Wedding Etiquette Forum

Cash Bars - Everything you need to know in one place

12223242628

Re: Cash Bars - Everything you need to know in one place

  • Um.... where do you live? I've literally never heard of open bars being illegal. Every wedding I've been to had an open bar except one (cash bar), and nobody was happy about it.
    My colors are "blood of my enemies" and "rage".

    http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3h1kr8sYk1qzve89.gif
  • Jen4948Jen4948 member
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    No but paying makes them responsible. Just something to think about and check also read this. While many people may think that liquor liability does not apply to them unless they own a business such as a liquor store, tavern, bar, or restaurant, there are circumstances in which people outside the alcohol business need liquor liability coverage. For example, a wedding reception at which alcohol is served could create a situation in which the host would be liable for the actions of someone who become drunk. Some venues have liability policies which cover private events, and in other cases, it's necessary to purchase what is known as a host liquor policy, a type of policy tailored to someone who is not in the business of alcohol sales, production, or service, but who needs liability coverage.
    None of this makes cash bars appropriate or will stop people from drinking too much.  Regardless of the host's liability, it is still his/her responsibility to pay for the drinks-not the guests'.
  • No but paying makes them responsible. Just something to think about and check also read this. While many people may think that liquor liability does not apply to them unless they own a business such as a liquor store, tavern, bar, or restaurant, there are circumstances in which people outside the alcohol business need liquor liability coverage. For example, a wedding reception at which alcohol is served could create a situation in which the host would be liable for the actions of someone who become drunk. Some venues have liability policies which cover private events, and in other cases, it's necessary to purchase what is known as a host liquor policy, a type of policy tailored to someone who is not in the business of alcohol sales, production, or service, but who needs liability coverage.
    Yeah.. not to through out the lawyer card but no, this is not the case for open bars. Paying for the alcohol doesn't make you responsible. It could if you were having it at your house, but that's why we always say to get a bartender. Paying for someones drinks does not make you liable for a drunk person's actions. (So don't worry about having an open bar, or buying your buddy a drink)

    image
  • APDSS22APDSS22 member
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Love Its First Answer
    cmfarr said:
    APDSS22 said:
    I've read a lot of these but haven't seen one thing... I've been to one open bar ever at a wedding. In my area most places wont let you have them reason being someone has to much and drinks, drives and kills someone the vendor as well as host in this case wedding couple can be held responsible. Same reason they ended the bars running special nights 10 bucks buys you whatever. Anyway just something I wanted to share.
    I am also wondering where you're from.  The bartender's job is to make sure guests don't get over-served by cutting off people who have had too much.  They should also be calling cabs for those too drunk to drive.  Making people buy their own alcohol has never stopped people from drinking.  It's never stopped people from getting wasted and driving, it just makes them do things like pawn jewelry and steal tvs from relatives to pay for their addiction, but it doesn't stop them from drinking.

    I'm not sure where she's from, but in BC they have some sort of weird liquor law that the host of the event is liable for the guests, so if some one were to drink and drive and cause an accident the host would be responsible. I don't understand it, I just have heard that is why we no longer have alcohol at our departmental events.
    If there was such a law in the place where she is, I could see her problem.  But honestly, a dry wedding is always an option, making guests pay for it is just wrong.
  • laurynm84 said:
    I have a question about this issue and am specifically interested an anyone with some familiarity with current customs in Ireland and/or the UK

    We're having a intimate wedding that is destination by default because no one lives in the same place. My FI's family is coming from the UK and I fully intend on hosting them properly for every second of the trip.

    My question is about bar issues. My family and friends would be perfectly happy with beer and wine, however his family favors hard alcohol. He has repeatedly told me that his family would EXPECT to pay for drinks and be able to go to the bar and buy whatever they want. He would like a cash bar on top of the beer and wine. I think it is totally absurd from them to fly 3500 miles and then pay for drinks. I thought offering a signature drink might be a good compromise but then there's the issue of what if it's a vodka drink and someone wants whiskey etc...

    I'm tempted to just offer beer and wine and let them wander off to the hotel bar which I know they would do but I feel totally bad about it. So I keep ending back up at the answer of sucking it up and working extra shifts to pay for it.

    Any thoughts?


    Do not offer a cash bar, that's rude. It's too bad if his family "expects" hard alcohol. If you aren't providing it, they don't get it. It doesn't matter that they are flying over the ocean to see you. They should be happy with what you are hosting. It's rude to expect to pay for things that the host isn't providing.
    Think about it this way: imagine you are from the UK, you favor hard alcohol, and every wedding you've ever been to has a cash bar.  You travel 3500 miles to your nephew's wedding, totally expecting to pay for liquor and feeling fine with that.  Then you get there-- and the liquor is free! Wow!  Maybe it's a top shelf open bar, maybe it's just house liquor, but whatever the choices are-- it's free!

    Wouldn't you be pleasantly surprised?  Wouldn't you think that's the best wedding you've ever been to?  Wouldn't you feel like you were graciously thanked for traveling so far to attend the wedding of someone you love?  


    karimichele13 I live in the UK (grew up in Ireland) and almost all of the weddings I have been to have been open bar/ beer and wine only (The few cash bar weddings I have been to have been seriously side-eyed by most of the guests). Cash bars are rude no matter where you are- I'm glad you are insisting to host your guests properly! I just wanted to give you another UK/Ireland perspective in case he tries to convince you all British/Irish people want a cash bar.
  • So I've mentioned before that in my and FI's families/social circle cash bars are completely normal and almost none of our family/friends have been to an open bar. So I always assumed I'd have a cash bar even though I'd love to have enough money to have a full open bar all night. 
    The more I read about all the limited bar options I want to budget as much as we can to do beer/wine/sig drink. I'd love to be one of the first weddings most people have been to where all drinks are hosted! This limited bar option had me excited! But now when I've been talking to some people (very close family and WP who I talk about wedding things with) they're thinking I'm crazy that I would even think about doing more than open bar for cocktail hour. They're telling me no one expects it, everyone (we know) comes to weddings expecting to pay. Now I'm the one trying to explain etiquette and they just don't get it since no one we know does open bar and people like to be able to buy whatever they like to drink since that's what they're used to. I don't even know how to feel about this now. I'm trying to think about being a good host and no one gets it  :/
     




  • leese19 said:
    So I've mentioned before that in my and FI's families/social circle cash bars are completely normal and almost none of our family/friends have been to an open bar. So I always assumed I'd have a cash bar even though I'd love to have enough money to have a full open bar all night. 
    The more I read about all the limited bar options I want to budget as much as we can to do beer/wine/sig drink. I'd love to be one of the first weddings most people have been to where all drinks are hosted! This limited bar option had me excited! But now when I've been talking to some people (very close family and WP who I talk about wedding things with) they're thinking I'm crazy that I would even think about doing more than open bar for cocktail hour. They're telling me no one expects it, everyone (we know) comes to weddings expecting to pay. Now I'm the one trying to explain etiquette and they just don't get it since no one we know does open bar and people like to be able to buy whatever they like to drink since that's what they're used to. I don't even know how to feel about this now. I'm trying to think about being a good host and no one gets it  :/
    Just don't explain it. Let everyone be pleasantly surprised when they arrive :) I know the feeling, my hometown friends and family are telling me its insane too. But most of the weddings Ive been to have been open bar out of the region, so I'm kind of using that as my excuse to my mom. Like, they hosted me mom, I can't not host tehem. 

    image
  • You make a lot if sense, Grumbledore. But people will still find a good reason to have an open bar.
  • Ah, go with what fran1985 said and just don't bother to explain it anymore. No one can get mad at you for hosting an open bar and if they do they're just looking for anything to complain about. 

  • You make a lot if sense, Grumbledore. But people will still find a good reason to have an open bar.
    Probably because there's never a good reason NOT to host your guests properly - regardless of whether or not alcohol is involved.
  • Link to find some state laws and who is responsible. http://injury.findlaw.com/accident-injury-law/social-host-liability.html
    Social host doesn't mean what you think it means.  But nice try.
    Don't worry guys, I have the Wedding Police AND the Whambulance on speed dial!
  • ashleyepashleyep member
    First Comment 5 Love Its Name Dropper First Anniversary
    edited May 2014
    leese19 said:
    So I've mentioned before that in my and FI's families/social circle cash bars are completely normal and almost none of our family/friends have been to an open bar. So I always assumed I'd have a cash bar even though I'd love to have enough money to have a full open bar all night. 
    The more I read about all the limited bar options I want to budget as much as we can to do beer/wine/sig drink. I'd love to be one of the first weddings most people have been to where all drinks are hosted! This limited bar option had me excited! But now when I've been talking to some people (very close family and WP who I talk about wedding things with) they're thinking I'm crazy that I would even think about doing more than open bar for cocktail hour. They're telling me no one expects it, everyone (we know) comes to weddings expecting to pay. Now I'm the one trying to explain etiquette and they just don't get it since no one we know does open bar and people like to be able to buy whatever they like to drink since that's what they're used to. I don't even know how to feel about this now. I'm trying to think about being a good host and no one gets it  :/
    I'm the same way. Cash bars are common, I don't know of anyone that has a problem with them. I came on here and got in these same fights with the regs about it. But after spending enough time here, I started to understand why they're poor etiquette. I couldn't really get my parents or FI on board with hosting any more than the cocktail hour, so my attitude turned to "okay, I understand objectively why they're rude, so I won't argue that. But it's my day, and I know my guests, and I think they'll be okay with it. I can't do anything about it at this point." But after spending even MORE time on here, I'm really pushing FI to host beer and wine all night. It's important to me to do everything the "right" way and I don't want this to be a blemish on my wedding. That being said, I think we're compromising on hosted beer/wine and cash for liquor. I know it's not correct etiquette, I certainly will never argue that, but if that's what I have to do to get FI and my parents on board for hosting beer and wine all night, I'll do it.
    Anniversary
  • yup, totally understand @ashleyep. I truly understand the etiquette now but hey some people just don't follow it and for people like us and our circles it's ok! If I did have a cash bar I'm pretty sure no one is going to talk about me behind my back seeing as I/FI/our parents have been to most of our guests weddings and they had cash bars too! (some have open cocktail hour, hosted beer and wine but cash for hard alcohol) It truly is accepted in some circles. Before I came to TK I really thought only rich people had open bars because no one I knew had ever had one lol.
    But I do get that this is the Etiquette board so they're going to give advice based on proper etiquette.
     




  • I have never been to a wedding reception with a hosted bar, except a few kegs of beer.

    Where I live, everyone goes to weddings expecting to pay for there own drinks. 

    At my wedding were having a cash bar, though we will be supplying kegs of beer for the beer drinkers.  I argued with FI that's its not fair only the beer drinkers get free drinks (I don't drink beer, never have, never will) so we agreed to give out drink tickets to the non-beer drinkers. 

    we did the math to see how much a hosted bar would cost, and its just not affordable.  Having a limited bar, or no alcohol, is not an option for my family and FI friends.  My Dad, brothers, cousins, aunts and uncles wouldn't show up to my wedding if there was no alcohol, host or cash bar.   And same with FI's friends.

    You call can view it as rude as much as you want...but its just how its going to be for my wedding.

  • dbartness said:

    I have never been to a wedding reception with a hosted bar, except a few kegs of beer.

    Where I live, everyone goes to weddings expecting to pay for there own drinks. 

    At my wedding were having a cash bar, though we will be supplying kegs of beer for the beer drinkers.  I argued with FI that's its not fair only the beer drinkers get free drinks (I don't drink beer, never have, never will) so we agreed to give out drink tickets to the non-beer drinkers. 

    we did the math to see how much a hosted bar would cost, and its just not affordable.  Having a limited bar, or no alcohol, is not an option for my family and FI friends.  My Dad, brothers, cousins, aunts and uncles wouldn't show up to my wedding if there was no alcohol, host or cash bar.   And same with FI's friends.

    You call can view it as rude as much as you want...but its just how its going to be for my wedding.

    It's always an option, it's just not one you like. Have less people so you can afford to host them properly. Spend less in flowers/dj/decor/lighting/less expensive food/wedding dress etc so you can host your guests properly.

    You're right it is you're wedding but if you have chosen to spend your money (and show your guests that your priorities are elsewhere), then that choice is yours to make.

    Just because something has become regionally accepted since so many people lack manners, it doesn't mean it's ok.

    Good luck.
  • Thank you for your reply LDay2014.  You have given me things to think about, discuss with FI.

  • Jen4948Jen4948 member
    First Anniversary First Answer First Comment 5 Love Its
    dbartness said:

    I have never been to a wedding reception with a hosted bar, except a few kegs of beer.

    Where I live, everyone goes to weddings expecting to pay for there own drinks. The expectation is rude.  Even where you live, guests are not entitled to alcohol, whether or not they have to pay for it.

    At my wedding were having a cash bar, though we will be supplying kegs of beer for the beer drinkers.  I argued with FI that's its not fair only the beer drinkers get free drinks (I don't drink beer, never have, never will) so we agreed to give out drink tickets to the non-beer drinkers. 

    we did the math to see how much a hosted bar would cost, and its just not affordable.  Having a limited bar, or no alcohol, is not an option for my family and FI friends.  My Dad, brothers, cousins, aunts and uncles wouldn't show up to my wedding if there was no alcohol, host or cash bar.   And same with FI's friends.  They are the ones being rude.  It sounds like their reasons for attending weddings are to get access to alcohol, not to witness the union of the couple.

    You call can view it as rude as much as you want...but its just how its going to be for my wedding.  So why are you posting here?  We aren't going to condone your cash bar, and there are 26 pages in this thread explaining why.


  • People are still saying cash bars are not rude?

    image
    Visit The Knot! Visit The Knot!
    image
  • dbartness said:

    I have never been to a wedding reception with a hosted bar, except a few kegs of beer.

    Where I live, everyone goes to weddings expecting to pay for there own drinks. 

    At my wedding were having a cash bar, though we will be supplying kegs of beer for the beer drinkers.  I argued with FI that's its not fair only the beer drinkers get free drinks (I don't drink beer, never have, never will) so we agreed to give out drink tickets to the non-beer drinkers. 

    we did the math to see how much a hosted bar would cost, and its just not affordable.  Having a limited bar, or no alcohol, is not an option for my family and FI friends.  My Dad, brothers, cousins, aunts and uncles wouldn't show up to my wedding if there was no alcohol, host or cash bar.   And same with FI's friends.

    You call can view it as rude as much as you want...but its just how its going to be for my wedding.


    If my friends and family were only coming to my wedding for the alcohol and not to celebrate my marriage, I'd be happy for them not to come.

    ***SIB***
    Did you read this thread?  It has nothing to do with your family coming for the alcohol.  Jesus, it has to do with you as a host properly hosting your guests.  Whether that's a dry wedding, wine and beer, limited bar, or full open bar - those are all okay.

    What's not okay is EVER asking your guests to open up their wallets to attend your wedding.
  • LDay2014 said:
    dbartness said:

    I have never been to a wedding reception with a hosted bar, except a few kegs of beer.

    Where I live, everyone goes to weddings expecting to pay for there own drinks. 

    At my wedding were having a cash bar, though we will be supplying kegs of beer for the beer drinkers.  I argued with FI that's its not fair only the beer drinkers get free drinks (I don't drink beer, never have, never will) so we agreed to give out drink tickets to the non-beer drinkers. 

    we did the math to see how much a hosted bar would cost, and its just not affordable.  Having a limited bar, or no alcohol, is not an option for my family and FI friends.  My Dad, brothers, cousins, aunts and uncles wouldn't show up to my wedding if there was no alcohol, host or cash bar.   And same with FI's friends.

    You call can view it as rude as much as you want...but its just how its going to be for my wedding.


    If my friends and family were only coming to my wedding for the alcohol and not to celebrate my marriage, I'd be happy for them not to come.

    ***SIB***
    Did you read this thread?  It has nothing to do with your family coming for the alcohol.  Jesus, it has to do with you as a host properly hosting your guests.  Whether that's a dry wedding, wine and beer, limited bar, or full open bar - those are all okay.

    What's not okay is EVER asking your guests to open up their wallets to attend your wedding.

    What the what? @dbartness said her family and friends would not show up to her wedding if there was no alcohol. I said, I'd rather not have those type of people come to my wedding. The people I want at my wedding are there because they love my fiancé and I, not just for the alcohol.

    And my name isn't Jesus, it's Gerbertmcway.

  • LDay2014 said:




    dbartness said:

    I have never been to a wedding reception with a hosted bar, except a few kegs of beer.

    Where I live, everyone goes to weddings expecting to pay for there own drinks. 

    At my wedding were having a cash bar, though we will be supplying kegs of beer for the beer drinkers.  I argued with FI that's its not fair only the beer drinkers get free drinks (I don't drink beer, never have, never will) so we agreed to give out drink tickets to the non-beer drinkers. 

    we did the math to see how much a hosted bar would cost, and its just not affordable.  Having a limited bar, or no alcohol, is not an option for my family and FI friends.  My Dad, brothers, cousins, aunts and uncles wouldn't show up to my wedding if there was no alcohol, host or cash bar.   And same with FI's friends.

    You call can view it as rude as much as you want...but its just how its going to be for my wedding.



    If my friends and family were only coming to my wedding for the alcohol and not to celebrate my marriage, I'd be happy for them not to come.

    ***SIB***
    Did you read this thread?  It has nothing to do with your family coming for the alcohol.  Jesus, it has to do with you as a host properly hosting your guests.  Whether that's a dry wedding, wine and beer, limited bar, or full open bar - those are all okay.

    What's not okay is EVER asking your guests to open up their wallets to attend your wedding.





    What the what? @dbartness said her family and friends would not show up to her wedding if there was no alcohol. I said, I'd rather not have those type of people come to my wedding. The people I want at my wedding are there because they love my fiancé and I, not just for the alcohol.

    And my name isn't Jesus, it's Gerbertmcway.

    Lol
    I'm not sure what cliff I jumped off of there. I'm sorry. Clearly I shouldn't knot before coffee because I don't read or understand things...
  • dbartness said:

    I have never been to a wedding reception with a hosted bar, except a few kegs of beer.

    Where I live, everyone goes to weddings expecting to pay for there own drinks. 

    At my wedding were having a cash bar, though we will be supplying kegs of beer for the beer drinkers.  I argued with FI that's its not fair only the beer drinkers get free drinks (I don't drink beer, never have, never will) so we agreed to give out drink tickets to the non-beer drinkers. 

    we did the math to see how much a hosted bar would cost, and its just not affordable.  Having a limited bar, or no alcohol, is not an option for my family and FI friends.  My Dad, brothers, cousins, aunts and uncles wouldn't show up to my wedding if there was no alcohol, host or cash bar.   And same with FI's friends.

    You call can view it as rude as much as you want...but its just how its going to be for my wedding.

    Reread what you wrote about how your family and his friends wouldn't show up if you didn't provide alcohol for them.
    There is something very wrong with this picture if you need to entice/bribe your guests to show up to your wedding.

    Question, though. If they all refused to show up if you didn't provide cake, but couldn't afford cake, would you charge them for cake?

    image
  • I have never been to a wedding reception with a hosted bar, except a few kegs of beer.

    Where I live, everyone goes to weddings expecting to pay for there own drinks. 

    At my wedding were having a cash bar, though we will be supplying kegs of beer for the beer drinkers.  I argued with FI that's its not fair only the beer drinkers get free drinks (I don't drink beer, never have, never will) so we agreed to give out drink tickets to the non-beer drinkers. 

    we did the math to see how much a hosted bar would cost, and its just not affordable.  Having a limited bar, or no alcohol, is not an option for my family and FI friends.  My Dad, brothers, cousins, aunts and uncles wouldn't show up to my wedding if there was no alcohol, host or cash bar.   And same with FI's friends.

    You call can view it as rude as much as you want...but its just how its going to be for my wedding.

    Reread what you wrote about how your family and his friends wouldn't show up if you didn't provide alcohol for them. There is something very wrong with this picture if you need to entice/bribe your guests to show up to your wedding. Question, though. If they all refused to show up if you didn't provide cake, but couldn't afford cake, would you charge them for cake?

    YES! I don't understand why alcohol seems to be the holy grail of weddings. I know I personally would grab cake before alcohol (usually lol) and would be sad if someone didn't have a wedding cake but I'd cry myself a bridge and get over it. I mean, cake can make people fat and all sugar high, but would you charge them so they don't get cake wasted at your wedding? Hell no. Now, why when the word alcohol is substituted for cake people suddenly go crazy?

    I think he world needs more alcohol to deal with this bullshit.

    After 6 years and 2 boys, finally tying the knot on October 27th, 2013!

  • perdonamiperdonami member
    First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its First Comment
    edited May 2014

    Look, I'm from the notoriously boozy state of Wisconsin, and yeah, some people would rather pay for alcohol themselves than go to a "dry" wedding. But those people can go jump in a lake. They're being shitty if they think getting buzzed is more important than celebrating the marriage. If they don't care about the couple, they can skip the wedding and go to a damn bar. If booze is so important to them, they can (and will) bring a flask. 
    Not at my wedding unfortunately. We are hosting different types of beers and wines, but no hard liquor. My family has a bit of a drinking problem and can't just be happy with what is being hosted and has been threatening to bring flasks.. I wouldn't care but our venue has a very strict policy on no outside food or drink and we can get a $500 fine per violation. I also refuse to allow a partial cash bar. 

    Still not hosting hard liquor (FI won't let me as he doesn't want to spend any more money) and I am hoping my guests will appreciate what is being hosted and not smuggle any flasks in. 
  • perdonami said:

    Look, I'm from the notoriously boozy state of Wisconsin, and yeah, some people would rather pay for alcohol themselves than go to a "dry" wedding. But those people can go jump in a lake. They're being shitty if they think getting buzzed is more important than celebrating the marriage. If they don't care about the couple, they can skip the wedding and go to a damn bar. If booze is so important to them, they can (and will) bring a flask. 
    Not at my wedding unfortunately. We are hosting different types of beers and wines, but no hard liquor. My family has a bit of a drinking problem and can't just be happy with what is being hosted and has been threatening to bring flasks.. I wouldn't care but our venue has a very strict policy on no outside food or drink and we can get a $500 fine per violation. I also refuse to allow a partial cash bar. 

    Still not hosting hard liquor (FI won't let me as he doesn't want to spend any more money) and I am hoping my guests will appreciate what is being hosted and not smuggle any flasks in. 
    If they do, it is on them. Your guests are being the rude ones. And it sucks, but I think you should be able to show that you can't control your guests and so it isn't really your fault. 

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
    image
  • perdonami said:

    Look, I'm from the notoriously boozy state of Wisconsin, and yeah, some people would rather pay for alcohol themselves than go to a "dry" wedding. But those people can go jump in a lake. They're being shitty if they think getting buzzed is more important than celebrating the marriage. If they don't care about the couple, they can skip the wedding and go to a damn bar. If booze is so important to them, they can (and will) bring a flask. 
    Not at my wedding unfortunately. We are hosting different types of beers and wines, but no hard liquor. My family has a bit of a drinking problem and can't just be happy with what is being hosted and has been threatening to bring flasks.. I wouldn't care but our venue has a very strict policy on no outside food or drink and we can get a $500 fine per violation. I also refuse to allow a partial cash bar. 

    Still not hosting hard liquor (FI won't let me as he doesn't want to spend any more money) and I am hoping my guests will appreciate what is being hosted and not smuggle any flasks in. 
    If they do, it is on them. Your guests are being the rude ones. And it sucks, but I think you should be able to show that you can't control your guests and so it isn't really your fault. 
    I totally agree with the above! And @perdonami, this will probably get me in trouble here, but I would absolutely pass on the fine to the offending parties in the event that you did get slapped with one.
    image
    This baby knows exactly how I feel
  • perdonamiperdonami member
    First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its First Comment
    edited May 2014
    I totally agree with the above! And @perdonami, this will probably get me in trouble here, but I would absolutely pass on the fine to the offending parties in the event that you did get slapped with one.
    Yeah, I thought about that too but if they don't agree to pay then fine my FMIL is stuck with the bill because her credit card is on file with the venue and then we will still be paying it (which is why I keep arguing to just offer it, its not like we won't end up paying for it one way or another). As of right now, the DJ offered to help enforce no flasks if he sees them and we are spreading the word to some of our guests who want to bring flasks. 
  • I went to a wedding recently where the bar was all cash aside from two beer kegs that ran out at around 9 pm. Even soda was cash. It was really uncomfortable to watch the grooms grandpa walk up to the bar and have to pay for a coke. Aside from that the only things that werent cash were water and lemonade. It was very odd. The overall wedding was fun, but I couldnt believe that they didnt even host wine? I dont drink beer, and even if I had it would have probably run out sooner. So I didn't drink the entire night. It kind of made for a strange wedding experience.
This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards