PMS or Valid Anger

VulgarGirl · May 2014

Maggie0829 said:

lyndausvi said:

Maggie0829 said:

lyndausvi said:

I must say I married a man-child. I knew that when I married him. I knew from the beginning he is not one for housework. He will do it, it's just on his time not mine. Doesn't help he works outside the house 7 days a week 10+ hours a day. I on the other hand work from home 7 hours a day 5 days a week. I see it more so it bothers me more.

When I start feeling overwhelmed or unappreciated I just talk to him. He normally gets back on track. I will be working in the morning and all the sudden I hear the vacuum running. I will go upstairs and see he started the laundry (which actually stress me out because he isn't good, bu whatever, he's trying).

He is not a mind reader. You need to just talk to him. Not yell. Talk.

LOL! It stresses me out as well when H tries to be helpful and starts a load of laundry. All I can think of is "what mixture of clothes did he just put in there and hopefully he doesn't dry things that shouldn't be dried."

YES. He puts red shirts, white shirts and brown towels along with a bunch of other stuff that overloads the washer. IT DRIVES ME CRAZY.

We have a four bag laundry sorter. Whites, non-dryables, pants/underwear/sweats, t-shirts. Everyday I go to throw clothes in the appropriate bags and I see BLACK socks in the WHITE bin. I ask him why and he says well that is where I put all my white socks so I figured all socks go in that bag. Um, no, it is call the "whites" bag for a reason!!

Wait...does he think you're doing laundry by clothing type? Like first we'll wash the shirts, then our pants, socks for last?

I'm gonna admit, I sucked ass at sorting clothes. Everything got washed in cold, everything got dried, and I never used bleached. FI put a stop to this and bought one of those sorter ones (it's got three bags), and it's clearly labeled and that fed into my need to organize and I'm very good at separating now.

JCbride2015 · May 2014

KatieinBkln said:

JCbride2015 said:
Yeah this is important. Lately my technique is thus:
1) Tell Fi, "after this TV show is over, we should do a sweep of the apartment and pick up Things X,Y, and Z; we need to unload the dishwasher; and fold these clothes." Give him fair warning.
2) TV show ends. I tell Fi "Let's start cleaning" and he says "sure" but sometimes doesn't move.
3) So I get up and start cleaning-- but I only clean "my" mess, not his. I'll put away any of my clothes that are around, put in a load of my own laundry, whatever. Fi gets his ass in gear when he sees all the remaining mess is his. Then once he's up and moving around and helping, he's already in gear for the "both of ours" messes like dishes, so we do that together .

SIB

Will you come over to my house and "get us started" on cleaning up? Once we start we're good, but damn if neither FI nor I want to "initiate." We are the worst at adulting.

Hahaha @Katieinbkln adulting is hard. I really do find once you get started it's much easier.

pinkshorts27 · May 2014

I accidently put this on the wrong thread. I'm an idiot, but here is what I have to say:

I lived with FI this summer and it was an adjustment. He may feel like he has no say and is rebelling.

I would be frustrated with him. After discussion, FI and I figured out that I need to divvy out chores. When I ask him to do something (always a request, never an order) I give him a timeline I am expecting it done by and then he feels in control. We negotiate if he has something he wants to do instead or if he needs more time or if noticed I slacked on my chores. A few examples:

-"Hey honey, I cooked tonight and just want to relax, can you do dishes tonight?"

-"Hey, yard needs done. I was planning on doing the bathroom, can you rake by the end of the weekend?"

I think this is his problem and a couple problem. I think he needs to adjust his attitude and priorities, but you can probably approach it differently. But you need to figure out what works for you.

phira · May 2014

One thing I'm worried about is that there are no repercussions for him NOT doing his share. Giving him deadlines or playing chicken with the dishes is ineffective; he can (and has!) missed deadlines, and playing chore chicken leaves everyone miserable. I've learned from living with roommates that if no one does the dishes, eventually SOMEONE will have to do the dishes or else there are ants in the sink.

pinkshorts27 · May 2014

phira said:

One thing I'm worried about is that there are no repercussions for him NOT doing his share. Giving him deadlines or playing chicken with the dishes is ineffective; he can (and has!) missed deadlines, and playing chore chicken leaves everyone miserable. I've learned from living with roommates that if no one does the dishes, eventually SOMEONE will have to do the dishes or else there are ants in the sink.

You may be right, but I wonder if he is "rebelling" per say, because he feels like he doesn't get any say. I was just giving the example of the problem in our relationship and how we fixed it, doesn't mean it will work for everyone. I think she should sit down and talk with him.

phira · May 2014

pinkshorts27 said:

phira said:

One thing I'm worried about is that there are no repercussions for him NOT doing his share. Giving him deadlines or playing chicken with the dishes is ineffective; he can (and has!) missed deadlines, and playing chore chicken leaves everyone miserable. I've learned from living with roommates that if no one does the dishes, eventually SOMEONE will have to do the dishes or else there are ants in the sink.

You may be right, but I wonder if he is "rebelling" per say, because he feels like he doesn't get any say. I was just giving the example of the problem in our relationship and how we fixed it, doesn't mean it will work for everyone. I think she should sit down and talk with him.

True. It might be more helpful to ask, "When can you do the yard?" which gives him choice (he can choose when to do the yard) although he doesn't really have a choice about doing the yard. Or, "We need to clean today. Would you rather do the dishes or clean the bathroom?" so that he needs to clean NOW, but he can choose what to clean.

VulgarGirl · May 2014

phira said:

daria24 said:

I'm having valid anger just reading that.

Look, sometimes we all "fail" as partners. Our bathroom should have been cleaned 3 weeks ago and it hasn't happened yet. Sometimes you have to let things go.

But when a partner is choosing video games/watching tv/laziness every single day instead of the numerous things that need to be done (taking care of a sick pet!), then it's time to have a come to Yeezus meeting (as in, your Fi is acting like Kanye the Diva, and needs to get his shit together).

Make a list of things that need to get done, with a due date. Divide the list. If he isn't getting his part done, it's time to reconsider your relationship.

This is absolutely true. Either things need to change, or the relationship needs to end. Please don't think that if you love him enough, that's enough to make it worth staying if he doesn't change.

A friend of mine ended an engagement/relationship when her fiance behaved similarly. Like, he'd skip out on plans because of gaming. And he'd say he'd be home by [time] and he'd call when he was supposed to be home saying he was still several hours away and wasn't done gaming with friends. All. The. Time. And after one particularly bad event (she was hospitalized and he didn't understand why she wanted him to come to the hospital to stay with her for a bit), she finally realized, "Hey. I don't want to keep doing this forever."

I also want to point out: PMS doesn't make you get angry about stuff that isn't anger-worthy. It just makes it harder to suppress anger. For me, it just lowers my bullshit-threshold.

A little off topic. We had a young guy working in our shop for a bit once, and he wasn't doing his job so I told him to ya know, stop screwing around and do your fucking job (but nicer) and his reaction was "Chill out, you're like PMSing" and my response was "No, if I were PMSing I would've taken you out back and shot you already". He did not last long.

phira · May 2014

MagicInk said:

phira said:

daria24 said:

I'm having valid anger just reading that.

Look, sometimes we all "fail" as partners. Our bathroom should have been cleaned 3 weeks ago and it hasn't happened yet. Sometimes you have to let things go.

But when a partner is choosing video games/watching tv/laziness every single day instead of the numerous things that need to be done (taking care of a sick pet!), then it's time to have a come to Yeezus meeting (as in, your Fi is acting like Kanye the Diva, and needs to get his shit together).

Make a list of things that need to get done, with a due date. Divide the list. If he isn't getting his part done, it's time to reconsider your relationship.

This is absolutely true. Either things need to change, or the relationship needs to end. Please don't think that if you love him enough, that's enough to make it worth staying if he doesn't change.

A friend of mine ended an engagement/relationship when her fiance behaved similarly. Like, he'd skip out on plans because of gaming. And he'd say he'd be home by [time] and he'd call when he was supposed to be home saying he was still several hours away and wasn't done gaming with friends. All. The. Time. And after one particularly bad event (she was hospitalized and he didn't understand why she wanted him to come to the hospital to stay with her for a bit), she finally realized, "Hey. I don't want to keep doing this forever."

I also want to point out: PMS doesn't make you get angry about stuff that isn't anger-worthy. It just makes it harder to suppress anger. For me, it just lowers my bullshit-threshold.

A little off topic. We had a young guy working in our shop for a bit once, and he wasn't doing his job so I told him to ya know, stop screwing around and do your fucking job (but nicer) and his reaction was "Chill out, you're like PMSing" and my response was "No, if I were PMSing I would've taken you out back and shot you already". He did not last long.

I have legit NEVER been told to stop PMSing when I have actually had PMS. It's always code for, "Stop being an irrational, overly emotional woman." And it's like, no, this is my regular angry mood.

VulgarGirl · May 2014

@phira the only person who has ever told me I was PMSing (or asked if I was) has been FI. Because she knows me and I get super clingy and crying when I PMS which is not normal behavior. Plus we are all synced up in this house. Oh yeah, good times.

FiancB · May 2014

I think this is a struggle that a lot of couples go through, trying to even out household chores. Like someone else said, I tend to do general chores (I don't work much) but won't pick up his messes and it kinda drops the hint.

BUT I would be really super pissed if an important vet appointment was blown off for a game. I get kinda crabby if FI is playing a game instead of keeping me company while I cook. That is a whole different story, and I can confidently say that that isn't something FI would do.

jdluvr06 · May 2014

Did the kitty make it to the vet?

climbingsingle · May 2014

I'm sorry. This sounds SO much like my ex-husband. And this is one of the big reasons he's an ex. He played video games all the time and blew off a lot of things. As a PP said, this behavior will not change. Don't expect that you can change him/it. <---- and that was a very painful lesson I had to learn.

LadyMillil · May 2014

loveislouder said:

@MobKaz damned if I do for sure lol. I only raked because we were getting side-eyed by our neighbours. I've left the dishes in the sink for 2 weeks (just the ones that can't go in the dishwasher). It sounds gross, but he'll get the hint I hope.

Don't count on it! DH is terrible at doing dishes. In our last place we didn't have a dishwasher and I refused to do dishes hoping he'd get the hint. We had containers growing mold, no clean dishes, it smelled, and there was no available counter space and he still didn't do them. Now we have a dishwasher and a chore list. Dishes that can't go in the dishwasher have a wash deadline of dinner the next night.

DH needs a chore reminder with the chore list, so I text him when I'm eating lunch to check the chore board.

NavyBlue143 · May 2014

jdluvr06 said:
Valid anger. FI an I went through a period like that when we first moved in together. He would just sit around and play on the computer. I admittedly didn't handle it well at first. I threatened to smash his compute with a hammer if he didn't get off his ass and do what he said he would. Lol. We did eventually sit down and talk about it and he is so much better now. I think he does more housework then I do now.

Are we twins? I totally threatened to smash H's computer not too long after we married because he got Borderlands 2 and became obsessed. It doesn't help that his computer desk is on the back wall of our room so not only was his back to me, but he was always in the very back of the house. He also usually had noise cancelling headphones on.

Once I stood behind him screaming just to see if he could hear me. He couldn't. So I kicked his chair which got his attention. That's when I threatened to smash the damn computer because I was sick of being ignored when we were newlyweds (and hadn't lived together beforehand) and not only was I doing all the housework, but he spent all evening every day with his back to me unable to hear me if I needed him. I told him I'd be damned if he had a mistress 3 months into marriage.

He got much better after that. I'm easy going about his gaming habits, but a woman has her limits!

jdluvr06 · May 2014

NavyBlue143 said:

Valid anger. FI an I went through a period like that when we first moved in together. He would just sit around and play on the computer. I admittedly didn't handle it well at first. I threatened to smash his compute with a hammer if he didn't get off his ass and do what he said he would. Lol. We did eventually sit down and talk about it and he is so much better now. I think he does more housework then I do now.
Are we twins? I totally threatened to smash H's computer not too long after we married because he got Borderlands 2 and became obsessed. It doesn't help that his computer desk is on the back wall of our room so not only was his back to me, but he was always in the very back of the house. He also usually had noise cancelling headphones on. Once I stood behind him screaming just to see if he could hear me. He couldn't. So I kicked his chair which got his attention. That's when I threatened to smash the damn computer because I was sick of being ignored when we were newlyweds (and hadn't lived together beforehand) and not only was I doing all the housework, but he spent all evening every day with his back to me unable to hear me if I needed him. I told him I'd be damned if he had a mistress 3 months into marriage. He got much better after that. I'm easy going about his gaming habits, but a woman has her limits!

We must be twins! FI and I are both hotheads (and proud of it) and I was so angry in that moment that I might have actually smashed to computer if he hadn't gotten off of it and if I knew where the hammer was.

ktjanesmom · May 2014

What is it with grown men and video games? I feel very sad for anyone that has to deal with this kind of problem in their relationship. Your anger is very valid and I think you should have a serious discussion about getting rid of the games. Sounds like an addiction to me.

CMGragain · May 2014

phira said:

One thing I'm worried about is that there are no repercussions for him NOT doing his share. Giving him deadlines or playing chicken with the dishes is ineffective; he can (and has!) missed deadlines, and playing chore chicken leaves everyone miserable. I've learned from living with roommates that if no one does the dishes, eventually SOMEONE will have to do the dishes or else there are ants in the sink.

Of course there are repercussions. If I'm "too tired" because I had to do the housework, then it's DH's tough luck! Now DH is retired, and he's underfoot most of the time. His new computer arrived two hours ago via UPS, and I doubt he'll get much done for a few days.
To his credit, when I was in chemo for a year (breast cancer), he stepped up and learned to cook, clean, vacuum. He never did the laundry, though, and while he will load and start the dishwasher, he seems incapable of unloading it and putting away the dishes.

lyndausvi · May 2014

CMGragain said:

phira said:

One thing I'm worried about is that there are no repercussions for him NOT doing his share. Giving him deadlines or playing chicken with the dishes is ineffective; he can (and has!) missed deadlines, and playing chore chicken leaves everyone miserable. I've learned from living with roommates that if no one does the dishes, eventually SOMEONE will have to do the dishes or else there are ants in the sink.

Of course there are repercussions. If I'm "too tired" because I had to do the housework, then it's DH's tough luck! Now DH is retired, and he's underfoot most of the time. His new computer arrived two hours ago via UPS, and I doubt he'll get much done for a few days.
To his credit, when I was in chemo for a year (breast cancer), he stepped up and learned to cook, clean, vacuum. He never did the laundry, though, and while he will load and start the dishwasher, he seems incapable of unloading it and putting away the dishes.

My DH refuses to use the dishwasher. It's like he pretends it's not even there. He barely hand washes dishes either. A work he as people to clean up behind him.

That all said, he cooks dinner the rare times we have dinner together, so I can't complain too much.

phira · May 2014

CMGragain said:

phira said:

One thing I'm worried about is that there are no repercussions for him NOT doing his share. Giving him deadlines or playing chicken with the dishes is ineffective; he can (and has!) missed deadlines, and playing chore chicken leaves everyone miserable. I've learned from living with roommates that if no one does the dishes, eventually SOMEONE will have to do the dishes or else there are ants in the sink.

Of course there are repercussions. If I'm "too tired" because I had to do the housework, then it's DH's tough luck! Now DH is retired, and he's underfoot most of the time. His new computer arrived two hours ago via UPS, and I doubt he'll get much done for a few days.
To his credit, when I was in chemo for a year (breast cancer), he stepped up and learned to cook, clean, vacuum. He never did the laundry, though, and while he will load and start the dishwasher, he seems incapable of unloading it and putting away the dishes.

I mean, what if it's my partner's turn to do the dishes, and he doesn't do them and then we're out of clean dishes and I need a dish?

pinkshorts27 · May 2014

phira said:

CMGragain said:

phira said:

One thing I'm worried about is that there are no repercussions for him NOT doing his share. Giving him deadlines or playing chicken with the dishes is ineffective; he can (and has!) missed deadlines, and playing chore chicken leaves everyone miserable. I've learned from living with roommates that if no one does the dishes, eventually SOMEONE will have to do the dishes or else there are ants in the sink.

Of course there are repercussions. If I'm "too tired" because I had to do the housework, then it's DH's tough luck! Now DH is retired, and he's underfoot most of the time. His new computer arrived two hours ago via UPS, and I doubt he'll get much done for a few days.
To his credit, when I was in chemo for a year (breast cancer), he stepped up and learned to cook, clean, vacuum. He never did the laundry, though, and while he will load and start the dishwasher, he seems incapable of unloading it and putting away the dishes.

I mean, what if it's my partner's turn to do the dishes, and he doesn't do them and then we're out of clean dishes and I need a dish?

We have a rule that the person who doesn't cook does dishes. If there are no clean dishes I will dump said dirty dishes on his lap if he is playing video games. That ought to get he attention. *somewhat sarcasm*

phira · May 2014

pinkshorts27 said:

phira said:

CMGragain said:

phira said:

One thing I'm worried about is that there are no repercussions for him NOT doing his share. Giving him deadlines or playing chicken with the dishes is ineffective; he can (and has!) missed deadlines, and playing chore chicken leaves everyone miserable. I've learned from living with roommates that if no one does the dishes, eventually SOMEONE will have to do the dishes or else there are ants in the sink.

Of course there are repercussions. If I'm "too tired" because I had to do the housework, then it's DH's tough luck! Now DH is retired, and he's underfoot most of the time. His new computer arrived two hours ago via UPS, and I doubt he'll get much done for a few days.
To his credit, when I was in chemo for a year (breast cancer), he stepped up and learned to cook, clean, vacuum. He never did the laundry, though, and while he will load and start the dishwasher, he seems incapable of unloading it and putting away the dishes.

I mean, what if it's my partner's turn to do the dishes, and he doesn't do them and then we're out of clean dishes and I need a dish?

We have a rule that the person who doesn't cook does dishes. If there are no clean dishes I will dump said dirty dishes on his lap if he is playing video games. That ought to get he attention. *somewhat sarcasm*

Right, but ... the problem the OP has is that her guy just does not do these things even when he's supposed to.

pinkshorts27 · May 2014

phira said:

pinkshorts27 said:

phira said:

CMGragain said:

phira said:

One thing I'm worried about is that there are no repercussions for him NOT doing his share. Giving him deadlines or playing chicken with the dishes is ineffective; he can (and has!) missed deadlines, and playing chore chicken leaves everyone miserable. I've learned from living with roommates that if no one does the dishes, eventually SOMEONE will have to do the dishes or else there are ants in the sink.

Of course there are repercussions. If I'm "too tired" because I had to do the housework, then it's DH's tough luck! Now DH is retired, and he's underfoot most of the time. His new computer arrived two hours ago via UPS, and I doubt he'll get much done for a few days.
To his credit, when I was in chemo for a year (breast cancer), he stepped up and learned to cook, clean, vacuum. He never did the laundry, though, and while he will load and start the dishwasher, he seems incapable of unloading it and putting away the dishes.

I mean, what if it's my partner's turn to do the dishes, and he doesn't do them and then we're out of clean dishes and I need a dish?

We have a rule that the person who doesn't cook does dishes. If there are no clean dishes I will dump said dirty dishes on his lap if he is playing video games. That ought to get he attention. *somewhat sarcasm*

Right, but ... the problem the OP has is that her guy just does not do these things even when he's supposed to.

Yes, I got off topic. I am going back to the what I said before, she needs to sit down and have a come-to-jesus talk and figure out where the barrier is.

CMGragain · May 2014

I do think OP needs to understand that her FI is not going to change. Can she accept this? I always say that I MARRIED my husband,; I didn't RAISE him! Somebody enabled his behavior for 25 years. My late MIL just didn't care about housework.

pinkshorts27 · May 2014

CMGragain said:

I do think OP needs to understand that her FI is not going to change. Can she accept this? I always say that I MARRIED my husband,; I didn't RAISE him! Somebody enabled his behavior for 25 years. My late MIL just didn't care about housework.

I think he could change if he recognizes how destructive his behavior is and wants to change. I went from never doing chores to suddenly wanting to keep things clean. But I also think he has to want to change. She cannot force him to change at all.

JCbride2015 · May 2014

pinkshorts27 said: CMGragain said: I do think OP needs to understand that her FI is not going to change. Can she accept this? I always say that I MARRIED my husband,; I didn't RAISE him! Somebody enabled his behavior for 25 years. My late MIL just didn't care about housework.
I think he could change if he recognizes how destructive his behavior is and wants to change. I went from never doing chores to suddenly wanting to keep things clean. But I also think he has to want to change. She cannot force him to change at all.

----------SITDB-----------

Yeah, he can change his behavior. Habits can change. If there's truly an underlying issue of laziness or selfishness though, that's what won't change. Only OP knows if this is just that her SO has never had to do housework before and doesn't know what's expected of him, or if there is an underlying incompatibility.

LadyMillil · May 2014

JCbride2015 said:

pinkshorts27 said:

CMGragain said:

I do think OP needs to understand that her FI is not going to change. Can she accept this? I always say that I MARRIED my husband,; I didn't RAISE him! Somebody enabled his behavior for 25 years. My late MIL just didn't care about housework.

I think he could change if he recognizes how destructive his behavior is and wants to change. I went from never doing chores to suddenly wanting to keep things clean. But I also think he has to want to change. She cannot force him to change at all.

----------SITDB-----------

Yeah, he can change his behavior. Habits can change. If there's truly an underlying issue of laziness or selfishness though, that's what won't change. Only OP knows if this is just that her SO has never had to do housework before and doesn't know what's expected of him, or if there is an underlying incompatibility. Ditto all this. DH lived with his parents until we moved in together. The only housework he had to do was put his dirty dishes in the dishwasher - his mom even picked up all his dirty laundry off his bedroom floor to wash it. He didn't know how to do most housework and expected me to do everything, like his mom, when we moved in together. I made my chore expectations clear, and he changed his habits to help out. OP needs to figure out if her SO isn't doing chores because he hasn't had all these responsibilities before, which can be changed if he is willing to help out.

ETA - quote boxes are weird

Bubblegum5586 · May 2014

lyndausvi said:

I must say I married a man-child. I knew that when I married him. I knew from the beginning he is not one for housework. He will do it, it's just on his time not mine. Doesn't help he works outside the house 7 days a week 10+ hours a day. I on the other hand work from home 7 hours a day 5 days a week. I see it more so it bothers me more.

When I start feeling overwhelmed or unappreciated I just talk to him. He normally gets back on track. I will be working in the morning and all the sudden I hear the vacuum running. I will go upstairs and see he started the laundry (which actually stress me out because he isn't good, bu whatever, he's trying).

He is not a mind reader. You need to just talk to him. Not yell. Talk.

After many years of living with H (although moving into our first HOUSE next month!) I have learned we have different standards of cleanliness. I used to get upset that he wouldn't clean more, but in his eyes he didn't see anything wrong. I have learned that all I have to do is ask him to do something.... and he does it! To me that is good enough. (although occasionally I will be surprised by clean dishes or a clean BR and oh what a nice surprise it is!)

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