Closing a thread

mrsmagicgeek · September 2014

If The Mod had closed the Hi Again thread last night during the pedo bit that would be one thing, but closing it when it veered back to being useful again was not helpful. Nothing was against TOS that I am aware of, making that move seem more than a bit subjective.

Maybe it's just me, but I think that was not cool.

JCbride2015 · September 2014

I'm pretty sure we all had a fairly detailed conversation when TK first floated the idea of mods, in which it was decided that there was no way to be fair about when "piling on" reaches a stage that merits the thread being closed. And how it was subjective, and couldn't possibly be enforced in an even-handed way. And basically that this was not a reason Knotties wanted to see a mod ever close a thread.

lyndausvi · September 2014

I understand your comments. These types of threads have a way of going around in circles. Sure it had turned a corner to useful information, but it can quickly turn back the other direction. I felt that thread ran it's course.

ashley8918 · September 2014

winchestered said:

lyndausvi said:

I understand your comments. These types of threads have a way of going around in circles. Sure it had turned a corner to useful information, but it can quickly turn back the other direction. I felt that thread ran it's course.

But I don't think this is something for mods to decide. If that's the case, then all of Doey's threads should be closed immediately because they're all going to have the exact same reactions from the other Knotties. I thought mods were around to assist with TOS violations and spam, not decide when conversations were finished.

I think it would be helpful in the future, to do a mod post detailing what is not appropriate in the thread, and to delete the said comments.

i.e. in Doey's thread, there could be a post detailing that inferring her FI is a pedo is inappropriate, and then delete those comments, but allow the conversation to continue.

THIS.

A similar thing happened recently in Wedding Woes. This was not the point of having mods.

mrsmagicgeek · September 2014

lyndausvi said:

I understand your comments. These types of threads have a way of going around in circles. Sure it had turned a corner to useful information, but it can quickly turn back the other direction. I felt that thread ran it's course.

Well. That last sentence says a lot. I did not know that it was your job to decide when a thread had "run it's course.". Is there a description somewhere of what the mods are supposed to do? I'd hate to accuse you of subjective censoring again when you're just doing your job. Oh wait, that probably means this thread has "run its course".

JCbride2015 · September 2014

winchestered said:

lyndausvi said:

I understand your comments. These types of threads have a way of going around in circles. Sure it had turned a corner to useful information, but it can quickly turn back the other direction. I felt that thread ran it's course.

But I don't think this is something for mods to decide. If that's the case, then all of Doey's threads should be closed immediately because they're all going to have the exact same reactions from the other Knotties. I thought mods were around to assist with TOS violations and spam, not decide when conversations were finished.

I think it would be helpful in the future, to do a mod post detailing what is not appropriate in the thread, and to delete the said comments.

i.e. in Doey's thread, there could be a post detailing that inferring her FI is a pedo is inappropriate, and then delete those comments, but allow the conversation to continue.

Yes, I think this would be a better way to handle such things in the future.

photokitty · September 2014

In addition to the piling on and calling out, the thread had multiple reported posts. There were some posts that resulted in warnings and others that could have.

I think the flagged/reported posts had more to do with what led to the thread being closed, but of course I can't speak for Lyndausvi.

I feel her statement that it had "run it's course" wasn't that she was trying to dictate the conversation length or censor it, but rather end it before it got nasty again. It was a tricky situation and one I for one and glad I didn't have to make, but I support her decision for closing it.

Liatris2010 · September 2014

We do not have clear guidelines for when it is appropriate to close a post. That being said, that thread was generating tons of flags in the mod cue. Not all of the flagged posts violated TOS, but several did. If a single thread is generating lots and lots of flags from several posters, I think it is a pretty good indication that things are getting out of hand.

mrsmagicgeek · September 2014

If nothing else, a warning would have been nice. "Hey guys, this thread is getting a little out of hand. Can we keep it to Doey's original issue?"

I wouldn't be thrilled with that either, but it's more inline with my understanding of a mod.

JCbride2015 · September 2014

Yes, I like the idea of a warning and calling out which aspects of the flagged posts violated TOS.

And with that I have a question-- which comments did violate TOS?

ETA: I'm not saying to call out particular people or verbatim comments, just the type of statements that went over the line. Was it just the pedophile comments?

LDay2014 · September 2014

photokitty said:
In addition to the piling on and calling out, the thread had multiple reported posts. There were some posts that resulted in warnings and others that could have.

I think the flagged/reported posts had more to do with what led to the thread being closed, but of course I can't speak for Lyndausvi.

I feel her statement that it had "run it's course" wasn't that she was trying to dictate the conversation length or censor it, but rather end it before it got nasty again. It was a tricky situation and one I for one and glad I didn't have to make, but I support her decision for closing it.

Wouldn't it be better to wait and SEE if it got out of hand instead of closing it when it was once again being productive? To pre-emptively close it in the event it might go sour is censoring.

I'd the thread had truly run its course (in a productive manner) then it would have made its way to page two like all other threads that have truly run their course.

Jells2dot0 · September 2014

I'm all for leaving a thread open that has a good continuous dicussion. But even this one made me cringe because of the comments about age differences in marriages. It started spiraling into many different directions.

mrsmagicgeek · September 2014

Plus, most of us can't see that things have been reported. All we see is the thread getting shut down at a nebulous point. We are all adults here.

luckya23 · September 2014

And doey had finally come back to answer!

Of course it went off course from the "please PM" me (which I did, btw), and maybe THAT would have been the time to close it, not when the entire situation was becoming more clear to everyone trying to HELP.

TheGrimReaper · September 2014

So will every thread with a disagreement be closed from now on? Just want to make sure I understand. Wow, you guys have had mods for less than a month and this is already happening.

TheGrimReaper · September 2014

I think a lot of threads go on and on in circles about topics that are very boring. Can we close those too?

JCbride2015 · September 2014

foundmymagicgeek said:

Plus, most of us can't see that things have been reported. All we see is the thread getting shut down at a nebulous point. We are all adults here.

This is a good point. If posters could see what was getting reported earlier on, it may not have spiraled the way it did.

I don't love the idea of visible flags because I'm sure plenty of stuff gets reported that doesn't actually violate TOS, just people being sensitive as @winchestered said. But I think I'd appreciate if the mod approach was to come in and say, [example of inappropriate comment] was out of line. Get back on track or I will close this thread.

southernbelle0915 · September 2014

We have a thread going right now asking KP for TK's guidance about when it's appropriate to close a thread.

At this point, it's up to the mod's best judgement. Objectively, that was a tough thread to mod as there was A LOT flying back and forth on very sensitive topics and it got personal really fast. There have been several already this week that have been really tough - all in Chit Chat - and I think @lyndausvi is doing a good job with the information/guidance we have at this time.

ashley8918 · September 2014

JCbride2015 said:

Yes, I like the idea of a warning and calling out which aspects of the flagged posts violated TOS.

And with that I have a question-- which comments did violate TOS?

ETA: I'm not saying to call out particular people or verbatim comments, just the type of statements that went over the line. Was it just the pedophile comments?

I'm internested in this, as well.

(Read: no snarkiness here, I just honestly am not seeing them)

I am especially interested because there was a pretty out-of-hand thread in which a discussion about domestic violence got ugly with someone calling DV survivors weak/not smart/etc. That's pretty inappropriate to me, but that thread didn't get closed.

To clarify, I don't think it should have been closed. I just don't see why Doey's thread was so much more inappropriate than that one.

[Deleted User] · September 2014

How can you pile on a girl who keeps asking for the same advice?

photokitty · September 2014

LDay2014 said:

In addition to the piling on and calling out, the thread had multiple reported posts. There were some posts that resulted in warnings and others that could have.

I think the flagged/reported posts had more to do with what led to the thread being closed, but of course I can't speak for Lyndausvi.

I feel her statement that it had "run it's course" wasn't that she was trying to dictate the conversation length or censor it, but rather end it before it got nasty again. It was a tricky situation and one I for one and glad I didn't have to make, but I support her decision for closing it.
Wouldn't it be better to wait and SEE if it got out of hand instead of closing it when it was once again being productive? To pre-emptively close it in the event it might go sour is censoring. I'd the thread had truly run its course (in a productive manner) then it would have made its way to page two like all other threads that have truly run their course.

Personally, I don't think the thread ever went back to being constructive. I think there may have been a post here or there what wasn't out of hand, but over all the thread never righted the ship so to speak.

People went from "PEDO" to "OMG groooooming!" to "EWWWW, Age difference" to "so you're saying my arraign will fail??" and then it was closed.

That's not my opinion as a mod, but as a member. I think it went sour and stayed sour til it was closed.

emmaaa · September 2014

ashley8918 said:

JCbride2015 said:

Yes, I like the idea of a warning and calling out which aspects of the flagged posts violated TOS.

And with that I have a question-- which comments did violate TOS?

ETA: I'm not saying to call out particular people or verbatim comments, just the type of statements that went over the line. Was it just the pedophile comments?

I'm internested in this, as well.

(Read: no snarkiness here, I just honestly am not seeing them)

I am especially interested because there was a pretty out-of-hand thread in which a discussion about domestic violence got ugly with someone calling DV survivors weak/not smart/etc. That's pretty inappropriate to me, but that thread didn't get closed.

To clarify, I don't think it should have been closed. I just don't see why Doey's thread was so much more inappropriate than that one.

FTR, that thread was reported as well.

TheGrimReaper · September 2014

Did the OP ask for the thread to be closed?

SBmini · September 2014

I stand by Lynda's decision to close that thread. The OP wasn't listening to what people had to say and even posted that she wasn't going to post about personal issues any more and that she disagreed with all of our opinions.

When the OP bows out of a very volatile thread/topic it no longer becomes useful to the person who was seeking help. All future posts are just for us, not for the OP. For that reason, it was a good idea to close it. Just a waste of bandwidth and energy on all of our parts.

mrsmagicgeek · September 2014

There is a fine line between moderating and giving the appearance of power grabbing. As we often tell people in relationship advice, "Communication is key."

SmileDamnit · September 2014

emmaaa said:

ashley8918 said:

JCbride2015 said:

Yes, I like the idea of a warning and calling out which aspects of the flagged posts violated TOS.

And with that I have a question-- which comments did violate TOS?

ETA: I'm not saying to call out particular people or verbatim comments, just the type of statements that went over the line. Was it just the pedophile comments?

I'm internested in this, as well.

(Read: no snarkiness here, I just honestly am not seeing them)

I am especially interested because there was a pretty out-of-hand thread in which a discussion about domestic violence got ugly with someone calling DV survivors weak/not smart/etc. That's pretty inappropriate to me, but that thread didn't get closed.

To clarify, I don't think it should have been closed. I just don't see why Doey's thread was so much more inappropriate than that one.

FTR, that thread was reported as well.

I would venture to guess that any thread of serious nature is bound to get thread, no? Feelings get hurt, topics get heated, people disagree/argue/debate.

I don't know the answer (and I doubt there is an answer that will make everyone happy), but I agree that it will be helpful when things don't seem so arbitrary. TK doesn't need to become all fluff & hugs & kumbayah - the "heavy" stuff should have a place as well.

ashley8918 · September 2014

emmaaa said:

ashley8918 said:

JCbride2015 said:

Yes, I like the idea of a warning and calling out which aspects of the flagged posts violated TOS.

And with that I have a question-- which comments did violate TOS?

ETA: I'm not saying to call out particular people or verbatim comments, just the type of statements that went over the line. Was it just the pedophile comments?

I'm internested in this, as well.

(Read: no snarkiness here, I just honestly am not seeing them)

I am especially interested because there was a pretty out-of-hand thread in which a discussion about domestic violence got ugly with someone calling DV survivors weak/not smart/etc. That's pretty inappropriate to me, but that thread didn't get closed.

To clarify, I don't think it should have been closed. I just don't see why Doey's thread was so much more inappropriate than that one.

FTR, that thread was reported as well.

I am not surprised. It was not pretty.

That being said, I still don't understand why one was closed and not the other.

theartistformerlyknownas · September 2014

I agree that some cringe-worthy things were said, but I also agree with PPs who mentioned we had agreed for mods to just issue a "cease fire" in cases of piling on, rather than just deciding singlehandedly that the conversation was over. We have SSs say all the time that they're not coming back to read comments, but those threads don't get (and shouldn't be) closed. But the "hey, back it down" comment needs to come from a mod, not another reg.

TheGrimReaper · September 2014

So if I post a thread, get my question answered, and piss off, but then the remainder of the thread is other members discussing something, it should be closed?

photokitty · September 2014

winchestered said:

southernbelle0915 said:

We have a thread going right now asking KP for TK's guidance about when it's appropriate to close a thread.

At this point, it's up to the mod's best judgement. Objectively, that was a tough thread to mod as there was A LOT flying back and forth on very sensitive topics and it got personal really fast. There have been several already this week that have been really tough - all in Chit Chat - and I think @lyndausvi is doing a good job with the information/guidance we have at this time.

Is that a different thread? Do mods have a special board to post their threads on? Are regular members allowed to post their ideas on that thread, since it's us that are upset about it?

I would post a thread in "Knottie Tech Help" or PM @knotporscha with your concerns or suggestions. The thread Southern is talking about is not a discussion, but guidance from TK.

Everyone is just trying to do their best, there's no agenda or power grabbing IMHO.

JCbride2015 · September 2014

I don't accept the OP's bowing out as the reason the thread was closed. OP's do that all the time and the discussion continues without them. As a community we have all discussed that piling on is not a reason to close the thread.

I think it was the nature of the comments. FTR, I thought the thread was getting pretty ugly too. I get it. I just think we need more of an explanation about where the line falls.

Closing a thread

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