B-listing, how to argue against it

[Deleted User] · May 2014

Just had a conversation with a co-worker. It came up because I said I have another 3 or so weeks before I have to RSVP to an August wedding. I said something like, "which is ridiculously early." And she said, "Well, it's probably because she wants to do another round of invitations." Me, "Probably. Wouldn't be surprised to see that kind of tacky coming from these people." And she went on to defend it. Apparently she did it when she got married years ago (9 years ago?) and it all had to do with budget. Since her parents were helping to pay for the wedding, she had to invite mostly family and family friends. So once people started declining she was able to add HER friends. I tried to tell her, no, you budget for everyone you want to invite, then you either save that money you would have spent on declines or you put it towards bettering the bar or something. She continued to say that no, she wanted to invite her friends because it was very important that they be there. And I tried telling her that she should have budgeted for them from the beginning. She just didn't get it and I didn't have the energy to continue fighting something. What's the answer to this argument?

photokitty · May 2014

For the love of all that is holy - please change the thread title! At least change is to "is B-listing ok?" ETA - and you are correct, she is wrong. B listing is not ok. She should have made the guest list according to her budget. B listing is NEVER ok

[Deleted User] · May 2014

@photokitty, better? Sorry, I kinda wanted to get a rise.

Jen4948 · May 2014

When you get asked about it, ask the other person how they would feel to be B-listed knowingly, and how good a friend the person who B-lists you is being to you when they don't invite you in the first place but only because someone else declined the invitation.

[Deleted User] · May 2014

Jen4948 said:

When you get asked about it, ask the other person how they would feel to be B-listed knowingly, and how good a friend the person who B-lists you is being to you when they don't invite you in the first place but only because someone else declined the invitation.

SITB
Trying to play my co-worker's side of the argument...
But everybody knows that family comes first. So if I get to come to the wedding because my friend's aunt and uncle can't, I'll be happy to be able to share the day with them. Budget. Family.

Gah! I can't! Seriously, it hurt my brain to hear her say these things. I just didn't understand why, if her budget was whatever, she just didn't divide that by how many people she (and her parents) really wanted to invite. Spend less money on your dress, the flowers, maybe less booze in the bar, and increase some of those things when people start to decline. Get better flowers and better booze when your family can't make it, don't invite more people. Sigh.

ddkappy · May 2014

We originally had a smaller banquet room and could not invite everyone we wanted to. We sucked it up, got the bigger room and have to guarantee 300. We budgeted for 300, we are just worried if we go under 300, but our initial guest list is in the mid-400s so I'm thinking we are good (lots of obligatory family who live out of the country).

emmyg65 · May 2014

In this case, I'd just let it go. Her wedding was years ago, so what's she going to do about it now? But yeah, if people are planning a wedding and thinking about doing this, I like flipping it around and asking how they'd feel. Though from reading Offbeat Bride, apparently that doesn't always work!

[Deleted User] · May 2014

emmyg65 said:

In this case, I'd just let it go. Her wedding was years ago, so what's she going to do about it now? But yeah, if people are planning a wedding and thinking about doing this, I like flipping it around and asking how they'd feel. Though from reading Offbeat Bride, apparently that doesn't always work!

She has since divorced and at 30 years old it's very likely she'll marry again someday. Also, I'm not necessarily asking to continue the argument with her, I just want to know how to do it should it come up again with someone else someday. Having heard an actual person who I kind of like and is pretty smart have such a terrible idea just makes me wonder who else I know has these terrible ideas and thinks they're perfectly good and right.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

I'd say to her, 'So you want to let people know, 'I like you. Not like, LIKE-like you, but sort-of-maybe-like you. You weren't my FIRST choice, but since someone I liked better than I like you declined, I have room, and I'll invite you instead, even though I wanted this other person to come more.'?'

Or liken it to a date, if she's dating post-divorce: 'How would you feel if a guy said to you, 'You weren't my first choice for a date, but she turned me down, and you're second-best, so you'll have to do.'?'

Gerbertmcway · May 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

I'd say to her, 'So you want to let people know, 'I like you. Not like, LIKE-like you, but sort-of-maybe-like you. You weren't my FIRST choice, but since someone I liked better than I like you declined, I have room, and I'll invite you instead, even though I wanted this other person to come more.'?'

Or liken it to a date, if she's dating post-divorce: 'How would you feel if a guy said to you, 'You weren't my first choice for a date, but she turned me down, and you're second-best, so you'll have to do.'?'

I'm not completely for or against b-listing. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it, but, how is this any worse than not inviting that person at all?

[Deleted User] · May 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

I'd say to her, 'So you want to let people know, 'I like you. Not like, LIKE-like you, but sort-of-maybe-like you. You weren't my FIRST choice, but since someone I liked better than I like you declined, I have room, and I'll invite you instead, even though I wanted this other person to come more.'?'

Or liken it to a date, if she's dating post-divorce: 'How would you feel if a guy said to you, 'You weren't my first choice for a date, but she turned me down, and you're second-best, so you'll have to do.'?'

SITDB
I like that! Also, since her argument was that everyone knows that family comes first, and she had to have a budget, you're basically saying, "Since my second cousin who I've never even met can't make it, I can now squeeze you in! You come second to people I don't even like!"

[Deleted User] · May 2014

Gerbertmcway said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

I'd say to her, 'So you want to let people know, 'I like you. Not like, LIKE-like you, but sort-of-maybe-like you. You weren't my FIRST choice, but since someone I liked better than I like you declined, I have room, and I'll invite you instead, even though I wanted this other person to come more.'?'

Or liken it to a date, if she's dating post-divorce: 'How would you feel if a guy said to you, 'You weren't my first choice for a date, but she turned me down, and you're second-best, so you'll have to do.'?'

I'm not completely for or against b-listing. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it, but, how is this any worse than not inviting that person at all?

The boxes hate me.
Because now I (as your B-listed friend) come second to people you don't even like. I don't want your crumbs.

Gerbertmcway · May 2014

adk19 said:

Gerbertmcway said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

I'd say to her, 'So you want to let people know, 'I like you. Not like, LIKE-like you, but sort-of-maybe-like you. You weren't my FIRST choice, but since someone I liked better than I like you declined, I have room, and I'll invite you instead, even though I wanted this other person to come more.'?'

Or liken it to a date, if she's dating post-divorce: 'How would you feel if a guy said to you, 'You weren't my first choice for a date, but she turned me down, and you're second-best, so you'll have to do.'?'

I'm not completely for or against b-listing. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it, but, how is this any worse than not inviting that person at all?

The boxes hate me.
Because now I (as your B-listed friend) come second to people you don't even like. I don't want your crumbs.

You would not be coming second to people I don't even like because I'm not inviting people I don't like. You would be coming second to people who are more important and close to me like aunts, uncles, and very close lifelong friends. I guess it could be considered rude to basically admit that there are people you "like better"/are closer to, but that's just silly for people like coworkers and not-as-close-friends to think they're at the top of my "people who are important to me" list.

[Deleted User] · May 2014

Because, honestly, I'd rather not be invited at all than be invited in a second round of invites.

I have a co-worker who is getting married in 5 weeks. We had a company shower for her, I know her invites went out last week, I occasionally casually ask how things are going. I know I'm not getting invited. We're not that close. I'm new to working here. We don't hang out after work ever. And while we like each other and get along, we're not exactly 'friends.' If she came to me next week and handed me an invitation saying, "I got enough declines that I can invite you and a few other people from work", I'd immediately hand the invitation back to her and say, "no thanks." And I would proceed to think less of her. What would make her think she and her wedding are so amazing that I would be so thrilled to be an afterthought add-on to her wedding? I'd rather be asked to grab drinks with her sometime after work in a few months after we're better friends than be a stranger at her wedding next month. THAT is more of an honor.

ladyamanuet · May 2014

Gerbertmcway said:

adk19 said:

Gerbertmcway said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

I'd say to her, 'So you want to let people know, 'I like you. Not like, LIKE-like you, but sort-of-maybe-like you. You weren't my FIRST choice, but since someone I liked better than I like you declined, I have room, and I'll invite you instead, even though I wanted this other person to come more.'?'

Or liken it to a date, if she's dating post-divorce: 'How would you feel if a guy said to you, 'You weren't my first choice for a date, but she turned me down, and you're second-best, so you'll have to do.'?'

I'm not completely for or against b-listing. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it, but, how is this any worse than not inviting that person at all?

The boxes hate me.
Because now I (as your B-listed friend) come second to people you don't even like. I don't want your crumbs.

You would not be coming second to people I don't even like because I'm not inviting people I don't like. You would be coming second to people who are more important and close to me like aunts, uncles, and very close lifelong friends. I guess it could be considered rude to basically admit that there are people you "like better"/are closer to, but that's just silly for people like coworkers and not-as-close-friends to think they're at the top of my "people who are important to me" list.

We get that we're not at the top of the people who are important to you list. That's why we're not offended we aren't invited. Because, contrary to many brides' beliefs, attending your wedding is not an honor. If I were B listed, it tells me "you aren't important enough to invite first round, but I'm still hoping I can milk you for a gift." B lists come off as gift grabby. If it were really that important I be there, I'd be on your A list. You put your foot down and say "no, patents, 2nd cousins I've never met are not invited over my very good friends I see frequently." If they won't agree, you refuse their monetary gift, plan a wedding in your budget, and invite who YOU want. If you aren't willing to do any of that, the people you claim to really want there, you don't really care if they're there or not

wrigleyville · May 2014

ddkappy said:

We originally had a smaller banquet room and could not invite everyone we wanted to. We sucked it up, got the bigger room and have to guarantee 300. We budgeted for 300, we are just worried if we go under 300, but our initial guest list is in the mid-400s so I'm thinking we are good (lots of obligatory family who live out of the country).

What are you going to do if you get 325 "yes" responses?

lc07 · May 2014

You can't argue with stupid and ever win.

lilacck28 · May 2014

wrigleyville said:

ddkappy said:

We originally had a smaller banquet room and could not invite everyone we wanted to. We sucked it up, got the bigger room and have to guarantee 300. We budgeted for 300, we are just worried if we go under 300, but our initial guest list is in the mid-400s so I'm thinking we are good (lots of obligatory family who live out of the country).

What are you going to do if you get 325 "yes" responses?

SITB:

I think ddkappy was saying she got a large room that would hold her 400+ people, and would be, no matter what, paying for 300 people per her agreement with her vendor.

mrscaty · May 2014

adk19 said:
I have a co-worker who is getting married in 5 weeks. We had a company shower for her, I know her invites went out last week, I occasionally casually ask how things are going. I know I'm not getting invited. We're not that close. I'm new to working here. We don't hang out after work ever. And while we like each other and get along, we're not exactly 'friends.' If she came to me next week and handed me an invitation saying, "I got enough declines that I can invite you and a few other people from work", I'd immediately hand the invitation back to her and say, "no thanks." And I would proceed to think less of her. What would make her think she and her wedding are so amazing that I would be so thrilled to be an afterthought add-on to her wedding? I'd rather be asked to grab drinks with her sometime after work in a few months after we're better friends than be a stranger at her wedding next month. THAT is more of an honor.

I think I'm the lone one that isn't really offended by B-lists. I mean, if my best friend B-listed me, I'd be pissed. But if this situation occurred (as it very well may, I too have an engaged coworker) I would probably go. I like weddings. I like free food and free booze and pretty dresses. I probably wouldn't give as big a gift (because we're just acquaintances, after all) but I would definitely not think less of her. I know that shit happens and minimums have to be made and all that jazz.

FWIW - We are NOT having a B list (because I don't expect any declines from our 30 person guest list)

CMGragain · May 2014

OK, I am guilty.
One of daughter's co-workers threw himself at her feet and said, "Please, please, please may I come to see you be married?" She knew there was room, so she asked me to mail the invitation three weeks before the wedding.
In general, I know this is bad etiquette, but he so wanted to see her wedding. She didn't invite any other co-workers, and he promised not to tell anybody at work. A few other friends asked if they could come, so we went ahead and invited them late. It was bad for them to have asked, but they knew that they weren't originally invited when they asked.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

Based on threads we see on TK, I think assuming 'free booze' is an unsafe assumption.

pinkshorts27 · May 2014

CMGragain said:

OK, I am guilty.
One of daughter's co-workers threw himself at her feet and said, "Please, please, please may I come to see you be married?" She knew there was room, so she asked me to mail the invitation three weeks before the wedding.
In general, I know this is bad etiquette, but he so wanted to see her wedding. She didn't invite any other co-workers, and he promised not to tell anybody at work. A few other friends asked if they could come, so we went ahead and invited them late. It was bad for them to have asked, but they knew that they weren't originally invited when they asked.

People beg to go to weddings? Awkward panda.

theartistformerlyknownas · May 2014

adk19 said:

Just had a conversation with a co-worker. It came up because I said I have another 3 or so weeks before I have to RSVP to an August wedding. I said something like, "which is ridiculously early." And she said, "Well, it's probably because she wants to do another round of invitations." Me, "Probably. Wouldn't be surprised to see that kind of tacky coming from these people." And she went on to defend it. Apparently she did it when she got married years ago (9 years ago?) and it all had to do with budget. Since her parents were helping to pay for the wedding, she had to invite mostly family and family friends. So once people started declining she was able to add HER friends. I tried to tell her, no, you budget for everyone you want to invite, then you either save that money you would have spent on declines or you put it towards bettering the bar or something. She continued to say that no, she wanted to invite her friends because it was very important that they be there. And I tried telling her that she should have budgeted for them from the beginning. She just didn't get it and I didn't have the energy to continue fighting something. What's the answer to this argument?

You (general you) have to decide which is more important - your friends' presence, or your parents' money. If it's that important to have the people with whom YOU are close, and not with whom your PARENTS are close, you can politely decline your parents' offer to host and then get full say back in the guest list. But, you know, you have to pay then. If you're willing to give up control to get the money, you need to live with the ramifications.

If you said to me "my parents insisted we invite Great Aunt Gertrude, but since she broke her hip and can't come, we're free to invite you. Yay!" that doesn't tell me "family comes first, but you're a very close second and that's a totally acceptable thing because family, duh." It tells me "I sold out to my parents and lost control of my guest list. Money > you. Wanna come party anyway?" Um, no, actually, I don't. Not at all. Thanksbutnothanks.

FI and I didn't want to answer to anyone when we made wedding decisions, so we're paying for it ourselves. We wanted family AND friends, so our guest list is pretty large. We're scrimping like hell to afford it and putting off buying a house for a year, not putting our friends into tiers.

CMGragain · May 2014

Yes, really! He was her teaching partner when she taught a class of "identified at risk" students. He was a very polite young Jewish man, and he said he had never been to a church wedding before. I don't know what he expected. Methodist church weddings are pretty tame compared to Jewish Orthodox!

HeatherKat · May 2014

ladygoldfish said:

adk19 said:
I have a co-worker who is getting married in 5 weeks. We had a company shower for her, I know her invites went out last week, I occasionally casually ask how things are going. I know I'm not getting invited. We're not that close. I'm new to working here. We don't hang out after work ever. And while we like each other and get along, we're not exactly 'friends.' If she came to me next week and handed me an invitation saying, "I got enough declines that I can invite you and a few other people from work", I'd immediately hand the invitation back to her and say, "no thanks." And I would proceed to think less of her. What would make her think she and her wedding are so amazing that I would be so thrilled to be an afterthought add-on to her wedding? I'd rather be asked to grab drinks with her sometime after work in a few months after we're better friends than be a stranger at her wedding next month. THAT is more of an honor.

I think I'm the lone one that isn't really offended by B-lists. I mean, if my best friend B-listed me, I'd be pissed. But if this situation occurred (as it very well may, I too have an engaged coworker) I would probably go. I like weddings. I like free food and free booze and pretty dresses. I probably wouldn't give as big a gift (because we're just acquaintances, after all) but I would definitely not think less of her. I know that shit happens and minimums have to be made and all that jazz.

FWIW - We are NOT having a B list (because I don't expect any declines from our 30 person guest list)

@ladygoldfish-- You aren't alone! I feel the same way. My sister or BFF B-lists me? I'm pissed. A girl I work with invites me after Great Aunt Mildred declines her courtesy invite? Let's party! I've been looking for an excuse to wear this slamming new dress anyways.

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand why B-lists are offensive to some (most?) people. And we ARE NOT having one. But there are definitely people that I had to leave off the invite list who I'd love to party with on my wedding night, but the parents insist that I invite so-and-so Great Uncle who I know isn't coming anyways, but just in case he gets off of his deathbed to make it I can't invite others. C'est la vie.

NYCBruin · May 2014

Gerbertmcway said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

I'd say to her, 'So you want to let people know, 'I like you. Not like, LIKE-like you, but sort-of-maybe-like you. You weren't my FIRST choice, but since someone I liked better than I like you declined, I have room, and I'll invite you instead, even though I wanted this other person to come more.'?'

Or liken it to a date, if she's dating post-divorce: 'How would you feel if a guy said to you, 'You weren't my first choice for a date, but she turned me down, and you're second-best, so you'll have to do.'?'

I'm not completely for or against b-listing. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it, but, how is this any worse than not inviting that person at all?

Because there's nothing bad, rude or offensive about not being invited to a wedding. I get that you probably had to make tough choices and couldn't invite everyone you wanted to.

B listing is publicly ranks your friends and family. And that's not cool.

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

The foundation of etiquette is your guests' comfort, and publicly ranking your friends, or letting them know they're 'not quite god enough' is humiliating and rude.

No one is offended by not being invited. People are offended by being told they're second-class friends.

JCbride2015 · May 2014

HisGirlFriday13 said:

The foundation of etiquette is your guests' comfort, and publicly ranking your friends, or letting them know they're 'not quite godgood enough' is humiliating and rude. No one is offended by not being invited. People are offended by being told they're second-class friends.

This. It's like my 1L Legal Practice professor who told the class, "The curve only let me give 4 A's. But two of you just missed the cut for an A, you were almost there." Seriously dude, you're making it worse. Nobody was upset they missed the A until you rubbed it in.

And I think B-listing implies a certain arrogance that once your friends haven't made the cut, they are falling all over themselves to attend your wedding once a spot opens up. If I'm not invited to your wedding, I'll determine that either we aren't that close, and/or you're having a small wedding, and move on with my life. But getting a B-list invitation just makes it feel like you (general you), the marrying couple, assume your family and friends are okay with getting jerked around just for an opportunity to attend your special day.

*FTFY but it's hilarious. Sorry, Friend B, you're great at throwing lightning bolts, but Friend A is really omnipotent. So you get a B-list invite. Try harder on your God skills next time!

HisGirlFriday13 · May 2014

JCbride2015 said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

The foundation of etiquette is your guests' comfort, and publicly ranking your friends, or letting them know they're 'not quite godgood enough' is humiliating and rude.

No one is offended by not being invited. People are offended by being told they're second-class friends.

This. It's like my 1L Legal Practice professor who told the class, "The curve only let me give 4 A's. But two of you just missed the cut for an A, you were almost there." Seriously dude, you're making it worse. Nobody was upset they missed the A until you rubbed it in.

And I think B-listing implies a certain arrogance that once your friends haven't made the cut, they are falling all over themselves to attend your wedding once a spot opens up. If I'm not invited to your wedding, I'll determine that either we aren't that close, and/or you're having a small wedding, and move on with my life. But getting a B-list invitation just makes it feel like you (general you), the marrying couple, assume your family and friends are okay with getting jerked around just for an opportunity to attend your special day.

*FTFY but it's hilarious. Sorry, Friend B, you're great at throwing lightning bolts, but Friend A is really omnipotent. So you get a B-list invite. Try harder on your God skills next time!

If I had friends with god-powers I would have gotten them to fix the rain on my wedding day because our outdoor pics got cancelled (for the most part) because of that!

And thanks for the catch! That was a fun typo. Stupid knotting on mobile.

melbenso · May 2014

In all honesty, I understand the "logic" of her specific argument. I would want to invite my friends. That being said, B-listing is rude as hell. (I wouldn't let my FI add a couple on when he found out 3 days after we sent invites that two of his friends couldn't come.) If she didn't want to be stuck with her parents invites, she shouldn't have accepted their money.

Gerbertmcway · May 2014

I can't seem to understand why it's "publicly ranking your friends" when you b-list them but not when you don't invite them. If one friend is invited and another isn't, obviously you like/are closer with the invited one than the other. In my case, I'm only considering b-listing some coworkers. I'm already inviting all family and friends that I care about having there. Two coworkers who are also in the friends category are also invited. I like the rest of my coworkers, we hang out outside of work a little - mostly after work happy hours. I like them all a lot and I do think it would be fun to have them there but inviting all of them adds about 12 people to the list (including SOs). It's not about a guest minimum, it's not to fill a seat, it's that if I get declines I will have the money and space for them. Also, they absolutely would enjoy free food and drinks and hopefully a good time at my wedding, even though I'm well aware that it's not some sort of honor to attend.

B-listing, how to argue against it

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