need opinions - FBIL's DW - 2 months after ours - we can't afford it

PrettyGirlLost · May 2014

lyndausvi said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

doeydo said:

I agree with kitty8403 that it is very presumptuous for PPs to say things like they should have consulted them. Yes, we tell brides and grooms on here to consult their VIPs before picking a date and booking their venue, but that does not mean that OP and her FI are this couple's VIPs. They might not even be invited, because the couple has yet to say a word about the wedding to them.

I don't think it's presumptuous at all. Seems like most people in this thread consider immediate family- parents, siblings, grandparents- as VIPs.

When I post my opinions, I don't automatically assume that people are coming from a dysfunctional family where parents or siblings are on the outs, unless that information is specifically mentioned in the OP or in subsequent comments.

exactly.

It's funny how people interrupt things. PrettyGirl and I seem to be on the same page. We understand there is nothing the OP can do, but we understand why she is hurt. We also comment on how it could have been avoided IF (and that is the key word IF) the FBIL really wants the OP to be there (which we do not know at this point).

Those comments are really directed towards lurkers than the FBIL. We are basically saying is "look all you people who have not set dates and locations yet, you might want to think about your VIPs before making any firm plans IF you really want them there" (notice the IF in that statement).

That does not mean the VIPs opinions count, but a DW 7 months out in DECEMBER only 2 months after another siblings wedding MAY be an issue for some of your guests. You are not a jerk if you continue with those plans, but you can't be upset if some of what you might consider VIPs can't make it.

Lucky for me my brother and SIL DID take into consideration when my parents said they just can't attend and give financial support for a wedding during the next 9 months. They were tapped out vacation and money wise. I was tapped out at that point also. Had they decided on a wedding earlier I would not have been able to attend. I would have been disappointed, but that's life.

Yes, yes! Exactly this

And when I read that the FBIL hadn't told his brother about the wedding yet, but had told their parents and had announced the wedding date on FB, I just assumed FBIL was clueless. Not that he is trying to snub his brother, not that he isn't intended to invite him, etc. I just assumed he was a young fool.

I will continue to assume this until otherwise corrected.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

PrettyGirlLost said:

lyndausvi said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

doeydo said:

I agree with kitty8403 that it is very presumptuous for PPs to say things like they should have consulted them. Yes, we tell brides and grooms on here to consult their VIPs before picking a date and booking their venue, but that does not mean that OP and her FI are this couple's VIPs. They might not even be invited, because the couple has yet to say a word about the wedding to them.

I don't think it's presumptuous at all. Seems like most people in this thread consider immediate family- parents, siblings, grandparents- as VIPs.

When I post my opinions, I don't automatically assume that people are coming from a dysfunctional family where parents or siblings are on the outs, unless that information is specifically mentioned in the OP or in subsequent comments.

exactly.

It's funny how people interrupt things. PrettyGirl and I seem to be on the same page. We understand there is nothing the OP can do, but we understand why she is hurt. We also comment on how it could have been avoided IF (and that is the key word IF) the FBIL really wants the OP to be there (which we do not know at this point).

Those comments are really directed towards lurkers than the FBIL. We are basically saying is "look all you people who have not set dates and locations yet, you might want to think about your VIPs before making any firm plans IF you really want them there" (notice the IF in that statement).

That does not mean the VIPs opinions count, but a DW 7 months out in DECEMBER only 2 months after another siblings wedding MAY be an issue for some of your guests. You are not a jerk if you continue with those plans, but you can't be upset if some of what you might consider VIPs can't make it.

Lucky for me my brother and SIL DID take into consideration when my parents said they just can't attend and give financial support for a wedding during the next 9 months. They were tapped out vacation and money wise. I was tapped out at that point also. Had they decided on a wedding earlier I would not have been able to attend. I would have been disappointed, but that's life.

Yes, yes! Exactly this

And when I read that the FBIL hadn't told his brother about the wedding yet, but had told their parents and had announced the wedding date on FB, I just assumed FBIL was clueless. Not that he is trying to snub his brother, not that he isn't intended to invite him, etc. I just assumed he was a young fool.

I will continue to assume this until otherwise corrected.

Me, too! We didn't consult DH's parents, but they weren't invited, let alone VIPs. But unless people tell me there's disfunction, I assume functionality unless otherwise corrected.

kitty8403 · May 2014

I was going to be done, but I'm feeling the need to put this out there more clearly. It is, IMO, completely inappropriate to tell or hint to any couple that they are somehow being selfish by choosing or simply not moving a particular wedding date *just because it inconveniences you.* The only people required to be there are the couple themselves, their officiant, and witnesses. They love you, want you there, and might very well be willing to work around your unique schedule, but it's wrong for us, as guests, to demand that they do so or to assume that we personally are entitled to "VIP" treatment. We don't know everything that individual couple is trying to cope with. My STDs went out 6 months in advance. If my brother had come to me and said, "hey, we're engaged and thinking of getting married at one of these times," the ONLY appropriate response would have been, "Congratulations, honey! The second choice would be best for us." My wedding is in July. If he came to me tomorrow and said, "hey! I'm engaged and we set a date for September, two months after you," then my response would be, "Congrats, honey! I don't know if we can make it on such short notice, but we'll sure do our best!" And then I would rip into my guest list, get a card with air miles, downgrade the bar, cancel my honeymoon, pick up extra hours at work, or whatever else it took to make that trip possible. If it turned out to not be feasible, then we simply wouldn't go. But I would never, ever give him or family any indication that I felt he was "wrong" to choose a time that wasn't the best for me.

TeddiD34 · May 2014

FBIL is a fool, and yes, he does want FI there (they spoke last night). No one has any intention of calling anyone "selfish...". Not what I was getting at with this post.

Thanks for all of your input, ladies. We'll do whatever we can, and all will be fine.

Thanks

kitty8403 · May 2014

FizzySips said:

kitty8403 said:

"This all has to do with making choices." Yes, it does. And that cuts both ways.
She can't control their choices, even if they do appear to be short-sighted. It's perfectly reasonable for her to feel hurt by the lack of consideration for her personal situation. It is not, however, reasonable to assume that this is a deliberate slight.
What she can control is her own decisions. If I knew my FI's brother was engaged, but I didn't have a date yet, I would pull a couple vacation days and hold them until I knew the date and had an invite in hand. I would rethink my own wedding expenses so I didn't blow all our spare cash, and if our honeymoon was not already booked, I would consider delaying it.

You would consider delaying your honeymoon and adjusting how you spend money on your wedding for a sibling who didn't bother to ask your availability and you found out their date on FB??? Why would you show more courtesy than they showed you?

--- Because I'm a grownup. And because I think claiming a sibling's choice of wedding date should be moved/is too close to mine/is thoughtless *because I had intended to blow all my money and free time on myself* is a crappy excuse. Eta: also, because it's pretty poor planning to intentionally decide you will be out of money and vacation time post-wedding. It's one thing if shit happens, but seriously, you aren't making any sort of buffer/emergency plans?

PrettyGirlLost · May 2014

kitty8403 said:

I was going to be done, but I'm feeling the need to put this out there more clearly. It is, IMO, completely inappropriate to tell or hint to any couple that they are somehow being selfish by choosing or simply not moving a particular wedding date *just because it inconveniences you.* No one was saying or implying this. I don't think you are really reading what we have been saying. The only people required to be there are the couple themselves, their officiant, and witnesses. If this is what a couple really feels, then they should probably just elope. I think most ppl want certain family and friends to be present, hence why they typically check with their VIPs before setting anything in stone. And why we suggest to ppl planning their weddings that they do so. The reality is also that any couple can just pull a date out of their ass and claim that is their wedding date. But unless they actually have a signed contract with a ceremony/reception venue, then they don't actually have a wedding date in place. They love you, want you there, and might very well be willing to work around your unique schedule, but it's wrong for us, as guests, to demand that they do so or to assume that we personally are entitled to "VIP" treatment. No one was saying that the OP or anyone was entitled to VIP treatment. However, I will say it again, it's logical for the OP and the rest of us to assume that her FI, the brother of the groom to be, is a VIP as he is his sibling and immediate family. In most functional families, that's how it works and that is the context we were posting from. No one expects or suggests that couples check with distant relatives before finalizing a wedding date- we suggest checking with immediate family and grandparents. We don't know everything that individual couple is trying to cope with. I'm not going to assume any form of dysfunction, family issue, crisis etc unless it is explicitly stated. My STDs went out 6 months in advance. If my brother had come to me and said, "hey, we're engaged and thinking of getting married at one of these times," the ONLY appropriate response would have been, "Congratulations, honey! The second choice would be best for us." And I think it's just common freaking sense to realize that planning a DW, which is far more expensive for any guest than a local wedding or an OOT wedding Stateside, for 2 months after a sibling's wedding and in December when people need to plan for Christmas both financially and with regards to PTO time is kind of a stupid idea *if* you don't want a high decline rate. This is reality. My wedding is in July. If he came to me tomorrow and said, "hey! I'm engaged and we set a date for September, two months after you," then my response would be, "Congrats, honey! I don't know if we can make it on such short notice, but we'll sure do our best!" Yep, that's reasonable. And then I would rip into my guest list, get a card with air miles, downgrade the bar, cancel my honeymoon, pick up extra hours at work, or whatever else it took to make that trip possible. If it turned out to not be feasible, then we simply wouldn't go. But I would never, ever give him or family any indication that I felt he was "wrong" to choose a time that wasn't the best for me. OP did not suggest she was doing this, nor did any of the rest of us suggest she do this.

PrettyGirlLost · May 2014

kitty8403 said:

FizzySips said:

kitty8403 said:

"This all has to do with making choices." Yes, it does. And that cuts both ways.
She can't control their choices, even if they do appear to be short-sighted. It's perfectly reasonable for her to feel hurt by the lack of consideration for her personal situation. It is not, however, reasonable to assume that this is a deliberate slight.
What she can control is her own decisions. If I knew my FI's brother was engaged, but I didn't have a date yet, I would pull a couple vacation days and hold them until I knew the date and had an invite in hand. I would rethink my own wedding expenses so I didn't blow all our spare cash, and if our honeymoon was not already booked, I would consider delaying it.

You would consider delaying your honeymoon and adjusting how you spend money on your wedding for a sibling who didn't bother to ask your availability and you found out their date on FB??? Why would you show more courtesy than they showed you?

--- Because I'm a grownup. And because I think claiming a sibling's choice of wedding date should be moved/is too close to mine/is thoughtless *because I had intended to blow all my money and free time on myself* is a crappy excuse. Eta: also, because it's pretty poor planning to intentionally decide you will be out of money and vacation time post-wedding. It's one thing if shit happens, but seriously, you aren't making any sort of buffer/emergency plans?

I find the tone of this post and the one before it pretty judgey and sanctimonious, and I'm wondering if you are actually projecting a bit because you are upset that your brother will be on military duty and unable to attend your wedding? I'm only asking because you seem to be pretty upset by the OP's posts and our opinions.

If a person, such as OP, sets a budget for her wedding and allocates time off for a honeymoon, and then someone gets engaged and sets a wedding date after those plans are set, and it is not feasible for this person to attend the other wedding, it doesn't make that person selfish nor is the reasoning they can't attend an excuse, or selfish. It just is what it is.

I will use myself as an example- I am also getting married this October and then going on my honeymoon. If my sister becomes engaged and chooses to have a DW in December of this year, I will have to decline to attend because I will not have the time off nor money to attend. My plans are set, and have been set for at least a year.

Yes, we have "emergency funds" but those are for emergencies, and a sudden DW wedding planned for the end of the year does not count as an emergency to me- that's more like a vacation.

As far as my vacation time, that cannot be banked past a certain number of hours, and I only accrue so many hours per month. Not only that, but even if I wasn't going on my honeymoon, I'd still have to decline to attend a DW in December because of Christmas! I enjoy buying and making gifts for people, and that will be the priority for my disposable funds at that point.

kitty8403 · May 2014

You would consider delaying your honeymoon and adjusting how you spend money on your wedding for a sibling who didn't bother to ask your availability and you found out their date on FB??? Why would you show more courtesy than they showed you?

--- Because I'm a grownup. And because I think claiming a sibling's choice of wedding date should be moved/is too close to mine/is thoughtless *because I had intended to blow all my money and free time on myself* is a crappy excuse. Eta: also, because it's pretty poor planning to intentionally decide you will be out of money and vacation time post-wedding. It's one thing if shit happens, but seriously, you aren't making any sort of buffer/emergency plans?

I find the tone of this post and the one before it pretty judgey and sanctimonious, and I'm wondering if you are actually projecting a bit because you are upset that your brother will be on military duty and unable to attend your wedding? I'm only asking because you seem to be pretty upset by the OP's posts and our opinions.

If a person, such as OP, sets a budget for her wedding and allocates time off for a honeymoon, and then someone gets engaged and sets a wedding date after those plans are set, and it is not feasible for this person to attend the other wedding, it doesn't make that person selfish nor is the reasoning they can't attend an excuse, or selfish. It just is what it is.

I will use myself as an example- I am also getting married this October and then going on my honeymoon. If my sister becomes engaged and chooses to have a DW in December of this year, I will have to decline to attend because I will not have the time off nor money to attend. My plans are set, and have been set for at least a year.

Yes, we have "emergency funds" but those are for emergencies, and a sudden DW wedding planned for the end of the year does not count as an emergency to me- that's more like a vacation.

As far as my vacation time, that cannot be banked past a certain number of hours, and I only accrue so many hours per month. Not only that, but even if I wasn't going on my honeymoon, I'd still have to decline to attend a DW in December because of Christmas! I enjoy buying and making gifts for people, and that will be the priority for my disposable funds at that point.

OP, I'm truly sorry if that came across as overly judgmental.

Regarding the above, I realize she's feeling hurt, and I would probably feel that way, too, about some of this. However, not all of that hurt is directly etiquette related or the responsibility of the other couple. Some things still depend on how the OP and her FI decide to respond to the situation. I am naturally a planner and a control freak, so my focus, faced with such a frustrating scenario, naturally goes to considering what I could do myself.

Finding out about my FBIL's wedding details via other people on social media would upset me, too. That is an etiquette issue. The couple should not have done that. That is clearly their error, and I would not be happy about it.

Finding out that a close relative chose not to prioritize, or even ask about, my personal financial/work situation while planning their own wedding is not really a matter of etiquette. It's just a difference in priorities. The two couples focused on different things. The OP's expectations of what would be taken into consideration, and who would be consulted during the date selection, were not met. Yes, since she is family, it's fair to argue that the other couple could have been more considerate and checked in with her and other family members about finances, time, and the concept of DWs around the holidays in addition to whatever preexisting scheduling criteria they already had. That might have been nice of them. But that is going the extra mile (beyond specific date conflicts with selected VIPs), and they weren't obligated to do so. This part, and any hurt feelings resulting from not having a personal issue taken under advisement, is not an etiquette problem. It's a mismatched expectations problem. And yes, the couple's decision not to go the extra mile does have potential consequences, in that the OP may not be able to attend and the FBIL may not get to see her.

hyechica81 · May 2014

if it was me i would find a way to attend the wedidng thats just me but you have to do what you can afford and whats right

kitty8403 · May 2014

PrettyGirlLost said:

kitty8403 said:

I was going to be done, but I'm feeling the need to put this out there more clearly. It is, IMO, completely inappropriate to tell or hint to any couple that they are somehow being selfish by choosing or simply not moving a particular wedding date *just because it inconveniences you.* No one was saying or implying this. I don't think you are really reading what we have been saying. PP stated outright that FBIL should consider moving the date if he really cares about the OP. Conversely, if FBIL does not move the date, then he must not care about the OP very much. We should be able to agree that this argument is over the top. Date decisions are not anybody else's business, and it' doesn't make a lot of sense to let yourself get your feelings hurt over something that is not your business in the first place. The couple chooses their date based on what works for them, with input from whoever they choose, about whatever issues they deem worthy of consideration. This is not something to take personally. Date discussions/lack of discussions are not a direct reflection of the way a soon-to-be married couple feels about you. The only people required to be there are the couple themselves, their officiant, and witnesses. If this is what a couple really feels, then they should probably just elope. I think most ppl want certain family and friends to be present, hence why they typically check with their VIPs before setting anything in stone. And why we suggest to ppl planning their weddings that they do so. The reality is also that any couple can just pull a date out of their ass and claim that is their wedding date. But unless they actually have a signed contract with a ceremony/reception venue, then they don't actually have a wedding date in place. Wanting family/friends to make it is great. The reality is that at any given point in time, some of them probably will have to decline. None of us knows what the future holds, so we each make planning decisions to the best of our abilities. Once a date is set, it's set. There is very, very little reason to move it once it's chosen, barring matters of life and death, military deployment, serious catastrophe, or venue screwups. (Most of the objections raised in this thread fall into the general categories of convenience and personal finances. To me, this is not a good enough reason to justify pushing for a complete schedule change. Perhaps it is different in other families, but if we allowed this in mine, we'd never get it done.) If a date is not yet official, then sure, debate away if you're asked. They love you, want you there, and might very well be willing to work around your unique schedule, but it's wrong for us, as guests, to demand that they do so or to assume that we personally are entitled to "VIP" treatment. No one was saying that the OP or anyone was entitled to VIP treatment. However, I will say it again, it's logical for the OP and the rest of us to assume that her FI, the brother of the groom to be, is a VIP as he is his sibling and immediate family. In most functional families, that's how it works and that is the context we were posting from. No one expects or suggests that couples check with distant relatives before finalizing a wedding date- we suggest checking with immediate family and grandparents. I'm totally cool with that suggestion. However, working around specific family/VIP wishes is not a requirement, and individual members may not get their way even if they are asked. The couple is also perfectly free to choose their date without reference to anyone other than their officiant/witnesses, if they wish. The consequence of doing so is a higher likelihood of declines. That is the risk they take. We don't know everything that individual couple is trying to cope with. I'm not going to assume any form of dysfunction, family issue, crisis etc unless it is explicitly stated. I wasn't assuming dysfunction, either. Just acknowledging that my definition of VIP may not equal someone else's. Each couple may be working around scheduling issues that individual guests are not aware of, and some of those other issues may be taking precedence. My STDs went out 6 months in advance. If my brother had come to me and said, "hey, we're engaged and thinking of getting married at one of these times," the ONLY appropriate response would have been, "Congratulations, honey! The second choice would be best for us." And I think it's just common freaking sense to realize that planning a DW, which is far more expensive for any guest than a local wedding or an OOT wedding Stateside, for 2 months after a sibling's wedding and in December when people need to plan for Christmas both financially and with regards to PTO time is kind of a stupid idea *if* you don't want a high decline rate. This is reality. I agree, but if FBIL is ok with that, then that is their decision and the consequence they face. It's not anybody's else's call. My wedding is in July. If he came to me tomorrow and said, "hey! I'm engaged and we set a date for September, two months after you," then my response would be, "Congrats, honey! I don't know if we can make it on such short notice, but we'll sure do our best!" Yep, that's reasonable. And then I would rip into my guest list, get a card with air miles, downgrade the bar, cancel my honeymoon, pick up extra hours at work, or whatever else it took to make that trip possible. If it turned out to not be feasible, then we simply wouldn't go. But I would never, ever give him or family any indication that I felt he was "wrong" to choose a time that wasn't the best for me. OP did not suggest she was doing this, nor did any of the rest of us suggest she do this. OK, not in so many words, perhaps. The general thread tone, however, appears to be that the FBIL screwed up by choosing a date without considering more issues/people than he did. I do not agree that this is an etiquette mistake. It's a private decision, one within his/his fiancee's rights. It does come with potential consequences, meaning that the less outside input he seeks, the better the odds that others won't be able to make it.

LDay2014 · May 2014

kitty8403 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

kitty8403 said:

I was going to be done, but I'm feeling the need to put this out there more clearly. It is, IMO, completely inappropriate to tell or hint to any couple that they are somehow being selfish by choosing or simply not moving a particular wedding date *just because it inconveniences you.* No one was saying or implying this. I don't think you are really reading what we have been saying. PP stated outright that FBIL should consider moving the date if he really cares about the OP. Conversely, if FBIL does not move the date, then he must not care about the OP very much. We should be able to agree that this argument is over the top. Date decisions are not anybody else's business, and it' doesn't make a lot of sense to let yourself get your feelings hurt over something that is not your business in the first place. The couple chooses their date based on what works for them, with input from whoever they choose, about whatever issues they deem worthy of consideration. This is not something to take personally. Date discussions/lack of discussions are not a direct reflection of the way a soon-to-be married couple feels about you. The only people required to be there are the couple themselves, their officiant, and witnesses. If this is what a couple really feels, then they should probably just elope. I think most ppl want certain family and friends to be present, hence why they typically check with their VIPs before setting anything in stone. And why we suggest to ppl planning their weddings that they do so. The reality is also that any couple can just pull a date out of their ass and claim that is their wedding date. But unless they actually have a signed contract with a ceremony/reception venue, then they don't actually have a wedding date in place. Wanting family/friends to make it is great. The reality is that at any given point in time, some of them probably will have to decline. None of us knows what the future holds, so we each make planning decisions to the best of our abilities. Once a date is set, it's set. There is very, very little reason to move it once it's chosen, barring matters of life and death, military deployment, serious catastrophe, or venue screwups. (Most of the objections raised in this thread fall into the general categories of convenience and personal finances. To me, this is not a good enough reason to justify pushing for a complete schedule change. Perhaps it is different in other families, but if we allowed this in mine, we'd never get it done.) If a date is not yet official, then sure, debate away if you're asked. They love you, want you there, and might very well be willing to work around your unique schedule, but it's wrong for us, as guests, to demand that they do so or to assume that we personally are entitled to "VIP" treatment. No one was saying that the OP or anyone was entitled to VIP treatment. However, I will say it again, it's logical for the OP and the rest of us to assume that her FI, the brother of the groom to be, is a VIP as he is his sibling and immediate family. In most functional families, that's how it works and that is the context we were posting from. No one expects or suggests that couples check with distant relatives before finalizing a wedding date- we suggest checking with immediate family and grandparents. I'm totally cool with that suggestion. However, working around specific family/VIP wishes is not a requirement, and individual members may not get their way even if they are asked. The couple is also perfectly free to choose their date without reference to anyone other than their officiant/witnesses, if they wish. The consequence of doing so is a higher likelihood of declines. That is the risk they take. We don't know everything that individual couple is trying to cope with. I'm not going to assume any form of dysfunction, family issue, crisis etc unless it is explicitly stated. I wasn't assuming dysfunction, either. Just acknowledging that my definition of VIP may not equal someone else's. Each couple may be working around scheduling issues that individual guests are not aware of, and some of those other issues may be taking precedence. My STDs went out 6 months in advance. If my brother had come to me and said, "hey, we're engaged and thinking of getting married at one of these times," the ONLY appropriate response would have been, "Congratulations, honey! The second choice would be best for us." And I think it's just common freaking sense to realize that planning a DW, which is far more expensive for any guest than a local wedding or an OOT wedding Stateside, for 2 months after a sibling's wedding and in December when people need to plan for Christmas both financially and with regards to PTO time is kind of a stupid idea *if* you don't want a high decline rate. This is reality. I agree, but if FBIL is ok with that, then that is their decision and the consequence they face. It's not anybody's else's call. My wedding is in July. If he came to me tomorrow and said, "hey! I'm engaged and we set a date for September, two months after you," then my response would be, "Congrats, honey! I don't know if we can make it on such short notice, but we'll sure do our best!" Yep, that's reasonable. And then I would rip into my guest list, get a card with air miles, downgrade the bar, cancel my honeymoon, pick up extra hours at work, or whatever else it took to make that trip possible. If it turned out to not be feasible, then we simply wouldn't go. But I would never, ever give him or family any indication that I felt he was "wrong" to choose a time that wasn't the best for me. OP did not suggest she was doing this, nor did any of the rest of us suggest she do this. OK, not in so many words, perhaps. The general thread tone, however, appears to be that the FBIL screwed up by choosing a date without considering more issues/people than he did. I do not agree that this is an etiquette mistake. It's a private decision, one within his/his fiancee's rights. It does come with potential consequences, meaning that the less outside input he seeks, the better the odds that others won't be able to make it.

You read it th same way I did.

kkitkat79 · May 2014

I don't think anyone suggested this was an etiquette issue. The only thing that is suggested is that if the FBIL wants his brother at the wedding he needs to check when the brother is available before setting the date. If no common date can be found then well it's too bad. But it is not unreasonable to have that consultation. And it is not unreasonable to wonder how there can be an expectation of attendance if the person knows that attendance might not be possible at the set time. On the other hand it is about family dynamics as well. I, for one, fully expect my twin sister to consult with me when she plans something important that I should be a part of. I do the same for her. I made sure to clear our wedding date with my parents, my sister, and my husband's family. Other families might approach things differently.

PrettyGirlLost · May 2014

kitty8403 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

kitty8403 said:

I was going to be done, but I'm feeling the need to put this out there more clearly. It is, IMO, completely inappropriate to tell or hint to any couple that they are somehow being selfish by choosing or simply not moving a particular wedding date *just because it inconveniences you.* No one was saying or implying this. I don't think you are really reading what we have been saying. PP stated outright that FBIL should consider moving the date if he really cares about the OP. Yes, and this is the point you seem to continue to miss, or are choosing to ignore. . . *IF* the FBIL wants his brother to attend his wedding, and his brother cannot attend, he should consider moving the date. If he hasn't booked anything yet, then this is merely a date pulled out of their asses and they can be flexible *IF* they want to be and *IF* they want their brother to attend. Conversely, if FBIL does not move the date, then he must not care about the OP very much. I don't think anyone ever said that. We should be able to agree that this argument is over the top. Date decisions are not anybody else's business, and it' doesn't make a lot of sense to let yourself get your feelings hurt over something that is not your business in the first place. The couple chooses their date based on what works for them, with input from whoever they choose, about whatever issues they deem worthy of consideration. This is not something to take personally. Date discussions/lack of discussions are not a direct reflection of the way a soon-to-be married couple feels about you. The only people required to be there are the couple themselves, their officiant, and witnesses. If this is what a couple really feels, then they should probably just elope. I think most ppl want certain family and friends to be present, hence why they typically check with their VIPs before setting anything in stone. And why we suggest to ppl planning their weddings that they do so. The reality is also that any couple can just pull a date out of their ass and claim that is their wedding date. But unless they actually have a signed contract with a ceremony/reception venue, then they don't actually have a wedding date in place. Wanting family/friends to make it is great. The reality is that at any given point in time, some of them probably will have to decline. None of us knows what the future holds, so we each make planning decisions to the best of our abilities. Once a date is set, it's set. No, not at all. Once venues have been booked- as in a contract has been signed- then the date is set. And even then there are times when that date can be changed. There is very, very little reason to move it once it's chosen, barring matters of life and death, military deployment, serious catastrophe, or venue screwups. Or to ensure specific ppl you actually want to attend your wedding can make it. (Most of the objections raised in this thread fall into the general categories of convenience and personal finances. To me, this is not a good enough reason to justify pushing for a complete schedule change. Perhaps it is different in other families, but if we allowed this in mine, we'd never get it done.) If a date is not yet official, then sure, debate away if you're asked. They love you, want you there, and might very well be willing to work around your unique schedule, but it's wrong for us, as guests, to demand that they do so or to assume that we personally are entitled to "VIP" treatment. No one was saying that the OP or anyone was entitled to VIP treatment. However, I will say it again, it's logical for the OP and the rest of us to assume that her FI, the brother of the groom to be, is a VIP as he is his sibling and immediate family. In most functional families, that's how it works and that is the context we were posting from. No one expects or suggests that couples check with distant relatives before finalizing a wedding date- we suggest checking with immediate family and grandparents. I'm totally cool with that suggestion. However, working around specific family/VIP wishes is not a requirement, and individual members may not get their way even if they are asked. The couple is also perfectly free to choose their date without reference to anyone other than their officiant/witnesses, if they wish. The consequence of doing so is a higher likelihood of declines. That is the risk they take. We don't know everything that individual couple is trying to cope with. I'm not going to assume any form of dysfunction, family issue, crisis etc unless it is explicitly stated. I wasn't assuming dysfunction, either. Just acknowledging that my definition of VIP may not equal someone else's. Each couple may be working around scheduling issues that individual guests are not aware of, and some of those other issues may be taking precedence. My STDs went out 6 months in advance. If my brother had come to me and said, "hey, we're engaged and thinking of getting married at one of these times," the ONLY appropriate response would have been, "Congratulations, honey! The second choice would be best for us." And I think it's just common freaking sense to realize that planning a DW, which is far more expensive for any guest than a local wedding or an OOT wedding Stateside, for 2 months after a sibling's wedding and in December when people need to plan for Christmas both financially and with regards to PTO time is kind of a stupid idea *if* you don't want a high decline rate. This is reality. I agree, but if FBIL is ok with that, then that is their decision and the consequence they face. It's not anybody's else's call. My wedding is in July. If he came to me tomorrow and said, "hey! I'm engaged and we set a date for September, two months after you," then my response would be, "Congrats, honey! I don't know if we can make it on such short notice, but we'll sure do our best!" Yep, that's reasonable. And then I would rip into my guest list, get a card with air miles, downgrade the bar, cancel my honeymoon, pick up extra hours at work, or whatever else it took to make that trip possible. If it turned out to not be feasible, then we simply wouldn't go. But I would never, ever give him or family any indication that I felt he was "wrong" to choose a time that wasn't the best for me. OP did not suggest she was doing this, nor did any of the rest of us suggest she do this. OK, not in so many words, perhaps. The general thread tone, however, appears to be that the FBIL screwed up by choosing a date without considering more issues/people than he did. I do not agree that this is an etiquette mistake. It's a private decision, one within his/his fiancee's rights. It does come with potential consequences, meaning that the less outside input he seeks, the better the odds that others won't be able to make it.

TeddiD34 · May 2014

Just as an update to this: We've decided to change our HM plans, and do it where FBIL's wedding will be held. It's not ideal, but, we want to see him get married. Life is all about compromise, right?

Thanks again, ladies

LDay2014 · May 2014

TeddiD34 said:

Just as an update to this: We've decided to change our HM plans, and do it where FBIL's wedding will be held. It's not ideal, but, we want to see him get married. Life is all about compromise, right?
Thanks again, ladies

If you and FI are happy doing that, then great!

If I were you, I likely would have done the same thing.

need opinions - FBIL's DW - 2 months after ours - we can't afford it

Re: need opinions - FBIL's DW - 2 months after ours - we can't afford it

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