Expectation vs Gratituity

Nymeru · August 2014

I've served in restaurants off and on since I was 14 (serving makes a good summer job for teachers), and I will ALWAYS tip. I might not tip the server if the service was bad, but I will tip those who did right by us at the restaurant (host, busser, etc.), but I also am very aware of when things are out of the server's control and shouldn't be held against them. The kitchen is slammed? Not the server's fault. We sit, dying of dehydration while the server flirts with people? Totally on the server.

mysticl · August 2014

banana468 said:

banana468 said:

mysticl said:
No one is obligated to tip unless it is built into a contract they have signed. An obligation is something you have to do. You do not have to tip.
You sure don't. Unless you don't want to look like an asshole.
This. You ARE obligated to tip. It's a moral/social obligation but going out to eat and not tipping means you have failed to fulfill your social obligation. The restaurant can't have you arrested because it isn't a legal obligation but you're going to be viewed as a rather large ass-turd if you say that you don't tip because it's not a requirement.

I disagree. I see no social or moral obligation to tip anyone. We are just going to disagree on this and not change each other's minds.

I never said I don't tip because it's not a requirement. In fact I have stated at least twice that I do tip. However, I tip because I choose to, not because I feel obligated to or am afraid to be seen as an asshole. I would not end a friendship with someone because they chose not to tip.
You failing to see the obligation does not negate the existence of said obligation. The FACT that servers depend on tips as part of their salary is further evidence of the obligatory nature of tipping here in the United States. That you don't understand that others SHOULD tip is quite concerning.

Except they don't. Federal law does allow them to be paid as low as $2.13 an hour provided they earn enough tips to bring them up to the federal minimum wage. If they do not earn that amount in tips the employer (by law) must make up the difference in their salary so that they are earning the federal minimum wage.

lyndausvi · August 2014

It would be nice if they get ride of tips I guess. But I don't know anyone who will be a server or bartender for minimum wage. I sure has hell wouldn't. Working with the public can suck. The whole reason I do its because I make 20+ an hour. Sometimes upwards of $50 or more. Sometimes I've made less, but I've never mad only minimum wage. ::shrugs:: I would imagine meal prices would go up 25-30%. People are weird though. They will pay $10 for a burger and leave a $2 tip. But they will baulk at a $12 burger with no tip.

WinstonsGirl · August 2014

lyndausvi said:

It would be nice if they get ride of tips I guess. But I don't know anyone who will be a server or bartender for minimum wage. I sure has hell wouldn't. Working with the public can suck. The whole reason I do its because I make 20+ an hour. Sometimes upwards of $50 or more. Sometimes I've made less, but I've never mad only minimum wage. ::shrugs:: I would imagine meal prices would go up 25-30%. People are weird though. They will pay $10 for a burger and leave a $2 tip. But they will baulk at a $12 burger with no tip.

I don't know about price increases. When we were in Finland this summer, tips are included in the final bill total, and prices were the same as in other countries. We didn't notice an increase in price. Though I could see it happening here using higher pay as an excuse, even if it didn't cost more.

I also think people wouldn't work for no tips cos they're currently used to getting them. Lots of other people work retail/sales, etc. and don't receive tips. Many make minimum wage. I did it for 4 years myself, along with small raises each year. But to change it now, you're right, servers would fight that\

ETA - Clarity

mysticl · August 2014

lyndausvi said:

It would be nice if they get ride of tips I guess. But I don't know anyone who will be a server or bartender for minimum wage. I sure has hell wouldn't. Working with the public can suck. The whole reason I do its because I make 20+ an hour. Sometimes upwards of $50 or more. Sometimes I've made less, but I've never mad only minimum wage. ::shrugs:: I would imagine meal prices would go up 25-30%. People are weird though. They will pay $10 for a burger and leave a $2 tip. But they will baulk at a $12 burger with no tip.

I don't think restaurants should get rid of tips. I think the government should get rid of the law that allows people to be paid less if they can make it up with tips. I think that servers' legal base pay should be minimum wage and any tips they do make should be a true gratuity for giving exceptional service.

banana468 · August 2014

mysticl said:

banana468 said:

banana468 said:

mysticl said:
No one is obligated to tip unless it is built into a contract they have signed. An obligation is something you have to do. You do not have to tip.
You sure don't. Unless you don't want to look like an asshole.
This. You ARE obligated to tip. It's a moral/social obligation but going out to eat and not tipping means you have failed to fulfill your social obligation. The restaurant can't have you arrested because it isn't a legal obligation but you're going to be viewed as a rather large ass-turd if you say that you don't tip because it's not a requirement.

I disagree. I see no social or moral obligation to tip anyone. We are just going to disagree on this and not change each other's minds.

I never said I don't tip because it's not a requirement. In fact I have stated at least twice that I do tip. However, I tip because I choose to, not because I feel obligated to or am afraid to be seen as an asshole. I would not end a friendship with someone because they chose not to tip.
You failing to see the obligation does not negate the existence of said obligation. The FACT that servers depend on tips as part of their salary is further evidence of the obligatory nature of tipping here in the United States. That you don't understand that others SHOULD tip is quite concerning.

Except they don't. Federal law does allow them to be paid as low as $2.13 an hour provided they earn enough tips to bring them up to the federal minimum wage. If they do not earn that amount in tips the employer (by law) must make up the difference in their salary so that they are earning the federal minimum wage.

So they DEPEND ON TIPS AS PART OF THEIR SALARY!!!!!

If the employer is required to boost their hourly wage if the tips are lacking then this means that it assumes the tips would be given!

I also guarantee you that no establishment will keep a waiter/waitress on staff that requires this to be a constant practice.

I do think that we should pay servers better but in the meantime, you can bet that I'm going to be a good tipper.

mysticl · August 2014

banana468 said:

mysticl said:

banana468 said:

banana468 said:

mysticl said:
No one is obligated to tip unless it is built into a contract they have signed. An obligation is something you have to do. You do not have to tip.
You sure don't. Unless you don't want to look like an asshole.
This. You ARE obligated to tip. It's a moral/social obligation but going out to eat and not tipping means you have failed to fulfill your social obligation. The restaurant can't have you arrested because it isn't a legal obligation but you're going to be viewed as a rather large ass-turd if you say that you don't tip because it's not a requirement.

I disagree. I see no social or moral obligation to tip anyone. We are just going to disagree on this and not change each other's minds.

I never said I don't tip because it's not a requirement. In fact I have stated at least twice that I do tip. However, I tip because I choose to, not because I feel obligated to or am afraid to be seen as an asshole. I would not end a friendship with someone because they chose not to tip.
You failing to see the obligation does not negate the existence of said obligation. The FACT that servers depend on tips as part of their salary is further evidence of the obligatory nature of tipping here in the United States. That you don't understand that others SHOULD tip is quite concerning.

Except they don't. Federal law does allow them to be paid as low as $2.13 an hour provided they earn enough tips to bring them up to the federal minimum wage. If they do not earn that amount in tips the employer (by law) must make up the difference in their salary so that they are earning the federal minimum wage.

So they DEPEND ON TIPS AS PART OF THEIR SALARY!!!!!

If the employer is required to boost their hourly wage if the tips are lacking then this means that it assumes the tips would be given!

I also guarantee you that no establishment will keep a waiter/waitress on staff that requires this to be a constant practice.

I do think that we should pay servers better but in the meantime, you can bet that I'm going to be a good tipper.

Actually the law doesn't assume tips will be given. It only makes the allowance if tips are given. The employer cannot pay less than minimum if the employee does not make tips or does not make enough tips. You're right that an employer probably wouldn't keep someone around if they didn't make enough tips on a regular basis but it is not the fault of the customer if the employer is a cheapskate. And again I do tip and I can be quite generous. I just don't feel like I am morally obligated to do so and I will not base my friendships on how someone else feels about tipping. And I sure wouldn't physically assault a friend over not tipping as one PP suggested.

lyndausvi · August 2014

WinstonsGirl said:

lyndausvi said:

It would be nice if they get ride of tips I guess. But I don't know anyone who will be a server or bartender for minimum wage. I sure has hell wouldn't. Working with the public can suck. The whole reason I do its because I make 20+ an hour. Sometimes upwards of $50 or more. Sometimes I've made less, but I've never mad only minimum wage. ::shrugs:: I would imagine meal prices would go up 25-30%. People are weird though. They will pay $10 for a burger and leave a $2 tip. But they will baulk at a $12 burger with no tip.

I don't know about price increases. When we were in Finland this summer, tips are included in the final bill total, and prices were the same as in other countries. We didn't notice an increase in price. Though I could see it happening here using higher pay as an excuse, even if it didn't cost more.

I also think people wouldn't work for no tips cos they're currently used to getting them. Lots of other people work retail/sales, etc. and don't receive tips. Many make minimum wage. I did it for 4 years myself, along with small raises each year. But to change it now, you're right, servers would fight that\

ETA - Clarity

**** SITB *****

The price of food is determined by a lot of variables including labor costs. Right now most US places price out with a lower wage cost. Since waitstaff is going to damned more than minimum wage (which is what they get now if you include tips) it's stands to reason that the price of meals will increase. Restaurants run on tight margins already. Increasing the wage from $2.13 to double or more of minimum wage will result in meal price increases. Most mom and pop type places just do not make enough profit to cover the increase and be able to make money (which is the whole point of owning a business).

bride2b71614 · August 2014

I always tip at least 15%, even if the service is shitty. I am really embarrassed to admit this but here it goes: My FI and I were celebrating his birthday, and I decided to treat him to dinner at a small italian restaurant (not upscale by any means). The dinner was spoiled by the service. Our server was incredibly rude. He placed FI and I at a table really close to a stairwell (I am talking if you moved the chair an inch you'd go tumbling), when asked to change our table, he protested and eventually changed our table (the restaurant wasn't crowded, or even busy). He made us wait 25 minutes before he came back to our table (he was speaking to his other coworkers about other patrons). After ordering, we saw our food waiting on the kitchen shelf for another 20 minutes, which he saw, and ignored. We ate, got the check and tipped 15%. As we were exiting the restaurant, the server RAN after us and said, "Oh, you must not be from around here (we actually happened to be locals) but people tip our staff 19%". My FI were a single party, and no where did it include a gratuity for that amount on the check. I said, "Oh...here, let me fix that for you" I crossed out the tip and wrote "Sorry, but we don't owe you anything

" and left. While I believe that it is a moral obligation to tip, I do not reward servers for mediocre service, and I certainly won't tip after I've been insulted and asked for more money.

AlexisA01 · August 2014

bride2b71614 said:

I always tip at least 15%, even if the service is shitty. I am really embarrassed to admit this but here it goes: My FI and I were celebrating his birthday, and I decided to treat him to dinner at a small italian restaurant (not upscale by any means). The dinner was spoiled by the service. Our server was incredibly rude. He placed FI and I at a table really close to a stairwell (I am talking if you moved the chair an inch you'd go tumbling), when asked to change our table, he protested and eventually changed our table (the restaurant wasn't crowded, or even busy). He made us wait 25 minutes before he came back to our table (he was speaking to his other coworkers about other patrons). After ordering, we saw our food waiting on the kitchen shelf for another 20 minutes, which he saw, and ignored. We ate, got the check and tipped 15%. As we were exiting the restaurant, the server RAN after us and said, "Oh, you must not be from around here (we actually happened to be locals) but people tip our staff 19%". My FI were a single party, and no where did it include a gratuity for that amount on the check. I said, "Oh...here, let me fix that for you" I crossed out the tip and wrote "Sorry, but we don't owe you anything " and left. While I believe that it is a moral obligation to tip, I do not reward servers for mediocre service, and I certainly won't tip after I've been insulted and asked for more money.

No he didn't!? That is SO tacky!

Simply Fated · August 2014

AlexisA01 said:
I got invited out to lunch with a friend today earlier and we out to eat. Our waiter was alright, the food was alright and everything was going pretty great then check came. She used her card to pay and we got our stuff together and she signed the receipt but never left a tip. I asked if she wanted me to leave a tip and she said "no, I got this" after signing her name. Then we left. I asked her later on while we were getting some krispy kreme donuts, why she didn't leave a tip for the waiter. She told me that their job is to take her food order, get drinks, get other stuff and if she felt the experience was above and beyond she would leave gratuity because she would be "grateful". Tips are gratuity and they should never be mandatory. She went on to say that when she worked as a waitress in high school, her job was to wait on people and that she was taught to never expect tips. She also mention that she knew coworkers that would do crappy jobs and they were still given gratuity because people felt that they owed their server something.

Just wondering what are your thoughts regarding her comment with gratuity vs the expectation.

Right, he took her order, brought her a drink and other stuff. If she didn't want someone to do those things FOR her, she shouldn't have eaten at a full service restaurant. She could have eaten at home where she could have done all that herself.

For the record, leaving fifty cents or some other gross amount doesn't send a message to the server that they did a poor job. If the server fucked up, they know they fucked up. Leaving a tip like that is just degrading.
If you (general you) messes up at work, would you be okay with someone demanding that you get paid less that day? Would someone even be able to do that?
I'm talking about when a server makes an honest mistake, not when they're ignoring you to flirt with the hostess.

Out of curiousity, what constitutes as going above and beyond?

Viczaesar · August 2014

mysticl said:

banana468 said:

banana468 said:

mysticl said:
No one is obligated to tip unless it is built into a contract they have signed. An obligation is something you have to do. You do not have to tip.
You sure don't. Unless you don't want to look like an asshole.
This. You ARE obligated to tip. It's a moral/social obligation but going out to eat and not tipping means you have failed to fulfill your social obligation. The restaurant can't have you arrested because it isn't a legal obligation but you're going to be viewed as a rather large ass-turd if you say that you don't tip because it's not a requirement.

I disagree. I see no social or moral obligation to tip anyone. We are just going to disagree on this and not change each other's minds.

I never said I don't tip because it's not a requirement. In fact I have stated at least twice that I do tip. However, I tip because I choose to, not because I feel obligated to or am afraid to be seen as an asshole. I would not end a friendship with someone because they chose not to tip.
You failing to see the obligation does not negate the existence of said obligation. The FACT that servers depend on tips as part of their salary is further evidence of the obligatory nature of tipping here in the United States. That you don't understand that others SHOULD tip is quite concerning.

Except they don't. Federal law does allow them to be paid as low as $2.13 an hour provided they earn enough tips to bring them up to the federal minimum wage. If they do not earn that amount in tips the employer (by law) must make up the difference in their salary so that they are earning the federal minimum wage.

Just going to point out again that in some states, primarily in the west, servers have to be paid at least state minimum wage, not including tips.

AlexisA01 · August 2014

Simply Fated said:

I got invited out to lunch with a friend today earlier and we out to eat. Our waiter was alright, the food was alright and everything was going pretty great then check came. She used her card to pay and we got our stuff together and she signed the receipt but never left a tip. I asked if she wanted me to leave a tip and she said "no, I got this" after signing her name. Then we left. I asked her later on while we were getting some krispy kreme donuts, why she didn't leave a tip for the waiter. She told me that their job is to take her food order, get drinks, get other stuff and if she felt the experience was above and beyond she would leave gratuity because she would be "grateful". Tips are gratuity and they should never be mandatory. She went on to say that when she worked as a waitress in high school, her job was to wait on people and that she was taught to never expect tips. She also mention that she knew coworkers that would do crappy jobs and they were still given gratuity because people felt that they owed their server something.

Just wondering what are your thoughts regarding her comment with gratuity vs the expectation.

Right, he took her order, brought her a drink and other stuff. If she didn't want someone to do those things FOR her, she shouldn't have eaten at a full service restaurant. She could have eaten at home where she could have done all that herself. For the record, leaving fifty cents or some other gross amount doesn't send a message to the server that they did a poor job. If the server fucked up, they know they fucked up. Leaving a tip like that is just degrading. If you (general you) messes up at work, would you be okay with someone demanding that you get paid less that day? Would someone even be able to do that? I'm talking about when a server makes an honest mistake, not when they're ignoring you to flirt with the hostess. Out of curiosity, what constitutes as going above and beyond?

I guess in this situation, the servers work a place that does pay minimal wage. So it wouldn't be a full service restuarant. She pays when she goes to other full service place. It caught me off guard that she didn't tip these servers.

mysticl · August 2014

Viczaesar said:

mysticl said:

banana468 said:

banana468 said:

mysticl said:
No one is obligated to tip unless it is built into a contract they have signed. An obligation is something you have to do. You do not have to tip.
You sure don't. Unless you don't want to look like an asshole.
This. You ARE obligated to tip. It's a moral/social obligation but going out to eat and not tipping means you have failed to fulfill your social obligation. The restaurant can't have you arrested because it isn't a legal obligation but you're going to be viewed as a rather large ass-turd if you say that you don't tip because it's not a requirement.

I disagree. I see no social or moral obligation to tip anyone. We are just going to disagree on this and not change each other's minds.

I never said I don't tip because it's not a requirement. In fact I have stated at least twice that I do tip. However, I tip because I choose to, not because I feel obligated to or am afraid to be seen as an asshole. I would not end a friendship with someone because they chose not to tip.
You failing to see the obligation does not negate the existence of said obligation. The FACT that servers depend on tips as part of their salary is further evidence of the obligatory nature of tipping here in the United States. That you don't understand that others SHOULD tip is quite concerning.

Except they don't. Federal law does allow them to be paid as low as $2.13 an hour provided they earn enough tips to bring them up to the federal minimum wage. If they do not earn that amount in tips the employer (by law) must make up the difference in their salary so that they are earning the federal minimum wage.

Just going to point out again that in some states, primarily in the west, servers have to be paid at least state minimum wage, not including tips.

Which is awesome and what I believe should be the case. It's just than when people point out that servers can be paid less than minimum wage by the restaurant (under federal law and depending on their state) they don't always add in the fact that for the restaurant to do so the employee must make up the difference in tips and if they don't the restaurant has to make up the difference. So to someone who doesn't know the whole law it can give the impression that if the server doesn't make any tips they are only taking home $2.13 an hour which is not true. And if it is true that restaurant is in violation of the law and the staff needs to take action.

clarke10 · August 2014

People not tipping is one of my biggest pet peeves. If you can't tip your waitress, eat at McDonald's or cook your own food at home. I always tip at least 20%, unless the service was really bad. I've tipped a lot higher for really kick-ass service.

Unless your food and drinks legit never made it to your table, then your server still served you regardless of how good the service is. I would never tip less than 10%.

pinkshorts27 · August 2014

I'm just wondering how anyone notices if other people tip or not. I never look over their sholder if they are paying to see what they add for tip.

MyNameIsNot · August 2014

mysticl said:

banana468 said:

banana468 said:

mysticl said:
No one is obligated to tip unless it is built into a contract they have signed. An obligation is something you have to do. You do not have to tip.
You sure don't. Unless you don't want to look like an asshole.
This. You ARE obligated to tip. It's a moral/social obligation but going out to eat and not tipping means you have failed to fulfill your social obligation. The restaurant can't have you arrested because it isn't a legal obligation but you're going to be viewed as a rather large ass-turd if you say that you don't tip because it's not a requirement.

I disagree. I see no social or moral obligation to tip anyone. We are just going to disagree on this and not change each other's minds.

I never said I don't tip because it's not a requirement. In fact I have stated at least twice that I do tip. However, I tip because I choose to, not because I feel obligated to or am afraid to be seen as an asshole. I would not end a friendship with someone because they chose not to tip.
You failing to see the obligation does not negate the existence of said obligation. The FACT that servers depend on tips as part of their salary is further evidence of the obligatory nature of tipping here in the United States. That you don't understand that others SHOULD tip is quite concerning.

Except they don't. Federal law does allow them to be paid as low as $2.13 an hour provided they earn enough tips to bring them up to the federal minimum wage. If they do not earn that amount in tips the employer (by law) must make up the difference in their salary so that they are earning the federal minimum wage.

Yeah, because they always do the right thing.

When a server shows the manager that she earned less than minimum for the shift, he'll call her a liar and refuse to bump the wage. Been there, done that.

If you have a problem with the system, attack the system. Punishing the server for your problem with the way society works is selfish and cheap.

mysticl · August 2014

MyNameIsNot said:

mysticl said:

banana468 said:

banana468 said:

mysticl said:
No one is obligated to tip unless it is built into a contract they have signed. An obligation is something you have to do. You do not have to tip.
You sure don't. Unless you don't want to look like an asshole.
This. You ARE obligated to tip. It's a moral/social obligation but going out to eat and not tipping means you have failed to fulfill your social obligation. The restaurant can't have you arrested because it isn't a legal obligation but you're going to be viewed as a rather large ass-turd if you say that you don't tip because it's not a requirement.

I disagree. I see no social or moral obligation to tip anyone. We are just going to disagree on this and not change each other's minds.

I never said I don't tip because it's not a requirement. In fact I have stated at least twice that I do tip. However, I tip because I choose to, not because I feel obligated to or am afraid to be seen as an asshole. I would not end a friendship with someone because they chose not to tip.
You failing to see the obligation does not negate the existence of said obligation. The FACT that servers depend on tips as part of their salary is further evidence of the obligatory nature of tipping here in the United States. That you don't understand that others SHOULD tip is quite concerning.

Except they don't. Federal law does allow them to be paid as low as $2.13 an hour provided they earn enough tips to bring them up to the federal minimum wage. If they do not earn that amount in tips the employer (by law) must make up the difference in their salary so that they are earning the federal minimum wage.

Yeah, because they always do the right thing.

When a server shows the manager that she earned less than minimum for the shift, he'll call her a liar and refuse to bump the wage. Been there, done that.

If you have a problem with the system, attack the system. Punishing the server for your problem with the way society works is selfish and cheap.

Then the manager/owner needs to be reported or nothing will ever change. (I do understand that is easier said than done). And for at least the fourth or is it fifth time I DO TIP. I just don't view it as the moral obligation of every restaurant patron out there to tip and I do not judge someone who doesn't tip.

Simply Fated · August 2014

mysticl said:

MyNameIsNot said:

mysticl said:

banana468 said:

banana468 said:

mysticl said:
No one is obligated to tip unless it is built into a contract they have signed. An obligation is something you have to do. You do not have to tip.
You sure don't. Unless you don't want to look like an asshole.
This. You ARE obligated to tip. It's a moral/social obligation but going out to eat and not tipping means you have failed to fulfill your social obligation. The restaurant can't have you arrested because it isn't a legal obligation but you're going to be viewed as a rather large ass-turd if you say that you don't tip because it's not a requirement.

I disagree. I see no social or moral obligation to tip anyone. We are just going to disagree on this and not change each other's minds.

I never said I don't tip because it's not a requirement. In fact I have stated at least twice that I do tip. However, I tip because I choose to, not because I feel obligated to or am afraid to be seen as an asshole. I would not end a friendship with someone because they chose not to tip.
You failing to see the obligation does not negate the existence of said obligation. The FACT that servers depend on tips as part of their salary is further evidence of the obligatory nature of tipping here in the United States. That you don't understand that others SHOULD tip is quite concerning.

Except they don't. Federal law does allow them to be paid as low as $2.13 an hour provided they earn enough tips to bring them up to the federal minimum wage. If they do not earn that amount in tips the employer (by law) must make up the difference in their salary so that they are earning the federal minimum wage.

Yeah, because they always do the right thing.

When a server shows the manager that she earned less than minimum for the shift, he'll call her a liar and refuse to bump the wage. Been there, done that.

If you have a problem with the system, attack the system. Punishing the server for your problem with the way society works is selfish and cheap.

Then the manager/owner needs to be reported or nothing will ever change. (I do understand that is easier said than done). And for at least the fourth or is it fifth time I DO TIP. I just don't view it as the moral obligation of every restaurant patron out there to tip and I do not judge someone who doesn't tip.

Report it to whom? Their boss who is, ya know, letting them do this?

In most restaurants (in NY, I can't speak for other states) the credit card tips are automatically declared. The server is supposed to declare the cash tips. If the server declares $0, he or she could get in trouble, even if they legit made $0 in cash tips. How does a server possibly prove that?

mysticl · August 2014

Simply Fated said:

mysticl said:

MyNameIsNot said:

mysticl said:

banana468 said:

banana468 said:

mysticl said:
No one is obligated to tip unless it is built into a contract they have signed. An obligation is something you have to do. You do not have to tip.
You sure don't. Unless you don't want to look like an asshole.
This. You ARE obligated to tip. It's a moral/social obligation but going out to eat and not tipping means you have failed to fulfill your social obligation. The restaurant can't have you arrested because it isn't a legal obligation but you're going to be viewed as a rather large ass-turd if you say that you don't tip because it's not a requirement.

I disagree. I see no social or moral obligation to tip anyone. We are just going to disagree on this and not change each other's minds.

I never said I don't tip because it's not a requirement. In fact I have stated at least twice that I do tip. However, I tip because I choose to, not because I feel obligated to or am afraid to be seen as an asshole. I would not end a friendship with someone because they chose not to tip.
You failing to see the obligation does not negate the existence of said obligation. The FACT that servers depend on tips as part of their salary is further evidence of the obligatory nature of tipping here in the United States. That you don't understand that others SHOULD tip is quite concerning.

Except they don't. Federal law does allow them to be paid as low as $2.13 an hour provided they earn enough tips to bring them up to the federal minimum wage. If they do not earn that amount in tips the employer (by law) must make up the difference in their salary so that they are earning the federal minimum wage.

Yeah, because they always do the right thing.

When a server shows the manager that she earned less than minimum for the shift, he'll call her a liar and refuse to bump the wage. Been there, done that.

If you have a problem with the system, attack the system. Punishing the server for your problem with the way society works is selfish and cheap.

Then the manager/owner needs to be reported or nothing will ever change. (I do understand that is easier said than done). And for at least the fourth or is it fifth time I DO TIP. I just don't view it as the moral obligation of every restaurant patron out there to tip and I do not judge someone who doesn't tip.

Report it to whom? Their boss who is, ya know, letting them do this?

In most restaurants (in NY, I can't speak for other states) the credit card tips are automatically declared. The server is supposed to declare the cash tips. If the server declares $0, he or she could get in trouble, even if they legit made $0 in cash tips. How does a server possibly prove that?

Department of labor, employment commission, whatever mechanism their state has in place to deal with employment law violations. I get that it's difficult to do and people don't want to risk their jobs but nothing will get better for the employees unless they take action to protect themselves. And as long as the restaurants get away with screwing their employees over they will just keep doing it. There was another thread not to long about a poster's husband losing his job illegally. As soon as the boss was threatened with being reported and a law suit he reinstated the employee with a raise because he knew was in the wrong and wanted to avoid legal action.

Simply Fated · August 2014

But do you really think the Department of Labor doesn't already know about these sort of things?
We all know these things are happening, surely they do, too.

mysticl · August 2014

Simply Fated said:

But do you really think the Department of Labor doesn't already know about these sort of things?
We all know these things are happening, surely they do, too.

Well, my "knowing" is my assumption (based on experience) that some people are dishonest and will break the law if it can save them money and the word of anonymous strangers on an internet forum. None of that is grounds to launch an investigation. The DOL needs someone to file a formal compliant so they can investigate specific instances of employment law being violated.

buttercup1958 · August 2014

Honestly I don't care if this makes me an "asshat" but if I received poor service I don't tip. I usually tip but if my experience wasn't enjoyable then why do they deserve it? I tip those who actually earn the tip.

Simply Fated · August 2014

mysticl said:

Simply Fated said:

But do you really think the Department of Labor doesn't already know about these sort of things?
We all know these things are happening, surely they do, too.

Well, my "knowing" is my assumption (based on experience) that some people are dishonest and will break the law if it can save them money and the word of anonymous strangers on an internet forum. None of that is grounds to launch an investigation. The DOL needs someone to file a formal compliant so they can investigate specific instances of employment law being violated.

I think you misunderstood what I posted. I'll rephrase: They know.

lyndausvi · August 2014

I can't really remember not making minimum wage serving. If it was really slow someone got cut. A lot of times there was no shortage of volunteers to leave. Once someone is cut it leaves those who stay the opportunity to make money.

Even if I didn't make minimum wage that night I would never think of telling the boss they need to bummed up my pay for the day. On average I made well over minimum wage, so it's just something I would not think about complaining about. Servers have peaks and valleys. I never calculated my hourly pay on a day-to-day basis. I'm sure others servers feel the same way.

Now if I was't making minimum wage on a consistent basis I would have to reevaluate somethings.

Is the restaurant busy? Yes, then what I'm doing wrong that people are not tipping me? Or maybe the restaurant itself is not being run efficiently that as a server I'm being setup to fail. (seen it happen). Maybe this is not a good fit for me?

No the restaurant is not busy. Why, does this restaurant suck? Do I need to look for work at a higher volume restaurant? Or is it maybe slow season?

Point being is sure there is a law that says they have to make up for not making minimum wage. I just don't see a lot of servers taking the time to even figuring out on a daily basis. The next day might be a banner day and they more than cover the shortage from the day before.

steph861 · August 2014

I don't have a problem with tipping at restaurants and bars. It's the explosion of other service providers suddenly expecting tips that really irks me.

I recently read an article about the five people you aren't tipping but should. They said you should be tipping the exterminator. Are you fucking kidding me?

lyndausvi · August 2014

steph11814 said:

I don't have a problem with tipping at restaurants and bars. It's the explosion of other service providers suddenly expecting tips that really irks me.

I recently read an article about the five people you aren't tipping but should. They said you should be tipping the exterminator. Are you fucking kidding me?

Yeah, not happening.

jenajjthr · August 2014

steph11814 said:

I don't have a problem with tipping at restaurants and bars. It's the explosion of other service providers suddenly expecting tips that really irks me.

I recently read an article about the five people you aren't tipping but should. They said you should be tipping the exterminator. Are you fucking kidding me?

This x1000 There are jobs out there that I was raised that you should tip because like servers, part of their salary depends on tips. Hairdressers being one of them. But the tip jar at the yogurt place? Nope, not gonna happen.

I also will admit to not tipping to horrible service. Tip won't be hurt by something the kitchen did, but if I have to wait forever to be greeted by you the waiter, my order taken, refills given, you argue with me about what I ordered (wrong entree was delivered, I tried to return it, waiter told me this is what I ordered, I said no it wasn't, he said yes it was, I said no it wasn't get the manager), you are just rude, then the tip will go down until it reaches zero. I think this has happened once. Of course tip can also go up if the service is better than expected as well. I think one time I tipped close to 40% because of how awesome the service was.

FiancB · August 2014

I'm actually glad that the US tips a lot, because I like getting good service. I haven't traveled a lot so correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard in countries where tipping is less prevalent, service tends to be crap. So I will happily continue rounding up from 20% for good service- which I did even when I lived in Oregon where not only do servers make minimum wage, but the wage is at least a couple bucks higher than most of the rest of the country.

lyndausvi · August 2014

FiancB said:

I'm actually glad that the US tips a lot, because I like getting good service. I haven't traveled a lot so correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard in countries where tipping is less prevalent, service tends to be crap. So I will happily continue rounding up from 20% for good service- which I did even when I lived in Oregon where not only do servers make minimum wage, but the wage is at least a couple bucks higher than most of the rest of the country.

I've travelled throughout Europe and Asia. I've always gotten good service. Japan was the best (although that was 20 years ago, not sure what it's like now).

I've gotten some bad service in the caribbean and they expected tips.

Expectation vs Gratituity

Re: Expectation vs Gratituity

Choose Another Board

Search Boards