Stereotypes

KPBM89 · April 2014

I work from home, but I also keep up with our house because I'm always here. Sometimes I will have my work on my computer, but will be waiting for a response from someone so I'll fold laundry or whatever needs done. I got this once:

"Oh all this staying at home is great practice for when you have kids!"

My face just dropped. As someone who attended an all women's college and took an honors psychology and sociology of gender roles course (which I LOVED so much and still email that professor gender articles, 6 years later), I was just completely shocked by that comment. The only thing I could say back was:

"Um what? Nope...no...no. So much wrong with..."

And I couldn't even finish my thoughts so I walked away.

mysticl · April 2014

JCBride2014 said:

So many things. A few that are bothering me lately:

During job interviews, every office told me about their maternity leave and part-time work plans (but my male friends did not get this info). I'm a 26-year-old woman, not a breeding machine. I wasn't even engaged at the time.

+1 on the SAHD thing. Our plan is for Fi to stay home and he's super excited about that. I keep getting comments like, "When it's your baby you'll feel differently," or, "Are you sure you're okay with him staying at home and you being the breadwinner?" These are things that would not be asked it the gender roles were reversed.

Double standards on professional dress for women, specifically in the law field. You're expected to look professional, but not masculine; pretty, but not sexy; put-together but if you're too made up or coiffed, you look like you care more about your makeup than your work.

AND, double standards for professional behavior. I am a dominant, take-charge leader. Or at least, I would be if I were a man. Apparently for a woman, that translates into bitchy, intimidating, and somebody who needs to be "humanized."

Well, I understand them not providing men with maternity leave information since they cannot take maternity leave. If they end up working there they should know the policy so they can know what to expect if a woman they work with takes leave but that isn't something they would use to "sell" the company to a male candidate. Instead they should provide them with information on the company's paternity leave policy if they the have one.

Providing the maternity leave information to women is a good selling point. It may also help women to feel more comfortable about asking about maternity leave at a later date if they need clarification on something. I've heard woman say they are reluctant to ask about the policy because they don't want to be "mommy tracked" before they even start TTC.

The part-time work plans is information that should be given to all candidates.

monkeysip · April 2014

H is going to be a SAHD with our daughter because he can work from home, while I can't.

It would be nice if we could do the traditional gender thing just because I have boobs and H doesn't, so I'll have to pump. I wish I didn't have to.

But other than that, there's nothing stopping him from being just as good a stay at home parent than I would be. People think that's weird, but it's whatever works for your family.

I think it's great when moms can stay home, and a lot of people emphasize how important that is, but it irritates me that they don't emphasize how important it is for children to have their dads in their life either. It's great if kids see their mom all day, but what about when they NEVER see their dad because he's working constantly? How is that healthy for dads or kids? Kids need their fathers too. Ideally, families should work together to help both parents be able to see their kids good amounts.

ahyatt87 · April 2014

The one that close family and friends give FI and I a hard time about is the fact that we both plan to work when we have kids. I will be just starting my career after completing a PhD and FI loves his job. We plan on either sending future children to daycare or hiring a nanny/babysitter. But people seem mortified by the fact that one of us will not be staying at home with the children. Sorry, but at the end of the day it's none of your business.

phira · April 2014

mysticl said:

JCBride2014 said:

So many things. A few that are bothering me lately:

During job interviews, every office told me about their maternity leave and part-time work plans (but my male friends did not get this info). I'm a 26-year-old woman, not a breeding machine. I wasn't even engaged at the time.

+1 on the SAHD thing. Our plan is for Fi to stay home and he's super excited about that. I keep getting comments like, "When it's your baby you'll feel differently," or, "Are you sure you're okay with him staying at home and you being the breadwinner?" These are things that would not be asked it the gender roles were reversed.

Double standards on professional dress for women, specifically in the law field. You're expected to look professional, but not masculine; pretty, but not sexy; put-together but if you're too made up or coiffed, you look like you care more about your makeup than your work.

AND, double standards for professional behavior. I am a dominant, take-charge leader. Or at least, I would be if I were a man. Apparently for a woman, that translates into bitchy, intimidating, and somebody who needs to be "humanized."

Well, I understand them not providing men with maternity leave information since they cannot take maternity leave. If they end up working there they should know the policy so they can know what to expect if a woman they work with takes leave but that isn't something they would use to "sell" the company to a male candidate. Instead they should provide them with information on the company's paternity leave policy if they the have one.

Providing the maternity leave information to women is a good selling point. It may also help women to feel more comfortable about asking about maternity leave at a later date if they need clarification on something. I've heard woman say they are reluctant to ask about the policy because they don't want to be "mommy tracked" before they even start TTC.

The part-time work plans is information that should be given to all candidates.

You can bet I'm not going to talk to potential employers about when I plan to have kids once I finish my degree. Getting mommy-tracked in my field isn't as big of a concern as it is for women in other fields, like law, but it's still pretty terrifying.

All this points out another really sexist problem: lack of mandated paid maternity leave (in the US), and the rarity of paternity leave. Once a kid comes out, both parents should be able to stay home to care for it. Considering that many kids are adopted, that really puts the kibosh on the argument that a mommy is somehow more necessary to care for a new child than a daddy is. And if two men adopt a child, shouldn't they get paternity leave?

bride2b71614 · April 2014

"A woman becomes a mother when she gets pregnant and a man becomes a father when he sees his child for the first time"

I've heard this phrase few times (I saw it in the movie Juno, heard it in hospitals, adoption centers, etc.) and it makes me snarky. This statement assumes that males want no part in parenting until that child is born.

Being a biological mother for a child does not mean that she will have this magical feeling about being a mother. She might not feel that way, she might want to give the child up for adoption. Biological fathers have a range in how active they want to be through their partner's pregnancy. A father of a child may want to be more involved in the pregnancy (ie wants to tag along during ultrasounds, is pumped for parenting classes, wants to decorate the nursery), and some may not have as much involvement.

Whether a couple chooses to parent or adopt, it doesn't automatically mean that their feelings about being a mother and father depend on the birth of a child. Being a mother or a father is more than just contributing to a child biologically. Its providing a child with a nurturing environment, and doing the best you can in terms of raising the child to be the best person they can be.

NavyBlue143 · April 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

NavyBlue143 said:
"I need my brideslaves to help me plan because men don't care about centerpieces and flowers and bedazzling my unicorn!"

Someone in my relationship was Picky McPickPants about centerpieces, stationary, and colors, and it was not me.

Also, H can't wait to be a SAHD. He's excited about mischief and mayhem and giving me grey hair.
This was me and DH. We had a lovely shouting match over whether the votive holders should be red or orange and was the red more apple or cinnamon and was the orange more amber or orange-y. He cared about a lot of things I didn't. A LOT OF THINGS.

We argued (to the point that I locked myself in the bathroom to cry) over how to word the invitations. I wanted to put "together with their parents" because his parents felt really badly that they could not afford to contribute and it seemed a nice way to make everyone feel included. He wanted no mention of parents just to hurt my mom, who was being a Momzilla at the time. He popped off a comment and my options were to slap him for being such a prick or walking away. Being an adult, I walked away. He apologized pretty quickly, once he calmed down and realized how hurtful and untrue what he had said was. I pretty much got my way in any wedding debate after that, he felt so bad.

Every invitation design was too plain, or too fancy, or had improper layout, or weird color scheme, or too girly, or too masculine. Never again.

ElcaB · April 2014

Mine is that women "can't drive."

climbingsingle · April 2014

That men don't want to get married and are essentially forced into it. This goes along with those awful centerpieces where the bride is pulling the groom. Or the inference of a woman being a ball and chain.

That women don't know/care about sports. I'm a bigger sports fanatic than FI and I love going to games.

That men don't help around the house. FI helps me with the housework and the cooking and the reactions from people really piss me off.

mysticl · April 2014

bride2b71614 said:

"A woman becomes a mother when she gets pregnant and a man becomes a father when he sees his child for the first time"
I've heard this phrase few times (I saw it in the movie Juno, heard it in hospitals, adoption centers, etc.) and it makes me snarky. This statement assumes that males want no part in parenting until that child is born.
Being a biological mother for a child does not mean that she will have this magical feeling about being a mother. She might not feel that way, she might want to give the child up for adoption. Biological fathers have a range in how active they want to be through their partner's pregnancy. A father of a child may want to be more involved in the pregnancy (ie wants to tag along during ultrasounds, is pumped for parenting classes, wants to decorate the nursery), and some may not have as much involvement.

Whether a couple chooses to parent or adopt, it doesn't automatically mean that their feelings about being a mother and father depend on the birth of a child. Being a mother or a father is more than just contributing to a child biologically. Its providing a child with a nurturing environment, and doing the best you can in terms of raising the child to be the best person they can be.

I disagree with that statement. I have never interpreted it that way. The way I see it is that once a woman finds out she's pregnant she starts making concessions in her life for the baby. It may be her work schedule, her exercise routine, what she eats, what she drinks, etc. And she has a constant reminder of the baby. Whereas for the man the pregnancy is something that is happening to his partner so any concessions he makes are more for her than the baby (for example DH had to change shaving gels because his made me want to hurl). It often doesn't become real for the father until he meets the baby.

ohannabelle · April 2014

Mine is that women "can't drive."

This one kills me. Yes, that's why our insurance rates are lower. Because statistically, we get fewer tickets, and are less likely to be involved in accidents. Sounds like smart driving to me.

phira · April 2014

mysticl said:

bride2b71614 said:

"A woman becomes a mother when she gets pregnant and a man becomes a father when he sees his child for the first time"
I've heard this phrase few times (I saw it in the movie Juno, heard it in hospitals, adoption centers, etc.) and it makes me snarky. This statement assumes that males want no part in parenting until that child is born.
Being a biological mother for a child does not mean that she will have this magical feeling about being a mother. She might not feel that way, she might want to give the child up for adoption. Biological fathers have a range in how active they want to be through their partner's pregnancy. A father of a child may want to be more involved in the pregnancy (ie wants to tag along during ultrasounds, is pumped for parenting classes, wants to decorate the nursery), and some may not have as much involvement.

Whether a couple chooses to parent or adopt, it doesn't automatically mean that their feelings about being a mother and father depend on the birth of a child. Being a mother or a father is more than just contributing to a child biologically. Its providing a child with a nurturing environment, and doing the best you can in terms of raising the child to be the best person they can be.

I disagree with that statement. I have never interpreted it that way. The way I see it is that once a woman finds out she's pregnant she starts making concessions in her life for the baby. It may be her work schedule, her exercise routine, what she eats, what she drinks, etc. And she has a constant reminder of the baby. Whereas for the man the pregnancy is something that is happening to his partner so any concessions he makes are more for her than the baby (for example DH had to change shaving gels because his made me want to hurl). It often doesn't become real for the father until he meets the baby.

But it's not an okay assumption to make, on either end. Many people who get pregnant do not want to be pregnant; they're not mothers. Many people who do not get pregnant feel like parents from the beginning of a pregnancy (e.g. adoptive or surrogate parents, as well as partners of pregnant people). This isn't a one-size-fits-all thing. Great if it's true for you, but it's not true for everyone.

mysticl · April 2014

phira said:

mysticl said:

bride2b71614 said:

"A woman becomes a mother when she gets pregnant and a man becomes a father when he sees his child for the first time"
I've heard this phrase few times (I saw it in the movie Juno, heard it in hospitals, adoption centers, etc.) and it makes me snarky. This statement assumes that males want no part in parenting until that child is born.
Being a biological mother for a child does not mean that she will have this magical feeling about being a mother. She might not feel that way, she might want to give the child up for adoption. Biological fathers have a range in how active they want to be through their partner's pregnancy. A father of a child may want to be more involved in the pregnancy (ie wants to tag along during ultrasounds, is pumped for parenting classes, wants to decorate the nursery), and some may not have as much involvement.

Whether a couple chooses to parent or adopt, it doesn't automatically mean that their feelings about being a mother and father depend on the birth of a child. Being a mother or a father is more than just contributing to a child biologically. Its providing a child with a nurturing environment, and doing the best you can in terms of raising the child to be the best person they can be.

I disagree with that statement. I have never interpreted it that way. The way I see it is that once a woman finds out she's pregnant she starts making concessions in her life for the baby. It may be her work schedule, her exercise routine, what she eats, what she drinks, etc. And she has a constant reminder of the baby. Whereas for the man the pregnancy is something that is happening to his partner so any concessions he makes are more for her than the baby (for example DH had to change shaving gels because his made me want to hurl). It often doesn't become real for the father until he meets the baby.

But it's not an okay assumption to make, on either end. Many people who get pregnant do not want to be pregnant; they're not mothers. Many people who do not get pregnant feel like parents from the beginning of a pregnancy (e.g. adoptive or surrogate parents, as well as partners of pregnant people). This isn't a one-size-fits-all thing. Great if it's true for you, but it's not true for everyone.

I never meant that it applied to every single person. I just meant that when people say it, it doesn't mean they are implying men aren't interested in the child before it's born.

I used to be a foster care worker, I'm very aware that getting knocked up or knocking someone up doesn't automatically make you a parent.

NYCBruin · April 2014

Jells2dot0 said:

I read this example in an article or blog awhile back and it really stuck with me... When a mom takes off from work to care for a sick child it's either what she's supposed to do or people at her job get annoyed because they have to cover for her etc.. When a dad takes off from work to care for a sick child it's all "aww, he's such a great dad!" People at work are more likely to want to cover for him etc I hate the basic of stereotypes. Women don't know anything about sports, for instance. It's just not true for all women. It hasn't been true for awhile now. Who is telling these men all these lies about women and sports?
Similar to the "taking off of work to care for a sick" child thing: I have found that because I do not have kids, people get annoyed with me when I can't do something. I don't have kids, so I should just be ready to go, 24/7. I used to work with this woman who had two young kids. One of them always had something going on, so she would have to take half days a lot or call out. I usually had to pick up the slack, which was fine. But, there were a few times that I had to leave early and she would give me attitude. Since she was there and able to work later or a full day, I should change my plans to accommodate her. Um, no!! So, while people need to be understanding of those with kids, people also need to be understand that those without kids aren't always going to be there, either.

This one drives me nuts! I really feel for my single co-workers for whom "I have a date" is not an acceptable reason to move a deadline but for someone with kids "Susie has a soccer game" is an acceptable reason to push the deadline for tomorrow. If it's a real deadline, then neither excuse should be acceptable, but if it can be moved, the reason for the ask shouldn't matter. After all, maybe the single person would love to have children but is trying to find someone who they'd like to spend their life with first. I always want to scream at the people who roll their eyes or whatever at people with "non-kid" reasons for leaving early/whatever, "If they don't go on dates, then they'll never have the chance to go to their child's soccer game!" Not to mention, assuming the person doesn't want children, why should they ALWAYS have to be the one to pick up the slack just because they haven't pass on DNA.

larrygaga · April 2014

"You play videogames? You must do it for attention."

I don't like playing with other people, anymore.

Fairyjen1 · April 2014

larrygaga said:

"You play videogames? You must do it for attention."

I don't like playing with other people, anymore.

I've gotten this too. I'm an avid PC gamer and people assume I'm doing it for Fi, who is not a PC gamer!

The one I hate is that everything that goes wrong with a wedding is the Bride's fault. No one says the Groom has bad manners if Thank You cards aren't promptly sent. It's always the bride's fault. Any bad hosting? It's the bride's fault. Not allowing SO's at the wedding, must be because of the Bridezilla! Hey, I'll own any etiquette blunders I make and try to correct them, but I sort of stress out that I'll be thought of being responsible for his too. I'm his Fiance' not his keeper!

larrygaga · April 2014

@Fairyjen1 My FI doesn't play either. It's pretty funny when people find out that I'm the nerd and he is the cute jock type.

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