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Hobby Lobby Sale

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Re: Hobby Lobby Sale

  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 member
    5000 Comments Sixth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    edited November 2014
    @abbyj700, as a Catholic, it is a sin to be involved in someone else's sin.  And, for us, using contraceptives for birth control reasons is a sin.  For example, if one of my youth group kids asked me to take her to an obgyn to get on the Pill, I would not do it because it is contributing to her sin.

    I recognize that corporations aren't people, and that the SCOTUS ruling blurs that line legally.  However, there are people running this corporation who do not want to violate their religious beliefs by financially contributing to buying contraceptives.

    I hope this helps.  Like @emmaaa, I don't want to get into this debate.  But since you asked, that's where I stand.




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  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    princessofgenovia said:
    PrettyGirlLost said:
    There are places where they don't lock up the spray paint? I have never seen this. Even in Home Depot ours is in a cage and you get an employee to unlock said cage. I figured this was how it was everywhere.
    The only place I have seen this is Michaels and mabye Hobby Lobby. . . JoAnn and Pat Catans don't in my area, neither do the housing supply stores. I assumed stores locked up spray paint to prevent theft for huffing.
    Thats what I figured as well. Walmart, Michaels, Lowes, Home Depot, Ace, all of them lock it up in my state. Not sure about Hobby Lobby, didn't last very long in there to find out, and I've never looked at JoAnn's spray paint to know.
    That's what doesn't make sense in my city. . . most of those places you and I mentioned *don't* lock up the spray paint.  It seems like only Michaels and I think HL.  Maybe it's a store policy for Michaels, as opposed to a state policy?

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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  • ashley8918ashley8918 member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer
    abbyj700 said:
    I'll just say I politely disagree with you and find some of your reasoning misinformed...
    Seconded.
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  • lilacck28lilacck28 member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary First Answer
    larrygaga said:
    I go to Michael's for painting supplies. I don't know a thing about their yarn. Obviously "real artists" can be stuck up about their paint not being super fancy, but it suits me just fine. 

    You gotta have good yarn to knit though.


    STUCK IN BOX

    I'm a snobby real artist. Damn straight it makes a difference ;)

    What type of paint do you buy? A lot of those stores DO have the main brands that artists use (winsor newton, golden.) BUT, there's a MAJOR difference in acryllic student grade vs professional/ artist grade. For example, in professional grade, you can mix cadmium red and phthalo blue and get a lovely black that won't dull your paintings the way a tube of black will. But in student grade, it's just not possible. (I've been teaching youngins with student grade. It's so frustrating when I'm forced to hand over a dab of black-from-the-tube to them!)

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  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 member
    5000 Comments Sixth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    ashley8918 said:
    abbyj700 said:
    I'll just say I politely disagree with you and find some of your reasoning misinformed...
    Seconded.
    Just as long as you're polite.  




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  • ashley8918ashley8918 member
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer
    holyguacamole79 said:
    ashley8918 said:
    abbyj700 said:
    I'll just say I politely disagree with you and find some of your reasoning misinformed...
    Seconded.
    Just as long as you're polite.  
    No always, but I sure do try :)
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  • lilacck28lilacck28 member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary First Answer
    Also, I left for a while after posting, and finally just checked back. I'm pleased as punch to see similar posts of disgust about hobby lobby! I lub you guys.
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  • theycallmelinztheycallmelinz member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    Does any insurance cover Plan B? I felt like since you can buy it OTC now it probably wouldn't be covered. Not totally relevant, I'm just curious.
    Anniversary



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  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 member
    5000 Comments Sixth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    theycallmelinz said:
    Does any insurance cover Plan B? I felt like since you can buy it OTC now it probably wouldn't be covered. Not totally relevant, I'm just curious.
    I've wondered this, too, actually.




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  • dolewhipperdolewhipper member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary First Answer
    emmaaa said:
    abbyj700 said:
    emmaaa said:
    holyguacamole79 said:
    holyguacamole79 said:
    Hobby Lobby can kiss my ass. 

    Sale or no sale. Even if it's predictable, I think it's important that we share our dissent. There are some major news pieces that I'm sure all of us are out of the loop on, including lurkers, and it's important to say that a sale does not trump standing up for human rights. It's possible there was SOMEONE reading this who did not know Hobby Lobby's stance before reading this and perhaps it was enlightening for them.
    (Projecting here) I don't think that sharing a sale was an attempt to "trump standing up for human rights". I mean, she is just sharing info about a sale. Or maybe I'm reading too much into your comments.
    I like OP. I think her intentions were to share a sale and help us all out. 

    What I was trying to say is that it's okay for other posters to share their reasons why they would never shop at that store. Even if that is a predictable response, I'm saying it's okay to say "Even if there's a sale I'll never step foot in that store!"
    ------------------------ Gotcha. And even as someone who supports HL, I agree that it's totally fair for other posters to express their disagreement. As soon as I saw the thread title, I expected the comments that followed.
    This. I love and support Hobby Lobby but I understand why people don't.
    I'm very seriously not trying to start a fight - I'd like to understand.

    How can you love and support someone who oppresses others? I completely get loving and supporting a certain religion - but when it comes to the persecution and oppression of others...I just get lost.

    And yeah, fuck Chick-Fil-A too. Anyone against love and equality I ignore during my consumerism. The more companies that step up in support of hate - the less places I have to spend my hard earned money.
    I will explain why I feel the way I do but I will not turn this into an argument. I know that I'm in the minority on how many people here and everywhere feel about HL and I know that. 

    First of all, I do not think it is anyone's responsibility, other than the person using contraception, to provide them with free contraception. If someone needs/wants contraception, they should be able to provide it for themselves. If their health insurance company doesn't provide it (and let's be real, HL is not the company that has health insurance that doesn't cover many types of contraception, just the only one getting national attention) then try looking into Planned Parenthood or getting your own and different health insurance policy. There are options.

    Also, why is it up to anyone to say that a private company has to comply with government issued standards? Many people (Catholics) not only believe that using contraception is a sin but by providing it to people is equally a sin because in that way they are condoning it. 

    There are plenty companies and owners of big companies that have said things I found offensive and don't agree with, donate their money to charities that I would never in a million years donate to, and support efforts that I don't support, but I still go there. Consumerism and capitalism is about the PRODUCT, not the owner of the company and their religious.non-religious views. 
    Additionally, it's only a certain kind of oral contraceptive they didn't believe in carrying, the kind that doesn't allow an already fertilized egg from implanting itself. 16 out of the 20 kinds of pills out there HL does support. (And that accounts for the types used by over 93% American women.)

    Sorry for threadjacking, just believe knowledge = power.

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  • dolewhipperdolewhipper member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary First Answer
    edited November 2014
    southernbelle0915 said:
    Serious question for the HL supporters because I have a really hard time actually understanding the HL POV... I understand the "contributing to the sin" idea behind not wanting to pay for BC. But they ARE paying for BC. Just different forms of it (see PGL's list). So what gives? 

    I work for a Catholic NFP that doesn't cover BC at all. Like no form of it. Whether I agree with it or not, I respect that they are consistent. I just don't understand HL's inconsistencies. Why are some forms ok but not others? In my head, if they're religiously/morally against preventing life and therefore they don't want to pay for BC, they should be against paying for it any form, right?
    The kinds that where an already fertilized egg implants to the uterus wall destroys/doesn't allow to happen. Because at that point, there is ability of life. 

    "The companies in the case and their supporters object to IUDs and morning-after pills, saying they cause abortions by blocking a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. Groups that lobby for reproductive rights contend the drugs and devices prevent fertilization from occurring, which can lead to unwanted pregnancies and surgical abortions."

    Edited to add quote.


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  • lilacck28lilacck28 member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary First Answer
    edited November 2014
    This is a whole other thing but.... I don't understand the arguments against birth control, since it is very often used for a medical purpose BESIDES stopping the making of a fetus.

    I was on birth control (the pill) at... actually I can't remember. 15 or 16? Because I only got my period about every 6 months if I was lucky (mild PCOS). That is very unhealthy, and makes cervical cancer much more likely. Solution? Go on birth control, get your period every month, and reduce my risk of cancer. I was not sexually active. In fact, I was not sexually active until I met my fiance. I am snow white, bitches. (I joke!)

    So, for people against the use of birth control since it is a sin... are you against it entirely? Or just for "no fetus making" purposes? And if you want it banned... what about 15 year old me that barely ever got a period and was on her way to a very unhealthy uterus?


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  • theycallmelinztheycallmelinz member
    500 Love Its 500 Comments Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited November 2014
    lilacck28 said:
    This is a whole other thing but.... I don't understand the arguments against birth control. It is very often used for a medical purpose BESIDES stopping the making of a fetus.

    I was on birth control (the pill) at... actually I can't remember. 15 or 16? Because I only got my period about every 6 months if I was lucky (mild PCOS). That is very unhealthy, and makes cervical cancer much more likely. Solution? Go on birth control, get your period every month, and reduce my risk of cancer.

    So, for people against the use of birth control since it is a sin... are you against it entirely? Or just for "no fetus making" purposes? And if you want it banned... what about 15 year old me that barely ever got a period and was on her way to a very unhealthy uterus?


    I could absolutely, totally, be completely wrong, but I've gotten the sense before that taking BC for your health is kind of along the same lines (to some people, not me) as getting an abortion after being raped. In a sense, you're sacrificing the potential life of something else for your own sake. Again, I know a lot of people DO NOT feel that way, but I've heard this argument before.

    ETA: I really hope I didn't open a can of worms about justifying abortions. Totally not my intention. At. All.
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  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer

    lilacck28 said:
    larrygaga said:
    I go to Michael's for painting supplies. I don't know a thing about their yarn. Obviously "real artists" can be stuck up about their paint not being super fancy, but it suits me just fine. 

    You gotta have good yarn to knit though.


    STUCK IN BOX

    I'm a snobby real artist. Damn straight it makes a difference ;)

    What type of paint do you buy? A lot of those stores DO have the main brands that artists use (winsor newton, golden.) BUT, there's a MAJOR difference in acryllic student grade vs professional/ artist grade. For example, in professional grade, you can mix cadmium red and phthalo blue and get a lovely black that won't dull your paintings the way a tube of black will. But in student grade, it's just not possible. (I've been teaching youngins with student grade. It's so frustrating when I'm forced to hand over a dab of black-from-the-tube to them!)

    Part of the difference in the price pints and quality of the paints is how finely ground the pigments are.  The finer the ground, the more mixing and diluting you can do.

    Having the "right" materials really does make a difference.  I started buying natural bristle brushes (kolinsky sable) in order to paint my minis and those brushes really do last longer, keep their shape better, etc. as long as I take care of them. . . so they are worth the money.  But I am very rough on my brushes and mine don't last as long as others do.  I replace them every 2-3 years when they go on sale at Dick Blick, Jerry's Artorama, ASW, etc.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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  • emmaaaemmaaa mod
    Moderator 2500 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary
    lilacck28 said:
    This is a whole other thing but.... I don't understand the arguments against birth control, since it is very often used for a medical purpose BESIDES stopping the making of a fetus.

    I was on birth control (the pill) at... actually I can't remember. 15 or 16? Because I only got my period about every 6 months if I was lucky (mild PCOS). That is very unhealthy, and makes cervical cancer much more likely. Solution? Go on birth control, get your period every month, and reduce my risk of cancer. I was not sexually active. In fact, I was not sexually active until I met my fiance. I am snow white, bitches. (I joke!)

    So, for people against the use of birth control since it is a sin... are you against it entirely? Or just for "no fetus making" purposes? And if you want it banned... what about 15 year old me that barely ever got a period and was on her way to a very unhealthy uterus?


    I don't not believe in bith control. I am not Catholic but don't use the pill for other reasons.

    As PGL posted, HL offers 16 types of BC or the 20 that are offered.

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  • lilacck28lilacck28 member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary First Answer
    theycallmelinz said:
    lilacck28 said:
    This is a whole other thing but.... I don't understand the arguments against birth control. It is very often used for a medical purpose BESIDES stopping the making of a fetus.

    I was on birth control (the pill) at... actually I can't remember. 15 or 16? Because I only got my period about every 6 months if I was lucky (mild PCOS). That is very unhealthy, and makes cervical cancer much more likely. Solution? Go on birth control, get your period every month, and reduce my risk of cancer.

    So, for people against the use of birth control since it is a sin... are you against it entirely? Or just for "no fetus making" purposes? And if you want it banned... what about 15 year old me that barely ever got a period and was on her way to a very unhealthy uterus?


    I could absolutely, totally, be completely wrong, but I've gotten the sense before that taking BC for your health is kind of along the same lines (to some people, not me) as getting an abortion after being raped. In a sense, you're sacrificing the potential life of something else for your own sake. Again, I know a lot of people DO NOT feel that way, but I've heard this argument before.

    ETA: I really hope I didn't open a can of worms about justifying abortions. Totally not my intention. At. All.
    haha, it's cool. I get the intention. So, for the hypothetical people that think taking birth control for medical reasons is like protecting themselves and also stopping life (thereby being selfish) what about those people that are on birth control for medical reasons, and are NOT having sex? (As I was not, for years.) Again, don't get it!
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  • blabla89blabla89 member
    Ninth Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited November 2014

    southernbelle0915 said:
    Serious question for the HL supporters because I have a really hard time actually understanding the HL POV... I understand the "contributing to the sin" idea behind not wanting to pay for BC. But they ARE paying for BC. Just different forms of it (see PGL's list). So what gives? 

    I work for a Catholic NFP that doesn't cover BC at all. Like no form of it. Whether I agree with it or not, I respect that they are consistent. I just don't understand HL's inconsistencies. Why are some forms ok but not others? In my head, if they're religiously/morally against preventing life and therefore they don't want to pay for BC, they should be against paying for it any form, right?
    HL's POV is that they cover all BC except those that they consider to be abortofacient, which can work by causing the body to expel a fertilized egg. (Note: I can't attest to the science behind any of that, just my understanding of what I've read about their stance.) The family that owns HL isn't Catholic, so they don't have a general objection to all BC.

    ETF extra quote box
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  • lilacck28lilacck28 member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary First Answer
    edited November 2014
    emmaaa said:
    lilacck28 said:
    This is a whole other thing but.... I don't understand the arguments against birth control, since it is very often used for a medical purpose BESIDES stopping the making of a fetus.

    I was on birth control (the pill) at... actually I can't remember. 15 or 16? Because I only got my period about every 6 months if I was lucky (mild PCOS). That is very unhealthy, and makes cervical cancer much more likely. Solution? Go on birth control, get your period every month, and reduce my risk of cancer. I was not sexually active. In fact, I was not sexually active until I met my fiance. I am snow white, bitches. (I joke!)

    So, for people against the use of birth control since it is a sin... are you against it entirely? Or just for "no fetus making" purposes? And if you want it banned... what about 15 year old me that barely ever got a period and was on her way to a very unhealthy uterus?


    I don't not believe in bith control. I am not Catholic but don't use the pill for other reasons.

    As PGL posted, HL offers 16 types of BC or the 20 that are offered.
    Oh, I got that. I was just complicating the situation further and asking about something outside of the Hobby Lobby issue. :)  And I wasn't sure that there were ladies on here that don't belive in birth control entirely, but in case there were, I was interested in hearing the reasoning.
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  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 member
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    southernbelle0915, I personally think this is where HL missed the boat.  My understanding is that other forms of the Pill still alter the uterine lining to prevent implantation of a fertilized egg (yes, I realize that the Pill prevents ovulation, but my understanding is that the uterine lining is a "just in case" measaure).

    My understanding of HL's issue is that the 4 forms of contraception they oppose can alter the uterine lining to prevent implantation.  

    FWIW, you are correct in that Catholics oppose any form of artificial birth control.




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  • dolewhipperdolewhipper member
    1000 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary First Answer
    lilacck28 said:
    This is a whole other thing but.... I don't understand the arguments against birth control, since it is very often used for a medical purpose BESIDES stopping the making of a fetus.

    I was on birth control (the pill) at... actually I can't remember. 15 or 16? Because I only got my period about every 6 months if I was lucky (mild PCOS). That is very unhealthy, and makes cervical cancer much more likely. Solution? Go on birth control, get your period every month, and reduce my risk of cancer. I was not sexually active. In fact, I was not sexually active until I met my fiance. I am snow white, bitches. (I joke!)

    So, for people against the use of birth control since it is a sin... are you against it entirely? Or just for "no fetus making" purposes? And if you want it banned... what about 15 year old me that barely ever got a period and was on her way to a very unhealthy uterus?


    I personally just don't believe in abortions outside of a serious medical condition or abuse situation. Sorry, Tim, no red rag top for me. But I can understand where a company's owners can have their beliefs and don't want to condone them. 


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  • penguin44penguin44 member
    500 Comments 250 Love Its Name Dropper First Answer
    beethery said:
    dolewhipper said:
    southernbelle0915 said:
    Serious question for the HL supporters because I have a really hard time actually understanding the HL POV... I understand the "contributing to the sin" idea behind not wanting to pay for BC. But they ARE paying for BC. Just different forms of it (see PGL's list). So what gives? 

    I work for a Catholic NFP that doesn't cover BC at all. Like no form of it. Whether I agree with it or not, I respect that they are consistent. I just don't understand HL's inconsistencies. Why are some forms ok but not others? In my head, if they're religiously/morally against preventing life and therefore they don't want to pay for BC, they should be against paying for it any form, right?
    The kinds that where an already fertilized egg implants to the uterus wall destroys/doesn't allow to happen. Because at that point, there is ability of life. 

    "The companies in the case and their supporters object to IUDs and morning-after pills, saying they cause abortions by blocking a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. Groups that lobby for reproductive rights contend the drugs and devices prevent fertilization from occurring, which can lead to unwanted pregnancies and surgical abortions."

    Edited to add quote.
    image

    If I could love this more than once, I would.
    Anniversary

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  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 member
    5000 Comments Sixth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    lilacck28 said:
    This is a whole other thing but.... I don't understand the arguments against birth control, since it is very often used for a medical purpose BESIDES stopping the making of a fetus.

    I was on birth control (the pill) at... actually I can't remember. 15 or 16? Because I only got my period about every 6 months if I was lucky (mild PCOS). That is very unhealthy, and makes cervical cancer much more likely. Solution? Go on birth control, get your period every month, and reduce my risk of cancer. I was not sexually active. In fact, I was not sexually active until I met my fiance. I am snow white, bitches. (I joke!)

    So, for people against the use of birth control since it is a sin... are you against it entirely? Or just for "no fetus making" purposes? And if you want it banned... what about 15 year old me that barely ever got a period and was on her way to a very unhealthy uterus?


    Personally, I am against the Pill entirely.  I admit that my POV is skewed because I had high blood pressure while i was on it and it sccared the crap out of me.  But, if you read morie about the level of hormones in it, it can get quite frightening.  Furthermore, I have serious PCOS.  Taking the Pill is a temporary solution, while there are docctors out there who are willing to work with you to help resolve the issue.  

    [[ puts on Catholic hat ]]
    If a woman uses the Pill for the purposes you mentioned ("health reasons"), it is not sinful.  If a couple is married and sexually active and the woman uses oral contraceptives to mitigate her health issues, it is not sinful.  

    However, if a couple uses the Pill (or any other form of artificial contraception) with the intent of avoiding a pregnancy, it is considered a sinful act.  




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