Update Giving back the ring

PrettyGirlLost · February 2014

ChemFanatic25 said:

It's really hard to tell myself that this is okay. That what I am doing is not a selfish act. He is a really good person, I'm just pretty sure, I'm not the right person for him.

Also, I know this sounds terrible but coming to this realization really makes me not want to try anymore. I know of someone who cheated and while her now ex (a pretty good friend) was willing to forgive and work through things, she didn't want to. I thought she was a terrible person because he was left broken and completely destroyed but I feel like I am falling into that same mold. I don't want to try any more. We have been differing on a lot of things lately, especially in the past six months, probably even around the time we got engaged or even before. It has become more and more work and while I understand that all relationships take work I don't think it is supposed to be this stressful and emotionally draining.

You have to be selfish with huge decisions like this that will affect your life, happiness, career, etc. Being selfish is not always a bad thing.

However, I don't see this as a selfish act because he wants to have children and you are thinking that you do not. So you really are thinking of his, and your, best interest in the long run by breaking the engagement at this time.

By calling it off now, it doesn't necessarily mean that you two will become irreconcilable. You may ultimately end up back together. Who knows what can happen.

doeydo · February 2014

If it were me, I would give the ring back but not give him any money (I have never even heard of that).

ChemFanatic25 · February 2014

doeydo said:

If it were me, I would give the ring back but not give him any money (I have never even heard of that).

Yeah, that's why I was asking because I didn't know and wasn't completely sure of the proper etiquette.

Cookie Pusher · February 2014

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's a sucky situation, and I hope things turn out well.

From your previous posts, it seemed like your FI was the one who wanted children by a certain point but you were hesitant to commit to the timeframe he wanted. Have things changed? Either way, both parties in a marriage need to be on the same page about having kids or not. It's better that you've figured this out before the wedding than after.

JennyColada · February 2014

Well, put yourself in his shoes.

I mean, if it were me, I could understand giving the ring back (but I'd want her to keep the ring, personally). But giving money, that's just...I don't know. It would make me uncomfortable. I don't need your money, I want YOU, I want your love, I want our relationship. Giving me cash doesn't solve anything.

I think offering to pay for his share of the deposits is fine, but whether or not he takes you up on it is just up to him. But I certainly don't think that you need to reimburse him for the ring. I think that it's understood that if a relationship breaks up that you take a bit of a financial loss, and just because you're the one breaking it off doesn't mean that it's your responsibility to be financially responsible for his choices.

I understand that you feel bad and want to try to make things as easy for him as possible, but I think just the ring and offering for his deposit shares is plenty. Don't make this harder on yourself financially as well as emotionally.

sofakingmad · February 2014

As others have already covered, you might have to give the ring back by law. But you can look into it.

Also, I actually think what you are doing is the opposite of selfish. You are looking out for your interests as well as his. I was in the exact same situation, but I was your FI. I wanted kids and it was non-negotiable for me. My H wasn't sure about kids and knew that at one time he didn't want them, but told me that he did. Our 3rd wedding anniversary is next week and we'll be divorced by March 5th. I don't think it's fair to either one of us to have to compromise on such an important decision and therefore I decided to end the marriage.

It was tough, but it's a big thing. You are doing the right thing by both of you. You are actually being very mature in all of this.

He might be upset with you in the beginning, but with some counseling I think you will both realize it might be the best decision.

mimiphin · February 2014

In my mind, If I break the engagement off then I give the ring back. If he breaks it off the ring is my consolation prize.

sofakingmad · February 2014

I'm so very sorry that you are going through this right now. Seriously. My heart goes out to you.

ETA: I'm glad that you are being honest with yourself and with your FI about all of this. I wish that my H could have been more honest about what he wanted.

ChemFanatic25 · February 2014

Cookie Pusher said:

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's a sucky situation, and I hope things turn out well.
From your previous posts, it seemed like your FI was the one who wanted children by a certain point but you were hesitant to commit to the timeframe he wanted. Have things changed? Either way, both parties in a marriage need to be on the same page about having kids or not. It's better that you've figured this out before the wedding than after.

No, nothing has changed. If anything it has freaked me out even more. Because I feel he would pressure me into having children and I don't want that to happen.

mbross3 · February 2014

I am so sorry you're going through this. I wish you the best. I know a couple people have commented on this, but I just wanted to correct a PP that said most states do not require you do return the ring. There are only 2 states that do not require you to return an engagement ring (do you live in Montana by any chance-then it's yours if you want it). PP are correct in stating that gifts do not need to be returned, however in 48 states, engagement rings do not fall under the standard gift category (gifts generally require no consideration). Engagement rings are inherently conditional gifts, meaning that unless there is a wedding, the gift must be returned. These things are generally not brought to court, as they are usually settled between the parties and that's why there's differing information.

Return the ring, but you don't owe him anything more. Both of you put down deposits together, and that is a risk you both took.

Best of luck to you.

antoto · February 2014

mbross3 said:

I am so sorry you're going through this. I wish you the best. I know a couple people have commented on this, but I just wanted to correct a PP that said most states do not require you do return the ring. There are only 2 states that do not require you to return an engagement ring (do you live in Montana by any chance-then it's yours if you want it). PP are correct in stating that gifts do not need to be returned, however in 48 states, engagement rings do not fall under the standard gift category (gifts generally require no consideration). Engagement rings are inherently conditional gifts, meaning that unless there is a wedding, the gift must be returned. These things are generally not brought to court, as they are usually settled between the parties and that's why there's differing information.

Return the ring, but you don't owe him anything more. Both of you put down deposits together, and that is a risk you both took.

Best of luck to you.

I agree with this. A lot of other people are saying you should owe him money that you both put down for the wedding - but I don't personally agree.

ChemFanatic25 · February 2014

antoto said:

mbross3 said:

I am so sorry you're going through this. I wish you the best. I know a couple people have commented on this, but I just wanted to correct a PP that said most states do not require you do return the ring. There are only 2 states that do not require you to return an engagement ring (do you live in Montana by any chance-then it's yours if you want it). PP are correct in stating that gifts do not need to be returned, however in 48 states, engagement rings do not fall under the standard gift category (gifts generally require no consideration). Engagement rings are inherently conditional gifts, meaning that unless there is a wedding, the gift must be returned. These things are generally not brought to court, as they are usually settled between the parties and that's why there's differing information.

Return the ring, but you don't owe him anything more. Both of you put down deposits together, and that is a risk you both took.

Best of luck to you.

I agree with this. A lot of other people are saying you should owe him money that you both put down for the wedding - but I don't personally agree.

Why is that?

[Deleted User] · February 2014

I agree with PP that you should offer the ring back to him to do with as he pleases, but you don't owe him money for the ring beyond that. It would be nice to reimburse him his portion of the deposits that you will be out. He put in his half with the intentions of there being a wedding, and the fact it's being cancelled is out of his control. I do think talking to your counselor is a great idea and that if he doesn't want kids ever & is 100% set on that and you aren't sure, that's a major issue. You shouldn't give up the possibility of having kids if you aren't on the same mind set that he is. This is an issue that can cause major problems in a relationship. Good luck!!

pinkshorts27 · February 2014

ChemFanatic25 said:

antoto said:

mbross3 said:

I am so sorry you're going through this. I wish you the best. I know a couple people have commented on this, but I just wanted to correct a PP that said most states do not require you do return the ring. There are only 2 states that do not require you to return an engagement ring (do you live in Montana by any chance-then it's yours if you want it). PP are correct in stating that gifts do not need to be returned, however in 48 states, engagement rings do not fall under the standard gift category (gifts generally require no consideration). Engagement rings are inherently conditional gifts, meaning that unless there is a wedding, the gift must be returned. These things are generally not brought to court, as they are usually settled between the parties and that's why there's differing information.

Return the ring, but you don't owe him anything more. Both of you put down deposits together, and that is a risk you both took.

Best of luck to you.

I agree with this. A lot of other people are saying you should owe him money that you both put down for the wedding - but I don't personally agree.

Why is that?

Because when you set down deposits you both decided to take that risk. You went into the relationship both accepting the risk of failure. Just because you feel that you aren't compatible anymore doesn't mean you owe him anything aside from honesty. You didn't intentionally mislead him, so give him back the ring and don't worry about the rest.

sofakingmad · February 2014

Personally, I think you should feel him out once you tell him what is happening.

He might be sad, mad, upset, confused, whatever. He might even be a bit vindictive in the beginning. I think the best is to not fight over money or the ring. You can offer to give the ring back and reimburse him for half of what was already paid out.

Just remember that you are preparing yourself for this. He might be blindsided.

JCbride2015 · February 2014

I am late to this thread-- but Chem, I'm so sorry. I read your post on CC about kids and I think you are doing the un-selfish, mature and responsible thing. If Fi wants kids, he needs to be with somebody who wants them too. It is hard right now, but I think you're really doing right by him.

The law on e-rings seems irrelevant, as you wish to give him back the ring. I think that's the right thing to do. You definitely do not need to give him the ring AND the monetary value of the ring. That's excessive.

As for deposits, I guess it's something you talk to Fi about. I don't really think you HAVE to give him anything. If you got divorced three years from now, would you be offering to pay him back half of the wedding expenses? Of course not. You both put these deposits down, assuming the risk that the wedding might not happen for one reason or another. You can never retroactively pay him back ALL of the money he might have spent on your relationship, nor would that be the right thing to do. I think the important thing is to make a clean break from here for the future. You can't itemize everything tit for tat from the past.

If you feel it would be a good gesture to pay him back for the deposits, and you have the money, just consider whether this would hurt his feelings further. If you think it would help, there's nothing wrong with doing it. But I don't think you have an obligation.

CMGragain · February 2014

The engagement ring is a pledge of your mutual promise to marry. If you change those plans, you should give him the engagement ring. If you did marry, and then divorce, the ring is yours to keep. I have three of my late mother's engagement rings. (Long story.)

emmyg65 · February 2014

FWIW, I didn't say she owes him money. I just think it's the nice thing to do, and it may make the whole process easier just because it avoids any possible fighting about money. But she should definitely return the ring.

Kauris · February 2014

I can't add anything else, because PP have it pretty well covered, but you are in my thoughts and sending you hugs. I hope you find peace with whatever decision you come to. And you are not a bad person!

ChemFanatic25 · February 2014

I'm returning the ring. I feel uncomfortable keeping it.

vt&dt · February 2014

OP, I called off an engagement less than 3 weeks out from the scheduled date. In Iowa, regardless of the reason why, the ring is considered a conditional gift and must be returned "in a timely manner".

I think giving back the ring and what he paid towards deposits is the right way to go. He can either keep the ring (maybe reset the stone in the future) or try to sell - he may get close to what he paid for by selling to an individual.

If you live together, that adds a layer of difficulty. If either of you has someone to stay with for a few days while you figure that out, that would probably help.

I lived with my parents for 6 months after it was called off. It helped me save to get back on my own feet, and having their support around all the time was really helpful. My mom gave me this book and it was extremely helpful to read stories of other real people who called off their weddings for various reasons, and a couple of years later were just fine.

Viczaesar · February 2014

I think PPs have covered the advice part well, but I just wanted to say best of luck to you and that I'm impressed by the way you're handling this.

ChemFanatic25 · February 2014

Viczaesar said:

I think PPs have covered the advice part well, but I just wanted to say best of luck to you and that I'm impressed by the way you're handling this.

Hahaha, you should have seen me this morning! I almost had a panic attack because I kept thinking about it. Talking to everyone has really calmed me down and hopefully I can do this properly without running away.

[Deleted User] · February 2014

DItto PPs- I don't really have a lot to add other than just best wishes, prayers, hugs, and puppies and all other good things I can send your way. You really do seem to be handling this very admirably and with maturity.

PrincessLeia5 · February 2014

I figure that if you end the relationship, you should return the ring. But he doesn't get the ring + the cost of the ring. It's one or the other. Also, it's not very common, but I have seen at least one jewelry store that allows returns, regardless of resizing or timeframe. I helped my brother pick out his e-ring and that was one of their selling points, that the ring can be returned, even 10 years later, for full refund, no questions asked... it may have been store credit, not cash refund, though (it's been many years since then and credit would make more sense from business standpoint). So, you/he may want to check with the jewelry store to see their return policy.

I think the wedding costs that have already been spent is really up to you. It may not be a bad idea to offer to pay back the $600, but not required. If it were me, I'd probably pay it if I were able to though.

I'm sorry that you are having to go through this. But, it's better now than going through a divorce. And often, if you are having major doubts and the relationship isn't right, he may be feeling the same way too. It may not be as horrible as you anticipate. I had to call off an engagement once, just because I realized we wanted different things in the long run, just like you. He was angry at first, but a week later, after he cooled down, we sat and talked and he agreed that he felt the same way I did and calling off the engagement was the best thing for both of us. We both knew that, although we really cared about each other, one or both of us would be held back if we stayed in the relationship. And we actually stayed friends for quite a while after that... then life got in the way and we slowly drifted apart, but still on good terms. So, I know the prospect is horrible and you feel so bad, but it's better to end it now if its not right then to lose years to a wrong relationship. And it may not be as bad as you expect.

hikebikebemerry · February 2014

I just want to emphasize what PPs said. What you are doing is not selfish, at all. It is incredibly difficult, because you both deserve to be in fulfilling relationships. It's not fair to hurt yourself to avoid hurting someone else.

Big hugs through the internet!

HisGirlFriday13 · February 2014

Ditto all PPs. Under strict etiquette rules (not legal ones), whomever broke off the engagement has to give up the ring -- you, in this case, but him if he had called it off.

I also ditto PPs on not paying back half the deposits -- that was a joint risk that you two took together.

I am so, so, so sorry for you. I think you are doing the noble, honourable, decent, unselfish thing. You're putting his long-term happiness (wanting kids and wanting them SOON) ahead of your needs and wants. Right now, he's probably going to be hurt and upset, but in the long run, he will thank you.

MyNameIsNot · February 2014

blueeyes90 said:

ChemFanatic25 said:

antoto said:

mbross3 said:

I am so sorry you're going through this. I wish you the best. I know a couple people have commented on this, but I just wanted to correct a PP that said most states do not require you do return the ring. There are only 2 states that do not require you to return an engagement ring (do you live in Montana by any chance-then it's yours if you want it). PP are correct in stating that gifts do not need to be returned, however in 48 states, engagement rings do not fall under the standard gift category (gifts generally require no consideration). Engagement rings are inherently conditional gifts, meaning that unless there is a wedding, the gift must be returned. These things are generally not brought to court, as they are usually settled between the parties and that's why there's differing information.

Return the ring, but you don't owe him anything more. Both of you put down deposits together, and that is a risk you both took.

Best of luck to you.

I agree with this. A lot of other people are saying you should owe him money that you both put down for the wedding - but I don't personally agree.

Why is that?

Because when you set down deposits you both decided to take that risk. You went into the relationship both accepting the risk of failure. Just because you feel that you aren't compatible anymore doesn't mean you owe him anything aside from honesty. You didn't intentionally mislead him, so give him back the ring and don't worry about the rest.

This. You owe him the ring back, but you don't have to reimburse him for anything else. If your parents or anyone spent any money, you should reimburse them. That said, I'd probably give him the $600 for his half of the deposit if he bitched about it, just to take the high road.

Chem, I'm so sorry you are going through this. This is heart breaking, and I hope the counseling aspect is still on the table (individually if not joint). I hope that you come to see that you are saving the two of you years of pain and heart ache, even if it sucks right now.

My advice? Put the ring/money thing at the back of your mind. With everything that comes along with calling off an engagement, the money aspect is the least of your concerns. It's an easy place to focus your energy because it is defined and concrete, but dealing with the emotional aspects and logistics of breaking up with a live in partner are going to be much more difficult. Take some time to think about how you want to deal with those things. Even though you were roommate before getting together, roommates after the fact may not be a good idea.

huskypuppy14 · February 2014

If you're calling off the wedding, I think you should pay the 600 and give back the engagement ring. No need to pay the cost of the ring as well, that is excessive.

PP are saying that you don't have to give 1/2 the deposit back because you both took risk. I disagree with that. Now, I think the amount of money you have put in is minimal, so it's not a huge deal- but may not be minimal for some. However, I (myself and mostly my parents) have paid 12,000 dollars so far in deposits for my wedding. The majority of that is the venue deposit which we've paid about 1/2 the cost so far (2 deposits required by the venue). This does not include my wedding dress. I'd be beyond pissed if my FI broke off our engagement and my parents are out all that money.

jessiray · February 2014

I agree with what PPs have said, and I just wanted to say that I'm sorry that you're going though this! My ex was actually looking at rings when I broke it off with him... And part of the reason I broke up with him was because I knew he wanted kids right away and I wasn't sure. I was reading your post over on CC, and everything you said about kids was completely in line with how I feel. My ex was upset, and I also lost a lot of friends, but I'm so much happier now. I would never have been happy if I would have stayed with him. Good luck! *Hugs*

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