Courthouse marriage, ceremony later

mrs4everhart · July 2014

STBMrsEverhart said:

STBMrsEverhart said:

freebread03 said:

I still can't believe some of the comments here telling her it's ok to do both because it's "just the legal stuff" or it's "just signing the papers". Really?! So when I marry my fiance next month, its "just the legal stuff" or "just paperwork" to some of you? That is so incredibly insulting.

OP, either do the whole shebang now, or wait until later to get married. You can't have both. But you CAN have a very nice JOP ceremony, and celebrate a wonderful first year of marriage on your 1 year anniversary or something similar.

Strangers on the internet can actually insult you? That's just crazy talk!
I'm not sure why I'm wasting my breath, but here it goes. She wasn't saying she was personally insulted. However, it is insulting in a general sense. Example- I was once told on here that I didn't have a real wedding because I eloped. I wasn't personally hurt over it, but it was an ignorant comment that basically said eloping wasn't a meaningful thing.
I think there's way too much sensitivity present any time anyone truly cares about the opinions of strangers. In your case @Jells2dot0‌, you know you had a real wedding in the fashion of your choosing. So some crazy lady doesn't agree? Who cares? Maybe the woman doesn't like elopements? Best bet for her would be not eloping. I read all sorts of things on here daily I don't agree with. I'm not going to get offended about it.

Just hypothetically though, isn't there a difference between "being offended" and acknowledging that something is offensive? I think so. In fact, I think that's kind of the whole point of etiquette: behaving in a way that is least likely to offend others. Maybe no one in your group actually WOULD be offended by X behavior, but the best practice is to avoid things that people could reasonably find offensive. If your options are between doing potentially offensive thing X or certainly appropriate thing Y, pick thing Y.

I think a lot of shit is objectively offensive and shitty to say, and I can acknowledge that fact without being personally irritated in any way.
I'm not certain that acknowledging that there's a marked difference between signing a marriage license and having some sort of ceremony is offensive. People can allow themselves to find TONS of things offensive while being personally offended or not. But I think this subject as a whole has created a group mindset in society of being overly sensitive, easily offended and PC. No thanks. I guess that's where we all have lines to draw in the sand. What one person may think others could get reasonably offended about and what the next person thinks can be SO very different. And I'm not certain that crafting an idea or concept around a very small minority is always the best plan. The advice of "even if one guest is offended by XYZ it's too many" doesn't play for me. And if that one guest happens to be Aunt Sally who is still offended by Elvis' performance on Ed Sullivan? Sorry, she's not going to be my litmus test. But I digress bc for me it's so simple. .
Treat others as you'd like to be treated And take opinions from the peanut gallery with a grain of salt.
So, you wouldn't mind being lied to on purpose by someone who claims to care about you? Because that's what you are doing to your guests. I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I just cannot fathom lying to a whole group of people who I claim to care about for something that in my mind is quite selfish.

Edited: Stuck in the damn box again! Gah!

I would unequivocally NOT be offended if someone signed their marriage license privately then invited me to be a guest at their ceremony/reception without telling me of their previously signed license. It wouldn't even occur to me to be upset about such a thing. It just doesn't seem like something to be upset about. But I consider the two things two parts of one whole, one I'd want to witness (the ceremony) one I could take or leave (viewing the signing of the license) neither of which do I think need to be dealt with at the same time and place. I suppose that is how our decisions came to us, as our plan passed the "what if we were guests in this situation" test pretty easily.

mrs4everhart · July 2014

KatieinBkln said:

STBMrsEverhart said:

STBMrsEverhart said:

freebread03 said:

I still can't believe some of the comments here telling her it's ok to do both because it's "just the legal stuff" or it's "just signing the papers". Really?! So when I marry my fiance next month, its "just the legal stuff" or "just paperwork" to some of you? That is so incredibly insulting.

OP, either do the whole shebang now, or wait until later to get married. You can't have both. But you CAN have a very nice JOP ceremony, and celebrate a wonderful first year of marriage on your 1 year anniversary or something similar.

Strangers on the internet can actually insult you? That's just crazy talk!
I'm not sure why I'm wasting my breath, but here it goes. She wasn't saying she was personally insulted. However, it is insulting in a general sense. Example- I was once told on here that I didn't have a real wedding because I eloped. I wasn't personally hurt over it, but it was an ignorant comment that basically said eloping wasn't a meaningful thing.
I think there's way too much sensitivity present any time anyone truly cares about the opinions of strangers. In your case @Jells2dot0‌, you know you had a real wedding in the fashion of your choosing. So some crazy lady doesn't agree? Who cares? Maybe the woman doesn't like elopements? Best bet for her would be not eloping. I read all sorts of things on here daily I don't agree with. I'm not going to get offended about it.

Just hypothetically though, isn't there a difference between "being offended" and acknowledging that something is offensive? I think so. In fact, I think that's kind of the whole point of etiquette: behaving in a way that is least likely to offend others. Maybe no one in your group actually WOULD be offended by X behavior, but the best practice is to avoid things that people could reasonably find offensive. If your options are between doing potentially offensive thing X or certainly appropriate thing Y, pick thing Y.

I think a lot of shit is objectively offensive and shitty to say, and I can acknowledge that fact without being personally irritated in any way.
I'm not certain that acknowledging that there's a marked difference between signing a marriage license and having some sort of ceremony is offensive. People can allow themselves to find TONS of things offensive while being personally offended or not. But I think this subject as a whole has created a group mindset in society of being overly sensitive, easily offended and PC. No thanks. I guess that's where we all have lines to draw in the sand. What one person may think others could get reasonably offended about and what the next person thinks can be SO very different. And I'm not certain that crafting an idea or concept around a very small minority is always the best plan. The advice of "even if one guest is offended by XYZ it's too many" doesn't play for me. And if that one guest happens to be Aunt Sally who is still offended by Elvis' performance on Ed Sullivan? Sorry, she's not going to be my litmus test. But I digress bc for me it's so simple. Treat others as you'd like to be treated. And take opinions from the peanut gallery with a grain of salt.

See, the bolded is a legitimate difference of opinion, and one that we could argue, if we were so inclined. I don't think anyone is inclined to argue that, old news as it were. It is definitely a legit difference of opinion, but I don't think either opinion is offensive. But calling people out for being "so thin-skinned" and "allowing" internet strangers to "upset" them is a total red herring. No one is probably sitting at home quivering with rage about anything that's reported on these boards. Hmm, hard to say. All they're really doing is participating in a much more general intellectual exercise: Would you find X thing offensive? Do the rules of etiquette say anything about what I might want to do? Sure, some people might find certain things really upsetting when they come across them in real life, but that's hardly what these boards are about, apart from the occasional vent. Giving people the Eleanor Roosevelt treatment (people can only make you feel inferior if you let them!) just strikes me as an awfully convenient, if not deliberate, misunderstanding of what a forum is about, especially since it sets you up as being so above the rest of us emotional "PC" people. So everyone else is just participating in intellectual discourse. Meanwhile, my opinion that you really do control your own feelings is just automatically discounted as a convenient farce? It can't possibly be truly how I feel and respected like everyone else's opinion? People are allowed to disagree with your ideas and even find them (generally) offensive without it making them sheep who only believe what they believe because they want to cater to a vocal minority. Yes, people are certainly allowed to disagree, I don't dispute that. I just don't see any point in posting specifically to announce that I find others' opinions offensive. It doesn't make everyone else "sensitive" while you're super cool. It just means that they care about different things or find it worthwhile to consider whether something is generally offensive or potentially upsetting.

KatieinBkln · July 2014

. So everyone else is just participating in intellectual discourse. Meanwhile, my opinion that you really do control your own feelings is just automatically discounted as a convenient farce? It can't possibly be truly how I feel and respected like everyone else's opinion?

Not at all! That's a legitimate opinion, and one that is probably healthy to have in general life. But my point comes down to context. Accusing someone of allowing internet strangers to make them feel bad, in this particular instance, is not particularly apt since it misunderstands the very nature of their statement that "X thing is offensive." I also found it to be kind of a rhetorical dirty trick, since it distracts from the actual topic at hand, which is etiquette. Your comment about controlling one's own feelings came across to me like a more intellectual version of, "LOL, u mad?" which I don't think ever has a place in reasonable discussion.

mrs4everhart · July 2014

KatieinBkln said:

. So everyone else is just participating in intellectual discourse. Meanwhile, my opinion that you really do control your own feelings is just automatically discounted as a convenient farce? It can't possibly be truly how I feel and respected like everyone else's opinion?

Not at all! That's a legitimate opinion, and one that is probably healthy to have in general life. But my point comes down to context. Accusing someone of allowing internet strangers to make them feel bad, in this particular instance, is not particularly apt since it misunderstands the very nature of their statement that "X thing is offensive." I also found it to be kind of a rhetorical dirty trick, since it distracts from the actual topic at hand, which is etiquette. Your comment about controlling one's own feelings came across to me like a more intellectual version of, "LOL, u mad?" which I don't think ever has a place in reasonable discussion.

SIB*******************************

I really didn't mean it in a "You mad, bro" kind of way. I just really think labeling others' honest to god opinions as "offensive" because they don't align with yours (plural yours) is inappropriate. Yes, we can all parse etiquette but I think in order for etiquette to thrive it has to change and modify with the times and circumstances. I think saying something is a rule and therefore should be followed solely on the fact that it's a rule, is well, a bit sheepish yes. I really do believe that the "know your crowd" thinking should be embraced more often because it's far more authentic than saying well, on this subject Ms. Manner's says XYZ on page 376654 of her book and therefore should be taken as gospel no matter what.

There really are people for example who do not believe that licensing and ceremonies should be held in the same regard. I completely understand that some people think that that type of thinking is incorrect, but labeling it wrong or offensive misses the mark. I don't believe that most of us who hold this view do so just to piss people off, it's really how we feel. To assume that we give advice to be offensive because our opinions on certain subjects don't align with the rest of the group is disingenuous and just unfair (not that life is fair) if we're to consider these forums a place for honest discussion and healthy discourse.

Language is all we have to go by on the internet (when we run out of witty gifs) and use of words like "offensive" to me, when used far too often either tells me people really are becoming too sensitive to the activities of strangers in general as a society or it's just over-used and poorly applied. Much like "bully" and "mean" - I don't think disagreeing with someone and stating why in a constructive way is either of those things but man do we ever see a ton of people complaining they've been bullied by big meanies around here when they haven't.

KatieinBkln · July 2014

STBMrsEverhart said:

KatieinBkln said:

. So everyone else is just participating in intellectual discourse. Meanwhile, my opinion that you really do control your own feelings is just automatically discounted as a convenient farce? It can't possibly be truly how I feel and respected like everyone else's opinion?

Not at all! That's a legitimate opinion, and one that is probably healthy to have in general life. But my point comes down to context. Accusing someone of allowing internet strangers to make them feel bad, in this particular instance, is not particularly apt since it misunderstands the very nature of their statement that "X thing is offensive." I also found it to be kind of a rhetorical dirty trick, since it distracts from the actual topic at hand, which is etiquette. Your comment about controlling one's own feelings came across to me like a more intellectual version of, "LOL, u mad?" which I don't think ever has a place in reasonable discussion.

SIB*******************************

I really didn't mean it in a "You mad, bro" kind of way. I just really think labeling others' honest to god opinions as "offensive" because they don't align with yours (plural yours) is inappropriate. Yes, we can all parse etiquette but I think in order for etiquette to thrive it has to change and modify with the times and circumstances. I think saying something is a rule and therefore should be followed solely on the fact that it's a rule, is well, a bit sheepish yes. I really do believe that the "know your crowd" thinking should be embraced more often because it's far more authentic than saying well, on this subject Ms. Manner's says XYZ on page 376654 of her book and therefore should be taken as gospel no matter what.

There really are people for example who do not believe that licensing and ceremonies should be held in the same regard. I completely understand that some people think that that type of thinking is incorrect, but labeling it wrong or offensive misses the mark. I don't believe that most of us who hold this view do so just to piss people off, it's really how we feel. To assume that we give advice to be offensive because our opinions on certain subjects don't align with the rest of the group is disingenuous and just unfair (not that life is fair) if we're to consider these forums a place for honest discussion and healthy discourse.

Language is all we have to go by on the internet (when we run out of witty gifs) and use of words like "offensive" to me, when used far too often either tells me people really are becoming too sensitive to the activities of strangers in general as a society or it's just over-used and poorly applied. Much like "bully" and "mean" - I don't think disagreeing with someone and stating why in a constructive way is either of those things but man do we ever see a ton of people complaining they've been bullied by big meanies around here when they haven't.

This all seems fair to me. But would you really be okay if every instance of someone disagreeing with you on this topic replaced the word "offensive" with "incorrect"?

To the bolded, the whole point some people are making about calling PPDs offensive is the opposite of simply enforcing etiquette rules just because they're rules. They don't like the lying. The lying offends them. Nowhere do they say, "Ms. Manners told me that lying is against etiquette." So they aren't just blindly following a rulebook; they're explaining their reasoning. You clearly disagree with their assessment in this matter; okay. But which is it? They're too rigid about enforcing rule-book etiquette? Or they shouldn't take stuff so personally? Because it's either personal or it's rote rule-following. And for the record, saying that they find X or Y reasoning offensive is not the same thing as "assum[ing] that we give advice to be offensive" or holding a view "just to piss people off." Anyone who has read your multiple posts on this topic knows you aren't just playing Devil's advocate. If we all are supposed to assume that you hold your views in good faith, why shouldn't those holding the majority view be afforded that same courtesy? The majority is most likely the majority because people actually buy it, not just because they want to "belong."

tl;dr we can all agree to disagree without accusing each other of being either oversensitive or disingenuous.

ShesSoCold · July 2014

CMGragain said:

ShesSoCold said:

Can I add my own little story here?

40 days before my destination wedding, my dream princess day that took me a year and a half to plan (gag), my mom was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. Out of the blue. Whether or not she would be in chemo, she shouldn't be traveling. So we cancelled the wedding and planned a new one at home in less than one business day.

This notion that everyone "deserves" a "dream" wedding is horseshit and it makes me sad. Not because of the bratty entitled attitudes (which are sad, yes) but because people somehow seem to think that a pretty dress and pretty pictures are what makes a wedding important, not the people involved.

I DGAF if we get married in the basement. As long as my dying mother is there, I'm going to be the happiest fucking bride because I know it's important to her. And to the rest of our families.

I hope these PPD brides sit down for a while and try to think about what is really, REALLY important to them on their wedding day. Not days, DAY. And do everyone a favor and grow the fuck up.

Just a sympathy post to you. I have stage 4 breast cancer. I do know people who have lived many years with this diagnosis with the help of good medical care. I plan to be one of them. Best wishes to you and your family. I hope your Mom has good luck with her treatment future.

Thanks CMGr. Unfortunately it appears that my mom's cancer is too far progressed. It's pancreatic and she chose not to do chemo. I'm spending as much time with her as I can and enjoying every moment.

T&P to you - I sincerely hope you are - and continue to be - a long-time survivor.

Knottie55689409 · March 2015

I agree with you, my fiancé and i are dual military and we are getting married in the courthouse for military obligation reason. we will not do any kind of celebration nor bachelorette party. However, next year we will be having our ceremony and reception as a normal wedding as a celebration and for the family to come and celebrate with us. I would personally would MUCH rather have a normal wedding and get legally married on the day of. However, things would be a lot difficult for us my fiancé and I. Also my family and his family live in a different state then we do and my fiancé is currently stationed in Europe while in stationed in the west coast. It is a very difficult situation for military. Not everyone will understand. I also see this happened in the military all the time. I disagree with peoples judgement. It is about how you feel on that date. Our wedding ceremony will be as meaningful as our legal courthouse wedding.

Knottie55689409 · March 2015

Im sorry this msg was not for you and i don't know how to delete it.

artbyallie · March 2015

Nope nope nope. It's entirely possible to just wait and do everything at the same time or plan in a shorter period of time. SIL planned her wedding in a month. It can be done.

Also, closing the zombie thread.

southernbelle0915 · March 2015

Knottie55689409 said:
I agree with you, my fiancé and i are dual military and we are getting married in the courthouse for military obligation reason. we will not do any kind of celebration nor bachelorette party. However, next year we will be having our ceremony and reception as a normal wedding as a celebration and for the family to come and celebrate with us. I would personally would MUCH rather have a normal wedding and get legally married on the day of. However, things would be a lot difficult for us my fiancé and I. Also my family and his family live in a different state then we do and my fiancé is currently stationed in Europe while in stationed in the west coast. It is a very difficult situation for military. Not everyone will understand. I also see this happened in the military all the time. I disagree with peoples judgement. It is about how you feel on that date. Our wedding ceremony will be as meaningful as our legal courthouse wedding.

This is the definition of a Pretty Princess Day. It's not "how you feel about the date"...either you got married on a certain day or you didn't. Pretty simple concept.

There's no issue with throwing a huge party to celebrate the fact that you got married a year ago, but dressing up and pretending to be a bride and groom is silly. You're not - you're a husband and wife.

Courthouse marriage, ceremony later

Re: Courthouse marriage, ceremony later

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