Pre-wedding Parties

Bachelor party...

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Re: Bachelor party...

  • klk111415klk111415
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    edited November 2014
    beethery My viewpoint on strippers and everyone else's viewpoint on strippers is much different.  As I said- I went to a strip club with my fiance.  I think that strippers are good at dancing, have a lot more guts than I ever will, and they are just doing what they do to make money.  Are there trashy strip clubs- yes.  New Orleans was full of them and you can pay some strippers little extra for a happy ending.  But the one I went to was girls from Vermont.  It was the strangest experience of my life (it was also attached to a bowling ally).  And the no touching rule strictly applies to men from what I can tell because I can now say I know what implants feel like and while I was very nervous, one girls came over told me to put my hands in the air and take a deep breath and with that she lifted my shirt and bra and said "now you know what it's like" (thankfully there weren't many people there). But after going to a strip club and realizing that it's really a bunch of girls dancing in skimpy outfits, I no longer had a problem with them.  But from the looks of it- a lot of other girls find them to be trashy so I was using the wording that would appease them.  

    I commend you for having more guts and better rhythm than I ever will.  On my list of things I want to do for my bachelorette party is pole dancing- I have an ass and have no idea how to shake it. Me sexy dance is pitiful.  

    And I shouldn't have generalized that strippers are trashy just to appease others.  Sorry about that.  
  • I don't care one way or the other on people's opinions of what's trashy and what isn't, and that's not what I was after in the first place. Mostly I just needed words of wisdom that all will be fine, and that I can speak my mind about things to my FI. Clearly hearing that we should be able to talk about these things without a fight helps, and advice helped me talk about it with him. As I said, this isn't about a trashy vs. classy issue, it's about comfort levels and things that I'm not comfortable with. It was really helpful to see some opinions of things I should be able to say and realize that yes we do need to talk about a lot of things because situations are not handled how they should be at our house. Like I said in my first post, I am feeling like I'm being crazy, and I probably am. Do I feel more relaxed after reading some other things people have said? Sure. Does it make everything better? It's not perfect but I needed other voices to make me step back and think about things from a different view point.
    jenijoyk
  • Maggie0829Maggie0829 Ravens & Bohs & Crabs & O's
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    You read my mind.

    @kk111415 - Don't try and back peddle now that you were called out on your judgmental bullshit. You were quoted and you most definitely called strippers trashy.  Not cool.  If you don't like strip clubs that is fine, you don't have to.  But to lump all the women who work at them trashy is a super trashy thing to do.

    sarawifenowesstee33climbingwife
  • @sarawifenow Oh whatever.  I was the was saying that it is stupid to get upset when your significant other goes to a strip club because unlike what most girls perceive them as being, they are in fact not whore houses.

    And yeah, prior to going to one- I was one of those girls.  But I gained a respect for women who can do something I could never dream of doing because I have my own insecurities.  It takes a girl who is comfortable in her own skin and afraid of nothing to do that.  I am not that person. 

    But you can't say that every stripper out there is perfect and not trashy.  Trashy is a man who comes home from a bachelor party with an STD because he had sex with a stripper.  And then has to sneak pills into his wife's food because he gave it to her and didn't tell her.  Well, in that case the guy is bastard- but the woman who gives the guy the STD is still pretty trashy.


    True story.   



  • slothiegalslothiegal The Sloth Farm
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    kk111415 said:
    @sarawifenow Oh whatever.  I was the was saying that it is stupid to get upset when your significant other goes to a strip club because unlike what most girls perceive them as being, they are in fact not whore houses.

    And yeah, prior to going to one- I was one of those girls.  But I gained a respect for women who can do something I could never dream of doing because I have my own insecurities.  It takes a girl who is comfortable in her own skin and afraid of nothing to do that.  I am not that person. 

    But you can't say that every stripper out there is perfect and not trashy.  Trashy is a man who comes home from a bachelor party with an STD because he had sex with a stripper.  And then has to sneak pills into his wife's food because he gave it to her and didn't tell her.  Well, in that case the guy is bastard- but the woman who gives the guy the STD is still pretty trashy.


    True story.   



    Just like you can't say every teacher/police officer/doctor/mother/father/INSERT WHATEVER HERE is perfect and not trashy.

    Crazy, strippers are just like everyone else!
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    chibiyui
  • @Maggie0829 , I apologized for making that generalization.  Get with the picture.  And once again- not the one who has a huge problem with strip clubs, but some girls on this discussion do.  

    Not all strippers are trashy, that is true- but there are some strippers who take their job to a whole new level, break the rules, and pretty much use the strip club as a there own prostitution ring- those girls are trashy.  

    If you are just dancing, making money and giving lap dances- that's not trashy.  That's your job and what your job entails. 
  • slothiegalslothiegal The Sloth Farm
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    kk111415 said:
    @Maggie0829 , I apologized for making that generalization.  Get with the picture.  And once again- not the one who has a huge problem with strip clubs, but some girls on this discussion do.  

    Not all strippers are trashy, that is true- but there are some strippers who take their job to a whole new level, break the rules, and pretty much use the strip club as a there own prostitution ring- those girls are trashy.  

    If you are just dancing, making money and giving lap dances- that's not trashy.  That's your job and what your job entails. 
    ....but you called the girls dancing trashy.

    Look, you can have your differing opinion, but at least own up to it.


    kk111415 said:

    They don't go because they are comparing you to the trashy women dancing in front of them. 
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    sarawifenowchibiyuiesstee33Maggie0829
  • sarawifenowsarawifenow Denver, baby!
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    kk111415 said:
    @sarawifenow Oh whatever.  I was the was saying that it is stupid to get upset when your significant other goes to a strip club because unlike what most girls perceive them as being, they are in fact not whore houses.

    And yeah, prior to going to one- I was one of those girls.  But I gained a respect for women who can do something I could never dream of doing because I have my own insecurities.  It takes a girl who is comfortable in her own skin and afraid of nothing to do that.  I am not that person. 

    But you can't say that every stripper out there is perfect and not trashy.  Trashy is a man who comes home from a bachelor party with an STD because he had sex with a stripper.  And then has to sneak pills into his wife's food because he gave it to her and didn't tell her.  Well, in that case the guy is bastard- but the woman who gives the guy the STD is still pretty trashy.


    True story.   




    @kk111415 Oh whatever yourself. You keep going back and forth. One minute you say that you hate strip clubs and they are dirty and the strippers are trashy and the next you say that you don't have a problem with them yadayadayada. I can quote you if you'd like.

     

    Look, I have the unpopular opinion on strip clubs. They make me super uncomfortable and I would be pissed if H went. Funny thing is, I don't judge strippers and most certainly don't call them trash.

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    jenijoyk
  • plainjane0415plainjane0415 The hills of Tennessee
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    @kk111415 it's just really not ok to downgrade women, period.  I don't care what they do for a living. How would you feel if someone felt that your profession was "trashy" or "less than desirable" you'd probably be mad and feel like total crap.  Alienating people because of what they CHOOSE to do for a living is not your concern.  Think before you speak. This is a PUBLIC forum.
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    esstee33
  • esstee33esstee33 Pittsburgh
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    kk111415 said:
    beethery My viewpoint on strippers and everyone else's viewpoint on strippers is much different.  As I said- I went to a strip club with my fiance.  I think that strippers are good at dancing, have a lot more guts than I ever will, and they are just doing what they do to make money.  Are there trashy strip clubs- yes.  New Orleans was full of them and you can pay some strippers little extra for a happy ending.  But the one I went to was girls from Vermont.  It was the strangest experience of my life (it was also attached to a bowling ally).  And the no touching rule strictly applies to men from what I can tell because I can now say I know what implants feel like and while I was very nervous, one girls came over told me to put my hands in the air and take a deep breath and with that she lifted my shirt and bra and said "now you know what it's like" (thankfully there weren't many people there). But after going to a strip club and realizing that it's really a bunch of girls dancing in skimpy outfits, I no longer had a problem with them.  But from the looks of it- a lot of other girls find them to be trashy so I was using the wording that would appease them.  

    I commend you for having more guts and better rhythm than I ever will.  On my list of things I want to do for my bachelorette party is pole dancing- I have an ass and have no idea how to shake it. Me sexy dance is pitiful.  

    And I shouldn't have generalized that strippers are trashy just to appease others.  Sorry about that.  
    Has it ever occurred to you in your apparently nearly endless ruminations on how strippers justify their trashy lifestyles that some of them actually dance BECAUSE THEY LIKE IT, and not because they're desperate to pay bills or whatever other tragic backstory you've made up for them? 

    SO MUCH of what people bristle about in your posts could just be avoided if you'd grow a backbone, state your fucking opinion, and back it up, rather than constantly changing your story to try to make people like you. 

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    slothiegalchibiyui
  • Sorry for not having the backbone from the start.  

    My honest opinion?  I told you that.  I don't hate strip clubs for the same reason as most girls do. I'm not jealous of the girls or think my fiance is going to cheat.  My only qualm with them is that I think it's a waste of money. 

    I made a generalization about strippers being trashy and although I apologized, I obviously can't take that statement back without being called a back peddler or a person without a backbone.  

    And somehow even when I said I have respect for women who can do something I can't- I'm still wrong.  Even if I'm giving you my honest opinion and apologizing for making a generalization, all your eyes can read is the first thing I said.  So I'm not sure there is even a reason to respond to you if you can't read my responses before opening your mouth.

    The story I used as an example is not a rumor.  Happened to a guy on a bachelor party my fiance attended, and obviously not all strippers are prostitutes on the side, but there are some who give strippers a bad rep.  

    If I really had a problem with strip clubs and strippers, why the fuck would I go to one?  I was motorboated by a stripper, had my boobs grabbed by a stripper, had a stripper grab my hands and place them on her boobs. And had one lift my shirt and bra, grab my boobs and comment how she liked my boobs.  And somehow after such a crazy experience, I can still say that I have respect for the women who dance on a stage in a way that I never could see myself doing.  SO HOW IS THAT FOR MY FUCKING OPINION?  
  • Oh, and the girls at that strip club told me they were paying their way through college.  If I could dance, I would totally be doing the same to pay student loans back.  There's no problem with enjoying dancing, though.  And if you're good at it, then do it! 
  • slothiegalslothiegal The Sloth Farm
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    edited November 2014

    kk111415 said:
    Sorry for not having the backbone from the start.  

    My honest opinion?  I told you that.  I don't hate strip clubs for the same reason as most girls do. I'm not jealous of the girls or think my fiance is going to cheat.  My only qualm with them is that I think it's a waste of money. 

    I made a generalization about strippers being trashy and although I apologized, I obviously can't take that statement back without being called a back peddler or a person without a backbone.  

    And somehow even when I said I have respect for women who can do something I can't- I'm still wrong.  Even if I'm giving you my honest opinion and apologizing for making a generalization, all your eyes can read is the first thing I said.  So I'm not sure there is even a reason to respond to you if you can't read my responses before opening your mouth.

    The story I used as an example is not a rumor.  Happened to a guy on a bachelor party my fiance attended, and obviously not all strippers are prostitutes on the side, but there are some who give strippers a bad rep.  

    If I really had a problem with strip clubs and strippers, why the fuck would I go to one?  I was motorboated by a stripper, had my boobs grabbed by a stripper, had a stripper grab my hands and place them on her boobs. And had one lift my shirt and bra, grab my boobs and comment how she liked my boobs.  And somehow after such a crazy experience, I can still say that I have respect for the women who dance on a stage in a way that I never could see myself doing.  SO HOW IS THAT FOR MY FUCKING OPINION?  
    People are having a hard time believing that, because the first few posts you made were ALL negative and derogatory.  There was no, "hey, not my cup of tea, but whatever".  It was, "Strip clubs ARE gross and ARE trashy and ARE degrading to women".  It was only when people starting calling you out when suddenly it came out, no, you're not trying to generalize.

    And again, I think it's bullshit to say "some strippers give others a bad rep".  No shit.  You could say that about literally ANY group of people.  






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  • esstee33esstee33 Pittsburgh
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    Yup, @slothiegal just about covered it. If this were your "honest opinion," why start out with "strippers are trashy" and all the rest? If you want us to believe the "truth," it needs to actually sound true. 

    Glad you found that backbone, though. 
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    AddieCake
  • kae07 said:
    I don't care one way or the other on people's opinions of what's trashy and what isn't, and that's not what I was after in the first place. Mostly I just needed words of wisdom that all will be fine, and that I can speak my mind about things to my FI. Clearly hearing that we should be able to talk about these things without a fight helps, and advice helped me talk about it with him. As I said, this isn't about a trashy vs. classy issue, it's about comfort levels and things that I'm not comfortable with. It was really helpful to see some opinions of things I should be able to say and realize that yes we do need to talk about a lot of things because situations are not handled how they should be at our house. Like I said in my first post, I am feeling like I'm being crazy, and I probably am. Do I feel more relaxed after reading some other things people have said? Sure. Does it make everything better? It's not perfect but I needed other voices to make me step back and think about things from a different view point.

    You saying these things made me happy. You can totally be uncomfortable with strip clubs. You should totally be able to express that to your fiance. Being uncomfortable with strip clubs does not make you uptight or crazy or controlling. Being uncomfortable with them does not mean you are equating them with things that are trashy. Stick up for yourself and your relationship and what you want. Yay for pre-marital counseling. It will provide a safe place to talk it all out. Good luck!  
    kae07
  • jenijoykjenijoyk
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    edited November 2014

    Also, @kae07, if you have not read Gone Girl, this (don't let him tell you that are not a Cool Girl because you don't want him to go to strip clubs, aren't ok with him never inviting you out with his guy friends, point out when you think he's being disrespectful of your feelings, etc.):

    “Men always say that as the defining compliment, don’t they? She’s a cool girl. Being the Cool Girl means I am a hot, brilliant, funny woman who adores football, poker, dirty jokes, and burping, who plays video games, drinks cheap beer, loves threesomes and anal sex, and jams hot dogs and hamburgers into her mouth like she’s hosting the world’s biggest culinary gang bang while somehow maintaining a size 2, because Cool Girls are above all hot. Hot and understanding. Cool Girls never get angry; they only smile in a chagrined, loving manner and let their men do whatever they want. Go ahead, shit on me, I don’t mind, I’m the Cool Girl.

    Men actually think this girl exists. Maybe they’re fooled because so many women are willing to pretend to be this girl. For a long time Cool Girl offended me. I used to see men – friends, coworkers, strangers – giddy over these awful pretender women, and I’d want to sit these men down and calmly say: You are not dating a woman, you are dating a woman who has watched too many movies written by socially awkward men who’d like to believe that this kind of woman exists and might kiss them. I’d want to grab the poor guy by his lapels or messenger bag and say: The bitch doesn’t really love chili dogs that much – no one loves chili dogs that much! And the Cool Girls are even more pathetic: They’re not even pretending to be the woman they want to be, they’re pretending to be the woman a man wants them to be. Oh, and if you’re not a Cool Girl, I beg you not to believe that your man doesn’t want the Cool Girl. It may be a slightly different version – maybe he’s a vegetarian, so Cool Girl loves seitan and is great with dogs; or maybe he’s a hipster artist, so Cool Girl is a tattooed, bespectacled nerd who loves comics. There are variations to the window dressing, but believe me, he wants Cool Girl, who is basically the girl who likes every fucking thing he likes and doesn’t ever complain. (How do you know you’re not Cool Girl? Because he says things like: “I like strong women.” If he says that to you, he will at some point fuck someone else. Because “I like strong women” is code for “I hate strong women.”)”

    Gillian Flynn, Gone Girl

    kae07
  • climbingwifeclimbingwife NYC 'burbs
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    kk111415 said:
    I definitely didn't think you are saying anything to offend his friends and it sucks to be disrespected by them when all you are trying to do is get to know them.  It has irked me also, and I totally know that feeling.  I hope it isn't all of his friends that act this way.


    Are a lot of his friends single?  If so- that will make a huge difference in how they respond to your presence.  I find that my fiance's single guy friends hate having me around and they plan weekend getaways with the guys only.  But the moment they get significant others- they want to hang out again.  

    Your fiance should definitely speak up on what he wants for his bachelor party.  I've seen it all to much that the BM plans a party geared more towards their own wants (because they are single) and ignores what the groom wants.  If he isn't into the strip club thing- then he has to say that without any hesitation that they may judge him.

    And I don't see the bachelor party as the last moment before the groom is fully committed to you. It's a boys getaway to have some fun whether that's going to a sporting event, casino, bar- what have you.  It's a weekend getaway to celebrate the groom with all of his closest friends with him. 

    If you feel you need pre-marital counseling to have someone help you communicate your concerns to each other- then that is your best bet. 


    JFC. Can you just NOT with this fucking bullshit. I didn't realize that you spoke for all the single men on the planet. But I'm here to tell you that you do not. My husband is 41, and the majority of his friends are from HS and elementary school. 50% are married, 50% are single.  And all of them welcomed me with open arms into their group. None of them treat me differently. The single guys and I have great relationships, and they even reach out to me directly to invite me to things. So again, fucking STOP. 

    plainjane0415esstee33
  • @climbingbrideny Well, if you knew me (which you don't) it was far beyond my comfort zone.  Yeah, maybe to you that isn't scandalous, but to each his own.  

    And the single guy thing I spoke of- I'm not talking about the guys who have reached the level of maturity you husbands friends have.  Yes, single guys can welcome you with open arms, and I know plenty that do.  But then I have experience with the guys who want to have their guy time to go out with their wing man and find girls.  I've also had experience with the depressed guys who are single for a reason who resent your relationship and troll you on any occasion you might post about how much you love your significant other or how you are excited about your anniversary or valentine's day.  It's those kind of single guys who have a lot of issues it their lives that all they can do is bring their friends down.  (And this guy has been known to troll Humans of New York by saying shit like "We all die alone" on sweet posts about couples)  

    It doesn't apply to all single men, but the ones that haven't reached a level of maturity can be difficult to be around.  Your husbands friends are obviously mature and good friends- but that doesn't mean that all single men act the same way as your husband's friends.  

    And even I have my own issues with my fiance's single friends.  I planned to go out next week for our "1 year before we get married" anniversary, and I'm now told they made the same exact plans for the same exact restaurant but instead to take him out to celebrate "1 Year before we never see you again" Which of course pissed me off.  His single friends have this feelings that he's going to change after we are married despite the fact that we have been together for over 6 years, living together for 5, and I don't stand in his way of going out with them.  The difference between now and after we are married is that his left hand will have a ring on it, we will be filing our taxes together, and I will have his last name (besides starting the next chapter of our lives together- and all the other reasons we actually want to get married)  His single friends are in that rut of wanting to find a girl ASAP and settle down and start a family but not finding exactly what they are looking for.

    As far as prostitution, I'm against it.  It's far more than just sex for money.  It's extremely dangerous for women.  Don't forget that behind every prostitute is her pimp or trafficker.  Do you think he is just sending her out, and allowing her to keep her the money she made?  If you think that every woman out there is doing this voluntarily, your wrong.  Human trafficking is a real problem in this world and the abuse and violence that you don't hear about (until of course, one turns up dead) is crazy.  Countries that have  legalized prostitution are seeing greater incidences of human trafficking inflows.  So I guess that may answer your question.  I think it should remain illegal, and countries that have it legalized are just supporting human trafficking and putting innocent women and girls in danger.   


  • esstee33esstee33 Pittsburgh
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    kk111415 said: 
    @climbingbrideny Well, if you knew me (which you don't) it was far beyond my comfort zone.  Yeah, maybe to you that isn't scandalous, but to each his own.  
    Really? I wouldn't have taken you as an uptight sort of person. 
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    slothiegalbeetherypenguin44
  • climbingwifeclimbingwife NYC 'burbs
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    esstee33 said:
    kk111415 said: 
    @climbingbrideny Well, if you knew me (which you don't) it was far beyond my comfort zone.  Yeah, maybe to you that isn't scandalous, but to each his own.  
    Really? I wouldn't have taken you as an uptight sort of person. 
    image

    beetherychibiyui
  • Yeah, I'm not perfect and maybe I can be uptight at times.  Other times I'm pretty easygoing but as far as the strip club was concerned- yeah I was uptight because unlike the girls dancing in front of me with amazing bodies, I don't have their confidence.  And as much as I would love to change who I am, I'm the way I am for a reason.  


  • beetherybeethery So sayeth the fuckin' Pope.
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    kk111415 said:
    Yeah, I'm not perfect and maybe I can be uptight at times.  Other times I'm pretty easygoing but as far as the strip club was concerned- yeah I was uptight because unlike the girls dancing in front of me with amazing bodies, I don't have their confidence.  And as much as I would love to change who I am, I'm the way I am for a reason.  


    Insecurity on your part (general you), is not a reason to vilify strippers or strip clubs.
    --

    I'm the fuck out.

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    Maggie0829esstee33chibiyuiclimbingwife
  • That's definitely true.  I've admitted my wrong doings for making generalizations.  Sorry about that.  And I have given you a compliment that I commend you for doing something that I don't have the confidence (or body) to do.  So now that this no longer has anything to do with the original discussion, can we end this?  
  • beetherybeethery So sayeth the fuckin' Pope.
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    kk111415 said:
    That's definitely true.  I've admitted my wrong doings for making generalizations.  Sorry about that.  And I have given you a compliment that I commend you for doing something that I don't have the confidence (or body) to do.  So now that this no longer has anything to do with the original discussion, can we end this?  
    I was addressing the tone the entire conversation had taken. Chill.
    --

    I'm the fuck out.

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