.

MobKaz · February 2014

banana468 said:

lyndausvi said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

Nice job on quoting, @banana468! Also, how do Catholic brides not know this? Seriously, I'm asking. I can think of dozens of times I saw reminders in the bulletin about Catholic wedding masses having to be held indoors. I'm sorry, I just don't buy this 'I'm super devout but I didn't know' line.

I've often wondering how devote Catholics don't know this either?

In defense to her, I don't think every parish does a great job in publishing this fact. The current bulletin from my parish is in the recycling bin and after looking up posted ones on their website, marriage prep isn't even always mentioned. From what I remember reading, the small note in the bulletin only mentions something requesting that any couple wishing to marry needs appropriate time to do so - and they usually request approx. 1 year. Once I began to read up on Catechism I learned about this but I can't remember being told about it either. That said, booking the ceremony was what we did first since we knew that we needed to receive the Sacrament.

This is one area in which I think my parish excels. This, along with details for every other sacrament, is a weekly, standard page in our bulletin. I particularly appreciate the way Father addresses convalidation.

Sacrament of Marriage 

At St. Francis de Sales, we ask that couples wishing to be married in our Church make arrangements at least six months in advance. No plans should be finalized until the pastor has been consulted. For more information, please visit www.foryourmarriage.org, a new website launched by the USCCB with resources and information for engaged and married couples. To inquire about celebrating your marriage at St. Francis de Sales, please call the Ministry Center.

There are many Catholic couples who attend Mass and are good, faith-filled people but whose marriages are not fully recognized by the Catholic Church. These are couples who were married outside of the Church by a civic official or a minister from another religious tradition. For many of these couples, convalidation, or blessing by a priest, is a very simple process. For other couples, the process is a little more complicated. In cases where one or both spouses have been married before and the first spouse is still alive, a declaration of nullity, or annulment, is required. In either case, the first step is to call Father David Ryan. And in both cases, the end result is peace of heart, oneness with the Church and God's special blessing upon the marriage. Father Ryan can be reached

Cookie Pusher · February 2014

Seriously, I don't get not talking to the priest BEFORE booking anything if your faith is that important to you. That just seems backwards. Don't you plan the most important thing first?

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

banana468 said:

lyndausvi said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

Nice job on quoting, @banana468! Also, how do Catholic brides not know this? Seriously, I'm asking. I can think of dozens of times I saw reminders in the bulletin about Catholic wedding masses having to be held indoors. I'm sorry, I just don't buy this 'I'm super devout but I didn't know' line.

I've often wondering how devote Catholics don't know this either?

In defense to her, I don't think every parish does a great job in publishing this fact. The current bulletin from my parish is in the recycling bin and after looking up posted ones on their website, marriage prep isn't even always mentioned. From what I remember reading, the small note in the bulletin only mentions something requesting that any couple wishing to marry needs appropriate time to do so - and they usually request approx. 1 year. Once I began to read up on Catechism I learned about this but I can't remember being told about it either. That said, booking the ceremony was what we did first since we knew that we needed to receive the Sacrament.

A bazillion times this! Aside from knowing it (maybe my parishes have always just been pre-emptive in publishing it? I dunno), I agree with @lyndausvi that, hello, all your OTHER sacraments were performed in a church, so obvs your wedding would be, too.

And even if you didn't know (and I call bullshit on her being as devout as she claims), if you WERE devout you would, as you did, @banana468, CONTACT THE PRIEST FIRST. We did. I mean, even before we talked about anything other than wanting to have a fall wedding and a full Catholic Mass, we talked to our priest about could our wedding be on a Sunday, could he perform it, etc.

At the very least, EVERY bulletin I've ever seen mentions, 'If you're going to get married, contact the parish office at least X months in advance and before you do anything else.'

But between this and @JCbride2014's question from earlier, I think I'm going to recommend at the next parish council meeting that we put a FAQ section about weddings on our website, so that it's out there more publicly.

lovesclimbing · February 2014

Do Catholics ever have short engagements? I noticed that one of you said you should give the priest/parish a year notice, and someone else said at least six months. What if you need to have a shorter engagement for some reason.

In my friends and family, short engagements of less than a year are the norm. Mine was about seven months. My little sister's was six. We would be hard pressed to meet those requirements if we were Catholic.

What do the priests do if someone really have to have a short engagement for some reason?

My pastor requires everyone to do pre-marital counseling, and the church we were married (my grandparent's) required that everyone who was married by their pastor go through pre-marital counseling. So unless you had a month or shorter engagement,it wouldn't be hard to do that.

lyndausvi · February 2014

I've had some cousins get married in the Catholic church only being engaged a few months. All of them were pregnant at the time and 20-30 something years ago. Not sure if it was the pregnancies or rules of changed?

FiancB · February 2014

I was raised Catholic, went to church every Sunday and even Catholic school through the 8th grade and I didn't know this until relatively late in life, though certainly before getting married. Maybe I just didn't pay attention though. There were actually quite a few details of Catholicism that didn't dawn on me while I was particularly Catholic.

My parents are weird though. They go to church each Sunday and day of obligation, and thump on the bible some, and that's about it. My sister's much more well versed on the sacraments and does the rosary groups and all that stuff.

My sister had a pretty short engagement I think. Like 6 months?

OP, while I also always dreamed of getting married outside, I don't have a strict faith to worry about and if I did, that would take precedence. My sis got married in a gorgeous church (the one at Gonzaga where they met, if I remember right) and then had their reception in a really beautiful garden at a Victorian B&B so she still got to be outside for a good chunk of it. I think that's about the closest you can come to a compromise.

banana468 · February 2014

@lovesclimbing, aside from friends who were married in 6 weeks after they found out she was expecting (they still had a Nuptial Mass and lovely reception), the shortest engagements I personally remember are 5-6 months.

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

@lovesclimbing -- you can definitely have short engagements (ours was 10 months) and get married Catholic.

The basic requirements are easy if neither of you has been married before. You can do all your pre-Cana reqs in one weekend if you need/want/have to.

The Church recommends different amounts of time based on the parish -- my parents' parish only asks for six months' notice. DH's and my parish needs nine months because we're bigger, with a younger congregation, so there are more weddings (and thus less availability of the church and/or priest).

Also, depending on when you get engaged, you're going to be barred from certain days/weeks/months you can get married because of the Liturgical calendar. (Ex.: Lent starts 5 March and most parishes won't allow weddings except for under extreme circumstances during Lent).

I've had friends who've planned full Catholic Mass weddings in 3-4 months. It's totally do-able, but they've also had to be really flexible on things because a window that small means there's not a lot of room for waiting on the perfect venue or wanting specific flowers or whatever.

MobKaz · February 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

@lovesclimbing -- you can definitely have short engagements (ours was 10 months) and get married Catholic. The basic requirements are easy if neither of you has been married before. You can do all your pre-Cana reqs in one weekend if you need/want/have to. The Church recommends different amounts of time based on the parish -- my parents' parish only asks for six months' notice. DH's and my parish needs nine months because we're bigger, with a younger congregation, so there are more weddings (and thus less availability of the church and/or priest). Also, depending on when you get engaged, you're going to be barred from certain days/weeks/months you can get married because of the Liturgical calendar. (Ex.: Lent starts 5 March and most parishes won't allow weddings except for under extreme circumstances during Lent). I've had friends who've planned full Catholic Mass weddings in 3-4 months. It's totally do-able, but they've also had to be really flexible on things because a window that small means there's not a lot of room for waiting on the perfect venue or wanting specific flowers or whatever.

The one timing issue that an engaged couple don't have complete control over is obtaining your sacramental certifications. The Catholic partner(s) must obtain their record of sacraments, and this often involves contacting childhood parishes. But with so many parishes having their own websites, even this portion can be expedited to a certain extent.

**I include this more for the "lurkers" and curious, HGF. I realize you are aware of this variable.

faeriedust101 · February 2014

You need to find the balance. If your dream is to get married outside then you need to get married outside and you want your marriage recognized by the church later you will need to get a convalidation. From what I found online you should not take the eucharist until you go through with convalidation. I guess how important is it for you to have the church immediately recognize your marriage. You could alway go through convalidation the next day, but I would talk with your priest about that.

APDSS22 · February 2014

mobkaz said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

@lovesclimbing -- you can definitely have short engagements (ours was 10 months) and get married Catholic. The basic requirements are easy if neither of you has been married before. You can do all your pre-Cana reqs in one weekend if you need/want/have to. The Church recommends different amounts of time based on the parish -- my parents' parish only asks for six months' notice. DH's and my parish needs nine months because we're bigger, with a younger congregation, so there are more weddings (and thus less availability of the church and/or priest). Also, depending on when you get engaged, you're going to be barred from certain days/weeks/months you can get married because of the Liturgical calendar. (Ex.: Lent starts 5 March and most parishes won't allow weddings except for under extreme circumstances during Lent). I've had friends who've planned full Catholic Mass weddings in 3-4 months. It's totally do-able, but they've also had to be really flexible on things because a window that small means there's not a lot of room for waiting on the perfect venue or wanting specific flowers or whatever.

The one timing issue that an engaged couple don't have complete control over is obtaining your sacramental certifications. The Catholic partner(s) must obtain their record of sacraments, and this often involves contacting childhood parishes. But with so many parishes having their own websites, even this portion can be expedited to a certain extent.

**I include this more for the "lurkers" and curious, HGF. I realize you are aware of this variable.

I got both of our sacramental certifications faxed to the church we married in with 2 phone calls...took less than 30 minutes total. Took less than a week for the certifications to fax all the way through to our church. Ironically, the one that took longer was my H's which was from a church across town from the church we were getting married in. Mine was from across the state and came through in less than 24 hours but my church of record is smaller and so has less members to look up. Now if one or both of the couple getting married have been married before, there are certainly more possible snags to the process.

banana468 · February 2014

You need to find the balance. If your dream is to get married outside then you need to get married outside and you want your marriage recognized by the church later you will need to get a convalidation. From what I found online you should not take the eucharist until you go through with convalidation. I guess how important is it for you to have the church immediately recognize your marriage. You could alway go through convalidation the next day, but I would talk with your priest about that.

This can be very risky if you do this without your priest/parish approval. I think it's @Hisgirlfriday13 who mentioned that she knows of two couples that were denied convalidations when they purposely married outside the Church.

If you're a devout Catholic then you put the Sacrament ad the priority.

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

@banana468 -- good memory, as always! Yes, I have a good friend (raised Catholic, 12 years of Catholic boarding school), and a cousin, both of whom married non-Catholics, and the non-Catholic bride really wanted a specific venue (which is fine, no judging). The Catholic grooms went along with it, thinking, 'Oh, we'll just get a convalidation later down the road,' and when then went to the priest to get said convalidation, SURPRISE!, the priest denied them the convalidation.

In fairness to the priests (separate priests in separate dioceses in separate states), neither my cousin nor my friend darkens the door of a Catholic church except for the holidays or when nagged into it by their mothers, so it's certainly questionable (to me at least) whether they want a Catholic ceremony for themselves or to appease parental disapproval.

lovesclimbing · February 2014

Thanks for the info! @Hisgirlfriday13 @lyndausvi @banana468 @mobkaz

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

mobkaz said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

@lovesclimbing -- you can definitely have short engagements (ours was 10 months) and get married Catholic. The basic requirements are easy if neither of you has been married before. You can do all your pre-Cana reqs in one weekend if you need/want/have to. The Church recommends different amounts of time based on the parish -- my parents' parish only asks for six months' notice. DH's and my parish needs nine months because we're bigger, with a younger congregation, so there are more weddings (and thus less availability of the church and/or priest). Also, depending on when you get engaged, you're going to be barred from certain days/weeks/months you can get married because of the Liturgical calendar. (Ex.: Lent starts 5 March and most parishes won't allow weddings except for under extreme circumstances during Lent). I've had friends who've planned full Catholic Mass weddings in 3-4 months. It's totally do-able, but they've also had to be really flexible on things because a window that small means there's not a lot of room for waiting on the perfect venue or wanting specific flowers or whatever.

The one timing issue that an engaged couple don't have complete control over is obtaining your sacramental certifications. The Catholic partner(s) must obtain their record of sacraments, and this often involves contacting childhood parishes. But with so many parishes having their own websites, even this portion can be expedited to a certain extent.

**I include this more for the "lurkers" and curious, HGF. I realize you are aware of this variable.

This is a good point, @mobkaz, thanks for mentioning it! Because DH wasn't Catholic, we needed his baptismal record from his Protestant church in order for his RCIA to be completed. Because I had done all my other sacraments (baptism, first communion, confirmation) at the same parish AND it's the one my parents still attend, that took about two days for them to pull my record, make a copy, and put it in my dad's office (Dad is the DRE of the parish).

It took us WEEKS to track down DH's baptismal record from his Brethren in Christ Church.

faeriedust101 · February 2014

banana468 said:

You need to find the balance. If your dream is to get married outside then you need to get married outside and you want your marriage recognized by the church later you will need to get a convalidation. From what I found online you should not take the eucharist until you go through with convalidation. I guess how important is it for you to have the church immediately recognize your marriage. You could alway go through convalidation the next day, but I would talk with your priest about that.
This can be very risky if you do this without your priest/parish approval. I think it's @Hisgirlfriday13 who mentioned that she knows of two couples that were denied convalidations when they purposely married outside the Church. If you're a devout Catholic then you put the Sacrament ad the priority.

Good point about the church not agreeing to preform the ceremony. Ultimately she needs to talk to her parish priest to see if its an option. OP needs to figure out what her priorities are.

LDay2014 · February 2014

banana468 said:

@lovesclimbing, aside from friends who were married in 6 weeks after they found out she was expecting (they still had a Nuptial Mass and lovely reception), the shortest engagements I personally remember are 5-6 months.

I`m curious on this one. Did the priest know she was expecting?

How does that work in the catholic church when a couple is marrying quickly to avoid the 'controversy' of a child out of wedlock? If the priest knows that they've had premarital sex? Does that matter in the eyes of the church that the couple has not obeyed the laws of the church?

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

LDay2014 said:

banana468 said:

@lovesclimbing, aside from friends who were married in 6 weeks after they found out she was expecting (they still had a Nuptial Mass and lovely reception), the shortest engagements I personally remember are 5-6 months.

I`m curious on this one. Did the priest know she was expecting?
How does that work in the catholic church when a couple is marrying quickly to avoid the 'controversy' of a child out of wedlock? If the priest knows that they've had premarital sex? Does that matter in the eyes of the church that the couple has not obeyed the laws of the church?

I can't speak for @banana468's priest, but I know my priest would rejoice that they had chosen life (over an abortion, if they're worried about the stigma of an out-of-wedlock baby) and that they were choosing the sacrament of marriage rather than going on with things without it.

People sin. That's a basic fact of life. People sin all day long every day. Priest are used to it and familiar with it -- I'm sure the priest has heard lots of confessions from people who had pre-marital sex. My guess would be he made them go to Confession, refrain from any further sex before the wedding, and repent.

NO ONE has ever obeyed the rules of the Church perfectly (except Jesus). The thing about pre-marital sex is that its end result (pregnancy) is a lot more obvious than someone who eats meat on Fridays during Lent or doesn't tithe or doesn't do the corporal works of mercy.

Since the Church is about forgiveness, my guess would be the priest focused on forgiveness rather than condemnation.

banana468 · February 2014

LDay2014 said:

banana468 said:

@lovesclimbing, aside from friends who were married in 6 weeks after they found out she was expecting (they still had a Nuptial Mass and lovely reception), the shortest engagements I personally remember are 5-6 months.

I`m curious on this one. Did the priest know she was expecting?

How does that work in the catholic church when a couple is marrying quickly to avoid the 'controversy' of a child out of wedlock? If the priest knows that they've had premarital sex? Does that matter in the eyes of the church that the couple has not obeyed the laws of the church?

I think it was understood by the priest since they were pressed for time and planned the wedding across the country from where they were wed.

I didn't ask if the church put them through any extra questions or if they had other issues. This seems to vary based on the priest. I moved in with DH after he proposed and it was not an issue. I knew of other couples that lied to their priest and gave different addresses because they wouldn't be married if they were cohabiting.

NYCBruin · February 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

LDay2014 said:

banana468 said:

@lovesclimbing, aside from friends who were married in 6 weeks after they found out she was expecting (they still had a Nuptial Mass and lovely reception), the shortest engagements I personally remember are 5-6 months.

I`m curious on this one. Did the priest know she was expecting?
How does that work in the catholic church when a couple is marrying quickly to avoid the 'controversy' of a child out of wedlock? If the priest knows that they've had premarital sex? Does that matter in the eyes of the church that the couple has not obeyed the laws of the church?

I can't speak for @banana468's priest, but I know my priest would rejoice that they had chosen life (over an abortion, if they're worried about the stigma of an out-of-wedlock baby) and that they were choosing the sacrament of marriage rather than going on with things without it.

People sin. That's a basic fact of life. People sin all day long every day. Priest are used to it and familiar with it -- I'm sure the priest has heard lots of confessions from people who had pre-marital sex. My guess would be he made them go to Confession, refrain from any further sex before the wedding, and repent.

NO ONE has ever obeyed the rules of the Church perfectly (except Jesus). The thing about pre-marital sex is that its end result (pregnancy) is a lot more obvious than someone who eats meat on Fridays during Lent or doesn't tithe or doesn't do the corporal works of mercy.

Since the Church is about forgiveness, my guess would be the priest focused on forgiveness rather than condemnation.

All of this. I have heard of pregnant couples getting asked more questions, but not because the church was "angry" about them having premarital sex. Rather the priest wanted to make sure that they weren't only getting married because they were pregnant/pressure from their friends/family to get married because of the pregnancy.

LDay2014 · February 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

LDay2014 said:

banana468 said:

@lovesclimbing, aside from friends who were married in 6 weeks after they found out she was expecting (they still had a Nuptial Mass and lovely reception), the shortest engagements I personally remember are 5-6 months.

I`m curious on this one. Did the priest know she was expecting?
How does that work in the catholic church when a couple is marrying quickly to avoid the 'controversy' of a child out of wedlock? If the priest knows that they've had premarital sex? Does that matter in the eyes of the church that the couple has not obeyed the laws of the church?

I can't speak for @banana468's priest, but I know my priest would rejoice that they had chosen life (over an abortion, if they're worried about the stigma of an out-of-wedlock baby) and that they were choosing the sacrament of marriage rather than going on with things without it.

People sin. That's a basic fact of life. People sin all day long every day. Priest are used to it and familiar with it -- I'm sure the priest has heard lots of confessions from people who had pre-marital sex. My guess would be he made them go to Confession, refrain from any further sex before the wedding, and repent.

NO ONE has ever obeyed the rules of the Church perfectly (except Jesus). The thing about pre-marital sex is that its end result (pregnancy) is a lot more obvious than someone who eats meat on Fridays during Lent or doesn't tithe or doesn't do the corporal works of mercy.

Since the Church is about forgiveness, my guess would be the priest focused on forgiveness rather than condemnation.

Okay, I can see that being a good justification.

My next question, if the church is about forgiveness then why the big deal about them not getting married in the church? Wouldn't the choice to be married in the faith outweigh the location?

Again, I'm just asking because I'm curious...I don't mean to stir the pot. Just innocent question.

There are a lot of things I don't understand about organized religion and I'm always curious to see people's perspectives.

NYCBruin · February 2014

LDay2014 said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

LDay2014 said:

banana468 said:

@lovesclimbing, aside from friends who were married in 6 weeks after they found out she was expecting (they still had a Nuptial Mass and lovely reception), the shortest engagements I personally remember are 5-6 months.

I`m curious on this one. Did the priest know she was expecting?
How does that work in the catholic church when a couple is marrying quickly to avoid the 'controversy' of a child out of wedlock? If the priest knows that they've had premarital sex? Does that matter in the eyes of the church that the couple has not obeyed the laws of the church?

I can't speak for @banana468's priest, but I know my priest would rejoice that they had chosen life (over an abortion, if they're worried about the stigma of an out-of-wedlock baby) and that they were choosing the sacrament of marriage rather than going on with things without it.

People sin. That's a basic fact of life. People sin all day long every day. Priest are used to it and familiar with it -- I'm sure the priest has heard lots of confessions from people who had pre-marital sex. My guess would be he made them go to Confession, refrain from any further sex before the wedding, and repent.

NO ONE has ever obeyed the rules of the Church perfectly (except Jesus). The thing about pre-marital sex is that its end result (pregnancy) is a lot more obvious than someone who eats meat on Fridays during Lent or doesn't tithe or doesn't do the corporal works of mercy.

Since the Church is about forgiveness, my guess would be the priest focused on forgiveness rather than condemnation.

Okay, I can see that being a good justification.
My next question, if the church is about forgiveness then why the big deal about them not getting married in the church? Wouldn't the choice to be married in the faith outweigh the location?
Again, I'm just asking because I'm curious...I don't mean to stir the pot. Just innocent question.

There are a lot of things I don't understand about organized religion and I'm always curious to see people's perspectives.

Others can correct me, but my understanding is that you can't really be forgiven if you aren't actually sorry in the first place. To use a different example, you can't rob a jewelry store or murder someone intentionally with the plan of going to confession after to receive forgiveness. If you've done the act with the intention of being forgiven after, you can't actually be forgiven because you aren't sorry.

It's not that the church can't forgive marrying outside of the church, but more that forgiveness doesn't seem appropriate because the couple seeking to have their marriage convalidated isn't actually sorry they married outside of the church. They had no intention to follow the rules and they broke the rules with the intention of taking advantage of the church's forgiveness. Convalidations are typically reserved for couples who had fallen away from the faith when they married and want to come back to the church. It's not a way for people to "get around" church policy. It's hard to believe you're sorry about your sin if you planned your sin and your remedy for the sin at the same time.

APDSS22 · February 2014

LDay2014 said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

LDay2014 said:

banana468 said:

@lovesclimbing, aside from friends who were married in 6 weeks after they found out she was expecting (they still had a Nuptial Mass and lovely reception), the shortest engagements I personally remember are 5-6 months.

I`m curious on this one. Did the priest know she was expecting?
How does that work in the catholic church when a couple is marrying quickly to avoid the 'controversy' of a child out of wedlock? If the priest knows that they've had premarital sex? Does that matter in the eyes of the church that the couple has not obeyed the laws of the church?

I can't speak for @banana468's priest, but I know my priest would rejoice that they had chosen life (over an abortion, if they're worried about the stigma of an out-of-wedlock baby) and that they were choosing the sacrament of marriage rather than going on with things without it.

People sin. That's a basic fact of life. People sin all day long every day. Priest are used to it and familiar with it -- I'm sure the priest has heard lots of confessions from people who had pre-marital sex. My guess would be he made them go to Confession, refrain from any further sex before the wedding, and repent.

NO ONE has ever obeyed the rules of the Church perfectly (except Jesus). The thing about pre-marital sex is that its end result (pregnancy) is a lot more obvious than someone who eats meat on Fridays during Lent or doesn't tithe or doesn't do the corporal works of mercy.

Since the Church is about forgiveness, my guess would be the priest focused on forgiveness rather than condemnation.

Okay, I can see that being a good justification.
My next question, if the church is about forgiveness then why the big deal about them not getting married in the church? Wouldn't the choice to be married in the faith outweigh the location?
Again, I'm just asking because I'm curious...I don't mean to stir the pot. Just innocent question.

There are a lot of things I don't understand about organized religion and I'm always curious to see people's perspectives.

*As I understand it:*

The church is sacred ground, which means it is a place acceptable for the Sacrament of Marriage to occur. Since other ground like a park is not so blessed, the Sacrament cannot take place there. If the couple truly wants to experience marriage as a sacrament in the Catholic Church, they should plan for a church wedding. The fact that most priests will offer a convalidation to couples sincerely wishing to renew/reconnect with their faith that got married outside of the Church shows the forgiveness of the Church.

LDay2014 · February 2014

Thanks Ladies! I appreciate the clarification.

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

LDay2014 said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

LDay2014 said:

banana468 said:

@lovesclimbing, aside from friends who were married in 6 weeks after they found out she was expecting (they still had a Nuptial Mass and lovely reception), the shortest engagements I personally remember are 5-6 months.

I`m curious on this one. Did the priest know she was expecting?
How does that work in the catholic church when a couple is marrying quickly to avoid the 'controversy' of a child out of wedlock? If the priest knows that they've had premarital sex? Does that matter in the eyes of the church that the couple has not obeyed the laws of the church?

I can't speak for @banana468's priest, but I know my priest would rejoice that they had chosen life (over an abortion, if they're worried about the stigma of an out-of-wedlock baby) and that they were choosing the sacrament of marriage rather than going on with things without it.

People sin. That's a basic fact of life. People sin all day long every day. Priest are used to it and familiar with it -- I'm sure the priest has heard lots of confessions from people who had pre-marital sex. My guess would be he made them go to Confession, refrain from any further sex before the wedding, and repent.

NO ONE has ever obeyed the rules of the Church perfectly (except Jesus). The thing about pre-marital sex is that its end result (pregnancy) is a lot more obvious than someone who eats meat on Fridays during Lent or doesn't tithe or doesn't do the corporal works of mercy.

Since the Church is about forgiveness, my guess would be the priest focused on forgiveness rather than condemnation.

Okay, I can see that being a good justification.
My next question, if the church is about forgiveness then why the big deal about them not getting married in the church? Wouldn't the choice to be married in the faith outweigh the location?
Again, I'm just asking because I'm curious...I don't mean to stir the pot. Just innocent question.

There are a lot of things I don't understand about organized religion and I'm always curious to see people's perspectives.

You're conflating two different things here. Catholics cannot have Mass -- the Liturgy of the Word, the Liturgy of the Eucharist -- celebrated outside of a physical church building. You just can't -- at least not without lots of jumping through hoops and special permissions and dispensations and whatnot.

So the Church will question very, very closely anyone who chooses to have a wedding at a pretty, non-Catholic-church location over having it in the church. There need to be compelling reasons for you not to have gotten married in the Church's eyes through the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony in a church.

Asking, 'wouldn't the choice to be married in the faith outweigh the location?' -- yes, it should, which is why devout Catholics should choose to get married in the Church in a church, not at a pretty barn or park or whatever -- the aethetics of the background should be less important than the Sacrament and the Liturgy.

In the case of my friend and cousin, they didn't have compelling reasons; they just didn't want to do the legwork required for the Church and their (non-Catholic) brides weren't interested in giving up their location and aesthetics for the requirements of a faith their grooms didn't actually practice.

On the flip side, my parents were married in the Presbyterian church and later had their marriage convalidated by the Roman Catholic Church.

My mother had been married (in a Protestant church) prior to marrying my dad. She had to have that marriage annulled in order to marry my dad.

My parents did pre-Cana, they filed all their paperwork, and because my mother's ex-husband had been married before my mom (also in a church), in the eyes of the Roman Catholic church, his marriage to her was adulterous, making my mother's desire for an annulment basically an automatic approval..

But it still took time, and my parents had booked things, on the advice of their priest, and didn't want to undo all their plans, so they went ahead and got married in my mom's church, and then had their marriage convalidated when they came back from their honeymoon.

CMGragain · February 2014

The Catholic Church recognizes seven sacraments. Marriage is one of these. A sacrament of marriage can only be performed in the Catholic church. You can get married anywhere, but it is not a sacramental marriage unless it is held in the Catholic church. You are not really married as a Catholic unless you have been given the sacrament of marriage. The church does not recognize courthouse ceremonies or marriages from other denominations.
Protestant churches usually recognize only three sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation, and Communion. They recognize all legal marriages.
This issue is what split England from the rest of western Europe, and established the Church of England. (Episcopal Church in the USA) The Catholic Church refused to recognize the divorce and re-marriage of King Henry VIII of England, so he broke off from the church and declared himself the head of the new Church of England. Wars have been fought over this issue. Kings have been deposed and executed over this. (Mary, Queen of Scots, Charles I, and James II) Even today, a Catholic cannot be king or queen of England, and if a member of the royal family marries a Catholic, they take themselves and their descendants out of the line of succession to the throne.

LDay2014 · February 2014

@HisGirlFriday I need a flow chart...lol, that seemed all really complicated!

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

LDay2014 said:

@HisGirlFriday I need a flow chart...lol, that seemed all really complicated!

Yeah, it's complicated. But what is boils down to is, if you want the Sacrament, you have to get married in a physical Catholic church, because the Catholic church doesn't allow any sacraments to be performed outside the four walls of a church unless under extreme duress (last rites at a car crash, for example).

If you don't do that, you're out of communion with the church. In order to get back in communion, you have to get a convalidation, and those are hard to get.

lyndausvi · February 2014

While I'm not a practicing Catholic I really appreciate and respect @HisGirlFriday13's advice on the matter.

happywiggle · February 2014

Wow. I had no idea this even existed. Thank you ladies for furthering my understanding of the Catholic faith!

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