NWR: Needing to vent

MadHops21 · February 2014

So Philip Hoffman died by overdosing, right? Well, this one chick on FB went off on a rant, saying how she doesn't care he died because he did it to himself and left his kids behind. "People need to grow up if you have a drug problem then get help don't be a coward and take the easy way out. So annoying"

The boyfriend has chimed in, saying that addiction is "something that is easy to kick by pure self control." I have never tried drugs or had any addictions, but I know how tough that can be. And to make such a blanket statement about someone you don't personally just annoys me.

climbingsingle · February 2014

They are both assholes.

My dad is an alcoholic, as is my brother. It's a lifelong battle. It's not as easy at "growing up" and "self control". That's the whole fucking point of addiction.

Sorry. That really pissed me off.

emmyg65 · February 2014

I'd probably unfriend her. That view of addiction and mental illness is just so damaging.

tmclawchick · February 2014

Totally get where you're coming from here, and I agree that those comments were a little off. It's sad that he's gone so soon.

That being said, I don't know how much sympathy I really have for him either. He had the means (financial, familial, etc) to get clean, as evidenced by his previous stays in rehab. He was supposed to pick up his 3 children (ages 5-10), but instead shot up and overdosed. What was his original plan? Shoot up, get behind the wheel, go pick them up and and be responsible for them? Maybe bring them back to his apartment with heroin bags and syringes around? *side eye*

If this was anyone else, people would be chiming in about how he was a deadbeat/awful parent, but since he was a good actor we tweet tributes and make him out to be some sort of martyr. Please.

*steps off soap box*

PolarBearFitz · February 2014

Wow...too bad their ignorance isn't as easy for them to cure as they think addiction is...

MadHops21 · February 2014

The kicker is that this chick has a chemical unbalance in her brain, which makes her depressed. It's not like I can just tell her 'Hey, stop being so depressing. It's not cool."

I've retorted, stating some facts, but they just aren't listening. Here's her latest comment:

There is a difference between people that have no resources and no where to turn and and then there are people that have resources and don't use them (famous people) if he has been a reco ered addict for 23 years He didnt have a counselor to call? These people have their own personal doctors that come to their houses.

PolarBearFitz · February 2014

Kelcita21 said:

The kicker is that this chick has a chemical unbalance in her brain, which makes her depressed. It's not like I can just tell her 'Hey, stop being so depressing. It's not cool."

I've retorted, stating some facts, but they just aren't listening. Here's her latest comment:

There is a difference between people that have no resources and no where to turn and and then there are people that have resources and don't use them (famous people) if he has been a reco ered addict for 23 years He didnt have a counselor to call? These people have their own personal doctors that come to their houses.

Does she have an English teacher to call for her terrible punctuation issues?

Anytime someone dies, I have sympathy for at least their family. His kids didn't do anything to deserve to lose their dad even if he did it to himself. Anyone who thinks they may pass judgement on someone's life they were not even a part of is stepping out of their place.

I do not think it's right to be declaring 'what you thought of his circumstances' when you really just know what the media has told you about them.

KatWAG · February 2014

I would stay way out of this type of debate, especially when its taking place on FB.

MadHops21 · February 2014

I have stopped replying. This amount of ignorance is just too much. It doesn't help that her boyfriend is supporting it and telling the chick that "everyone commenting is butthurt."

MadHops21 · February 2014

tmclawchick - I do agree that people really only care because he was an actor. If it was anyone else, it would not gain such media. I feel so bad for those children. This chick's SIL also died from cancer, leaving behind 2 little girls, and I just cannot imagine leaving behind children so young.

ETA forgetting words

banana468 · February 2014

Having the resources doesn't mean that the person is ready to admit that there is a problem or that he should seek help for it.

Let's also remember that those with money and power are just as easily enabled as they are properly coached.

Addiction is far too complex to treat as a black and white issue.

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

I'd unfriend. Seriously. Ain't nobody got time for attitudes like that.

MadHops21 · February 2014

Chick's view is that if you're famous, you have money, and you have someone that can come to your house at all hours and tell you to get over.

I just...I can't...ugh.

PolarBearFitz · February 2014

Another thing I would like to add is I was raised not to speak ill of the dead regardless of how they died. Is that not good manners anymore? We just pass angry/rude judgements of dead people we don't even actually know? Goodness.

SmileDamnit · February 2014

banana468 said:

Having the resources doesn't mean that the person is ready to admit that there is a problem or that he should seek help for it. Let's also remember that those with money and power are just as easily enabled as they are properly coached. Addiction is far too complex to treat as a black and white issue.

This. Regardless of resources or lack thereof, he was an addict. Rich or poor, strong family unit or alone, famous actor or school teacher, parent or not…addiction affects all walks of life and falling in a particular category in life doesn't make dealing with the disease any easier. It just sucks all around.

MadHops21 · February 2014

UPDATE: She deleted her post. I'm thinking the 25+ comments on it made her rethink it. And her ignorance.

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

Also, not that you could make this argument to stupid, closed-minded, hateful people, but all the resources in the world won't help you get clean if you don't have the internal desire to do so.

It took DH six failed attempts to quit smoking -- he had to WANT to do it, and be committed to doing it, before the copious resources available to him could be used effectively.

MadHops21 · February 2014

HisGirlFriday13 - I have a girlfriend that has a chronic disease, and smoking makes the flare ups worse. She will quit for a couple months, then start again. She keeps talking about how she can quit whenever she wants, and does at a time, but I really don't think she actually WANTS to. She keeps quitting-smoking-quitting-smoking. Makes me upset to see her going back to the doctor when flare ups are awful.

tmclawchick · February 2014

*shrug*

I just don't see it. I feel awful for his loved ones, especially his children. They're the real victims here. I don't feel sorry for him, or anyone else who chooses their addiction over their loved ones.

banana468 · February 2014

tmclawchick said:
*shrug*

I just don't see it. I feel awful for his loved ones, especially his children. They're the real victims here. I don't feel sorry for him, or anyone else who chooses their addiction over their loved ones.

This is a very ignorant statement. I don't think anyone is saying that his children aren't victims ( apologies for the double negative) .

People addicted aren't making the cognizant choice to choose drugs over family.

I've watched others suffer though their life ending addictions and your statements are absolutely infuriating. Do some research first please.

PolarBearFitz · February 2014

tmclawchick said:

*shrug*

I just don't see it. I feel awful for his loved ones, especially his children. They're the real victims here. I don't feel sorry for him, or anyone else who chooses their addiction over their loved ones.

Addiction isn't always a black and white decision especially if it's a physical addiction. This is a really ignorant statement. Those who are addicted have a problem that can take years to solve.

tmclawchick · February 2014

Let's agree to disagree on this one.

banana468 · February 2014

tmclawchick said:
Let's agree to disagree on this one.

Nope. This isn't a toilet paper over or under debate.

Your statements are uneducated. Period. Continue to believe them all you want but please don't say them out loud as if they have merit.

tmclawchick · February 2014

Excuse me? Sorry, you don't get to tell me what I can and can't say. My original point stands. I don't feel sorry for him. He was to pick up his three young children and instead chose to shoot up. That behavior is completely unacceptable, and the fact that people seem to be making him into a martyr is infuriating to me.

banana468 · February 2014

You aren't getting it. He wasn't making a choice. Those suffering with addiction to drugs, particularly something as addictive as heroin, are ruled by the addiction.

Do you seriously think that we would have rehabilitation centers specializing in addiction if those suffering from the disease (Yes. It's a disease as indicated in the DSM. ) could just choose not to take the drug? Really???

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

banana468 said:

You aren't getting it. He wasn't making a choice. Those suffering with addiction to drugs, particularly something as addictive as heroin, are ruled by the addiction. Do you seriously think that we would have rehabilitation centers specializing in addiction if those suffering from the disease (Yes. It's a disease as indicated in the DSM. ) could just choose not to take the drug? Really???

This. All of this. People don't choose to be addicts anymore than they choose to have blonde hair or blue eyes. A predilection to addiction is in our DNA -- and dates back to Neanderthal times (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25944817).

@tmclawchick -- it's not a matter of choice, and your continued statement that it is makes me lose respect for you. Did PSH make a bad decision? Yes, yes he did. And he paid for it WITH HIS LIFE. But he didn't CHOOSE to be an addict. He didn't CHOOSE to have screwed-up brain chemistry that makes him more susceptible to addiction than other people.

tmclawchick · February 2014

My grandfather was an alcoholic for over 20 years, and he died as a result. My father is an alcoholic, and has (fortunately) stayed sober for over 3 years (though the memories and emotional trauma are still present). My sister, knowing how we may be predisposed to alcoholism, is currently an alcoholic. I may know a thing or two about addiction. I likely have such negative opinions BECAUSE of my experiences in watcing addition tear apart relationships, not because I know nothing about it. What I do know is that my sister didn't just wake up out of the blue craving a drink. She drank, socially at first. Now it's a huge issue that's taken its grip, ended her marriage, wrecked her career, and honestly, I'm pissed. The first time you choose to take a drink/shoot up/hell, smoke a cigarette, you're playing a risky game, even under ideal circumstances. While the addiction takes over, it all stems from a choice that was made. I'd be willing to bet PSH didn't wake up suddenly craving heroin either.

That's really all I have to say on the matter. Again, I'm content with agreeing to disagree here.

pumpkinsandturkeys · February 2014

tmclawchick said:

My grandfather was an alcoholic for over 20 years, and he died as a result. My father is an alcoholic, and has (fortunately) stayed sober for over 3 years (though the memories and emotional trauma are still present). My sister, knowing how we may be predisposed to alcoholism, is currently an alcoholic. I may know a thing or two about addiction. I likely have such negative opinions BECAUSE of my experiences in watcing addition tear apart relationships, not because I know nothing about it. What I do know is that my sister didn't just wake up out of the blue craving a drink. She drank, socially at first. Now it's a huge issue that's taken its grip, ended her marriage, wrecked her career, and honestly, I'm pissed. The first time you choose to take a drink/shoot up/hell, smoke a cigarette, you're playing a risky game, even under ideal circumstances. While the addiction takes over, it all stems from a choice that was made. I'd be willing to bet PSH didn't wake up suddenly craving heroin either.

That's really all I have to say on the matter. Again, I'm content with agreeing to disagree here.

Everyone makes questionable choices at some point. Would you want every bad and possibly life-threatening decision you've ever made to be held against you?

It's also strange to take the stance that your sister should have never began drinking socially to begin with, because it's a "risky game." Are you saying that no one should ever drink, for fear of becoming an alcoholic? While shooting heroin for the first time is a bad decision, there's no guarantee that you will become addicted -- it could just be a one-off, and be one of those poor choices you're glad didn't come back to bite you.

I disagree with living your life in fear of the worst-case scenario, whatever that may be. I understand where your bias comes from (I've dealt with addicts my whole life, too), but applying blanket statements and pigeon-holing everyone isn't helping things. Once an addiction takes hold, that person is not in control anymore. They may have moments of clarity where they're able to ask for help, but a lot of times, they're forced into it.

banana468 · February 2014

That thinking is SO short sighted. I'm all for being angry and using tough love but when you're dealing with addiction, it's the addiction running the behavior of the person.

With that line of thinking I should never drink wine because I have alcoholics up and down both sides of my family. I also have plenty of family members related to those who struggle with addiction who have no issue. Are you saying that my mother shouldn't drink because she lost a sister due to addiction, her brother is an alcoholic in recovery and her father also dealt with those demons? Should we go back to prohibition because some people may have a problem?

Also, I need to correct one of your terms. Your father IS an alcoholic. He is in recovery but he'll always be addicted.

JCbride2015 · February 2014

I am so heartbroken about PSH. He had been clean for so long and only recently relapsed. He obviously was a loving dad to his children and he was way too young to go.

I have very mixed feelings on the topic of addiction. My dad is an addict (IS, always will be). He was clean for 5 years when I was a really little kid, but had several relapses during my childhood and would go on benders for days when my mom had no idea where he was.

Yes, as a child I felt like he actively chose his addiction over me. And of course in a sense, every addict makes choices. But I've realized over time that once the addiction takes hold, the addict has a lot of strong brain chemistry influencing their choices. It takes a LOT to get clean, and all the resources and money in the world won't help you if you aren't internally ready. It's not an active choice between your addiction and your kids. It's a compulsion.

Sure, addiction can be overcome. Just like depression or schizophrenia or any other number of brain conditions can be overcome. But I think it's unfair to addicts to say they make an active choice every time they use.

This is a pretty good article about the "it's a choice" argument: http://www.electricfeast.com/a-note-about-philip-seymour-hoffman-addiction-is-not-selfish/

jdluvr06 · February 2014

I would unfriend her. One of my highschool friends had a horrible drug addiction. He was in and out of rehab and no matter how hard he tried he couldn't seem to kick the habit. He died from an overdose three years ago, two weeks after his last rehab stay. It is not an easy thing to stop.

NWR: Needing to vent

Re: NWR: Needing to vent

Choose Another Board

Search Boards