Etiquette RANT!

tcnoble · January 2014

This is simply a vent/rant, but also please tell me if I am totally off base with my feelings.

I got engaged in September. One of my best friends got engaged a month later. I'm getting married March 2015, she's getting married August 2014, so we are both in the midst of wedding planning and all that good stuff. On one hand, I have spent many hours on TK boards and asked many questions to make sure my event is properly hosted and I am doing all the "right" things. On the other hand, she has done none of that (as far as I can tell). The results..

1. A/B guest list

2. Inviting more guests than her venue can hold

3. Hosting her own bachelorette party

4. All BMs must wear same dress (she IS buying), get matching manis/pedis, and matching shoes (this might just be a personal annoyance)

and best of all...

5. A 2.5 hour unhosted gap

Am I totally wrong for wanting to send her direct links to the various forums on here that address these issues and why they're such a concern??? AHHH.

Jen4948 · January 2014

Not even slightly.

But it sounds like she's not going to take any advice from us either. I think she'll have to suffer the consequences of her own crummy decisions.

Maggie0829 · January 2014

I understand your feelings. I had a friend who had some major etiquette faux pas (donation in lieu of favors, didn't invite certain SOs, HM registry etc) that I cringed at but unless she out right asked me about those ideas I kept my mouth shut.

Sometimes you have to let the people you love trip, fall, and bust their face open for them to learn anything.

HisGirlFriday13 · January 2014

I just posted in another thread all of the etiquette faux pas that my BIL and FSIL are planning for their upcoming wedding. Do I wish I could fix it? Yes. But I know that I can't, so I'm just going to grit my teeth, smile, nod, and tell all y'all about it so that at least I can laugh about it.

kmmssg · January 2014

Yeah, just smile, nod your head and let he know that you have gotten so many great ideas on the knot! Maybe she would too!!!

Cookie Pusher · January 2014

My FSIL's wedding had a lot of etiquette faux pas (and she treated all of us as unpaid labor), but we all smiled and did as we were asked (mostly). When all was said and done, she wouldn't have listened to us anyway because she is a very speshul snowflake and would have cried until she got her way. Less painful for us to just suck it up, as polite guests do.

doeydo · January 2014

I would not point out what they are doing is rude but I might say something like "You should really go on The Knot Forum. It is full of other brides and they have really helped me out" or something like that.

OliveOilsMom · January 2014

I may kindly warn her about over inviting the max a room can handle. Tell her that you are on TK and actually have seen people have had 100% attendance. Also tell her that you are trying to give her a heads up so she doesn't have a crisis on her hands a few weeks before her wedding. The other stuff I would just let pass unless she specifically says something to you.

tcnoble · January 2014

Thanks guys! I have mentioned the boards and how I have found out so much about wedding planning do's, dont's, and great ideas... to no avail.

@scribe95 that's why I put personal annoyance in parenthesis. I don't mind matching dresses especially since she is paying, but the matching manis/pedis/shoes for floor length dresses is a little much in my opinion.. again just MY opinion, I realize this isn't a total etiquette faux pas.

tcnoble · January 2014

@OliveOilsMom this was the biggest one I tried to steer her in the right direction because, as you said, the other issues are whatever and won't make or break the day (despite the lack of etiquette). She is adamant that "not everyone will RSVP yes" to which I replied "and what if they all DO?!" and she didn't respond to that. Sooooo we will see what happens.

afox007 · January 2014

kmmssg said:
Yeah, just smile, nod your head and let he know that you have gotten so many great ideas on the knot! Maybe she would too!!!

Just make sure you say the good ideas were from the forums not the actual site. TK seems to enjoy giving ideas without etiquette in mind

devdalberts · January 2014

tcnoble said:

Thanks guys! I have mentioned the boards and how I have found out so much about wedding planning do's, dont's, and great ideas... to no avail.

@scribe95 that's why I put personal annoyance in parenthesis. I don't mind matching dresses especially since she is paying, but the matching manis/pedis/shoes for floor length dresses is a little much in my opinion.. again just MY opinion, I realize this isn't a total etiquette faux pas.

Is she paying for said manis and pedis? If so you can paint my nails puce and call me Sally.

blabla89 · January 2014

I could get a good mani/pedi and shoes for less than a cost of a basic DB dress, so I'd be okay with that arrangement. The rest of it is pretty awful and you certainly have a right to be frustrated.

melbenso · January 2014

@Maggie0829 - I wasn't aware that donations instead of favors were an etiquette no-no. Being a fairly politically active sort of person, I thought it was pretty cool when I was at a wedding and they made a donation to the Peace Core (which bride had volunteered with) instead of favors. Just out of curiosity, why is it considered rude?

Inkdancer · January 2014

melbenso said:

@Maggie0829 - I wasn't aware that donations instead of favors were an etiquette no-no. Being a fairly politically active sort of person, I thought it was pretty cool when I was at a wedding and they made a donation to the Peace Core (which bride had volunteered with) instead of favors. Just out of curiosity, why is it considered rude?

It's considered rude because it can come across as an attention whore sort of thing to do. Sort of "look at us we're so generous we gave all this money to charity but not to you guys". If you want to donate that's fine, but favors aren't required in the first place so why advertise that you did this?

JCbride2015 · January 2014

Inkdancer said:

melbenso said:

@Maggie0829 - I wasn't aware that donations instead of favors were an etiquette no-no. Being a fairly politically active sort of person, I thought it was pretty cool when I was at a wedding and they made a donation to the Peace Core (which bride had volunteered with) instead of favors. Just out of curiosity, why is it considered rude?

It's considered rude because it can come across as an attention whore sort of thing to do. Sort of "look at us we're so generous we gave all this money to charity but not to you guys". If you want to donate that's fine, but favors aren't required in the first place so why advertise that you did this?

@melbenso Yeah I would be really annoyed going to a wedding where I saw this. It just draws attention to the couple and it's like they're bragging about how generous they are. And then it underscores for the guests that they aren't getting a favor to take home. If the couple wants to donate, just do it quietly. This isn't the worst etiquette thing you can do but it's definitely a faux pas.

And I swear I'm not saying this out of snarkiness, just a pet peeve of mine: it's Peace Corps, sounds like Peace Core but spelled differently. A corps, like a "body" of people. I did another "--corps" program and I just hate to see it wrong.

melbenso · January 2014

Gotcha. And yes, spelling is not my strong point early in the morning.

LondonLisa · January 2014

That is annoying! My SIL's wedding was an etiquette total nightmare. She married a guy who was a bit trashy and has taken his lifestyle to heart. I'm talking cash bar (even for fizzy drinks), tiered reception, registry information in the invite, threw her own hen party, potluck dessert bar, basically the whole 9 yards! They were even upset that they did not receive a lot of money from the bar to pay for the fireworks they ordered! Fi's parents were utterly mortified but as they were not hosting, they couldn't force them to change their ways. (They tried to step in and pay for it to be properly hosted, but the couple refused!)

But you'll know that everyone remember's her wedding as the completely declasse one. It doesn't reflect on anyone else but the hosts. So unless they ask you directly, you really can't say anything beyond "check out the TK e-boards, they're great for tips" and leaving it at that.

Side note for newbies and lurkers: This just goes to show that just because no one is outright calling you on your E fails to your face doesn't mean they aren't upset by it. I will bet you £100,000,000 of Her Majesty's finest pounds sterling that they are side-eyeing and gossiping about you behind your back if you are trying to pull any of this mess!

JellyBean52513 · January 2014

melbenso said:

@Maggie0829 - I wasn't aware that donations instead of favors were an etiquette no-no. Being a fairly politically active sort of person, I thought it was pretty cool when I was at a wedding and they made a donation to the Peace Core (which bride had volunteered with) instead of favors. Just out of curiosity, why is it considered rude?

In addition to what PPs have said, it can also be considered rude because not all guests want money going to a charity "in their honor" if it's one they don't support. Donating to charity is a personal choice and I don't need nor want to be associated with someone's choice to donate money if my personal beliefs don't align with that.

PrettyGirlLost · January 2014

tcnoble said:

Thanks guys! I have mentioned the boards and how I have found out so much about wedding planning do's, dont's, and great ideas... to no avail.

@scribe95 that's why I put personal annoyance in parenthesis. I don't mind matching dresses especially since she is paying, but the matching manis/pedis/shoes for floor length dresses is a little much in my opinion.. again just MY opinion, I realize this isn't a total etiquette faux pas.

You don't need to buy matching shoes if the dress is floor length. Don't tell the bride you aren't going to do it, just don't do it.

I had a Bride/friend who was being irrational about this sort of thing too. . . she also wanted our dresses to be hemmed so that you couldn't see our feet. Um, no. I'm not going to risk tripping over your damn wedding.

Guess what? I had my dress hemmed properly and I did not buy the matching shoes she wanted us all to buy, I wore a pair I already owned, and the bride was never the wiser.

SKPM · January 2014

melbenso said:
@Maggie0829 - I wasn't aware that donations instead of favors were an etiquette no-no. Being a fairly politically active sort of person, I thought it was pretty cool when I was at a wedding and they made a donation to the Peace Core (which bride had volunteered with) instead of favors. Just out of curiosity, why is it considered rude?

PPs covered the biggest reasons why, but these discussions of donations for favors always strike me as odd because, why are you withholding something (a favor) from your guests in order to make a donation? The day that a bride comes on here and says she is foregoing her bouquet and donating that money to her favorite charity, I will be truly impressed.

tcnoble · January 2014

@PrettyGirlLost her mom insists on picking out the shoes, but I already told her I wear a size 12 shoe. Yep, a 12. So good luck finding a pair that will fit me, and is it wrong of me to insist I will NOT wear heels? I'm 5'10"... I don't like heels, I'm uncomfortable in heels. How do I respond when she shows me the shoes her mom has picked (assuming they are heels) and I don't want to wear them?? Or should I start looking now for a pair I like and just send the link and say hey I bought these! AHH!

crunchymamaof2 · January 2014

@PrettyGirlLost her mom insists on picking out the shoes, but I already told her I wear a size 12 shoe. Yep, a 12. So good luck finding a pair that will fit me, and is it wrong of me to insist I will NOT wear heels? I'm 5'10"... I don't like heels, I'm uncomfortable in heels. How do I respond when she shows me the shoes her mom has picked (assuming they are heels) and I don't want to wear them?? Or should I start looking now for a pair I like and just send the link and say hey I bought these! AHH!

Stuck in the box:
I'd be tempted to let her buy them and just wear what you want at the wedding.

PrettyGirlLost · January 2014

tcnoble said:

@PrettyGirlLost her mom insists on picking out the shoes, but I already told her I wear a size 12 shoe. Yep, a 12. So good luck finding a pair that will fit me, and is it wrong of me to insist I will NOT wear heels? I'm 5'10"... I don't like heels, I'm uncomfortable in heels. How do I respond when she shows me the shoes her mom has picked (assuming they are heels) and I don't want to wear them?? Or should I start looking now for a pair I like and just send the link and say hey I bought these! AHH!

Not wrong of you at all! Your feet, your body, your fashion preference.

If her mom gives you heels, my suggestion is to smile politely and graciously accept them, and then hide them in your closet until after the wedding is over. . . then Ebay those suckers!

In the mean time, go ahead and find/buy a pair of flats that you like and wear those, or just wear a pair you already own. Don't tell the Bride or MOB. "Hey these are the flats I am going to wear." Just show up on the day of the wedding and wear them. I doubt anyone will notice what is on your feet and if they do, well it's too late at that point.

I know people will read this and think I'm just being an impertinent bitch, but people are not props for photos and their personal comfort and taste should be taken into consideration, and not everything in life needs to be a discussion or a fight. If you can subtly go about doing your own thing w/o drawing too much attention to yourself and you avoid causing unwanted drama with a controlling Bride, then just quietly do your own thing.

Brides need to learn to stop micromanaging every piece of attire their BM's are going to wear or their guests are going to wear because no one else freaking cares what any of them are wearing!

tcnoble · January 2014

@acove2006 @prettygirllost I too am tempted to just show up and wear what I want but am also fearful of any day-of arguments. I straight up told the bride that I'm so tall and hate shoe shopping in general and just feel awkward in heels and I would prefer to wear flats. She said she has no clue what her mom is thinking so I'm going to continue searching and see what I can find that I like. But really.. if she provides me with heels, do I really show up in my own shoes and just hope it doesn't cause an issue? AHH. I don't want them to think I am blatantly disrespecting them but in a way they would be disrespecting me if they knew my concerns and ignored them. Why is this even an issue?!? I hope my BMs will appreciate that they could show up in converse sneakers and I wouldn't bat an eye. ha.

I agree, the micromanaging is out of control in some instances. I understand wanting things to look nice but I would be more concerned that I think my guests care more about SHOES than any other aspect of the wedding.

PrettyGirlLost · January 2014

tcnoble said:

@acove2006 @prettygirllost I too am tempted to just show up and wear what I want but am also fearful of any day-of arguments. Ok then bring the heels and act like you are gonna wear them, but put your flats on as you go to walk down the aisle. What is the Bride gonna do, scream at you right before she goes down the aisle? Let her, she will look like a fool. I'm sorry, but I personally am not going to wear uncomfortable foot wear forced on my by another person. If I am choosing fashion over comfort, I'm the stupid one making me do it! I straight up told the bride that I'm so tall and hate shoe shopping in general and just feel awkward in heels and I would prefer to wear flats. She said she has no clue what her mom is thinking so I'm going to continue searching and see what I can find that I like. It's the Bride's job here to tell her mother that you do not wish to wear heels and that you never wear heels,period. But really.. if she provides me with heels, do I really show up in my own shoes and just hope it doesn't cause an issue? Yes if the heels are really going to make you super uncomfortable, or you are gonna fall on your face bc you never wear them. If you feel the mother is going to be reasonable, if she buys you heels then thank her and tell her you can't wear heels and you will be happy to get a pair of flats. If you think the mother is going to be a PIA about it, do as I suggested previously. AHH. I don't want them to think I am blatantly disrespecting them but in a way they would be disrespecting me if they knew my concerns and ignored them. Why is this even an issue?!? I hope my BMs will appreciate that they could show up in converse sneakers and I wouldn't bat an eye. ha.

I agree, the micromanaging is out of control in some instances. I understand wanting things to look nice but I would be more concerned that I think my guests care more about SHOES than any other aspect of the wedding. In these instances the Brides aren't thinking the guests care about the shoes or anything else for that matter, they are just thinking about themselves and what they want, and what they care about.

RebeccaB88 · January 2014

A friend once bought us all gorgeous 3 inch black peau de soie heels to wear in her wedding. (I still own and wear them, they're awesome.) Or, they were great until I injured my hamstring in dance class a month before. Yeah, I was still expected to wear them, it was made perfectly clear to me. (Under a floor length gown, at that. But the dress was already hemmed for the heels and I'm short.) I brought my own dressy flats for the reception and I heard about it from her. She shut up when her mom asked her why it was important for me to be uncomfortable at the reception, when I sucked it up for the ceremony and pictures AND spent the morning running errands for her, wearing jewelry I was allergic to ( for the uniform), and hosted her shower.

happywiggle · January 2014

I feel your pain!

One of the big ones that came up is that I have two weddings I am attending this summer. As I was perusing the wedding websites, BOTH had attire instructions. One of which very bluntly states "Attire is semi-formal to formal. NO EXCEPTIONS" (or close enough, I don't remember the exact wording) Nothing about it being venue-required. I'm sitting there thinking "Do your really think I don't know how to dress for a wedding, really?" The other says something about it being nice clothes for the ceremony, a suggestion for shoes that will allow you to walk on grass and rocks as it's an outdoor ceremony, and that everyone is welcome to change into jeans after the ceremony for the reception (I'm not sure how I feel about telling people they can wear jeans for the reception; it just seems odd to me to actually tell people this on the website).

Oh, and they both use TK!

OnionBreath · January 2014

1. A/B guest list
2. Inviting more guests than her venue can hold
3. Hosting her own bachelorette party( I'd keep my mouth shut)
4. All BMs must wear same dress (she IS buying), get matching manis/pedis, and matching shoes (this might just be a personal annoyance)
and best of all...
5. A 2.5 hour unhosted gap

Am I totally wrong for wanting to send her direct links to the various forums on here that address these issues and why they're such a concern??? AHHH.

I'd suck it up on the gap

Her dress request for bridal party is not a breach of etiquette whether she's paying or not.

The mani/pedi request is a bit much, but she's paying for the dresses, I wouldn't say anything.

If the B list came up in conversation, I'd suggest a timeframe to send those invites by so people don't realize they were after thoughts.

But the only thing I'd really mention to her is inviting more people than the venue can hold. What happens if they all show up? It's happened. My FMIL went to her nephew's wedding and people left early because there weren't enough seats/meals at the venue. We don't know what on earth they were thinking.

Can you imagine how embarrassing it would be to have people asked to leave by the venue because the couple invited too many people and were breaking fire regs?

antoto · January 2014

tcnoble said:

@PrettyGirlLost her mom insists on picking out the shoes, but I already told her I wear a size 12 shoe. Yep, a 12. So good luck finding a pair that will fit me, and is it wrong of me to insist I will NOT wear heels? I'm 5'10"... I don't like heels, I'm uncomfortable in heels. How do I respond when she shows me the shoes her mom has picked (assuming they are heels) and I don't want to wear them?? Or should I start looking now for a pair I like and just send the link and say hey I bought these! AHH!

If this were me I would suck it up for the ceremony/photos and change for the reception. As long as the ceremony isn't super long you will be in them for a total of like 40 minutes, maybe - of your entire life. I feel this is not such a huge favor for her to ask of you. I have worn dresses I wasn't in love with, jewelry I wasn't in love with... but it was only for a few hours and it made the bride happy. I guess I am just the sort of person who will not flip out if I am not wearing EXACTLY what I want every second of every day. Now if it's for a reason like an injury, then yeah. She would be awful to ask that of you. But if it's only because you will be a few inches taller? For a few minutes of your life? Come on.

tcnoble · January 2014

@antoto you do make a good point. She is doing a full catholic mass and ceremony, then spending an hour or two doing pictures with all of us around town. So, it will really come down to what her mom finds. I do think you present a great alternative though!

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