Tradition?

CMGragain · June 2014

How old does something have to be to qualify as a tradition?

I never heard of the garter toss until about 30 years ago.
Open bar at a reception is relatively new.
Outdoor weddings were new in the 1970s.
Tuxedos were new for weddings in the 1950s.

AlexisA01 · June 2014

I always thought tradition was reflected through like mindedness of people doing something(say Garter toss, money dance, who pays for what, etc) in a collective conscious way. At least, that was my understanding.

MobKaz · June 2014

CMGragain said:

How old does something have to be to qualify as a tradition?

I never heard of the garter toss until about 30 years ago.
Open bar at a reception is relatively new.
Outdoor weddings were new in the 1970s.
Tuxedos were new for weddings in the 1950s.

How do you define "relatively new"? I married 36 years ago and we most definitely had an open bar.

JCbride2015 · June 2014

I'd probably consider something a tradition if at least two generations of my family have done it. Something just my mom did, not an actual wedding tradition. If it's old enough that my grandmother AND my mom did it, tradition.

This is a pretty random rule of thumb though. And obviously certain family traditions could be younger than that.

CMGragain · June 2014

MobKaz said:

CMGragain said:

How old does something have to be to qualify as a tradition?

I never heard of the garter toss until about 30 years ago.
Open bar at a reception is relatively new.
Outdoor weddings were new in the 1970s.
Tuxedos were new for weddings in the 1950s.

How do you define "relatively new"? I married 36 years ago and we most definitely had an open bar.

Prohibition ended 80 years ago, but attitudes about drinking changed very slowly, especially in rural areas. In Iowa, when I was married, alcohol could only be purchased at a state owned and controlled liquor store. Open bar would have only been possible at a venue with a liquor license, such as a restaurant or country club.

Amonite · June 2014

Open bars are more of a tradition in the south, I think. I've never been to a wedding that had one (I live in the NW). And while it is a tradition in some areas, it's neither required nor necessary etiquette. Only a couple weddings I have been to bothered with a garter toss. One didn't throw the bouquet.

Think about weddings you have personally been to and note similar customs (cake cutting, first dance, etc). Those will probably be the 'traditional' things for your area or group of friends.

Simply Fated · June 2014

CMGragain said:

How old does something have to be to qualify as a tradition?

I never heard of the garter toss until about 30 years ago.
Open bar at a reception is relatively new.
Outdoor weddings were new in the 1970s.
Tuxedos were new for weddings in the 1950s.

I personally don't think it's a set period of time that determines whether or not something is a tradition. I think it's more about the mindset of people and their willingness to do it.

I wasn't alive before 1970, but outdoor weddings couldn't have been that new in the 1970's, seeing as how I've read books that were published much earlier than that where the couple was married outdoors. Anne of Green Gables and.... I want to say Little House on the Prairie, but I could be confusing it with another book series.

twitterbird · June 2014

Traditions can change and move with time. Wearing a white wedding dress wasn't the norm until Victorian times. And even now its not the tradition in all cultures. I guess you could call it the norm for your cultural group. More than one cultural group can exist in a country at the same time so those aren't the same thing. You can have traditions that are family focused as each family is in its way a culture onto itself. One of my bridesmaids carried a handkerchief at her wedding that was made of a piece of her grandmother's wedding dress and her grandfather's wedding suit. That's a tradition in their family and her mother, aunts and cousins all did the same thing at their weddings.

ohannabelle · June 2014

Amonite said:

Open bars are more of a tradition in the south, I think. I've never been to a wedding that had one (I live in the NW). And while it is a tradition in some areas, it's neither required nor necessary etiquette. Only a couple weddings I have been to bothered with a garter toss. One didn't throw the bouquet.

Think about weddings you have personally been to and note similar customs (cake cutting, first dance, etc). Those will probably be the 'traditional' things for your area or group of friends.

Not even true about the regional thing.

I'm Northwest (Seattle) born and bred, and have only been to one wedding that had a cash bar, and people were unpleasantly surprised by it. Parents had an open bar in the 50s, and Grandma had one during prohibition, which was very racy of her. (Her brother had a fishing boat, and a shady side business importing Canadian spirits. He was sad when Prohibition was repealed.)

Yes, it is very much correct and necessary etiquette to host your guests without charging them. This is nothing new, and definitely not regional.

Ditto with CM on the garter toss.

Most weddings pre 1980s were daytime affairs. And pre 70s, yes, almost always indoors, in a church.

ladyamanuet · June 2014

@ohannabelle is correct - open bars are not a "tradition" nor are they regional - hosting your guests properly is etiquette, not tradition. You do what you can afford - whether that be dry, limited bar, or full open bar. What you don't do is charge your guests for anything.

And open bars occurred long before prohibition.

ElcaB · June 2014

I don't know, but as a former show choir geek, I couldn't resist posting this:

lyndausvi · June 2014

CMGragain said:

How old does something have to be to qualify as a tradition?

I never heard of the garter toss until about 30 years ago.
Open bar at a reception is relatively new.
Outdoor weddings were new in the 1970s.
Tuxedos were new for weddings in the 1950s.

It drives me batty when you say this. Maybe in your social group that might be true. My family has had open bars at EVERY event dating back to before my grandparents got married. They got married in 1930. EVERY event, wedding or otherwise had free booze. Even during Prohibition when my grandfather made bath tub gin.

And when I say every event, I mean weddings, baby showers, 1st birthdays, funerals and wakes. Anytime 2 or more family members were together alcohol was offered. Not always drank, but it was always offered. And my grandparents are far from rich.

I realize my family might not be the norm so I do not go around speaking about things as a given for every social group. I'm very specific to say in MY social group.

selenathegreat · June 2014

It's a very fuzzy concept. If my mom did something at her wedding that I wanted to do too, I might consider it tradition even if she made it up and it had never been done before.

ohannabelle · June 2014

lyndausvi said:

CMGragain said:

How old does something have to be to qualify as a tradition?

I never heard of the garter toss until about 30 years ago.
Open bar at a reception is relatively new.
Outdoor weddings were new in the 1970s.
Tuxedos were new for weddings in the 1950s.

It drives me batty when you say this. Maybe in your social group that might be true. My family has had open bars at EVERY event dating back to before my grandparents got married. They got married in 1930. EVERY event, wedding or otherwise had free booze. Even during Prohibition when my grandfather made bath tub gin.

And when I say every event, I mean weddings, baby showers, 1st birthdays, funerals and wakes. Anytime 2 or more family members were together alcohol was offered. Not always drank, but it was always offered. And my grandparents are far from rich.

I realize my family might not be the norm so I do not go around speaking about things as a given for every social group. I'm very specific to say in MY social group.

Good to know that my family wasn't the only one crossing the legal line back then.

theartistformerlyknownas · June 2014

Definitely about mindset and expectations within a social circle rather than a period of time. We have traditions in my family that only go back a few years, but we see them as traditions and expect for them to continue. But just because they're our tradition doesn't mean I expect other people to follow them.

In my circle, bouquet and garter tosses are tradition; putting the garter onto whoever catches the bouquet is not.

lyndausvi · June 2014

ohannabelle said:

lyndausvi said:

CMGragain said:

How old does something have to be to qualify as a tradition?

I never heard of the garter toss until about 30 years ago.
Open bar at a reception is relatively new.
Outdoor weddings were new in the 1970s.
Tuxedos were new for weddings in the 1950s.

It drives me batty when you say this. Maybe in your social group that might be true. My family has had open bars at EVERY event dating back to before my grandparents got married. They got married in 1930. EVERY event, wedding or otherwise had free booze. Even during Prohibition when my grandfather made bath tub gin.

And when I say every event, I mean weddings, baby showers, 1st birthdays, funerals and wakes. Anytime 2 or more family members were together alcohol was offered. Not always drank, but it was always offered. And my grandparents are far from rich.

I realize my family might not be the norm so I do not go around speaking about things as a given for every social group. I'm very specific to say in MY social group.

Good to know that my family wasn't the only one crossing the legal line back then.

Yeah, my family is the reason why Irish-Catholic stereotypes exist. Seriously, we are the poster children.

The first non-family funeral I went to was a real eye-opener. Our funerals and wakes are loud and full of laughter. At my grandmother's funeral I remember having to go out for another keg because the first 2 blew at the after reception. I was only 20 and had to drive my over-21 cousins to get the new one. I was driving because my car was easily accessible.

VulgarGirl · June 2014

lyndausvi said:

CMGragain said:

How old does something have to be to qualify as a tradition?

I never heard of the garter toss until about 30 years ago.
Open bar at a reception is relatively new.
Outdoor weddings were new in the 1970s.
Tuxedos were new for weddings in the 1950s.

It drives me batty when you say this. Maybe in your social group that might be true. My family has had open bars at EVERY event dating back to before my grandparents got married. They got married in 1930. EVERY event, wedding or otherwise had free booze. Even during Prohibition when my grandfather made bath tub gin.

And when I say every event, I mean weddings, baby showers, 1st birthdays, funerals and wakes. Anytime 2 or more family members were together alcohol was offered. Not always drank, but it was always offered. And my grandparents are far from rich.

I realize my family might not be the norm so I do not go around speaking about things as a given for every social group. I'm very specific to say in MY social group.

I want to hang out with your family always.

VulgarGirl · June 2014

lolo883 said:

Definitely about mindset and expectations within a social circle rather than a period of time. We have traditions in my family that only go back a few years, but we see them as traditions and expect for them to continue. But just because they're our tradition doesn't mean I expect other people to follow them.

In my circle, bouquet and garter tosses are tradition; putting the garter onto whoever catches the bouquet is not.

Yeah I've only heard of that here. In my circle they just catch it and it's done and over with. Maybe the people pose for a picture together but that's about it.

In my group of friends we always seem to try to get whatever kids are there to catch the flowers/garter. Because it's cute and the kids get all excited when we cheer for them for catching a thing.

lyndausvi · June 2014

MagicInk said:

lyndausvi said:

CMGragain said:

How old does something have to be to qualify as a tradition?

I never heard of the garter toss until about 30 years ago.
Open bar at a reception is relatively new.
Outdoor weddings were new in the 1970s.
Tuxedos were new for weddings in the 1950s.

It drives me batty when you say this. Maybe in your social group that might be true. My family has had open bars at EVERY event dating back to before my grandparents got married. They got married in 1930. EVERY event, wedding or otherwise had free booze. Even during Prohibition when my grandfather made bath tub gin.

And when I say every event, I mean weddings, baby showers, 1st birthdays, funerals and wakes. Anytime 2 or more family members were together alcohol was offered. Not always drank, but it was always offered. And my grandparents are far from rich.

I realize my family might not be the norm so I do not go around speaking about things as a given for every social group. I'm very specific to say in MY social group.

I want to hang out with your family always.

Any time you want.

thisismynickname2 · June 2014

CMGragain said:

How old does something have to be to qualify as a tradition?

I never heard of the garter toss until about 30 years ago.
Open bar at a reception is relatively new.
Outdoor weddings were new in the 1970s.
Tuxedos were new for weddings in the 1950s.

To give my thoughts on the original question only....

Tradition is if the previous generation to you did it?

<< Shrugs, time to read everyone else's post. >>

ohannabelle · June 2014

lyndausvi said:

ohannabelle said:

lyndausvi said:

CMGragain said:

How old does something have to be to qualify as a tradition?

I never heard of the garter toss until about 30 years ago.
Open bar at a reception is relatively new.
Outdoor weddings were new in the 1970s.
Tuxedos were new for weddings in the 1950s.

It drives me batty when you say this. Maybe in your social group that might be true. My family has had open bars at EVERY event dating back to before my grandparents got married. They got married in 1930. EVERY event, wedding or otherwise had free booze. Even during Prohibition when my grandfather made bath tub gin.

And when I say every event, I mean weddings, baby showers, 1st birthdays, funerals and wakes. Anytime 2 or more family members were together alcohol was offered. Not always drank, but it was always offered. And my grandparents are far from rich.

I realize my family might not be the norm so I do not go around speaking about things as a given for every social group. I'm very specific to say in MY social group.

Good to know that my family wasn't the only one crossing the legal line back then.

Yeah, my family is the reason why Irish-Catholic stereotypes exist. Seriously, we are the poster children.

The first non-family funeral I went to was a real eye-opener. Our funerals and wakes are loud and full of laughter. At my grandmother's funeral I remember having to go out for another keg because the first 2 blew at the after reception. I was only 20 and had to drive my over-21 cousins to get the new one. I was driving because my car was easily accessible.

Exactly. And here, I think, is where traditionally our cultural/traditional experience differs from CM. My mother's family is more American, and Protestant, and alcohol was just not involved in celebrations. It was something "foreigners" did. Not at all something you saw at their weddings, except maybe a token glass of champagne. My parent's wedding raised a few eyebrows with her family. They thought the alcohol was excessive.

My father's family, Italian. There was (is) lots of wine, at any get together. No social stigma against party time.

And no, I can't speak for every Italian family. Just my own.

lyndausvi · June 2014

ohannabell - I agree.

Etiquette states that guest should not have to open their wallets for anything. So in terms of etiquette one should have free beverages. Let's just call it an open bar as the fact that some are non-alcoholic and others are should be irrelevant.

Tradition might be what items are part of the open bar. In CMG's social group it might be only juices and water. Others might be juices, water, soda. Still others add in beer and/or wine. In my social group it becomes water, juices, soda, beer, wine and liquor.

Not all groups will have a tradition of what items are part of a bar. Sometimes it's just a matter of expenses, tastes or religion. Sometimes there is a tradition of having wine at dinner or always having alcohol. As I said traditionally there is always alcohol at our wedding. It seems not to be the case with CMG. However, both of us follow etiquette by not making our guests pay for whatever we choose to put on the bar.

Sometimes etiquette and tradition cross paths.

emmaaa · June 2014

CMGragain said:

MobKaz said:

CMGragain said:

How old does something have to be to qualify as a tradition?

I never heard of the garter toss until about 30 years ago.
Open bar at a reception is relatively new.
Outdoor weddings were new in the 1970s.
Tuxedos were new for weddings in the 1950s.

How do you define "relatively new"? I married 36 years ago and we most definitely had an open bar.

Prohibition ended 80 years ago, but attitudes about drinking changed very slowly, especially in rural areas. In Iowa, when I was married, alcohol could only be purchased at a state owned and controlled liquor store. Open bar would have only been possible at a venue with a liquor license, such as a restaurant or country club.

I don't agree with this. Maybe some rural areas but not many. A lot of people in rural areas didn't ever change their views on alcohol even during prohibition and the reason moonshine was made and NASCAR exists. Thank you NC.

Inkdancer · June 2014

ohannabelle said:

lyndausvi said:

CMGragain said:

How old does something have to be to qualify as a tradition?

I never heard of the garter toss until about 30 years ago.
Open bar at a reception is relatively new.
Outdoor weddings were new in the 1970s.
Tuxedos were new for weddings in the 1950s.

It drives me batty when you say this. Maybe in your social group that might be true. My family has had open bars at EVERY event dating back to before my grandparents got married. They got married in 1930. EVERY event, wedding or otherwise had free booze. Even during Prohibition when my grandfather made bath tub gin.

And when I say every event, I mean weddings, baby showers, 1st birthdays, funerals and wakes. Anytime 2 or more family members were together alcohol was offered. Not always drank, but it was always offered. And my grandparents are far from rich.

I realize my family might not be the norm so I do not go around speaking about things as a given for every social group. I'm very specific to say in MY social group.

Good to know that my family wasn't the only one crossing the legal line back then.

My family loves to tell the story of when Grammy hid her moonshine under Uncle Mark in his crib so the revenuers wouldn't find it.

ashleyep · June 2014

I can't imagine that when CMGragain of all people says open bars are relatively new that she meant cash bars were common before that. Perhaps she meant either no alcohol at all, or a limited hosted bar (beer/wine).

That being said, it might be true in her circles, but I'd be shocked if that was universal.

Marzipan13 · June 2014

ElcaB said:

I don't know, but as a former show choir geek, I couldn't resist posting this:

I see your Tevye, AND I RAISE YOU ONE TEVYE

HeatherKat · June 2014

Marzipan13 said:

ElcaB said:

I don't know, but as a former show choir geek, I couldn't resist posting this:

I see your Tevye, AND I RAISE YOU ONE TEVYE

Tevya Shimmy:

JennyColada · June 2014

My mom buys a bunch of frozen appetizers that she cooks for dinner on New Years Eve, and on Thanksgiving we each (mom, dad, me) get our own pie to eat all on our own (any flavor we want). We've done these things for 17 years.

I refer to them as "family traditions", and they are things that I want to do for my family as well.

So what someone refers to as a "tradition" really varies, and is kind of random. The way I figure, if I want to do it just because someone else did it, then I consider it a tradition.

CMGragain · June 2014

I was thinking of Fiddler on the Roof when I posted the question!

Alcohol was not always associated with weddings. Fifty years ago, most weddings were in church in the afternoon, with cake and punch receptions. Then, the wedding industry stepped in, encouraged by Hollywood. (Goodbye, Columbus)

In Iowa, Catholic weddings were known to have alcohol, dancing, and to be more of a party atmosphere than most Protestant weddings. There were exceptions, of course, but nobody expected an expensive dinner with open bar in 1960. Cash bar? No way! When my mother was married in 1970, there was a family fuss about the presence of alcohol at the reception. Our side of the family was Methodist/Presbyterian, which is rather tolerant, but eyebrows were raised. It amuses me to read that modern brides worry that NOT having open bar might be rude. What a change!

CheleLyn · June 2014

MagicInk said:

lolo883 said:

Definitely about mindset and expectations within a social circle rather than a period of time. We have traditions in my family that only go back a few years, but we see them as traditions and expect for them to continue. But just because they're our tradition doesn't mean I expect other people to follow them.

In my circle, bouquet and garter tosses are tradition; putting the garter onto whoever catches the bouquet is not.

Yeah I've only heard of that here. In my circle they just catch it and it's done and over with. Maybe the people pose for a picture together but that's about it.

In my group of friends we always seem to try to get whatever kids are there to catch the flowers/garter. Because it's cute and the kids get all excited when we cheer for them for catching a thing.

It's very common in my area. Almost all receptions here are unspoken adult, although that doesn't mean there won't be a few kids. The adults are always excited about the garter/bouquet catch and putting the garter on the receiver. I mentioned not doing that to several of our guests and they were disappointed it may not be done. Of course, I will say that the people in our circle who would be participating are all super close and make a big deal about it. I'm still not sold.

Dollar dance is also common....THAT one, I have nixed!

Also, I've never been to a cash bar reception....well, there was the reception that was held in a restaurant where everyone paid for their own food AND drink. One glass of hosted champagne is not acceptable...give me the whole damn bottle at the very least!

ashleyep · June 2014

CMGragain said:

I was thinking of Fiddler on the Roof when I posted the question!

Alcohol was not always associated with weddings. Fifty years ago, most weddings were in church in the afternoon, with cake and punch receptions. Then, the wedding industry stepped in, encouraged by Hollywood. (Goodbye, Columbus)

In Iowa, Catholic weddings were known to have alcohol, dancing, and to be more of a party atmosphere than most Protestant weddings. There were exceptions, of course, but nobody expected an expensive dinner with open bar in 1960. Cash bar? No way! When my mother was married in 1970, there was a family fuss about the presence of alcohol at the reception. Our side of the family was Methodist/Presbyterian, which is rather tolerant, but eyebrows were raised. It amuses me to read that modern brides worry that NOT having open bar might be rude. What a change!

Roger Sterling's daughter's wedding in Mad Men begs to differ!

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