I want to know how you're going to talk to him about shit that really matters in the future, like circumcising a kid if you differ in viewpoint on it, or something larger like that, if you can't even talk to him about not wanting a Honeyfund.
His argument was that our friends wouldn't think it was rude (on the evidence that they said so before we were engaged and considering it), and that we'd be giving up thousands of dollars by not doing it. Getting your way in the end constitutes "winning," I'd say.
I really don't think anyone on here can really help you. You are unwilling to stand up for yourself and what you believe with your FI. Having arguments and disagreements is part of any relationship and it seems to me that you will be willing to just give up on your argument and cave to what he wants instead of standing up for yourself and putting your foot down. Your FI doesn't seem to give a crap about your feelings on this situation. Your feelings about this are more important then the actual facts of a honeyfund. That fact that you told him that you do not want it because it will make you feel uncomfortable and you don't want to seem like you are pressuring your guests into giving you money should have been more then enough for him to say "okay if it makes you feel uncomfortable then we won't have one." The fact that he still is forcing the issue even after he knows how it will make you feel is kind of a douche thing to do.
His argument was that our friends wouldn't think it was rude (on the evidence that they said so before we were engaged and considering it), and that we'd be giving up thousands of dollars by not doing it. Getting your way in the end constitutes "winning," I'd say.
I'm sorry, but the bolded just really rubs me the wrong way. Yeesh.
I want to know how you're going to talk to him about shit that really matters in the future, like circumcising a kid if you differ in viewpoint on it, or something larger like that, if you can't even talk to him about not wanting a Honeyfund.
I did talk to him about it.
True, but all he had to do was say "no" and the discussion was closed. If this is something that you are uncomfortable with (which you should be as it is just so so tacky) then he needs to listen to your feelings. Try the suggestion for the travel agent!
Your FI does know that gifts/cash are not required of your guests right?
Also, I am not sure that any of my friends would tell me to my face that what I am planning/doing is tacky. They are your friends, so they don't want to hurt you. This doesn't mean that they aren't secretly giving you the side eye.
Also the misleading is really worrisome. Guests think they are buying you a romantic dinner for two, and that is why they are paying a fee, because someone has to set that up. I would be fine with paying a fee for a service like that. But with a honey fund you are not getting that at all. You are just getting a check. I would be upset about being misled about where my money was going. Why would I pay for someone to write a check on my behalf when I can write a check for free?
Exactly. Etiquette aside, It's a downright scam. If the company actually set up the experiences the guests believe they are buying, it would be one thing. The fee would be for honeymoon planning. However, they do nothing except to provide a place to deposit money. You already have that: your bank account. Plus, I'm really uncomfortable with letting guests believe the fiction that they are buying you an "experience." They aren't. And what happens when they ask how that couples massage was, and you didn't actually spend the money on one? Embarrassing.
I think you two need to revisit this conversation. It is shitty for him to force you to do something that you are uncomfortable with because he is worried about not getting enough presents.
Suggest to him the travel agent compromise, and if he doesn't accept it, think about whether or not you want to be in a relationship with someone who makes unilateral decisions that affect you both, even when you are uncomfortable with it.
I want to know how you're going to talk to him about shit that really matters in the future, like circumcising a kid if you differ in viewpoint on it, or something larger like that, if you can't even talk to him about not wanting a Honeyfund.
I did talk to him about it.
True, but all he had to do was say "no" and the discussion was closed. If this is something that you are uncomfortable with (which you should be as it is just so so tacky) then he needs to listen to your feelings. Try the suggestion for the travel agent!
Your FI does know that gifts/cash are not required of your guests right?
Also, I am not sure that any of my friends would tell me to my face that what I am planning/doing is tacky. They are your friends, so they don't want to hurt you. This doesn't mean that they aren't secretly giving you the side eye.
It's not quite as simple as he said "no" and the discussion was closed, we talked about it for an hour. Yes, he knows that gifts are not required, but he thinks it's likely people will give us gifts, based on what he's seen from his friends in the past.
He said that since our friends have told us it wasn't tacky when we weren't engaged or talking about it, that we can trust their honesty.
It's not quite as simple as he said "no" and the discussion was closed, we talked about it for an hour. Yes, he knows that gifts are not required, but he thinks it's likely people will give us gifts, based on what he's seen from his friends in the past.
He said that since our friends have told us it wasn't tacky when we weren't engaged or talking about it, that we can trust their honesty.
On the other hand, he does know at least one person who DOES think it's tacky--you. We say all the time on here that it's worth avoiding something at your wedding if even one person will be offended (or a handful, or whatever). You are that one. Even if you weren't the person your FI has chosen to spend his life with, you would be A Person Who Is Bothered By Honeyfunds, yes? Why don't you count?
DH and I did not have a honeymoon registry, or any registry for that matter. We had family members and some friends who did honeymoon registries (which we did not contribute to, we are a boxed gift or a check in the card people). Just because those people did honeymoon registries and found nothing wrong with them didn't mean we had to do the same. Every single guest who gave us a gift gave us cash, check, gift cards or a charitable donation (one couple). We only had 2 couples not give us anything. People know cash is an option, and you don't need to lose money in fees to get it.
His argument was that our friends wouldn't think it was rude (on the evidence that they said so before we were engaged and considering it), and that we'd be giving up thousands of dollars by not doing it. Getting your way in the end constitutes "winning," I'd say.
I'm going to a wedding next month that has a honeyfund. She's one of my best friends. I think it's rude as hell (and stupid b/c of the fees), but as far as she knows, I'm good with it. Because I know about the fees, I'll be giving her a check.
The quote that I think bears repeating is this one:
I don't think you need an ultimatum. Unless he is a jerk, he should understand, "I am not comfortable with a honeymoon registry for these reasons and would be very embarrassed to have one."
I love birthday hats, my husband finds them humiliating. I do not force him to wear them even though I think they are awesome and fun because he feels embarrassed by them. I think being embarrassed by a hat is stupid, but since I am not a jerk, I don't push the issue.
So much this. Why do you even have to make a case and argue over this? It's a registry FFS. If you say "I'm uncomfortable and embarrassed by this" that should be enough for him to say "ok, I don't necessarily agree or understand, but it's not worth it if it makes you uncomfortable and embarrassed". Period.
If I were in your shoes, it's not about "winning" or "losing" the honeyfund debate with him... It's about him respecting you.
TBH, I equate this to the cake face-smash. If one part of the couple says "I'm uncomfortable and embarrassed by that, I don't want to do it" and the other one says "well, I think we should. I win. So we're doing it" and then smashes cake in that person's face..... I'd be WAY more concerned about the respect aspect of their relationship than their ability to decide on how to eat cake.
It's not quite as simple as he said "no" and the discussion was closed, we talked about it for an hour. Yes, he knows that gifts are not required, but he thinks it's likely people will give us gifts, based on what he's seen from his friends in the past.
He said that since our friends have told us it wasn't tacky when we weren't engaged or talking about it, that we can trust their honesty.
On the other hand, he does know at least one person who DOES think it's tacky--you. We say all the time on here that it's worth avoiding something at your wedding if even one person will be offended (or a handful, or whatever). You are that one. Even if you weren't the person your FI has chosen to spend his life with, you would be A Person Who Is Bothered By Honeyfunds, yes? Why don't you count?
Well that's the thing though. I'm not actually bothered, not personally. Even knowing that Paypal gets a cut and that the couple just gets cash, I don't have a personal problem with giving to honeyfunds.
The difference is that I know that some people DO have a problem with it, and I don't want to offend those people. FI thinks that my fear of being judged isn't worth giving up thousands of dollars. I think it is. So yeah, it's not so much that I personally am bothered, just that I don't want other people to be.
Well, I guess I am going to ditto @Maggie0829 at this point. It looks like you aren't willing to stand up on this, so I really don't think we can help you. It isn't that we don't want to, it just seems like to have resigned to doing the honeyfund.
Well that's the thing though. I'm not actually bothered, not personally. Even knowing that Paypal gets a cut and that the couple just gets cash, I don't have a personal problem with giving to honeyfunds.
The difference is that I know that some people DO have a problem with it, and I don't want to offend those people. FI thinks that my fear of being judged isn't worth giving up thousands of dollars. I think it is. So yeah, it's not so much that I personally am bothered, just that I don't want other people to be.
***************SITB*******************
Does he understand that if you don't do honeyfund, people will give you other presents? If you register at a store, it'll be gifts from that store. If you don't register at a store, they just give you money.
Where does he come up with this asinine argument that you'll be "giving up thousands of dollars"? I'm not trying to judge him because I don't know him, but I'm going out on a limb here and guessing he hasn't given too many weddings gifts. When there's no registry, you just give cash. That's how it usually works....
His argument was that our friends wouldn't think it was rude (on the evidence that they said so before we were engaged and considering it), and that we'd be giving up thousands of dollars by not doing it. Getting your way in the end constitutes "winning," I'd say.
Well, this isn't true because you are not entitled to thousands of dollars from your guests. People give not because they are compelled to, but because they love you and want to celebrate your union. Therefore, you are not giving up anything by not having a honeyfund.
It's not quite as simple as he said "no" and the discussion was closed, we talked about it for an hour. Yes, he knows that gifts are not required, but he thinks it's likely people will give us gifts, based on what he's seen from his friends in the past.
He said that since our friends have told us it wasn't tacky when we weren't engaged or talking about it, that we can trust their honesty.
On the other hand, he does know at least one person who DOES think it's tacky--you. We say all the time on here that it's worth avoiding something at your wedding if even one person will be offended (or a handful, or whatever). You are that one. Even if you weren't the person your FI has chosen to spend his life with, you would be A Person Who Is Bothered By Honeyfunds, yes? Why don't you count?
Well that's the thing though. I'm not actually bothered, not personally. Even knowing that Paypal gets a cut and that the couple just gets cash, I don't have a personal problem with giving to honeyfunds.
The difference is that I know that some people DO have a problem with it, and I don't want to offend those people. FI thinks that my fear of being judged isn't worth giving up thousands of dollars. I think it is. So yeah, it's not so much that I personally am bothered, just that I don't want other people to be.
Wait, and said, bolded people are invited to the wedding? This is even worse, Melissa! This means he thinks that his friends are the only friends worth catering to! I ask again: Why don't your people count?
I am not trying to be cruel or talk shit about your FI, who I am sure has many fine qualities. But if logic is his game, he isn't being logical. If YOU are his game (as you should be) then your guests should matter. He really has no leg to stand on, other than the one you are giving him by giving in.
Well, I guess I am going to ditto @Maggie0829 at this point. It looks like you aren't willing to stand up on this, so I really don't think we can help you. It isn't that we don't want to, it just seems like to have resigned to doing the honeyfund.
Sorry. I don't mean to be difficult. I am definitely going to bring it up again and mention the fees. And I'll look into the travel agent thing...but...do travel agents even exist anymore?
Well, I guess I am going to ditto @Maggie0829 at this point. It looks like you aren't willing to stand up on this, so I really don't think we can help you. It isn't that we don't want to, it just seems like to have resigned to doing the honeyfund.
Sorry. I don't mean to be difficult. I am definitely going to bring it up again and mention the fees. And I'll look into the travel agent thing...but...do travel agents even exist anymore?
Yes they do.
Did you try to mention the fees to him? I am curious to know what his response was?
On the other hand, he does know at least one person who DOES think it's tacky--you. We say all the time on here that it's worth avoiding something at your wedding if even one person will be offended (or a handful, or whatever). You are that one. Even if you weren't the person your FI has chosen to spend his life with, you would be A Person Who Is Bothered By Honeyfunds, yes? Why don't you count?
Wow. Perfect point. Why does your friends' alleged approval for a honeyfund trump your very real disapproval?
I must admit, you ladies are making me feel better. I should have a say in this! Not that I'll actually act on that feeling, but still.
This makes me sad. Your marriage should be the one place where it's safe to act on your feelings or at least speak up about them.
Yes, this isn't really a functional way of being. You should have a say in your life, period. People who don't speak up for themselves become passive agressive- not a functional way of communication, and then become very resentful and bitter and angry.
The fact that you're speaking your mind about this to strangers on the internet but don't want to rock the boat with the person you've agreed to spend the rest of your life with probably isn't a great sign. I'm not trying to judge your relationship, but I can't help but agree with others above.
It's not like I didn't talk to him about it, I just didn't win the argument in the end.
Who says it's over?
When DH and I got married, we had to make compromises. I love red velvet cake, he didn't. He wanted to have the Chicken Dance, I didn't. We made compromises on these because neither one of these were rude to our guests.
It makes no sense, either. You spend money to get money. WHY? People know that money is an acceptable wedding gift. Look -
And look at this screen. Your guests are CHARGED if they want to give you $$ via a credit card. The free option is cash / check. Well DUH. Who needs a website with tons of ads to tell your guests that they can bring a $100 bill in a nice card to your wedding?
It does seem like OP's FI believes that the honeyfund is the only way people will gift money. So maybe he will be OK with the fees because it's better than nothing. Please tell him that people will give money anyway, as all the ladies here have pointed out!
Well, I guess I am going to ditto @Maggie0829 at this point. It looks like you aren't willing to stand up on this, so I really don't think we can help you. It isn't that we don't want to, it just seems like to have resigned to doing the honeyfund.
Sorry. I don't mean to be difficult. I am definitely going to bring it up again and mention the fees. And I'll look into the travel agent thing...but...do travel agents even exist anymore?
Oh yeah. All over the place.
Sweetie, I've read all of the responses, and I think - honestly - that you are either going to have to stand up now or lie down forever. I know how it is to be nonconfrontational (in a year and a half of being with FI, there has not been a single thing I felt warranted confrontation) but I also know that if FI said ANYTHING akin to what yours has, especially since it's something that you don't want, I'd be in his face before he had a chance to blink.
It isn't so much the honeyfund with me - I'm not a fan, and yeah, they're tacky, but I'm not gonna JUDGE someone who has one. If they were free, I'd give through one just for the ease of using my debit card instead of having to chase down an ATM. What's bothering me (and I think the rest of the posters) is that he gave you a flat out ultimatum, even after you voiced your dislike of them and your discomfort with having one, and you started out saying that since he put his foot down, you were stuck.
I noticed that you said you were going to try and bring it up again. I hope you do, and I hope it goes well! Ask him how much he's expecting to receive through the honeyfund, and then tell him to go ahead and subtract about 10% from that. Tell him that if he thinks people will give that much money to a honeyfund, what's stopping them from just handing it to you? And then you get to keep that 10% cut that fund websites take as well, so you actually get the full amount.
And if you're comfortable, mention how unimportant you're feeling (or how confused or upset or whatever, you know) because he is completely discounting you and your thoughts on the subject over money. I mean, if it were me, this would be a hill I died on, just because I won't let my FI ignore me when something truly bothers me.
Also, can we go back to his missing out on thousands of dollar argument?
In no world does a honeyfund make people's wallets spew money. People have a budget and are going to gift something in that range. No type of registry is going to make people suddenly spend more money than they were originally planning.
Also, can we go back to his missing out on thousands of dollar argument?
In no world does a honeyfund make people's wallets spew money. People have a budget and are going to gift something in that range. No type of registry is going to make people suddenly spend more money than they were originally planning.
Listen to Lia, she's got all sorts of smarts!
And just another story to add to the pile, H and I did register for tons of household items (he's a clutter-hating guy in the Army who moves all the time, I was a poor grad student until two months ago) - and we still got tons of cash and giftcards. I'm assuming those who gave cash found it easy to slip a check or a $100 bill into a card than to grab something off our registry.
If people want to give you cash, they will, no matter what kind of registry you have.
I must admit, you ladies are making me feel better. I should have a say in this! Not that I'll actually act on that feeling, but still.
This makes me sad. Your marriage should be the one place where it's safe to act on your feelings or at least speak up about them.
Yes, this isn't really a functional way of being. You should have a say in your life, period. People who don't speak up for themselves become passive agressive- not a functional way of communication, and then become very resentful and bitter and angry.
The fact that you're speaking your mind about this to strangers on the internet but don't want to rock the boat with the person you've agreed to spend the rest of your life with probably isn't a great sign. I'm not trying to judge your relationship, but I can't help but agree with others above.
It's not like I didn't talk to him about it, I just didn't win the argument in the end.
And that would be an issue that would need to be addressed in my relationship.
I would view this situation, as another PP stated, as my FI valuing his desire to publicly ask for money over the consideration for my feelings and the fact that I stated it made me uncomfortable and I was not OK with the Honeyfund.
And that would piss me off and would lead to a discussion on how we could come to a compromise that wasn't going to compromise my comfort.
Actually, I'd tell FI point blank- "Dude, a Honeyfund is flat out asking for money which is tacky and rude as hell, and you are going to make us both look like assholes to all of our friends and families. If you are insistent upon this, then I'm going to add a Note Bene on our wedding website that flat out states this tacky and rude idea is all yours and I want no part of it. Oh yeah, I'm throwing your ass under the bus because you seem to think getting cash is more important than my feelings of discomfort on the matter."
I assume that you aren't putting any registry info in with your invitations right?
Haha, I think putting that note on the website would come off as a little passive-aggressive. And no, no registry info in the invites. Just on the website.
That's flat out aggressive I think ;-)
"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
Well, I guess I am going to ditto @Maggie0829 at this point. It looks like you aren't willing to stand up on this, so I really don't think we can help you. It isn't that we don't want to, it just seems like to have resigned to doing the honeyfund.
Sorry. I don't mean to be difficult. I am definitely going to bring it up again and mention the fees. And I'll look into the travel agent thing...but...do travel agents even exist anymore?
Yes they do.
Did you try to mention the fees to him? I am curious to know what his response was?
Also, can we go back to his missing out on thousands of dollar argument?
In no world does a honeyfund make people's wallets spew money. People have a budget and are going to gift something in that range. No type of registry is going to make people suddenly spend more money than they were originally planning.
If I see a honeyfund, I am probably less likely to give money.
This.
If I was going to a wedding and I saw they had a honeyfund, I would not give cash. .. which I normally do at weddings. I'd buy a gift from their registry and if htey didn't have a registry I'd give them a Bed Bath and Beyond gift card.
Maybe I'm an asshole for feeling that it's inappropriate to expect your friends and family to fund your glorified vacation?
"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
Good luck, Melissa. Remind yourself it's ok to feel what you're feeling and ok (even necessary) to ask your FI to respect and consider what you are feeling. That's more important than whether you do a honeyfund or not.
Re: Fiancé dead set on a Honeyfund
I did talk to him about it.
True, but all he had to do was say "no" and the discussion was closed. If this is something that you are uncomfortable with (which you should be as it is just so so tacky) then he needs to listen to your feelings. Try the suggestion for the travel agent!
Your FI does know that gifts/cash are not required of your guests right?
Also, I am not sure that any of my friends would tell me to my face that what I am planning/doing is tacky. They are your friends, so they don't want to hurt you. This doesn't mean that they aren't secretly giving you the side eye.
Exactly. Etiquette aside, It's a downright scam. If the company actually set up the experiences the guests believe they are buying, it would be one thing. The fee would be for honeymoon planning. However, they do nothing except to provide a place to deposit money. You already have that: your bank account. Plus, I'm really uncomfortable with letting guests believe the fiction that they are buying you an "experience." They aren't. And what happens when they ask how that couples massage was, and you didn't actually spend the money on one? Embarrassing.
I think you two need to revisit this conversation. It is shitty for him to force you to do something that you are uncomfortable with because he is worried about not getting enough presents.
Suggest to him the travel agent compromise, and if he doesn't accept it, think about whether or not you want to be in a relationship with someone who makes unilateral decisions that affect you both, even when you are uncomfortable with it.
It's not quite as simple as he said "no" and the discussion was closed, we talked about it for an hour. Yes, he knows that gifts are not required, but he thinks it's likely people will give us gifts, based on what he's seen from his friends in the past. He said that since our friends have told us it wasn't tacky when we weren't engaged or talking about it, that we can trust their honesty.
So much this. Why do you even have to make a case and argue over this? It's a registry FFS. If you say "I'm uncomfortable and embarrassed by this" that should be enough for him to say "ok, I don't necessarily agree or understand, but it's not worth it if it makes you uncomfortable and embarrassed". Period.
Well that's the thing though. I'm not actually bothered, not personally. Even knowing that Paypal gets a cut and that the couple just gets cash, I don't have a personal problem with giving to honeyfunds. The difference is that I know that some people DO have a problem with it, and I don't want to offend those people. FI thinks that my fear of being judged isn't worth giving up thousands of dollars. I think it is. So yeah, it's not so much that I personally am bothered, just that I don't want other people to be.
Well, this isn't true because you are not entitled to thousands of dollars from your guests. People give not because they are compelled to, but because they love you and want to celebrate your union. Therefore, you are not giving up anything by not having a honeyfund.
Sorry. I don't mean to be difficult. I am definitely going to bring it up again and mention the fees. And I'll look into the travel agent thing...but...do travel agents even exist anymore?
Yes they do.
Did you try to mention the fees to him? I am curious to know what his response was?
When DH and I got married, we had to make compromises. I love red velvet cake, he didn't. He wanted to have the Chicken Dance, I didn't. We made compromises on these because neither one of these were rude to our guests.
It makes no sense, either. You spend money to get money. WHY? People know that money is an acceptable wedding gift. Look -
And look at this screen.
Your guests are CHARGED if they want to give you $$ via a credit card. The free option is cash / check. Well DUH. Who needs a website with tons of ads to tell your guests that they can bring a $100 bill in a nice card to your wedding?
Seriously.
It does seem like OP's FI believes that the honeyfund is the only way people will gift money. So maybe he will be OK with the fees because it's better than nothing. Please tell him that people will give money anyway, as all the ladies here have pointed out!
In no world does a honeyfund make people's wallets spew money. People have a budget and are going to gift something in that range. No type of registry is going to make people suddenly spend more money than they were originally planning.
"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."
I'll ask him tonight
If I was going to a wedding and I saw they had a honeyfund, I would not give cash. .. which I normally do at weddings. I'd buy a gift from their registry and if htey didn't have a registry I'd give them a Bed Bath and Beyond gift card.
Maybe I'm an asshole for feeling that it's inappropriate to expect your friends and family to fund your glorified vacation?
"Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."