Traditional Brides?

SarahWins · March 2014

Any other traditional brides out there? I'm getting bashed left and right for being one, just kind of want to know that I'm not alone

pumpkinsandturkeys · March 2014

Define 'traditional.' What exactly are you being bashed for?

wandajune6 · March 2014

What does "traditional" mean? It means something different to everyone.

But I suspect I'm not what you would consider a traditional bride! I also wouldn't be shocked if many of the people here are not either.

SarahWins · March 2014

It started out with me thinking that ushers should be men, not women. Then it became that I think they should be in the wedding party at all. Now it's somehow become terrible for me to not consider signing our marriage license as the "real wedding", and terrible to do that before our destination wedding. (We are having a destination wedding in Mexico to make it easier for his family to come from Brazil. No visa cost compared to $600/person if we had it at home. Since the marriage won't be legally recognized in our state, we are getting the marriage license signed at the courthouse beforehand).

Just kind of want to know if there's anyone else out here that thinks the same way that I do.

SarahWins · March 2014

shrekspeare said:

She's getting bashed for having a PPD. And getting married for the tax purposes.

I'm not getting married for tax purposes. I'm signing a marriage license for them. Two completely different things.

KatWAG · March 2014

SarahWins said:

shrekspeare said:

She's getting bashed for having a PPD. And getting married for the tax purposes.
I'm not getting married for tax purposes. I'm signing a marriage license for them. Two completely different things.

Riiiiight. But I thought you dont want the government being involved in your wedding/PPD? Yet you are perfectly okay with signing a piece of paper so that the government can give you benefits.

wandajune6 · March 2014

That sounds like a PPD to me too.

JennyColada · March 2014

SarahWins said:

It started out with me thinking that ushers should be men, not women. Then it became that I think they should be in the wedding party at all. Now it's somehow become terrible for me to not consider signing our marriage license as the "real wedding", and terrible to do that before our destination wedding. (We are having a destination wedding in Mexico to make it easier for his family to come from Brazil. No visa cost compared to $600/person if we had it at home. Since the marriage won't be legally recognized in our state, we are getting the marriage license signed at the courthouse beforehand).

Just kind of want to know if there's anyone else out here that thinks the same way that I do.

A lot of this doesn't seem "traditional" at all.

KatWAG · March 2014

shrekspeare said:

SarahWins said:

Any other traditional brides out there? I'm getting bashed left and right for being one, just kind of want to know that I'm not alone
Also quoting. You're not being bashed for being a 'traditional' bride. You're getting bashed for insisting ushers be male, giving shitty jobs to your WP, being married for tax purposes, having a PPD, and essentially insulting any progress that the human race has made with your 'why change the way it's always been done' comment.

@shrekspeare I could kiss you right now

JennyColada · March 2014

SarahWins said:

shrekspeare said:

She's getting bashed for having a PPD. And getting married for the tax purposes.

I'm not getting married for tax purposes. I'm signing a marriage license for them. Two completely different things.

To gain any tax benefits (if eligable), you have to declare "married" on your taxes. Which means that you're married. Like…you had a marriage.

I'm confused with what part of this doesn't make sense to you?

afox007 · March 2014

Traditionally people get married at their wedding and don't have a reenactment later. So I would say the majority of us are traditional brides and you will be a wife playing dress up.

SarahWins · March 2014

shrekspeare said:

SarahWins said:

Any other traditional brides out there? I'm getting bashed left and right for being one, just kind of want to know that I'm not alone

Also quoting. You're not being bashed for being a 'traditional' bride. You're getting bashed for insisting ushers be male, giving shitty jobs to your WP, being married for tax purposes, having a PPD, and essentially insulting any progress that the human race has made with your 'why change the way it's always been done' comment.

I was only trying to get help with ideas. Did it occur to you that maybe we can't afford to have multiple people in the wedding party? We still want to honor our female friend. And yes, we think that ushers should be male, because of what it is. Or that we have to have a destination wedding for anyone in my fiancé's family to be able to afford to attend, and now have to deal with other difficulties, such as it not being legally recognized in our home state?

I'm not insulting any and all progress, but I disagree with progress for progress's sake. I am not a feminist, nor will I ever be. I like traditions. I like traditional weddings. Why is that wrong?

As far as my opinion on the marriage license, I'm libertarian. Rights are not given by the government, they are intrinsic to our humanity. I don't need the government to tell me I have the right to get married. That's why I don't consider signing the marriage license to be adequate. Not saying your opinion is wrong, just saying it's not mine. I'd just appreciate the same courtesy.

Senecaf · March 2014

Destination weddings are fairly non traditional.

RedJacks25 · March 2014

...how is any of what you're planning "traditional"?

SarahWins · March 2014

KatWAG said:

SarahWins said:

shrekspeare said:

She's getting bashed for having a PPD. And getting married for the tax purposes.
I'm not getting married for tax purposes. I'm signing a marriage license for them. Two completely different things.
Riiiiight. But I thought you dont want the government being involved in your wedding/PPD? Yet you are perfectly okay with signing a piece of paper so that the government can give you benefits.

Sometimes even if you're fighting to change a system you have to live in it while it exists.

SBmini · March 2014

I've seen a lot of people on this forum discuss the need to get legally married in the states when having a destination wedding in Mexico. One bride just last month was lamenting at how frustrating it was to actually try to get married legally in Mexico. It involved another trip, vaccinations and a bunch of other hoops to jump through for what takes standing in line for an hour or two in the states. I don't think that makes every Mexican destination wedding a PPD. It's just a technicality to ensure you are legally married.

That said, OP, a destination wedding in Mexico is hardly a traditional wedding.

JennyColada · March 2014

SarahWins said:

I'm libertarian. Rights are not given by the government, they are intrinsic to our humanity.

But…you're wrong. They ARE given by the government.

Whether you think they should or should not is totally beside the point.

SarahWins · March 2014

Senecaf said:

Destination weddings are fairly non traditional.

If we could have the wedding at home, we would. Unfortunately, that would mean his entire family, including his parents and brother, not being able to attend because of visa costs to travel from Brazil. The traditions are: ushers have to be male, and the wedding is when you are married NOT when you sign a piece of paper.

SarahWins · March 2014

SBmini said:

I've seen a lot of people on this forum discuss the need to get legally married in the states when having a destination wedding in Mexico. One bride just last month was lamenting at how frustrating it was to actually try to get married legally in Mexico. It involved another trip, vaccinations and a bunch of other hoops to jump through for what takes standing in line for an hour or two in the states. I don't think that makes every Mexican destination wedding a PPD. It's just a technicality to ensure you are legally married.

That said, OP, a destination wedding in Mexico is hardly a traditional wedding.

So in order for it to be traditional we would have to exclude his entire family? That sounds less traditional to me.

afox007 · March 2014

SarahWins said:

Senecaf said:

Destination weddings are fairly non traditional.

If we could have the wedding at home, we would. Unfortunately, that would mean his entire family, including his parents and brother, not being able to attend because of visa costs to travel from Brazil. The traditions are: ushers have to be male, and the wedding is when you are married NOT when you sign a piece of paper.

Once you sign that piece of paper you are married. So that is the wedding.

SBmini · March 2014

Here's the requirements for getting a marriage license in Mexico. Included in the requirements is a blood test and X-ray preformed in Mexico no earlier than 15 days before the wedding and four witnesses: http://www.mexperience.com/mexico-weddings/getting-married-in-mexico.php

This is why many people chose to get married legally in the states and symbolically in Mexico.

SarahWins · March 2014

Jennycolada said:

SarahWins said:

I'm libertarian. Rights are not given by the government, they are intrinsic to our humanity.
But…you're wrong. They ARE given by the government.

Whether you think they should or should not is totally beside the point.

So your right to life is something given to you by the government? As in, it's perfectly ok if they just take it away from you. Same with your marriage? If they decide to no longer legally recognize marriages are you just going to stop considering that you're married?

ZiggyZos · March 2014

SarahWins said:

shrekspeare said:

SarahWins said:

Any other traditional brides out there? I'm getting bashed left and right for being one, just kind of want to know that I'm not alone

Also quoting. You're not being bashed for being a 'traditional' bride. You're getting bashed for insisting ushers be male, giving shitty jobs to your WP, being married for tax purposes, having a PPD, and essentially insulting any progress that the human race has made with your 'why change the way it's always been done' comment.

I was only trying to get help with ideas. Did it occur to you that maybe we can't afford to have multiple people in the wedding party? We still want to honor our female friend. And yes, we think that ushers should be male, because of what it is. Or that we have to have a destination wedding for anyone in my fiancé's family to be able to afford to attend, and now have to deal with other difficulties, such as it not being legally recognized in our home state?

I'm not insulting any and all progress, but I disagree with progress for progress's sake. I am not a feminist, nor will I ever be. I like traditions. I like traditional weddings. Why is that wrong?

As far as my opinion on the marriage license, I'm libertarian. Rights are not given by the government, they are intrinsic to our humanity. I don't need the government to tell me I have the right to get married. That's why I don't consider signing the marriage license to be adequate. Not saying your opinion is wrong, just saying it's not mine. I'd just appreciate the same courtesy.

Not touching anything else in this post strictly because I don't have the time while at work, but why exactly can't you have more than a BM/MOH in your wedding party? What expenses will you be out by adding one more person?

SarahWins · March 2014

Flower costs, mostly. I know it doesn't seem like much, but when you have a tight budget it adds up. It's more important for us to have our family there than to have a larger wedding party. That means a more expensive destination venue. It's a sacrifice that we decided to make, but that doesn't mean that we want to exclude female friends from being involved.

JennyColada · March 2014

SarahWins said:

Jennycolada said:

SarahWins said:

I'm libertarian. Rights are not given by the government, they are intrinsic to our humanity.
But…you're wrong. They ARE given by the government.

Whether you think they should or should not is totally beside the point.

So your right to life is something given to you by the government? As in, it's perfectly ok if they just take it away from you. Same with your marriage? If they decide to no longer legally recognize marriages are you just going to stop considering that you're married?

Um, if you want to discuss my government's ability to choose to kill them then that's probably a topic for a different discussion.

Whether or not something is "ok" is different from something being "legal" or simply a fact of how things work currently.

Me being in a legally recognized marriage is totally dependent on my government. And if they choose to recognize it or not is purely based on them, not on my own beliefs. I can't just wake up one morning and decide "hey I think I'm married today!" and automatically get all of the benefits (tax, insurance, or otherwise) that any other married person would get. Same as you cannot just decide "hey, I'm not married today!" and then have a wedding ceremony that would be anything but a fake reinactment.

ZiggyZos · March 2014

SarahWins said:

Flower costs, mostly. I know it doesn't seem like much, but when you have a tight budget it adds up. It's more important for us to have our family there than to have a larger wedding party. That means a more expensive destination venue. It's a sacrifice that we decided to make, but that doesn't mean that we want to exclude female friends from being involved.

So arrange to have less expensive flower options? I mean, this really isn't that hard. There's very simple ways to incorporate one extra person into a(n already very) small wedding party on a limited budget if you truly care about the person and want to make it work.

You're making excuses because you didn't get the responses you were hoping for...

shaylagirl · March 2014

SarahWins said:

As far as my opinion on the marriage license, I'm libertarian. Rights are not given by the government, they are intrinsic to our humanity. I don't need the government to tell me I have the right to get married. That's why I don't consider signing the marriage license to be adequate. Not saying your opinion is wrong, just saying it's not mine. I'd just appreciate the same courtesy.

So, if you believe what you're saying; that rights aren't given by the government but are intrinsic, why the need for a simple piece of paper with signatures on it? Just live with your partner, say "Fuck it!" to your PPD (you know, save money ALL around) and just keep on keepin' on.

OHHHHH, right, to get a BREAK from the government, which supplies many of those things which you might depend upon in case of an emergency, or just for your day-to-day living.

Look, people can't make weddings for a multitude of reasons. You've discovered one; the cost required to get to it. If you REALLY want his family in attendance, pony up the cash yourself to pay to fly them in to watch you sign your MARRIAGE LICENSE at the courthouse. Go out to dinner afterwards to celebrate, call that your reception and it's one and done.

Look, you're not a 'traditional' bride if you're already married and throwing a "play" where you act out something that didn't happen in the first place (your PPD is your One-Act Play performance). TRADITIONAL means you follow TRADITION. Tradition isn't signing the marriage license THEN walking down an aisle in a fucking white dress. TRADITION dictates that the day you sign your marriage license, in your white dress or in a pair of jeans and a t-shirt is your WEDDING DAY.

FuckDamnShit is this really THAT hard to understand for people?

Here, let's let Miss Manners help you out since you seem to be oblivious:

Dear Miss Manners, My husband and I were married this past June in Las Vegas. It was his desire to wed there and I agreed as this was a second marriage for me, but his first. Our families urged us to have a reception upon our return and we thought that would be a great idea. However, with selling two homes, renovating the one we purchased together and getting my children settled into a new community and schools, we never got around to it. He and I are OK with the fact that we never had a reception but our family and friends, particularly his, are constantly urging us to move forward with reception plans. Well, it is now a new year.... His mother wants us to plan a reception for the spring or early summer. Since he has never been married before, she wants all of the tradition that comes with the celebration of marriage (photos, cake, gifts, etc). She is a wonderful mother-in-law and I would like very much to please her. Has too much time passed for us to get away with having a reception nearly one year after our actual wedding day?

Gentle Reader:
Just enough time for you to throw an anniversary party. Miss Manners
is all for wives pleasing their mothers-in-law, but not to the extent of
coercing innocent people into pretending that they are witnessing a wedding
that took place a year ago without their being invited.
Fortunately, there need not be much of a substantive difference
between a post-wedding reception and an anniversary party. By all means
serve a big white cake and take photographs to please your mother-in-law.
However, some things are out of your or her control. You are already married,
and whether or not your guests bring you presents is entirely up to them.

Let me reiterate what I've bolded:NOT TO THE EXTENT OF COERCING INNOCENT PEOPLE INTO PRETENDING THAT THEY ARE WITNESSING A WEDDING.

Hell, I even found ANOTHER Miss Manners column:
State of slight confusion: My wife's best friend got married nearly a year ago. The bride wore beautiful white wedding dress and carried flowers. A small number of friends were in attendance and a meal followed. Pictures were taken and posted online. The problem? This ceremony took place at a courthouse (there were insurance issues that needed to be addressed ASAP). So, this spring, a bit over a year later, they are holding a "real wedding," complete with another ceremony (and large reception). My wife thinks this is perfectly normal, but it seems odd to me. Is this the new normal? Thanks for your reply.

Miss Manners: It's not a "real wedding," because these people are already married. But there are many who regard weddings as a chance to indulge in ego-fests and want as many as possible (without the trouble of divorce), so they stage re-enactments.

JennyColada · March 2014

SarahWins · March 2014

You know what, screw it. I'm obviously alone in my opinions, at least as far as this site is concerned. So glad that everyone could be helpful and supportive of a fellow bride in need. I guess I know where not to go for help.

shrekspeare said:

http://forums.theknot.com/discussion/996776/legally-married-now-having-a-real-wedding-stop-here-first-aka-the-ppd-faq-thread/p1

Here are 961 posts discussing how incredibly rude and insulting it is to have a PPD. 99% of them are in the agreement that PPDs are awful.

So nobody should have a wedding other than going to the courthouse and signing the license. So why are you on this site?

SarahWins · March 2014

shaylagirl said:

SarahWins said:

As far as my opinion on the marriage license, I'm libertarian. Rights are not given by the government, they are intrinsic to our humanity. I don't need the government to tell me I have the right to get married. That's why I don't consider signing the marriage license to be adequate. Not saying your opinion is wrong, just saying it's not mine. I'd just appreciate the same courtesy.

So, if you believe what you're saying; that rights aren't given by the government but are intrinsic, why the need for a simple piece of paper with signatures on it? Just live with your partner, say "Fuck it!" to your PPD (you know, save money ALL around) and just keep on keepin' on.

OHHHHH, right, to get a BREAK from the government, which supplies many of those things which you might depend upon in case of an emergency, or just for your day-to-day living.

Look, people can't make weddings for a multitude of reasons. You've discovered one; the cost required to get to it. If you REALLY want his family in attendance, pony up the cash yourself to pay to fly them in to watch you sign your MARRIAGE LICENSE at the courthouse. Go out to dinner afterwards to celebrate, call that your reception and it's one and done.

Look, you're not a 'traditional' bride if you're already married and throwing a "play" where you act out something that didn't happen in the first place (your PPD is your One-Act Play performance). TRADITIONAL means you follow TRADITION. Tradition isn't signing the marriage license THEN walking down an aisle in a fucking white dress. TRADITION dictates that the day you sign your marriage license, in your white dress or in a pair of jeans and a t-shirt is your WEDDING DAY.
FuckDamnShit is this really THAT hard to understand for people?

So before the days of marriage licenses marriages weren't traditional?

SarahWins · March 2014

You know what, screw it. I was looking for help with an issue we were having. I guess that people don't know how to be supportive and helpful to a fellow bride, though. How about if you disagree, don't comment? That's not going to happen though, so I guess I know where not to come for help/ideas in the future.

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