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Catholic in religious identity crisis effecting ceremony decision

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Re: Catholic in religious identity crisis effecting ceremony decision

  • MobKaz said:
    tristes said:
    MobKaz said:
    tristes said:
    I don't know if this helps, but I am being married by an Independent Catholic priest at my reception venue. He is able to do a full mass with Eucharist, but it's open eucharist so everyone can partake. It won't be recognized by the Roman Catholic Church.
    I'm genuinely curious (and not passing judgement).  Why are you taking this route?
    I'm curious as well.  The Catholic Church does not have any "independent priests".  I understand wanting a religious ceremony, but regardless of who officiates, it is meaningless in the eyes of the Catholic Church.  He may be performing something that resembles a Mass, and offering a communion of some sort, but he is NOT offering a Mass nor is he offering the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. 
    The Roman Catholic Church does not have "independent priests," you are correct. Our priest is part of the Franciscan Community of Mercy, part of the National Catholic Church. He will be performing a Mass and we will have Eucharist, and our wedding will not be "meaningless" in the eyes of our Catholic church, independent from the RCC.
    I can only speak to the information you provide.  YOU stated you were baptized Roman Catholic, and then referred only to Catholic in the remainder of your post.  With that information, what you planned would be meaningless in the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church.  At no point did you say you were referring to the National Catholic Church, which is an expression outside the RCC and the Vatican. 
    Sorry, i said independent Catholic referring to being outside of RCC because I was in a rush. I just thought it might be helpful to OP who stated she's having a religious identity crisis, so maybe there are options might solve that and allow an outdoor ceremony?
  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 a taco truck in Houston member
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    tristes said:
    MobKaz said:
    tristes said:
    MobKaz said:
    tristes said:
    I don't know if this helps, but I am being married by an Independent Catholic priest at my reception venue. He is able to do a full mass with Eucharist, but it's open eucharist so everyone can partake. It won't be recognized by the Roman Catholic Church.
    I'm genuinely curious (and not passing judgement).  Why are you taking this route?
    I'm curious as well.  The Catholic Church does not have any "independent priests".  I understand wanting a religious ceremony, but regardless of who officiates, it is meaningless in the eyes of the Catholic Church.  He may be performing something that resembles a Mass, and offering a communion of some sort, but he is NOT offering a Mass nor is he offering the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. 
    The Roman Catholic Church does not have "independent priests," you are correct. Our priest is part of the Franciscan Community of Mercy, part of the National Catholic Church. He will be performing a Mass and we will have Eucharist, and our wedding will not be "meaningless" in the eyes of our Catholic church, independent from the RCC.
    I can only speak to the information you provide.  YOU stated you were baptized Roman Catholic, and then referred only to Catholic in the remainder of your post.  With that information, what you planned would be meaningless in the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church.  At no point did you say you were referring to the National Catholic Church, which is an expression outside the RCC and the Vatican. 
    Sorry, i said independent Catholic referring to being outside of RCC because I was in a rush. I just thought it might be helpful to OP who stated she's having a religious identity crisis, so maybe there are options might solve that and allow an outdoor ceremony?

    I've never heard of this group. Which is it - http://www.nationalcatholicchurch.org/NCC/Welcome.html. Or this. http://americannationalcatholicchurch.org. ?
  • MobKazMobKaz Chicago suburbs member
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    edited September 2014
    tristes said:
    MobKaz said:
    tristes said:
    MobKaz said:
    tristes said:
    I don't know if this helps, but I am being married by an Independent Catholic priest at my reception venue. He is able to do a full mass with Eucharist, but it's open eucharist so everyone can partake. It won't be recognized by the Roman Catholic Church.
    I'm genuinely curious (and not passing judgement).  Why are you taking this route?
    I'm curious as well.  The Catholic Church does not have any "independent priests".  I understand wanting a religious ceremony, but regardless of who officiates, it is meaningless in the eyes of the Catholic Church.  He may be performing something that resembles a Mass, and offering a communion of some sort, but he is NOT offering a Mass nor is he offering the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. 
    The Roman Catholic Church does not have "independent priests," you are correct. Our priest is part of the Franciscan Community of Mercy, part of the National Catholic Church. He will be performing a Mass and we will have Eucharist, and our wedding will not be "meaningless" in the eyes of our Catholic church, independent from the RCC.
    I can only speak to the information you provide.  YOU stated you were baptized Roman Catholic, and then referred only to Catholic in the remainder of your post.  With that information, what you planned would be meaningless in the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church.  At no point did you say you were referring to the National Catholic Church, which is an expression outside the RCC and the Vatican. 
    Sorry, i said independent Catholic referring to being outside of RCC because I was in a rush. I just thought it might be helpful to OP who stated she's having a religious identity crisis, so maybe there are options might solve that and allow an outdoor ceremony?
    Actually, I also confused you and the OP with some of the facts.  It was the OP that initially mentioned being Roman Catholic, not you.  When you mentioned an independent priest, I presumed you were referring to retired or "fallen" priests.  I just wanted to clarify to the OP that unless the officiating priest is in good standing with the RCC, it would not matter who officiated, as the marriage would not be recognized.
  • The second link. Our priest is part of a ministry affiliated with that organization.
    Anyhow I feel bad now I didn't mean to derail the thread!
  • I do have a problem with this group.  I have informed several very unhappy brides that they were not recognized or affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church.  These ladies were not told this, and had made plans for thier outdoor weddings, not knowing the consequences.  They were furious that they had been mislead.
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
    MobKazholyguacamole79southernbelle0915
  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 a taco truck in Houston member
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    I love your story, @mariepoppy! Thanks for sharing!!
    MairePoppy
  • MairePoppyMairePoppy Connecticut mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its


    CMGragain said:
    I do have a problem with this group.  I have informed several very unhappy brides that they were not recognized or affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church.  These ladies were not told this, and had made plans for thier outdoor weddings, not knowing the consequences.  They were furious that they had been mislead.

    I won't speak for or against the ICC. There are some that follow the RCC traditions and welcome Catholics who don't feel included fully in the RCC. They are sincere in their ministry. Others, I'm sure, are glorified rent-a-priests. There is no central governing, such as the Pope. Each church forms their own rules and mission statement. 

    I wonder if some of those brides were hearing what they wanted to hear. KWIM? CMGRagain, I think you know more about Roman Catholicism than many cradle Catholics. Those brides who are shocked when they find out they can't get married on the beach by a RC priest, haven't been paying attention. It should dawn on them that every single Catholic wedding they have attended has been inside a church.



                       
    [Deleted User]
  • OP, a little insight:

    Catholic Mass that takes place outside is allowed to happen because there is an Altar blessed in a certain way, and there is a Tabernacle for the reposition of the Eucharist.  If you wanted to get married "outside" in a park or a garden, these spaces have not been consecrated - that is why the RCC will not allow people getting married outside; this is different than holding an outdoor Mass (the circumstances are different).

    This isn't true.

    In fact, many Catholic churches aren't consecrated. Some are. When masses are held outdoors, whatever is used as an altar does not have to be blessed, and there are no tabernacles outdoors. (rare exceptions at Catholic outdoor grottos with an overseer). 

    Masses are held ideally in a church, or a proper place. When there are special masses outdoors, there is some sort of specific reason (a feast, pilgrimage, retreat, etc.). 

    The reasons that a Catholic wedding cannot be held outdoors, or somewhere other than a Catholic church are: 1) It is a vocational sacrament-- which by definition means its a public statement to the community to image Christ's love to the church. The church building is symbolic of the parish community and world wide Catholic church.  2) The jurisdiction of a parishioner and records: Marriage (along with baptism, and sometimes other sacraments) are recorded on the baptismal certificate of the parish of baptism. Marriage must go through a jurisdiction for proper record keeping. (Even when someone gets married at a parish they aren't a member of, it still has to be a canonical parish). 3) Proper form and matter must be present for a valid and/or sacramental marriage. Having the wedding at a Catholic church ensures that proper form is followed.

    Each reception of the Eucharist isn't recorded, and one doesn't have to go to their specific parish to go to mass. 

    A Catholic may get a dispensation from form to have their marriage somewhere else, for good reason. (Desiring an outdoor wedding is not). 
    holyguacamole79
  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 a taco truck in Houston member
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    I'm so glad you talked to the priest! All the best for a beautiful wedding! And if you would like to talk about your faith struggles, you can PM me. I teach RCIA at our church.
  • MairePoppyMairePoppy Connecticut mod
    Moderator Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    Thanks for the link. I caught the end of that story on the news last night and wondered what it was about. Best wishes on your upcoming marriage.
                       
  • I don't really have any insight but I did want to add - my fiance and I are in a similar situation - I'm baptized Roman Catholic, but I'm not practicing, and my fiance is baptist. 
    My mom said the most helpful thing which was "No matter what you choose, your wedding should be about the unity of you two, not what is different." So she suggested (even though she's VERY catholic) that we not do a mass or Eucharist because it would have been uncomfortable for either one side of the family or the other. 
  • Similar situation here. As a liberal feminist, I have been having a religious identity crisis for about 10 years now. This wasn't helped when the local RC Churches refused to even do our pre-cana work because FI and I had moved in together after getting engaged. My family told me to lie to the priest doing the pre-cana work, and I just couldn't handle that. As a last resort I contacted a jesuit church* that was in a different diocese nearby.

    Jesuits tend to be a little more liberal on social issues, and much more focused on social justice than other orders. It's not perfect, but they're much less judgmental  than the other RCCs nearby. After talking to the priest we determined it was worth giving it a try, since he really seemed eager to bring us back into the fold of Catholicism and getting us ready for our marriage, and said our living situation was not an issue. 

    *I came up with this idea after the Jesuit priest at my parents church told them during bible study that jesuits often support female deacons, are not all anti-gay marriage, and are much less focused on being anti womens issues, all while being more social justice focused. They tend to butt heads with Rome on alot of topics I guess, but it really is priest to priest. Some can also be v conservative.  
  • I went and talked to another priest, a local one, and told him about all of my issues that I was having and why I was in my identity crisis and he was very laid back and definitely NOT what I'm used to in a Catholic priest.  He was wearing jeans and a tshirt, where as the priest's i'm used to dealing with wear the typical black pants and shirt with the collar.
    He told me that it unfortunate that I had ran into so many priests who - in his words - where asses (never have I ever heard a priest swear)
    It was very refreshing for me to meet a priest like that.  He told me to go ahead and have my wedding where I want - since I already have the ball rolling on an out of town wedding - and when I want/am ready he would validate our marriage for us. 

    holyguacamole79slothiegalOliveOilsMom
  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 a taco truck in Houston member
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    @kavo0406‌, I'm so glad you had a good chat with this priest!!!
    kavo0406
  • MobKazMobKaz Chicago suburbs member
    Knottie Warrior 5000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    erinemm said:
    Similar situation here. As a liberal feminist, I have been having a religious identity crisis for about 10 years now. This wasn't helped when the local RC Churches refused to even do our pre-cana work because FI and I had moved in together after getting engaged. My family told me to lie to the priest doing the pre-cana work, and I just couldn't handle that. As a last resort I contacted a jesuit church* that was in a different diocese nearby.

    Jesuits tend to be a little more liberal on social issues, and much more focused on social justice than other orders. It's not perfect, but they're much less judgmental  than the other RCCs nearby. After talking to the priest we determined it was worth giving it a try, since he really seemed eager to bring us back into the fold of Catholicism and getting us ready for our marriage, and said our living situation was not an issue. 

    *I came up with this idea after the Jesuit priest at my parents church told them during bible study that jesuits often support female deacons, are not all anti-gay marriage, and are much less focused on being anti womens issues, all while being more social justice focused. They tend to butt heads with Rome on alot of topics I guess, but it really is priest to priest. Some can also be v conservative.  

    I attended a Jesuit university. Following graduation, I returned home to marry in my childhood parish. (This was in the late 70's.). When it came time to enroll in Pre-Cana classes, the pastor of the parish told us not to bother, because he could not "undo" the corruption/damage done by 4 years of Jesuit teachings. I was flabbergasted, but, as a 20-something young woman, was just as glad to get out of classes I assumed would be canned and meaningless.
  • I'm sure this pope wouldn't mind if you had an outdoor ceremony; also I've seen outdoor weddings with priests officiating. If neither of you go to any church now, what's the need to have the wedding in a church? I'd go with whatever feels best.
  • I'm sure this pope wouldn't mind if you had an outdoor ceremony; also I've seen outdoor weddings with priests officiating. If neither of you go to any church now, what's the need to have the wedding in a church? I'd go with whatever feels best.

    You're sure he'd be cool with breaking rules over a desired look? Really? I have a feeling you don't really know him that well.

    MairePoppyOliveOilsMom
  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 a taco truck in Houston member
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    I'm sure this pope wouldn't mind if you had an outdoor ceremony; also I've seen outdoor weddings with priests officiating. If neither of you go to any church now, what's the need to have the wedding in a church? I'd go with whatever feels best.
    *snort*. Did you see Catholic priests doing outdoor ceremonies? And are you SURE that these priests are in communion with Rome? I doubt it. And I'm sure Francis is not a fan.
    banana468
  • Just a note, Catholic Masses that are held outside or in other non-traditional venues (such as sports arenas) require special dispensation from the Bishop for very good reason, usually, such as with Catholic University Masses that reason is that the community is too large for the Church building. It is not because it's prettier outside, it's because you want the entire community to be able to attend and the Church building is not big enough to hold everyone.
    MairePoppyholyguacamole79
  • Talk to your fiance and find out what is important for him.  Have the discussion of how you want to raise your children. This is all part of creating a life together and better to have the conversation now.  From the sounds of it- he has no opinion and will do whatever makes you happy.  But if you are raising your children catholic, then this will be a huge part of his life since he I assume will have to take part in their catholic upbringing.  At the same time, ask yourself how important this all is to you.  My fiance was raised catholic, taught Sunday school/ CCD and is now an atheist.  We are having a JOP marry us and will not be having our children baptized.  I wasn't raised religious and my parents left it up to me to decide my beliefs.   


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