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Religious intolerance

I'm just so over it. Started with the living together thread, and then I just made the horrible mistake of glancing at my cousin's Facebook page... dammit Lolo, you have her hidden for a reason!

Cousin is the insufferable born-again religious type (not that they all are, but she is). The type who believes her duty as a wife is to just lay there and be a breeding machine for her husband. No birth control whatsoever, including the phrase "I have a headache." Not allowed, shut your mouth and open your legs. This has led her to 8 pregnancies in 12 years (6 kids, 2 miscarriages). She doesn't work, and he rarely works, so she grows their food, including rabbits and chickens, in the yard. 

Well they recently moved out to a bigger piece of land, and she's trying to get an actual farm off the ground. She asked today what the process was for slaughtering lambs according to Halal. (Apparently she's incapable of using teh Googles.) I told her it has to be done by a Muslim who invokes the name of God, the throat is slit for a quick death, allowing all the blood to drain, without cutting the spinal cord. Told her if she was considering this for her farm, she can't do the slaughter because she's Christian. She says no, someone approached her about just raising the lambs, to be slaughtered elsewhere and sold in a nearby, highly-Muslim town. And that she's no longer considering it because of what I told her. Oh, aren't you special. I added that the rules for just raising the lambs are quite humane - stipulations for giving the proper care, allowing them to breed, and live to a certain age before they're killed, and to die a dignified death. Still no. Someone chimes in "the name of Allah is invoked, not God." 

Um I'm sorry, that's the same thing, different language. I believe there's one God, who different religions relate to and interpret differently. But even if it's not the same god, and they're praying to something you don't believe in, what difference does it make to you?? You're in SUCH desperate need of money but you'll turn it down because ew, Muslims?? Are you KIDDING me? She's made some other posts about not eating at restaurants that announce they're Halal, because she doesn't want to eat anything that was blessed in another religion. Just doesn't make sense to me. You can bless something in Klingon and believe it with everything in you, but it doesn't mean anything to me. Gimme the burger.

/endrant.

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Re: Religious intolerance

  • KatieinBklnKatieinBkln (NO SLEEP TIL) Brooklyn! member
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    Yeah, none of this shit makes any sense to me, either. Especially the Muslim-Christian-Jew hate. Like, dudes, they call you the People of the Book because you all started in the same place. Same god. I'm not so naive as to say there's no serious differences among the three traditions; of course there are. But they've all got more in common than they'd probably like to admit.

    In general, it always makes me sad when I see people declining to use the brains (they believe) god gave 'em. You need money, you got lambs? Sell those lambs! (And I will have your cousin know that Halal meat is delicious, and some of the only street-cart meat I trust).
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  • theartistformerlyknownastheartistformerlyknownas peaced out. member
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    Yeah, none of this shit makes any sense to me, either. Especially the Muslim-Christian-Jew hate. Like, dudes, they call you the People of the Book because you all started in the same place. Same god. I'm not so naive as to say there's no serious differences among the three traditions; of course there are. But they've all got more in common than they'd probably like to admit.

    In general, it always makes me sad when I see people declining to use the brains (they believe) god gave 'em. You need money, you got lambs? Sell those lambs! (And I will have your cousin know that Halal meat is delicious, and some of the only street-cart meat I trust).
    Seriously! I'm so much more offended by inhumanely-treated animals and improperly-handled meat than I am by anyone praying over my food. 

    People are piling onto the FB post now saying "it's not even close to the same thing!" Ugh, unsubscribe.

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  • KatieinBklnKatieinBkln (NO SLEEP TIL) Brooklyn! member
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    Yeah, none of this shit makes any sense to me, either. Especially the Muslim-Christian-Jew hate. Like, dudes, they call you the People of the Book because you all started in the same place. Same god. I'm not so naive as to say there's no serious differences among the three traditions; of course there are. But they've all got more in common than they'd probably like to admit.

    In general, it always makes me sad when I see people declining to use the brains (they believe) god gave 'em. You need money, you got lambs? Sell those lambs! (And I will have your cousin know that Halal meat is delicious, and some of the only street-cart meat I trust).
    Seriously! I'm so much more offended by inhumanely-treated animals and improperly-handled meat than I am by anyone praying over my food. 

    People are piling onto the FB post now saying "it's not even close to the same thing!" Ugh, unsubscribe.
    Some people love to remain ignorant even in the face of good information. I usually don't mind until I remember that they vote. :(
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  • larrygagalarrygaga Czechoslovakia member
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    Her poor children :(

    My uncle and his whole family ran away to Montana(we think it's Montana) to be in a cult. We don't know a whole lot about the cult, they aren't allowed to talk to us.  They all live in a house with 5 other families. The two older sons dropped out of college and high school respectively to earn enough money for the family to survive. My aunt is like your cousin, a breeding machine. Good thing she's too old to bring any more children into her terrible cult. I just feel bad for my cousins, who are sort of close in age to me so I grew up with and was very close to them. At least once a week for my entire life our two families got together for a game night and dinner. I haven't seen the family in 3 years, and we never even got to say goodbye. My uncle finally called my dad a few months ago, after two years of absolutely no communication. It really sucks, and it's sickening what it's doing to my cousins, who really had no choice. My older cousin was in college at the time they left, and he was going to be a doctor. They told him it's either he drops out of school to follow them into the cult, or he will never see them again. 

    I am totally fine with any and all religions, except ones where it's required to ruin your child's life. I wonder what kind of lessons your cousins are learning from their parents? Probably the same mine are. BAD ONES
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  • JCbride2015JCbride2015 Dirty Jerz member
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    My Facebook is becoming a proxy battleground between several of my extremely pro-Israel Jewish friends, and pro-Palestinian Muslim friends (and human rights lovers in general) and it kills me because everyone is just talking past each other.  The hatred that has built up after so many generations of people hating each other because they are different sickens me.  And then I start feeling really anxious about the state of the world.

    But back to the more light-hearted topic of lamb slaughtering.  I actually prefer to eat Halal or Kosher if I'm eating street meat or a hot dog.  I like to know there are some standards for how the food was prepared!  
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  • theartistformerlyknownastheartistformerlyknownas peaced out. member
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    Ugh Larry that's awful. This cousin is only 31, so she has lots of breeding years left. Her poor kids are always dirty (she makes soap out of beef tallow, so even when they're "clean" they smell like fast food). They only ever interact with people who are just like them - no exposure to other viewpoints or lifestyles whatsoever.

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  • AddieCakeAddieCake Beyond the Wall member
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    JFC
    What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14
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  • I wish I had more to contribute, other than reading your posts and completely agreeing! I am not religious myself, but I try to learn about different faiths and I always respect people's varying faiths. I wish all religious people could extend the same courtesy to those of other, or no, religions (don't get me wrong, there are certainly lots of accepting religious folks out there as well--I just feel like they're not as visible). 
  • chibiyuichibiyui The Boring Part of MD member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary 5 Answers
    edited July 2014
    This makes me think of this passage.

    9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roofL)" data-cr="#cen-NIV-27269L" style="box-sizing: border-box; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;"> to pray. 
    10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.M)" data-cr="#cen-NIV-27270M" style="box-sizing: border-box; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;"> 11 He saw heaven opened N)" data-cr="#cen-NIV-27271N" style="box-sizing: border-box; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;">and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
    14 “Surely not, Lord!”O)" data-cr="#cen-NIV-27274O" style="font-size: small; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; box-sizing: border-box; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
    15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

    16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

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    Anniversary
  • I deal with people like that all time. I know I've talked about the fact that I'm an anthropologist but my main focus of study is religion. So when I'm doing research I very often have to talk to and observe extremely close minded and sometimes down right hateful people. There is an awful lot of hate out there and it is extremely sad. The worst part, for me anyway, is seeing the kids who are raised by these hateful people and are being taught to think, feel, and act in the same way.
  • One of the really good ideas held by the Prophet Mohammad was to insist that devout Muslims TRAVEL to Mecca once in their lifetime.  It got them out of their little communities to see what some of the rest of the world is like.

    God
    Gott
    Dieu
    Dios
    Deus
    Dio
    El
    Allah

    Studying foreign languages helps, too.
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    theartistformerlyknownasJCbride2015morphemeschibiyui
  • When we were about 14 years old, my friend announce to a room full of mostly Jewish people that she couldn't eat Kosher food because it was against her (Catholic) religion. At least she was only 14 at the time; your cousin is a grown adult. There shouldn't be any excuse for that much ignorance.
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  • JCbride2015JCbride2015 Dirty Jerz member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary First Answer
    I think I'll stop and get some stuffed grape leaves on the way home to counteract the judgyhateness. Maybe some shawarma. Ooh maybe I should get some Mexican Coke to stick it to my aunts who are currently all pissy that some of those refugee kids are going to be housed in our state. To which I wanted to reply:
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    This little quote made its was onto my News Feed and I love it.

    And now I want Turkish food.  Damn.

    Maybe I'll make some hummus.  My grandmother calls it "That Muslim dip."  Ha.  She doesn't know what she's missing out on.
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  • theartistformerlyknownastheartistformerlyknownas peaced out. member
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    LMAO at "Muslim dip!"

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  • I want hummus so badly now...spicy hummus!
  • bethsmilesbethsmiles Denver, CO member
    10000 Comments Sixth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    My brother is ubber evangelical and posts a lot of judgmental crap on his FB page. 

    The other day he said he was deleting Emoticons from his phone because they promote the gay lifestyle. 

    My grandma refuses to see my aunt's new relationship as valid because she is a divorced woman. Aunt and her current FI are planning to get married next year and my grandma says she won't go to that wedding. All in the name of doctrine interpretation. 

    I really can't with you religion. Makes me want to punch you in the belly for the stupid things people do in your name. 

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    WTF?!

    Intolerance that stems from anything pisses me off. It pisses me off and makes me sad when it stems from religions that supposedly teach love and respect. I minored in anthropology in my undergrad and I loved learning about other culture's belief systems. It boggles my mind when people don't even want to try to understand what others believe, they just want to hate them because they're different.

    @lolo883 - I actually believe there is one God that different religions related to and understand differently as well.


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  • JCbride2015JCbride2015 Dirty Jerz member
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    morphemes said:
    I want hummus so badly now...spicy hummus!
    I just made roasted red pepper hummus.  You guys can share mine!  
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  • AlexisA01AlexisA01 Dubai, my royal playground. member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited July 2014
    Speaking of religious intolerance,  I would like some advice regarding this situation. I recently got back in touch with an old college friend to was lightly religious and eventually she became a hardcore christian. I stopped speaking with her after a while because she used to (her words) "pleasantly sin" such as drink, have sex with men and women, party, and spoke pot then she eventually started shaming people who have sex, drinks, or ties involved with the LGBTQI etc community. She used to be very tolerant and accepting and when I stopped speaking with her was when she was at the point where she tried to save everyone (no matter if they were apart of another religion). 
    I spoke to her in person and everything was fine until I spoke to her on Facebook in a Private Message and over the phone, then that became a shit storm.  She expressed that she is great in life because that is what God guided her and then I feel like it was  jab because she mentioned if people choose the right path, their life would be at an amazing place and it disappoints her that all her friends are tainted and need to be saved. She knows I practice Islam and my FI is another religion. I wish to remain friends with her but at what cost. I hate that I am always biting my tongue with her because every conversation has to be religiously deep, she makes derogatory comments regarding people who LGBTQI, or tries to save everyone involved with her life. ETA: The moment anyone speaks about their own religion or when she asked me how was Ramadan (at the grocery store where I reconnected), she would take a long pause saying, "Oh my! My God would never allow their people to starve for a month just to prove a point about loyalty.

    Live fast, die young. Bad Girls do it well. Suki Zuki.

  • JCbride2015JCbride2015 Dirty Jerz member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary First Answer
    edited July 2014
    AlexisA01 said:
    Speaking of religious intolerance,  I would like some advice regarding this situation. I recently got back in touch with an old college friend to was lightly religious and eventually she became a hardcore christian. I stopped speaking with her after a while because she used to (her words) "pleasantly sin" such as drink, have sex with men and women, party, and spoke pot then she eventually started shaming people who have sex, drinks, or ties involved with the LGBTQI etc community. She used to be very tolerant and accepting and when I stopped speaking with her was when she was at the point where she tried to save everyone (no matter if they were apart of another religion). 
    I spoke to her in person and everything was fine until I spoke to her on Facebook in a Private Message and over the phone, then that became a shit storm.  She expressed that she is great in life because that is what God guided her and then I feel like it was  jab because she mentioned if people choose the right path, their life would be at an amazing place and it disappoints her that all her friends are tainted and need to be saved. She knows I practice Islam and my FI is another religion. I wish to remain friends with her but at what cost. I hate that I am always biting my tongue with her because every conversation has to be religiously deep, she makes derogatory comments regarding people who LGBTQI, or tries to save everyone involved with her life. ETA: The moment anyone speaks about their own religion or when she asked me how was Ramadan (at the grocery store where I reconnected), she would take a long pause saying, "Oh my! My God would never allow their people to starve for a month just to prove a point about loyalty.
    Honest question, not meant to be snarky: why do you want to remain friends with this person?
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  • AlexisA01AlexisA01 Dubai, my royal playground. member
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    AlexisA01 said:
    Speaking of religious intolerance,  I would like some advice regarding this situation. I recently got back in touch with an old college friend to was lightly religious and eventually she became a hardcore christian. I stopped speaking with her after a while because she used to (her words) "pleasantly sin" such as drink, have sex with men and women, party, and spoke pot then she eventually started shaming people who have sex, drinks, or ties involved with the LGBTQI etc community. She used to be very tolerant and accepting and when I stopped speaking with her was when she was at the point where she tried to save everyone (no matter if they were apart of another religion). 
    I spoke to her in person and everything was fine until I spoke to her on Facebook in a Private Message and over the phone, then that became a shit storm.  She expressed that she is great in life because that is what God guided her and then I feel like it was  jab because she mentioned if people choose the right path, their life would be at an amazing place and it disappoints her that all her friends are tainted and need to be saved. She knows I practice Islam and my FI is another religion. I wish to remain friends with her but at what cost. I hate that I am always biting my tongue with her because every conversation has to be religiously deep, she makes derogatory comments regarding people who LGBTQI, or tries to save everyone involved with her life. ETA: The moment anyone speaks about their own religion or when she asked me how was Ramadan (at the grocery store where I reconnected), she would take a long pause saying, "Oh my! My God would never allow their people to starve for a month just to prove a point about loyalty.
    Honest question, not meant to be snarky: why do you want to remain friends with this person?


    Part of me wants to stay friends with her because when I got into that car accident few years ago, she was the only one of my friends who was there. She stayed over my place and was always there for me and helped me with rehabilitation. We had such a rich history and that is why I am somewhat torn on what do. 

    Live fast, die young. Bad Girls do it well. Suki Zuki.

  • JCbride2015JCbride2015 Dirty Jerz member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary First Answer
    @AlexisA01 Yeah, I see that history has a lot of pull with friendships.  But it sounds like she has changed drastically, and not for the better.  I'd really reevaluate whether she's making your life better by being in it.

    You could try to avoid religious topics with her, but it sounds like she's going to turn the conversation in that direction no matter what.  And my guess is that approaching her about it directly, by asking her to refrain from trying to "save" you, would just inflame her more. :-/  I'm sorry you're dealing with this.
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  • AlexisA01AlexisA01 Dubai, my royal playground. member
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    @AlexisA01 Yeah, I see that history has a lot of pull with friendships.  But it sounds like she has changed drastically, and not for the better.  I'd really reevaluate whether she's making your life better by being in it.

    You could try to avoid religious topics with her, but it sounds like she's going to turn the conversation in that direction no matter what.  And my guess is that approaching her about it directly, by asking her to refrain from trying to "save" you, would just inflame her more. :-/  I'm sorry you're dealing with this.




    I also didn't think you were snarky, I forgot to mention that. I agree that she changed and not for the better. I try to avoid them but with her she is against so much that I sit on the phone in silence thinking of something that is neutral to talk about, such as squirrels or peanut butter.  It turns into a religious session. You are spot on with everything...it's very painful to see this friendship end over that.

    Live fast, die young. Bad Girls do it well. Suki Zuki.

  • goldchocobo.defunct635829490514903826goldchocobo.defunct635829490514903826 I'm Canadian, eh! member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer Name Dropper
    edited July 2014
    Just show your cousin this!

    ETA: Because that means she can be critisized right back!

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  • AlexisA01AlexisA01 Dubai, my royal playground. member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    smichek said:
    AlexisA01 said:
    AlexisA01 said:
    Speaking of religious intolerance,  I would like some advice regarding this situation. I recently got back in touch with an old college friend to was lightly religious and eventually she became a hardcore christian. I stopped speaking with her after a while because she used to (her words) "pleasantly sin" such as drink, have sex with men and women, party, and spoke pot then she eventually started shaming people who have sex, drinks, or ties involved with the LGBTQI etc community. She used to be very tolerant and accepting and when I stopped speaking with her was when she was at the point where she tried to save everyone (no matter if they were apart of another religion). 
    I spoke to her in person and everything was fine until I spoke to her on Facebook in a Private Message and over the phone, then that became a shit storm.  She expressed that she is great in life because that is what God guided her and then I feel like it was  jab because she mentioned if people choose the right path, their life would be at an amazing place and it disappoints her that all her friends are tainted and need to be saved. She knows I practice Islam and my FI is another religion. I wish to remain friends with her but at what cost. I hate that I am always biting my tongue with her because every conversation has to be religiously deep, she makes derogatory comments regarding people who LGBTQI, or tries to save everyone involved with her life. ETA: The moment anyone speaks about their own religion or when she asked me how was Ramadan (at the grocery store where I reconnected), she would take a long pause saying, "Oh my! My God would never allow their people to starve for a month just to prove a point about loyalty.
    Honest question, not meant to be snarky: why do you want to remain friends with this person?


    Part of me wants to stay friends with her because when I got into that car accident few years ago, she was the only one of my friends who was there. She stayed over my place and was always there for me and helped me with rehabilitation. We had such a rich history and that is why I am somewhat torn on what do. 
    That's kind of where FI and I are at with our church. They were there for him when he had cancer but now they are treating us like shit. We're fairly certain we're just going to leave the church because it's not worth it to surround yourself with negativity and someone who will only bring you down. She is not being much of a friend to you now.
    I read your ordeal...and that is shitty. I have no words that express how frustrating and insane it was reading your situation.  Sending internet hugs to you.

    Live fast, die young. Bad Girls do it well. Suki Zuki.

  • wandajune6wandajune6 Chicago-ish member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary First Answer
    My dad grew up on tent revivals in the south. My mom's first generation American, the daughter of German and Russian Jews. I grew up culturally Jewish but was always told that our family doesn't believe in god or organized religion. Basically, we're secular humanists. Other than some awful sleepovers with religious friends in elementary school, all was good.

    FI is Mexican catholic. He's not religious but he's catholic. Meeting me clarified that in his head. His family knows my family is Jewish but we play down the atheist side because we know it would make people uncomfortable. I have mixed feelings about that approach but, given that I don't care about religion and they're not religious, I've let it go.

    I have no problem being known as a Jew but an atheist is a lot harder to make people comfortable with. (And, to be honest, that I have mixed feelings about.)

    We're just now having our first real run-ins with intolerance. My aunts (southern Christian) won't come to the wedding because I'm marrying a catholic (the non-white part is also a problem but they're "trying to be open-minded." They seem to have forgotten that I wasn't raised Christian either. It seemed to surprise them when I told them that I was sorry they wouldn't be able to attend. My dad was proud of me.

    Since becoming so involved in FI's family, I've learned so much about the stereotypes associated with Jews- things I never heard growing up. When we discuss news there is an assumption that all Jews think the same- ironic given their outrage about people making the same assumptions about them. I can't help but wonder what the world would be like if we just forgot these assumptions.
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