ceremony, so don't get me wrong  BUT....If I was planning on going to a  the reception JUST for the food, I'd save myself a hundred dollars or more on a gift and go to a fancy restaurant instead. I find that whole thought absurd

    I don't get why people would feel used. 99 percent of people show up to a reception, give a nice gift and end up spending way more than they would have if they went to a fancy restaurant all on their own once all the wedding-related expense (gift, gas, new outfit sometimes, etc)

    Not that I invited people for gifts, but I made several thousand dollars MORE than my reception cost me in cash gifts alone. More than 50 percent of my guests didn't come to the ceremony, CLEARLY nobody came just for a free meal when you look at the financial aspect of things

    I am not saying people shouldn't go to a ceremony, but I hardly believe people who skip it and go only to reception are purposely trying to "cheat the system" at all.

    Personally, I think it's a bridezilla comment to say "if they don't come to the ceremony, they don't deserve the reception". To ME, that's "this is MY day and it doesn't matter if you have to pay extra for a babysitter, take extra time off from work to get here earlier, drive all around the city etx, you don't love me enough if you don't dedicate the ENTIRE day with me"  Somtimes time is money for people and we have to respect that some times people can't put all that and do what they can. They are still celebrating with you regardless of whether they come late or leave early.

    Clearly, if someone doesn't care about a person, they'd rsvp NO to the wedding






    kates919
This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards