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Chit Chat

***UPDATE*** NWR - Sexism at work (rant, long)

mrscatymrscaty member
Fifth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments First Answer
edited May 2014 in Chit Chat
Background/info: I am a chemist. Above me is my supervisor (there is one for each area in my department), then the assistant manager, and manager. My supervisor and assistant manager are both women, but all of my peers are men.

Two weeks ago, they fired the supervisor in another area but in my same department. The bosses have not made any decision about a replacement for fired guy. We have been in limbo for two weeks. I (and others in the dept.) believe that my friend, John* should be his replacement. He already works in the area, is very knowledgeable, and wants the job. There have been rumors that instead, my supervisor will be his replacement and they will promote me to head of my area (or she will be head of both areas but I will have more responsibility - the more plausible option, IMO). Fueling these rumors is the fact that a new guy started this week and I have been training him in my area since my supervisor is on vacation (another reason to think she will be promoted - they can't announce anything without talking to her first).

This isn't going over well with John. He doesn't like my supervisor. He doesn't want to train someone he sees as undeserving for the job he wants (understandable). He resents that I may be getting a promotion over him. However, since she isn't here, he is taking this out on me. John and I usually get along well. We went to college together and I got the job at his referral. But he can be an ass. I can take a lot, especially because I'd rather stay professional at work. But he was REALLY grinding my gears this week. Cases in point:

1. A new guy started and I am in charge of training him. I am most certainly not going to speak the way I speak to John, my friend of 5 years, to a guy I just met. Because of this, I was accused by John and another co-worker (also a male) that I was "acting all high and mighty in front of the new guy to impress him because I obviously want to suck his dick."

2. I sometimes have to take samples to another department to be prepared. According to John, because they are all men, it's a given that do what I ask because I "flirt with and shake my tits at them." 

3. The manager (a male) only likes me because I have tits and am nice to look at. Because I suck at my job.

I know these things aren't true. In my yearly review last year, both the assistant manager and manager told me I was doing a wonderful job and that I would have no problem moving up in the company. Today I had my quarterly review and I was told that they value my opinion and that I am excelling in my area (they had gone through three [3!!!!!] people before me that could not do what I do). 

What bothers me the most is that John is supposed to be my friend. He is very opinionated and isn't afraid to tell you what he's thinking. I like this about him, but he is often downright mean (side note - he doesn't seem to understand that this behavior is why he will probably be passed over for promotions). Obviously, from the feedback I've been given, my bosses don't think this about me - thank goodness. 

I'm not looking for advice. I know I should, in a perfect world, report him to HR. I'm not going to do that. We joke around a lot and most days it's harmless. I also understand that what he says is a reflection on no one but him. I just needed to vent. I try to take everything in stride but this past week I worked a ton of overtime and I am tired, cranky, and at the end of my rope. 

Thank you all for listening. I welcome all advice/similar stories to make me feel less alone. 


***UPDATE***

Today I came into work and John had brought me "sorry for being such an asshole last week" chocolate chip cookies from Trader Joe's. Those are the words he used. Verbatim. I'm glad that he saw what a douche he was being and tried to make up for it. Hopefully he will be more conscious of his words and actions in the future. I'll certainly be watching and listening. 
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Re: ***UPDATE*** NWR - Sexism at work (rant, long)

  • I worked in the 1970's when women were expected to tolerate open sexist behavior.  If we didn't go along with the jokes and comments, we were poor sports or "on the rag".
    There is no reason for you to tolerate this behavior in 2014.  Confront this asshole and tell him that if he doesn't stop making sexist comments, you will report him.
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  • Just keep in mind that what these two coworkers are doing IS sexual harassment.  Try to nip it in the bud if you can, because otherwise it is likely to grow worse, and I would be concerned about it starting to spread.
  • mrscatymrscaty member
    Fifth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments First Answer
    edited May 2014
    @ CMGragain @natswild We've gotten into it a few times over things he's said. I am keeping a record of what he (and another co-worker) have been saying so I do have recourse if it ever comes to that. I am just frustrated because I work damn hard at my job.

    @beethery I know I shouldn't talk to him - but we are a small department and I HAVE to interact with him every day. :/

    ETA: spelling is hard
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  • mrscatymrscaty member
    Fifth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments First Answer
    @HisGirlFriday13  I know you're right. I'm waiting to see how the promotions play out. Then I'll strike. I have the bosses on my side so at least there's that.
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  • beethery said:
    charli123 said:
    Background/info: I am a chemist. Above me is my supervisor (there is one for each area in my department), then the assistant manager, and manager. My supervisor and assistant manager are both women, but all of my peers are men.

    Two weeks ago, they fired the supervisor in another area but in my same department. The bosses have not made any decision about a replacement for fired guy. We have been in limbo for two weeks. I (and others in the dept.) believe that my friend, John* should be his replacement. He already works in the area, is very knowledgeable, and wants the job. There have been rumors that instead, my supervisor will be his replacement and they will promote me to head of my area (or she will be head of both areas but I will have more responsibility - the more plausible option, IMO). Fueling these rumors is the fact that a new guy started this week and I have been training him in my area since my supervisor is on vacation (another reason to think she will be promoted - they can't announce anything without talking to her first).

    This isn't going over well with John. He doesn't like my supervisor. He doesn't want to train someone he sees as undeserving for the job he wants (understandable). He resents that I may be getting a promotion over him. However, since she isn't here, he is taking this out on me. John and I usually get along well. We went to college together and I got the job at his referral. But he can be an ass. I can take a lot, especially because I'd rather stay professional at work. But he was REALLY grinding my gears this week. Cases in point:

    1. A new guy started and I am in charge of training him. I am most certainly not going to speak the way I speak to John, my friend of 5 years, to a guy I just met. Because of this, I was accused by John and another co-worker (also a male) that I was "acting all high and mighty in front of the new guy to impress him because I obviously want to suck his dick."

    2. I sometimes have to take samples to another department to be prepared. According to John, because they are all men, it's a given that do what I ask because I "flirt with and shake my tits at them." 

    3. The manager (a male) only likes me because I have tits and am nice to look at. Because I suck at my job.

    I know these things aren't true. In my yearly review last year, both the assistant manager and manager told me I was doing a wonderful job and that I would have no problem moving up in the company. Today I had my quarterly review and I was told that they value my opinion and that I am excelling in my area (they had gone through three [3!!!!!] people before me that could not do what I do). 

    What bothers me the most is that John is supposed to be my friend. He is very opinionated and isn't afraid to tell you what he's thinking. I like this about him, but he is often downright mean (side note - he doesn't seem to understand that this behavior is why he will probably be passed over for promotions). Obviously, from the feedback I've been given, my bosses don't think this about me - thank goodness. 

    I'm not looking for advice. I know I should, in a perfect world, report him to HR. I'm not going to do that. We joke around a lot and most days it's harmless. I also understand that what he says is a reflection on no one but him. I just needed to vent. I try to take everything in stride but this past week I worked a ton of overtime and I am tired, cranky, and at the end of my rope. 

    Thank you all for listening. I welcome all advice/similar stories to make me feel less alone. 
    Tell HR, and after it is addressed, if you feel any need to speak to John, tell him he can fuck right off. What a couple of fucking ASS HOLES. John is obviously not friend material. His actions are beyond apologizing for, and that is not someone you need to waste any more time on.

    Hooooooooly shit. I am so sorry you are dealing with this, you do not deserve to be treated this way, and John needs to get a fucking grip. Possibly on some Andro-Gel since he feels so incredibly emasculated.
    I agree.  If a supposed friend, male or female, ever spoke this way about me at work to others, we would no longer be friends.

    Perhaps these little temper tantrum remarks are why he isn't on the short list for the promotion?

    I totally understand your hesitation with going to HR, because they are not actually advocates for individual employees but rather seek to keep the company's best interest protected.  However, I don't think they would take allegations of sexual harassment lightly, and you may want to consider speaking with them if John's behavior continues or worsens once it is official that he will not be getting the promotion.


    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • John is a dick, and he isn't your friend.  I understand your reluctance to go to HR, even in the face of blatant harassment.  It's good that your superiors aren't tripped up on his BS, and that it seems like they see him for what he is.  

    I just hope that you'll step in if he has an opportunity to put this BS on someone who doesn't have your chops.  
  • mrscatymrscaty member
    Fifth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments First Answer
    @MyNameIsNot Thing is, because we went to college together, he only pulls this with me. I'd probably more readily step up to him if he were acting this way toward another person. Better me than someone else. He's an asshole. Either you accept that and you interact with him or you avoid him at all costs. I forgive his actions and his words but I don't forget. 
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  • I would've called them out on it when they said it, and further called them out if they dared call me a bitch for saying anything. Who says shit like that at work? Seriously?
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  • Report those two immediately! You should never let anyone speak to you like that! You are much more than what those douchecanoes are. You have way more to offer than they will ever have. I wouldn't have missed a beat and as soon as they said those things I would have gone strike to HR. Fuck friendship when lack of respect is clearly involved. Good riddance in my opinion.
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  • AzAnnieAzAnnie member
    Knottie Warrior 100 Comments 100 Love Its
    Go to your manager and tell them what is going on. This is sexual harassment and it is not allowed in the work place ever. This guy is not a friend, he is a spoiled child.
  • phiraphira member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    @artbyallie I wish I could say I would have done the same, but I know that in the moment, it can be very tough to say something. Like, you're half, "I might be overreacting," and half, "Whaaaaat?!"
    Anniversary
    now with ~* INCREASED SASSINESS *~
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  • I implore you to report them both immediately.  When I went in the military for the 2nd time in 1986 I put up with so much (silently) and was harrassed.  A friend of mine was raped and her rapist is still happily on active duty.

    PLEASE, for all that is holy, take action right now.  

    You are recording what they are saying.  Are you telling them each and every time that you don't appreciate the behavior and find it offensive?  If you are not, you are priming them for their next victim.

    Do you think these guys only do this to you?  No way.  Wait til some female comes along and is too afraid to speak up and ends up a hot mess and can't hold the job.  Saw it in the military all the time.

    I am sorry but you have a duty to speak up here.  You can't take this lightly and you can't just right down what they are saying.  You HAVE to tell them each and every time that it is offensive and that they must stop!
  • @phira, I am not sure if this an agree to disagree or me maybe not understanding.  I am not for a minute doubting you when you say friends have suffered repercussions for reporting for others, I just have not experienced it before or seen it happen.

    The military has been rife with sexual harassment for centuries and after my first few years I spoke up every time I could and warned fellow female Soldiers every time I could regarding certain others.  I saw a rampant environment of women being quiet and the harassment continuing to grow because they could get away with it.  In the last 10 or so years of my career other females in my circle, as well as I, went to offenders and told them their actions/words were offensive and to stop.  They usually did.

    Maybe it is agree to disagree?  From my career it is strongly ingrained in me that if I let these behaviors slide towards me, someone else was going to get it too, possibly much worse.  If I couldn't get someone to stop acting like that toward me I reported them (only had to do that twice).  I always felt (still do) I had that obligation.
  • My biggest concern in OP's situation, is that by not saying anything, as @kmmssg said, they will continue to target others, but more importantly, as people see that these 2 douchewipes are getting away with it, that may spark more people to begin harassing.
  • phiraphira member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    @kmmssg It's probably agree to disagree. I don't think anyone should feel obligated to report, as if not reporting would make them responsible for future harassment/assaults. If this coworker continues to harass other women, it won't be the OP's fault; she is not causing his behavior. I do think it would be good for her to report, but not because she's obligated to protect other women.
    Anniversary
    now with ~* INCREASED SASSINESS *~
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  • phira said:
    @artbyallie I wish I could say I would have done the same, but I know that in the moment, it can be very tough to say something. Like, you're half, "I might be overreacting," and half, "Whaaaaat?!"
    Fair enough. I'm blunt by nature and wouldn't (and haven't) hesitate to go "Whoa, why would you say that? That's an awful thing to say."
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  • APDSS22APDSS22 member
    Fifth Anniversary 1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    If you aren't going to report them right now, at least you've been keeping track of the comments and you have recognized these things aren't things coworkers should be saying to each other, especially in the workplace.  I hope you do report this behavior.  Definitely at least tell him his behavior is unprofessional and you do not appreciate being spoken to in a professional setting in that manner. 

    (I think he's a slug's parasitic worm btw.)
  • JCbride2015JCbride2015 member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary First Answer
    edited May 2014
    I also just want to point out, if you silently accept what they are saying, you are making any future case or confrontation worse for yourself. Because John the Dick can turn around and say, "But we bantered back and forth like this for years and she didn't seem to mind it then." So just recording what he's saying might not be enough. You really should confront him about it, and threaten to report to HR if it doesn't stop. ETA lawyer disclaimer: I'm not your lawyer and can't give you legal advice... but you might want to get your own lawyer if you want advice. Because this is serious shit.
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    "I'm not a rude bitch.  I'm ten rude bitches in a large coat."

  • mrscatymrscaty member
    Fifth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments First Answer
    Thank you all for your advice and comments. It's nice to know that I'm not crazy/overreacting. I'm going to bide my time until they announce what's going on with the promotions then I will decide what to do in terms of going the HR/my boss/confront them myself.

    thank you again! 
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  • @charli123, how good of a friend are we talking about here?  Just someone you went to college with, or a 'hang out on weekends' type friend?  If he's the latter, is there something keeping you from sitting his sorry ass down and saying 'look, cut that shit out, you're being a butt and not only are you not going to get the promotions you want, but you're going to get yourself fired'.  But the former...yeah, keep records. I think if you're going to report, they like you to be able to tell them that you've told him straight up more than once that he's making you uncomfortable and he needs to stop (insert behavior here).  He may be doing this to other employees and you just don't know about it or see it, or he could start doing it in the future, depending on how bitter he gets about not getting the promotions.
  • mrscatymrscaty member
    Fifth Anniversary 250 Love Its 100 Comments First Answer
    Update in OP for anyone who cares :)
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  • @charli123 While that is a nice gesture, you need to document any other douchetastic behavior from him in the future. . . not just watch and listen, but document. 

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • honestly that wouldn't change my mind at all. but i don't put up with that shit either
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  • That wouldn't be changing my opinion of him at all. I'd still be documenting everything he does and says, and frankly, I'd see this as more proof that he's just an asshole who thinks he can buy an apology with cookies.
  • Cookies don't make a person friend material, dude can pound sand.
    --

    I'm the fuck
    out.

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