Problems father/daughter dance now..

Kauris · May 2014

I agree that postponing might be best. I can tell you when we had to move our wedding date back, our vendors were 100% helpful and on board, even with the deposits that we had already paid.

Also, many, many hugs of support for you.

ETA: @phira, glad you liked it, it helped me out a long time ago and I go back to it from time to time when I need reminding.

kitty8403 · May 2014

perdonami said:

kitty8403 said:

Do you want to dance with anyone? If not, that's your right. If you want to dance with somebody else, why not do a fun dance with your aisle escort instead?
Is your mother in the picture? If so, would you like to do a non-traditional fast dance with her?

Unfortunately, my mother also suffers from addiction and has not been in the picture for the past 15 years. Which interestingly enough I have been hounded about as well. Family members seem to be very concerned that I extend her an invite. Her presence would cause a lot of upset to my guests as she has done a lot of harm, especially to my father. I asked my father if he would be okay with her attending the wedding, and he said, "of course, its your day." Then he proceeded to a full blown rant about all the horrible things she has done. Yeah, I don't think he is okay with it and I could care less either way.

Out of respect for my father she will not be invited.

*Hugs* I'm sorry you aren't getting the family support you need. Hope you and your FI can hash things out so he understands that he needs to have your back.

Don't feel like you have to celebrate the same way other people do. Maybe it's time to add in some ideas from your or your FI's cultural backgrounds, or to just start new family traditions.

ETA: We have a couple of family members like this, who are also not invited. I heard yesterday that one called up out of the blue after no contact for years. We think somebody might have let the wedding slip. Sorry, but no. Extending an invite would hurt other people who are close to us, and we won't do that. Stick to your guns.

perdonami · May 2014

Interestingly enough I work in addiction as a substance abuse counselor and some of my co-workers have encouraged me to attend al-anon. Its funny how I help people in recovery everyday and help those who have loved ones suffer with addiction everyday but can't seem to help myself.

Fiance felt guilty and tried to talk again this morning. He stuck by his guns that its only 30 seconds. "He's 60!" FI cries. I calmly explained that I always wondered what my life might have been like if when we were taken into foster care if our parents never won custody back. All the beatings (by my mother only), the starving, the neglect, the loneliness.. I said what if I had parents like yours? Doesn't every child have the right to grow up in a safe and happy home?

FI started to say how he just feels really bad for my dad, that he genuinely likes him. That's fine, go ahead and like him but its not okay that you don't publicly have my back, that you need to tell people to quit when they badger me to perform these traditions to placate others. He said I won't bring it up anymore. I said, I need you to understand and respect my feelings. He shouldn't be on my aunt's side. He continues to agree with her opinion but promises not to publicly support such opinions from my family anymore he will just remain silent. I need him to publicly support me.

I am hurt because he agrees with my aunt. I am dying alone on this hill.

KeptInStitches · May 2014

My heart hurts so much for you.

perdonami · May 2014

Thank you

Hug received!

@keptinstitches

RebeccaFlower · May 2014

Did you talk to you FI about how serious of a betrayal it is that he doesn't understand your feelings on this? You should NOT be dying on this hill alone. Do you realize that that is a major problem? I promise I'm not trying to be an asshole.

RebeccaB88 · May 2014

RebeccaFlower said:

Did you talk to you FI about how serious of a betrayal it is that he doesn't understand your feelings on this? You should NOT be dying on this hill alone. Do you realize that that is a major problem? I promise I'm not trying to be an asshole.

@perdonami, I so hate this all for you. My heart hurts for you as well. But truly, honestly...do you see this as a betrayal? (I think most of us here do, but this is your relationship and we don't know the reality of it.) If you do, do you want to live the rest of your life with someone who betrayed you like this?

I know it feels like you are alone on this hill. But, as far away as we all are, we are here and some of us have climbed that same hill before. @phira is so right in her assessment. And really, no one who has been in your situation can really grasp the intensity and pain of it. So he probably doesn't really get it, but he can sure as hell do a lot better with it than he is now.

I would consider at least putting things on hold until you sort out your feelings about the situation, him, and what you REALLY want for your future. Find a counselor or therapist to help you.

If nothing else, doing this might be the kick in the ass he so desperately needs.

arrippa · May 2014

I am so sorry that you are going through this. The one person who should have your back doesn't. This is the hill that you should die on.

MrsMack10612 · May 2014

I'm not one to pull the red flag card, but the fact that he still doesn't have your back and thinks that remaining silent is sufficient really bothers me.

That he thinks just because "he's a nice guy" is enough to negate everything you went through is wrong.

Honestly, until he can see and support your POV on this, I'm not sure I would marry him without a boatload of counseling beforehand.

RebeccaFlower · May 2014

MrsMack10612 said:

I'm not one to pull the red flag card, but the fact that he still doesn't have your back and thinks that remaining silent is sufficient really bothers me.

That he thinks just because "he's a nice guy" is enough to negate everything you went through is wrong.

Honestly, until he can see and support your POV on this, I'm not sure I would marry him without a boatload of counseling beforehand.

I have to piggyback this again. I came back to this thread (I normally don't) because I feel so strongly about this. I am also not somehow who quickly throws out the 'postpone the wedding' or even seek therapy line, but the fact that your FI doesn't even back down when it's just the two of you speaks volumes to me.

Trust me, there are times H & I disagree strongly, but depending on the situation we keep our mouths shut until we are home to hash it out and do not throw each other under the bus in front of anyone. This takes practice, but your FI needs to at least be aware.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

perdonami said:

Interestingly enough I work in addiction as a substance abuse counselor and some of my co-workers have encouraged me to attend al-anon. Its funny how I help people in recovery everyday and help those who have loved ones suffer with addiction everyday but can't seem to help myself.

Fiance felt guilty and tried to talk again this morning. He stuck by his guns that its only 30 seconds. "He's 60!" FI cries. I calmly explained that I always wondered what my life might have been like if when we were taken into foster care if our parents never won custody back. All the beatings (by my mother only), the starving, the neglect, the loneliness.. I said what if I had parents like yours? Doesn't every child have the right to grow up in a safe and happy home?

FI started to say how he just feels really bad for my dad, that he genuinely likes him. That's fine, go ahead and like him but its not okay that you don't publicly have my back, that you need to tell people to quit when they badger me to perform these traditions to placate others. He said I won't bring it up anymore. I said, I need you to understand and respect my feelings. He shouldn't be on my aunt's side. He continues to agree with her opinion but promises not to publicly support such opinions from my family anymore he will just remain silent. I need him to publicly support me.

I am hurt because he agrees with my aunt. I am dying alone on this hill.

You not only NEED him to publicly support you, you DESERVE him to publicly support you. And you deserve for him to call up your aunt and say, 'Look, I royally fucked up and I was horribly out of line and OMG I had no right, and there will be NO father-daughter dance, and I can't believe what a jackhole I was.'

If he won't do that...I think you have some tough decisions to make.

@phira gave a wonderful commentary on being on YOUR side of the fence and having the crappy parents. I've told you before, and I'll reiterate, my DH is on y'all's side, too, with the shitty parents -- verbal, emotional, physical abuse; alcoholism and drug use that fueled it; horrible neglect, etc.

NEVER. ONCE. Not once, not ever, not even for a yoctosecond (one-septillionth of a second) did I EVER consider questioning his decision. He knew his parents; I didn't. He knew the hell that had been inflicted on him as a child; I didn't. He knew the utter fuckwits they were; I didn't.

He made his decision and I backed that play, because that's what partners do. It worries me that your FI won't back your play.

And you're right -- agreeing to not disagree with you publicly is not at all the same as agreeing with you publicly.

phira · May 2014

My partner and @hisgirlfriday13 are both examples of people who come from non-broken families who whole-heartedly support their partners who come from broken families. I'm happy to ask my partner for advice on how to talk to your fiance. Like, what kinds of examples or metaphors you could use.

OliveOilsMom · May 2014

It sounds like part of the problem is that he knows your dad now. He didn't know the horrible father you had growing up and you do. Past actions by people, no matter how much they change - stick with you. But FI never saw that guy.

Did you ask FI to go to counseling with you? Since you work as a substance abuse counselor, what would you tell a couple if you were presented with the same situation to help a couple work out?

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

phira said:

My partner and @hisgirlfriday13 are both examples of people who come from non-broken families who whole-heartedly support their partners who come from broken families. I'm happy to ask my partner for advice on how to talk to your fiance. Like, what kinds of examples or metaphors you could use.

Awww, thanks! That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

And I echo @phira -- if you want concrete examples or metaphors or anything, please just ask us.

When I told my parents that DH's parents not only weren't in his life, but weren't being invited to the wedding, my mother said, 'But they're his PARENTS, they'll be so sad to miss his wedding, isn't he going to regret that?'

I said, (and I'm actually quoting myself): 'Mom, contributing DNA through sperm or pushing a baby out your vag doesn't make you a parent. It makes you a biological vessel of reproduction. Asshole parents who abuse their kids deserve to be cut off because actions have fucking consequences and if you don't want your kids to ignore you then you should have thought of that when you were being a fucking jackhole parent and beating the shit out of your kid. DH isn't inviting his parents because he doesn't speak to his parents and this topic is closed to discussion, now and forever.'

She got quiet for a second and said, 'OK, he's not inviting them.'

As we got closer to the wedding, DH worried that people would ask him where his parents were, and my mom went into protective Mama Bear action and spread the word through our side of the guest list, 'HisGirl's FI's parents aren't in the picture, his grandmother raised him, she's coming,' and NO ONE asked him about his parents being there.

Other than his fucking battleaxe of a bat-shit crazy old lady grandmother who said, 'It would have been so nice if your dad were here. I wish you'd invited him.'

DH's BSC grandmother and your aunt are in the same playbook.

perdonami · May 2014

So, I just made a lunch appointment with my aunt for this Sunday to talk about why my father will not be participating in any of these traditions and that I need her to respect my decision (she doesn't know that this is the purpose of the lunch date). Honestly, I am already regretting it. Are family is so small and I have always been the outcast and this may sound pathetic but I have such a need to belong. I am so tired of having strained relationships with everyone, but I just can't abide these unspoken family rules that have been set up.

I talked with my supervisor, also a drug counselor, and he 100% had my back. He said that my aunt and my brother are making it more about them and not about me on my wedding day. He said that my father made a choice to not be present in my life and that these are the consequences of such a decision. He also stated the same things that you lovely ladies stated that if fiance can't support me on this and if I have any doubts as a result, not to go through with the wedding until I was sure.

He suggested I take fiance to couple's counseling with a therapist who has a background in substance abuse so that FI can get a better idea about what is going on. Although, if you ladies have any ideas on how to help fiance better understand my situation by all means please do share.

@oliveoilsmom If I had a couple come to me with a similar situation I will gently but firmly encourage the one with the addicted family to attend AL-Anon meetings immediately and then encourage her partner to do the same as way to not only show his support for her but to help him gain perspective on the situation. Regardless of what fiance did, I would encourage her to attend Al-anon. I think its time I looked up some of these meetings in my area.

@Rebecca Flower I don't think you are coming off as an asshole and you are exactly correct with your assessment. I do feel betrayed and that is why I am so upset and was crying last night and then again this morning. Because my fiance is NOT on my side and I am hurt. I expect my brother and my aunt to be against me, but not him. Its so bad that I don't even want to go home tonight.

EDIT:

@hisgirlfriday13 I wanted to let you know that I have read your posts on my threads and on another person's thread about a similar situation, and just wanted to say that you seem to be such an awesome person. I think its wonderful how supportive and understanding you are with your DH's family situation. He is very lucky to have you.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

Aww, thanks.

You have some tough choices ahead of you. I am so sorry you're going through this. But you DESERVE unconditional support from your partner. It's non-negotiable.

Go to Al-Anon. Find someone to talk to. Go to couple's counselling. Worry about those things first. The wedding can take a backseat.

KGold80 · May 2014

I don't have any advice that hasn't already been given, but I am just so so so sorry that you are going through this. I really hope your fiancé is able to provide you with the love and support you need.

perdonami · May 2014

I may be getting off early tonight so I am planning on trying to talk with him again about it as I plan to do with my aunt this Sunday.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

perdonami said:
I may be getting off early tonight so I am planning on trying to talk with him again about it as I plan to do with my aunt this Sunday.

Good luck!! I'll be praying for you.

perdonami · May 2014

Finally am seeing eye to eye with FI. He understands now and not only will he not push it anymore just because he feels sorry for my father, but he also will tell my aunt or brother or whoever starts badgering me about it to quit it.

Admittedly, I have not confronted aunt yet... I canceled our lunch date twice now.. I'd much rather just never to talk to her again about anything, but its time I put my big girl pants on and have a talk with her. I just am so tired of fighting about this.. its so unnecessary.

chibiyui · May 2014

perdonami said:

Finally am seeing eye to eye with FI. He understands now and not only will he not push it anymore just because he feels sorry for my father, but he also will tell my aunt or brother or whoever starts badgering me about it to quit it.

Admittedly, I have not confronted aunt yet... I canceled our lunch date twice now.. I'd much rather just never to talk to her again about anything, but its time I put my big girl pants on and have a talk with her. I just am so tired of fighting about this.. its so unnecessary.

I'm glad your FI has come around. I hope your talk with your aunt goes well, as reasonably can be expected for given value of well at least.

phira · May 2014

Honestly, I wouldn't bother meeting with your aunt to talk about it. I'd just mercilessly bean dip her/hang up/leave when she tries to talk about it.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

I'm with @phira. Actions have consequences. Her actions were to push too much. The consequences are that she gets cut out of your life.

perdonami · May 2014

It may be futile to have a talk with my aunt, but I feel like I need to tell her that the problem is my fathers choice to abuse substances and that she needs to respect my stance on not participating in father/daughter traditions.

It's also the only way I can walk away from having a relationtionship with her should she continue to disrespect me. But I understand where you ladies are coming from.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

perdonami said:
It may be futile to have a talk with my aunt, but I feel like I need to tell her that the problem is my fathers choice to abuse substances and that she needs to respect my stance on not participating in father/daughter traditions.

It's also the only way I can walk away from having a relationtionship with her should she continue to disrespect me. But I understand where you ladies are coming from.

Then write her a letter. Put it all out there in black and white and in writing. Then the ball is in her court.

RebeccaB88 · May 2014

Ditto HGF. Put it in a letter. That way you can revise it as necessary so it says exactly what you want to say, and you won't get upset or flustered when she tries to argue with you. You don't need to see her to state your point.

Jen4948 · May 2014

perdonami said:

Finally am seeing eye to eye with FI. He understands now and not only will he not push it anymore just because he feels sorry for my father, but he also will tell my aunt or brother or whoever starts badgering me about it to quit it.

Admittedly, I have not confronted aunt yet... I canceled our lunch date twice now.. I'd much rather just never to talk to her again about anything, but its time I put my big girl pants on and have a talk with her. I just am so tired of fighting about this.. its so unnecessary.

Great update. I agree with writing a letter to your aunt to make clear that the subject is closed.

perdonami · May 2014

UPDATE:

So, against better advice, I have finally had lunch with my aunt and explained why I will not be participating in the father/daughter traditions and that she needs to respect that.

She said that she knew he had a substance abuse problem but she didn't understand how traumatic the effects were. I told her its something that I have come to peace with and that there are no grudges but I just will not participate in any pretentious shows indicating that he was a father to me. But, he is welcome to come as a guest.

She expressed a lot of guilt for not stepping in and taking me and my brother in. I said, its besides the point now. I just need her to respect my feelings as this is my wedding and I will not be badgered anymore about this topic. We ended on really good terms.

Had the same conversation with my brother and he gingerly asked me who was in my bridal party. I told him that one of are family friends, really a brother to us, will be standing with me. I asked him, "would also like to stand with me?" He happily accepted.

So, I think this all turned out okay. My cousin will be escorting me down the aisle, I have an uneven bridal party, and my bridal attendants are co-ed but I could care less. There is absolutely nothing traditional about this wedding except that I will be wearing the stereotypical white wedding dress. And I am okay with that. I'm just glad everyone else finally is too.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

I'm glad things worked out! Happy for you.

perdonami · May 2014

@hisgirlfriday13

Thank you so much for your support and advice. It really helped me out a lot.

There were times where I felt so alone and at times a bit selfish. But coming here for advice helped me realize I wasn't and I shouldn't feel that way.

Your hubby is one lucky guy.

Problems father/daughter dance now..

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