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Chit Chat

Closing a thread

13567

Re: Closing a thread

  • LakeR2014 said:
    WAIT, so now the mods are my mommies and have to guide me away from something that they think isn't productive anymore?  Thank goodness we got mods back.

    NEW TK RULE: Comments must serve a purpose or the thread will be closed.

    Noted!

    Why all the dramatics?    We get it - you don't like what was done.  But please be constructive about it.  Ask questions.  Provide suggestions.  Use the suggestion board as mentioned previously. 

    I understand people don't like that the thread was closed, but it was getting out of hand and going into territory against TOS. It HAD run it's course and showed that by veering off into an area that was beyond acceptable for the board.  Deleting the posts that reflected that might not be possible/easy with so much quoting available/involved and it was easier/better for the community to delete it to prevent it from going any further.

     Sorry but I'm with Lynda/MODs on this one.
    Oooookay.  So we're clear now.  If it looks like something MIGHT get around to violating TOS, it effectively HAS violated TOS.

    Classic.

    Understood.

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  • I think it would be beneficial for mods to be able to "suspend" a thread from anymore comments. Like, in a case where someone reports a ton of things, the mod has the ability to suspend comments until they can further "investigate."  Some threads are so ridiculously long that it may take a while to sift though.
    I think that would never ever ever work because this is the TK we're talking about.
  • I'm not blaming the mods that the tk is a poorly-run website. They're volunteers doing the best they can with the crap their given.

    But, knowing full-well that the place is so damn poorly constructed, I think it would be wiser to be open and have in-depth communication about these things without the forum community than to hope and pray you're running things well enough without any input. The knot gods aren't here, and if they were they wouldn't be of much help anyway. The regs are, so utilize them.
  • I try to answer the repeated question, Lyndauvi is busy with work and trying her best to answer questions, but we are all volunteers and have stuff IRL :) 

    I know at least one warning was issued, bans were not issued. I am not the one who issued the warnings as it is not my board, but I inquired personally about some posts. It would be impossible to say the posts that violated TOS with it being obvious and calling out people. But to answer your question - The thread was not closed without warnings being issued. What kind of a community would we be if we start announcing who received warnings and started calling out posts? It's a fine line.

    The post(s) in question violated one or more of these:

    1. Zero Tolerance for Bullies (aka- how to get banned

    We know you are all adults, and no, we’re not going to ban you for using profanity, sarcasm or sharing your opinion in conversation. However, we are going to ban you if you’re malicious towards another user.

    Malicious, petty and/or personal attacks of any kind are unacceptable, so please be mindful of the way you address and discuss others.

    Personal attacks include, but are not limited to: starting a thread with a user’s name as the topic/title to “bash” them, linking to a thread to call out a user on their post, thoughts or beliefs (not a topic), calling a username out maliciously, starting a malicious or derogatory poll/question about a user, using images (memes, gifs, etc.) in a direct attack/vicious manner, etc.

    The Knot encourages you to share your opinions while respecting others’ thoughts and feelings as well. Feel free to share, but be ready to hear and accept other opinions that you may not always agree with. Because you do not agree with someone, does not mean this is the place to attack anyone else’s beliefs.

    “Trolling” The Knot boards by posting inflammatory or off-topic messages with the intent of provoking members/disrupting normal discussion is not permitted and will lead to warning/banning from the boards.

    Cyber bullying is not just a “teen thing” – it is very real for every age group and will not be tolerated.

    If for any reason you are suspected of bullying, there will be consequences that may eventually, if not automatically, lead to banning from the community.



    5. All is Not Fair.

    Online behavior requires common sense and basic etiquette. Accordingly, here are some rules that you agree to follow:

    • No strong, vulgar, obscene, or otherwise harmful language.
    • No racially, ethnically or otherwise, objectionable language.
    • No harassing, intimidating, stalking, or threatening other community members.
    • No libelous, defamatory, or otherwise tortuous language.
    • No online vandalism. This includes using abusive language and repeatedly hitting the return key in the chat room, or otherwise acting in a manner that negatively impacts the ability to engage in real time exchanges.
    • No impersonating any person, including, but not limited to, other community members or employees of The Knot.
    • No posting, distributing, transmitting, or promoting illegal content.
    • No invasion of another's privacy.
    • No actions that are harmful to minors.
    • No manipulation or forging of identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any information posted on The Knot site or otherwise provided to The Knot or its employees.
    • No posting, providing, transmitting, or otherwise making available any information (such as inside, proprietary or confidential information) that you do not have a right to make available due to contract, fiduciary duty, or operation of law.
    • No posting, providing, transmitting, or otherwise making available any junk mail or spam.
    • No posting, uploading, emailing, or otherwise transmitting any material that contains any malicious computer code (including spyware, worms, Trojan horses, viruses, etc.).
    • No posting, providing, transmitting, or otherwise making available any information which violates regulations promulgated by the Securities and Exchange Commission, or that of any securities exchange, such as the New York Stock Exchange.
    • No collecting, storing, or posting of personal data about or of other community members.
    • No soliciting of any kind on the message boards or in the chat room.
    :kiss: ~xoxo~ :kiss:

  • I try to answer the repeated question, Lyndauvi is busy with work and trying her best to answer questions, but we are all volunteers and have stuff IRL :) 

    I know at least one warning was issued, bans were not issued. I am not the one who issued the warnings as it is not my board, but I inquired personally about some posts. It would be impossible to say the posts that violated TOS with it being obvious and calling out people. But to answer your question - The thread was not closed without warnings being issued. What kind of a community would we be if we start announcing who received warnings and started calling out posts? It's a fine line.

    The post(s) in question violated one or more of these:

    1. Zero Tolerance for Bullies (aka- how to get banned

    We know you are all adults, and no, we’re not going to ban you for using profanity, sarcasm or sharing your opinion in conversation. However, we are going to ban you if you’re malicious towards another user.

    Malicious, petty and/or personal attacks of any kind are unacceptable, so please be mindful of the way you address and discuss others.

    Personal attacks include, but are not limited to: starting a thread with a user’s name as the topic/title to “bash” them, linking to a thread to call out a user on their post, thoughts or beliefs (not a topic), calling a username out maliciously, starting a malicious or derogatory poll/question about a user, using images (memes, gifs, etc.) in a direct attack/vicious manner, etc.

    The Knot encourages you to share your opinions while respecting others’ thoughts and feelings as well. Feel free to share, but be ready to hear and accept other opinions that you may not always agree with. Because you do not agree with someone, does not mean this is the place to attack anyone else’s beliefs.

    “Trolling” The Knot boards by posting inflammatory or off-topic messages with the intent of provoking members/disrupting normal discussion is not permitted and will lead to warning/banning from the boards.

    Cyber bullying is not just a “teen thing” – it is very real for every age group and will not be tolerated.

    If for any reason you are suspected of bullying, there will be consequences that may eventually, if not automatically, lead to banning from the community.



    5. All is Not Fair.

    Online behavior requires common sense and basic etiquette. Accordingly, here are some rules that you agree to follow:

    • No strong, vulgar, obscene, or otherwise harmful language.
    • No racially, ethnically or otherwise, objectionable language.
    • No harassing, intimidating, stalking, or threatening other community members.
    • No libelous, defamatory, or otherwise tortuous language.
    • No online vandalism. This includes using abusive language and repeatedly hitting the return key in the chat room, or otherwise acting in a manner that negatively impacts the ability to engage in real time exchanges.
    • No impersonating any person, including, but not limited to, other community members or employees of The Knot.
    • No posting, distributing, transmitting, or promoting illegal content.
    • No invasion of another's privacy.
    • No actions that are harmful to minors.
    • No manipulation or forging of identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any information posted on The Knot site or otherwise provided to The Knot or its employees.
    • No posting, providing, transmitting, or otherwise making available any information (such as inside, proprietary or confidential information) that you do not have a right to make available due to contract, fiduciary duty, or operation of law.
    • No posting, providing, transmitting, or otherwise making available any junk mail or spam.
    • No posting, uploading, emailing, or otherwise transmitting any material that contains any malicious computer code (including spyware, worms, Trojan horses, viruses, etc.).
    • No posting, providing, transmitting, or otherwise making available any information which violates regulations promulgated by the Securities and Exchange Commission, or that of any securities exchange, such as the New York Stock Exchange.
    • No collecting, storing, or posting of personal data about or of other community members.
    • No soliciting of any kind on the message boards or in the chat room.

    But why does people getting warnings= close the thread? Sure, warn the individual posters, but why does that mean close the thread?


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  • I guess my feeling is that a thread should almost never be closed. If people are posting on it, it hasn't run its course. The thought that a topic can be closed for going off topic is absurd to me. If someone violates TOS, they should be banned. Yeah, sometimes comments get repeated- like in the cash bar thread. But closing a thread means only those who get there early enough get to talk. I certainly disagree with closing a thread because you anticipate its going to violate TOS. We all saw minority report.
    I agree with this. there were some comments made (not necessarily by the OP) that I would have loved to voice my opinion on. But I certainly wouldn't want to restart a thread about it. 
    Anniversary
    image
  • I'm still not seeing the TOS violations.
    It's in there, trust me. I'm not going to be more specific bc it would obvious which post and who. I'm not going to call out someone who has already been contacted/warmed just to appease the group. I certainly wouldn't want to be called out publicly just bc people wanted a specific example.
    :kiss: ~xoxo~ :kiss:

  • I try to answer the repeated question, Lyndauvi is busy with work and trying her best to answer questions, but we are all volunteers and have stuff IRL :) 

    I know at least one warning was issued, bans were not issued. I am not the one who issued the warnings as it is not my board, but I inquired personally about some posts. It would be impossible to say the posts that violated TOS with it being obvious and calling out people. But to answer your question - The thread was not closed without warnings being issued. What kind of a community would we be if we start announcing who received warnings and started calling out posts? It's a fine line.

    The post(s) in question violated one or more of these:

    1. Zero Tolerance for Bullies (aka- how to get banned

    We know you are all adults, and no, we’re not going to ban you for using profanity, sarcasm or sharing your opinion in conversation. However, we are going to ban you if you’re malicious towards another user.

    Malicious, petty and/or personal attacks of any kind are unacceptable, so please be mindful of the way you address and discuss others.

    Personal attacks include, but are not limited to: starting a thread with a user’s name as the topic/title to “bash” them, linking to a thread to call out a user on their post, thoughts or beliefs (not a topic), calling a username out maliciously, starting a malicious or derogatory poll/question about a user, using images (memes, gifs, etc.) in a direct attack/vicious manner, etc.

    The Knot encourages you to share your opinions while respecting others’ thoughts and feelings as well. Feel free to share, but be ready to hear and accept other opinions that you may not always agree with. Because you do not agree with someone, does not mean this is the place to attack anyone else’s beliefs.

    “Trolling” The Knot boards by posting inflammatory or off-topic messages with the intent of provoking members/disrupting normal discussion is not permitted and will lead to warning/banning from the boards.

    Cyber bullying is not just a “teen thing” – it is very real for every age group and will not be tolerated.

    If for any reason you are suspected of bullying, there will be consequences that may eventually, if not automatically, lead to banning from the community.



    5. All is Not Fair.

    Online behavior requires common sense and basic etiquette. Accordingly, here are some rules that you agree to follow:

    • No strong, vulgar, obscene, or otherwise harmful language.
    • No racially, ethnically or otherwise, objectionable language.
    • No harassing, intimidating, stalking, or threatening other community members.
    • No libelous, defamatory, or otherwise tortuous language.
    • No online vandalism. This includes using abusive language and repeatedly hitting the return key in the chat room, or otherwise acting in a manner that negatively impacts the ability to engage in real time exchanges.
    • No impersonating any person, including, but not limited to, other community members or employees of The Knot.
    • No posting, distributing, transmitting, or promoting illegal content.
    • No invasion of another's privacy.
    • No actions that are harmful to minors.
    • No manipulation or forging of identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any information posted on The Knot site or otherwise provided to The Knot or its employees.
    • No posting, providing, transmitting, or otherwise making available any information (such as inside, proprietary or confidential information) that you do not have a right to make available due to contract, fiduciary duty, or operation of law.
    • No posting, providing, transmitting, or otherwise making available any junk mail or spam.
    • No posting, uploading, emailing, or otherwise transmitting any material that contains any malicious computer code (including spyware, worms, Trojan horses, viruses, etc.).
    • No posting, providing, transmitting, or otherwise making available any information which violates regulations promulgated by the Securities and Exchange Commission, or that of any securities exchange, such as the New York Stock Exchange.
    • No collecting, storing, or posting of personal data about or of other community members.
    • No soliciting of any kind on the message boards or in the chat room.
    Calling a pedophile a pedophile isn't any of these things.  A man in his late 20s who enters into a "relationship" with a 15 year old girl is just that.

    It the topic makes TK or the mods uncomfortable, then maybe it should be added as TOS violation.

    It's certainly not irrelevant to the ongoing Doey drama.

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  • I could certainly see how flat-out calling someone's FI a pedophile could be construed as a personal attack. Along the lines of "that's a bitchy thing to do" being ok while "you're a giant bitch" is not. I don't recall and don't feel like checking if anyone actually said that straight up though, or "this sounds a lot like XYZ to me."

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  • ashley8918ashley8918 member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer
    edited September 2014
    I try to answer the repeated question, Lyndauvi is busy with work and trying her best to answer questions, but we are all volunteers and have stuff IRL :) 

    I know at least one warning was issued, bans were not issued. I am not the one who issued the warnings as it is not my board, but I inquired personally about some posts. It would be impossible to say the posts that violated TOS with it being obvious and calling out people. But to answer your question - The thread was not closed without warnings being issued. What kind of a community would we be if we start announcing who received warnings and started calling out posts? It's a fine line.

    The post(s) in question violated one or more of these:

    1. Zero Tolerance for Bullies (aka- how to get banned

    We know you are all adults, and no, we’re not going to ban you for using profanity, sarcasm or sharing your opinion in conversation. However, we are going to ban you if you’re malicious towards another user.

    Malicious, petty and/or personal attacks of any kind are unacceptable, so please be mindful of the way you address and discuss others.

    Personal attacks include, but are not limited to: starting a thread with a user’s name as the topic/title to “bash” them, linking to a thread to call out a user on their post, thoughts or beliefs (not a topic), calling a username out maliciously, starting a malicious or derogatory poll/question about a user, using images (memes, gifs, etc.) in a direct attack/vicious manner, etc.

    The Knot encourages you to share your opinions while respecting others’ thoughts and feelings as well. Feel free to share, but be ready to hear and accept other opinions that you may not always agree with. Because you do not agree with someone, does not mean this is the place to attack anyone else’s beliefs.

    “Trolling” The Knot boards by posting inflammatory or off-topic messages with the intent of provoking members/disrupting normal discussion is not permitted and will lead to warning/banning from the boards.

    Cyber bullying is not just a “teen thing” – it is very real for every age group and will not be tolerated.

    If for any reason you are suspected of bullying, there will be consequences that may eventually, if not automatically, lead to banning from the community.



    5. All is Not Fair.

    Online behavior requires common sense and basic etiquette. Accordingly, here are some rules that you agree to follow:

    • No strong, vulgar, obscene, or otherwise harmful language.
    • No racially, ethnically or otherwise, objectionable language.
    • No harassing, intimidating, stalking, or threatening other community members.
    • No libelous, defamatory, or otherwise tortuous language.
    • No online vandalism. This includes using abusive language and repeatedly hitting the return key in the chat room, or otherwise acting in a manner that negatively impacts the ability to engage in real time exchanges.
    • No impersonating any person, including, but not limited to, other community members or employees of The Knot.
    • No posting, distributing, transmitting, or promoting illegal content.
    • No invasion of another's privacy.
    • No actions that are harmful to minors.
    • No manipulation or forging of identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any information posted on The Knot site or otherwise provided to The Knot or its employees.
    • No posting, providing, transmitting, or otherwise making available any information (such as inside, proprietary or confidential information) that you do not have a right to make available due to contract, fiduciary duty, or operation of law.
    • No posting, providing, transmitting, or otherwise making available any junk mail or spam.
    • No posting, uploading, emailing, or otherwise transmitting any material that contains any malicious computer code (including spyware, worms, Trojan horses, viruses, etc.).
    • No posting, providing, transmitting, or otherwise making available any information which violates regulations promulgated by the Securities and Exchange Commission, or that of any securities exchange, such as the New York Stock Exchange.
    • No collecting, storing, or posting of personal data about or of other community members.
    • No soliciting of any kind on the message boards or in the chat room.

    But why does people getting warnings= close the thread? Sure, warn the individual posters, but why does that mean close the thread?

    Um... "no strong language"? What? Since when?

    P.S. but above that, it states that profanity is fine on account of us all being adults.

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  • Calling a pedophile a pedophile isn't any of these things.  A man in his late 20s who enters into a "relationship" with a 15 year old girl is just that.

    It the topic makes TK or the mods uncomfortable, then maybe it should be added as TOS violation.

    It's certainly not irrelevant to the ongoing Doey drama.

    Condensing quotes- I don't think its a violation of TOS but also disagree that he is a pedophile. Not going to google it at work (literally almost did before I was like oh shit) but I think its defined pretty specifically.

    Whoops this was off topic :)


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  • I think all of the mods here understand that the community is not happy the thread was closed and know that that is not the particular way to handle it. But we honestly cannot be more specific about what posts violated TOS without violating TOP ourselves.

  • Because yesterday I felt safe posing here and today I feel like I need to watch what I say. Since I am an adult who already watches what I post on the Internet, this makes me feel like I got spanked and I have no idea why. It sucks
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  • I find it funny that we all bitched when mods were taken away and then kept pleading to get them back and now that they are back we are bitching about the mods and how they handle certain situations. I can only give props to those users who have graciously volunteered to be mods of chit-chat, etiquette, wedding party and any other super popular board, because you really couldn't pay me enough to do it. As for the closed thread. Okay so it was closed. If posters really wanted to continue their conversations then start another thread and continue the discussion. I really doubt Lynda is going to let her mod power go to her head and start closing threads and banning people right, left and center. She made a decision and she explained why she made that decision. You all then expressed why you didn't like the decision that was made. That doesn't mean that she has to re-open the thread. I am sure Lynda is reading everything that you are suggesting and will use those suggestions (if she wants) in the future. But why not give her the benefit of the doubt and realize that she and all the other mods are still trying to get settled in their positions rather then jumping down her throat because of one closed thread.
    No one is asking her to re-open the thread. We're discussing other alternatives. I mean, should we just take the mods word and not question things? It's been stated multiple times that no one is blaming the mods.How does shit get straightened out without criticisim?
    I guess I just feel that this is going to happen every. single. time. a mod makes a decision to close a thread or deletes a post or bans a member. Why do we always have to question every little thing they do? Why can't we give them just a little trust that they are going to make the best decisions possible in any given circumstance to better our community? The point of mods is to take care of the boards and make hard decisions. Think of them as a manager. Are you going to question every little thing your manager does or are you going to trust your manager (to a point) to make the best decisions for you and for the masses? Why don't we just give them a chance to figure things? It is always easier to say "oh she should of done this" or "she should of done that" when you aren't the one having to make the hard choices knowing full well that you will most likely piss a lot of your peers off. I guess I am just tired of all the side line moding. Let them do their jobs and then maybe after 3 months or so since they have been active then we could have a discussion about things that we have seen that we don't agree with or ideas that we may have or changes that could be made (this is something the mods themselves could start).
    I'm going to go with "History of the TK" for this one.


  • emmaaa said:
    I think all of the mods here understand that the community is not happy the thread was closed and know that that is not the particular way to handle it. But we honestly cannot be more specific about what posts violated TOS without violating TOP ourselves.
    I just really dont care what posts violated TOS. If you do think they do, delete them. Or warn them or whatever the magic system is. To me a post that violates TOS doesn't support closing the thread. That's the connection I am not getting.

    image

  • We have a thread going right now asking KP for TK's guidance about when it's appropriate to close a thread. 

    At this point, it's up to the mod's best judgement. Objectively, that was a tough thread to mod as there was A LOT flying back and forth on very sensitive topics and it got personal really fast. There have been several already this week that have been really tough - all in Chit Chat - and I think @lyndausvi is doing a good job with the information/guidance we have at this time. 
    Huh?

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • emmaaa said:
    I think all of the mods here understand that the community is not happy the thread was closed and know that that is not the particular way to handle it. But we honestly cannot be more specific about what posts violated TOS without violating TOP ourselves.
    Nooooo, it's about WHY it was closed. Not the fact that that specific thread was closed. 

    Do we all see how little sense the bolded makes? How are we determining if we violate TOS in the future if we don't know what specific TOS was violated?
    I agree the TOS can be vague, no one disagrees with you there. But there are things in there that specifically say, do not do this. We are not the ones who wrote the TOS and aren't the ones who have the authority to change it (we could all try to bring it up though) so I'm not sure what you really want us to do.

  •  
    I'm still not seeing the TOS violations.
    It's in there, trust me. I'm not going to be more specific bc it would obvious which post and who. I'm not going to call out someone who has already been contacted/warmed just to appease the group. I certainly wouldn't want to be called out publicly just bc people wanted a specific example.
    This assists absolutely no one in avoiding TOS violations in the future.
    I don't see how it doesn't. I'm trying to be as helpful as a I can without violating the TOS myself - which I would be if I called out people. 

    We all have access to the TOS. I reread them today, that is helpful for me to avoid violations.

    The PM and warning issued to the user in question are helpful and outlined the specific violation. 

    Otherwise all any of us can do is read the TOS and try to follow them to the best of our understanding. The good news is most people will receive a warning before a banning - vendors and spammers are the exception.

    I close threads all the time on the page I moderate - zombies, move to the local and vendor ones...usually I am prompted my one of my page's regulars asking me to close it. So there are good reasons to close a thread.

    This thread, the closed thread, and the whole situation will be taken into account and I am certain all the mods will consider the reaction and feelings of the community as we move forward. 
    :kiss: ~xoxo~ :kiss:

  • hellohkbhellohkb mod
    Moderator Sixth Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its
    edited September 2014
    I am also backing up Lynda and the other mods on this one. 

    I think we all felt that doeydo is very young and probably does not have a lot of life experience yet. She has made multiple threads and people have given her the same advice over and over. Continuously giving her the same advice, while adding in some serious accusations, is not really all that productive and it was bound to have some negative consequences for doey. 


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  • SBmini said:
    Sometimes, it's just appropriate to move the crowd away from the trainwreck. There was nothing more to see there. IIf someone wants to start a general thread about guys who think they can have a say about their girl's friends then I don't think Lynda would object.
    We have a thread going right now asking KP for TK's guidance about when it's appropriate to close a thread. 

    At this point, it's up to the mod's best judgement. Objectively, that was a tough thread to mod as there was A LOT flying back and forth on very sensitive topics and it got personal really fast. There have been several already this week that have been really tough - all in Chit Chat - and I think @lyndausvi is doing a good job with the information/guidance we have at this time. 
    Is that a different thread? Do mods have a special board to post their threads on? Are regular members allowed to post their ideas on that thread, since it's us that are upset about it?

    There is a Knot suggestions board where members can post their ideas. Also- reported post functionality is back. That is the best way for members to alert mods to issues so they can be addressed. 
    Yeah, no.  I just genuinely disagree with this sentiment and others like it, such as a thread running it's course.  From the standpoint of how an online discussion forum works, these concepts don't really make sense, unless people- not claiming our mods- are trying to create an environment of control and censorship.

    I'm not trying to be an ass or stir any shit, I just fundamentally don't agree with it.

    Now, I agree with dealing appropriately with threads and comments and users that have crossed lines, like GuestbookGate.  I also agree that when a thread is becoming "difficult" for the mods they should post a kind of "Chill the Eff Out" post and then explain WHY they feel the thread is verging into the inappropriate for TK zone.

    People can't modify or monitor their behavior if they don't know what ruleset they are supposed to be playing in.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • Is this a forum or a damn museum tour?
    I get that being a mod (especially on a place with a reputation like the tk - I don't envy you one bit!) is hard, but I don't think it was ever a mod's job to go "and we're walking, we're walking, moving on to the next thread!"



    As for mods having to make decisions whether or not that's what the community wants, why? Usually, a community with open discussion is pretty spot-on.

    Works great for that other online forum many of us frequent...

    No answer to the TOS violation question posted a number of times here, either. Sorry I'm coming off as snarky here but censorship makes me angry. Rules make me happy. I'm trying to figure out which rule was broken.
    This is basically what I was trying to get at.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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