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Opinion Time: How much porn is too much

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Re: Opinion Time: How much porn is too much

  • theartistformerlyknownastheartistformerlyknownas member
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    ashley8918 said:
     I am of the opinion that bloody marys are an abomination. Why would you ruin perfectly good alcohol with tomato juice, you heathen?! Blech!
    Your opinion is illogical. I refuse to consider it. Because HORSERADISH.
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  • ashley8918ashley8918 member
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    lolo883 said:


    ashley8918 said:
     I am of the opinion that bloody marys are an abomination. Why would you ruin perfectly good alcohol with tomato juice, you heathen?! Blech!

    Your opinion is illogical. I refuse to consider it. Because HORSERADISH.

    Oh god, NONONONO. VOM.
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  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 member
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    MagicInk said:
    holyguacamole79 said:

    I'm glad we got into the facts that looking at someone other than your spouse lustfully is the sin. I know nothing about Christian beliefs (despite going to a Catholic school for 5 years), so three pages again when I read that he doesn't want to be tempted to sin, I really thought masterbating was the sin.

     

    I can't speak for other Christian faith traditions. In Catholicism, masturbating is a sin.
    If God didn't want me to masturbate, he would've given me shorter arms.

    (we both know I've got a butt load of Catholic sins racked up against me, this is meant to be a funny)
    Don't worry - I giggled.  




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  • RosieC18RosieC18 member
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    So, skipping over the theological discussion, I'm interested in how/if people separate porn from masturbation. Some folks earlier were talking about not wanting H's or Fi's to look at porn when they're home, but would you mind him masturbating without porn?

    H and I both use porn occasionally. I'm not sure what percentage of his masturbation involves porn but it's not 100%. For me it's about 5%. I'm sure he watches more than I do. I don't think either porn or masturbation will become a problem for us, but if one does it seems more likely to be porn, just because there are few people who spent hours and hours a day obsessing about jerking off, absent porn. It just doesn't take that long!

    I think both have the same line for when it stops being okay: when it interferes with your life together, either in terms of time spent, or sex drive, or I suppose what sex acts you're requesting of your partner (like, if he decided that in order to have sex with me I needed to wax my entire body, or learn to do a split). I don't need to be the one and only way my H gets off, or think that jerking off is only an option if I'm not available. For one thing he's much more interested in 2am sex than I am and for another, I think masturbating and partnered sex are very different. They fulfill different needs, feel different, and if you're me take vastly different amounts of time and energy. Heck, half the time I masturbate it's to fall asleep!

    But maybe for others they are synonymous? I don't know and I'm interested to see how others break this out.
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  • VulgarGirlVulgarGirl member
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    I also masturbate to go to sleep. Sometimes it's the only thing that works for me. And partner sex doesn't have the same effect.

    I think it was @hellosweetie who asked about masturbating while your person was home. I just...go for it. I mean I've got no embarrassment when it comes to her. The woman has cleaned up my vomit. That's love yo. She can hear me moan.
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  • hellosweetie1015hellosweetie1015 member
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    edited January 2015
    LOOK MA MAGIC DISAPPEARING BOXES!!
     
    Box 1: pinkrevenge said:
    Those times my H was in bed with me as I did it? That was totally to go to sleep! He's already sawing logs and my brain will not shut OFF.

    If masturbation is the difference between getting a night's sleep or spending the next day dragging my feet, then I say masturbation is a public good. 
    _____ END BOX 1 _____
    Box 2:
    MagicInk said:
    I also masturbate to go to sleep. Sometimes it's the only thing that works for me. And partner sex doesn't have the same effect.

    I think it was @hellosweetie who asked about masturbating while your person was home. I just...go for it. I mean I've got no embarrassment when it comes to her. The woman has cleaned up my vomit. That's love yo. She can hear me moan.
    _____ END BOX 2 _____

    I honestly do not understand. I'm sorry. Like, I know, logically, that the absolute worst case scenario in this situation is that FI will wake up and help me out, so really there is no bad outcome - I get me off, or he gets me off, either way I win. But, like, my brain finds the worst possible outcome at the end of a horrific downward spiral and presents it as absolute fact. Like, FI finds me in bed masturbating while he sleeps beside me --> intervening horrific crashing spiral --> me being a spinster old maid with 47 cats. 
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] member
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    edited June 2015

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  • melbensomelbenso member
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    pinkrevenge said:
    Honestly, even with my mom doing her best not to make my sister and I feel shame about our bodies and sex, if H caught me there would be a moment where I would be awash in embarrassment. Unfortunately, we still live in a society that says women's sexuality is inherently shameful. Even using the vibrator H bought me took a while because, oh, the shame!

    H caught me once.  He asked if he could help.  It was pretty hot.
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  • sophhabobophasophhabobopha member
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    pinkrevenge said:
    Honestly, even with my mom doing her best not to make my sister and I feel shame about our bodies and sex, if H caught me there would be a moment where I would be awash in embarrassment. Unfortunately, we still live in a society that says women's sexuality is inherently shameful. Even using the vibrator H bought me took a while because, oh, the shame!

    But then I just have to ask myself, why do I feel shame? What am I doing that is wrong? Is H going to be shocked that I used my gift for it's intended use? And who else matters? No one! So to hell with them, this is normal, healthy, fun, and I'm not going to feel bad about it!

    Andplusalso: when I use my toy / go solo regularly, sex is better.
    It took me so long to feel confident as a sexual being.
    You can keep me down, society!
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  • hellosweetie1015hellosweetie1015 member
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    MagicInk said:
    helloswettie1015 (I'm not even gonna try those fucking boxes today), this is totally TMI so you don't actually have to answer, but do you guys ever try mutual masturbation? If you purposely masturbate in front of him, maybe it will help you get past the mind speed bump that there will be some terrible catastrophe that leads to you buying 47 cats. Hell part of my fantasy usually involved Wifey "catching" me and joining in. Cause I know that'd be hot. Cause it's happened.

    I agree with @pinkrevenge though, women are taught by society that our bodies and our sexuality are shameful and dirty. We are to have to make babies and please our men. If we happen to have an orgasm, fine. And in fact we can strive for an orgasm with our partner. However if we attempt to achieve orgasm on our own, there's something dirty with that. Because that's just having sex for the enjoyment of sex and women don't operate like that (bullshit). 

    So I don't think it's just you. It's society. Fucking patriarchal bullshit society. I remember when we were learning about Kinsey in college and how he first studied male sexuality and everyone was all "OMG THIS IS GREAT YOU'RE A GENIUS" and then he went to study female sexuality and released his book on how we get off and everyone was all "You DIRTY OLD MAN PERV!! That's our sister, our mother, our daughter!!! They don't enjoy sex!!!!"...and very little has changed in the intervening years.
    I'm gonna brave the boxes (mainly because I will never learn).

    TMI response: yeah, we have. He asked me once to masturbate in front of him. I literally could not. I did try - I got my favorite toy out, even, because I was gonna do it up big - and I couldn't move beyond the set-up part. Like, literally, sudden-onset paralysis. It's so bad that I keep considering (and reconsidering) trying to find a counselor that might could help me, but I don't even know how to go about that other than just ... google, and my insurance's approved mental health provider list.

    I totally, completely, 100% agree that the general thought process of "Women aren't supposed to like sex" is definitely a huge part of it, just in general. I know that it's affected every woman's life, even when they're raised in a sex-positive environment like the one PinkRevenge had. What I think makes it even harder is being raised in an environment where sex just... doesn't exist. I literally had no concept of sex, even into my first years at college. Sex was a huge taboo in my house. I didn't have any sort of "talk" with my mom, nor did either of my sisters. I didn't even know what my period was when it came, and spent the first two months of "womanhood" thinking I was dying. 
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  • artbyallieartbyallie mod
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    holyguacamole79 said:
    @artbyallie‌ , your definition of sin is your own. The Christian definition of sin also regards thoughts as sin when it damages your relationship with God. Looking lustfully at another is an objectification, and it can keep us from seeing that person as a child and creation of Good.
    I am a Christian. My relationship with God is just fine, thanks. I do in fact consider hurting oneself to fall under my understanding of sin. I just disagree that thoughts of sex qualify as hurting me by hurting my relationship with God.
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  • flantasticflantastic member
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    @ashley8918 - I just attempted the read-through of this and there was one clarifying point which was never made and its absence was driving me crazy. For one, there are actually people who take the approach which you suggests logically follows - basically avoid anything ever and shelter yourself in a little bubble. My parents were originally part of a homeschooling parent group, but had to quit because the reason they were homeschooling me is so I wouldn't be bored in the shitty schools around me, and the reason many others were doing it was so they could shelter their kids from the world. Unfortunately, the total shelter approach just means that you eventually get a) that idea that your sexuality is BAD that you guys have been referring to and/or b) a total inability to cope well when you actually encounter something that tempts you.

    The clarification: The main deal here is when does it become looking at someone "lustfully, " which as @lurkergirl pointed out is not considered good form. In your example, you could see Mila Kunis, and think, "Damn, she's hot." Which she is. No getting around it. And there's no problem in recognizing it, but it can be a temptation. Then the choice to act lustfully comes when you make the decision to a) think about "What the hell is she doing on my street! Could I meet her?" b) focus on your coffee or c) watch. dat. ass. alllllll the way down the street. The last one would be considered the lustful response, but if you pick something else to do once you've noticed hot Mila Kunis, you wouldn't have to chalk up, "Well, shit. Saw a woman today and thought she was beautiful. Put it in the category of accidental sins." Anyway, since you wouldn't consider it a sin, you might pick option c and see no problem with it.

    @holyguacamole79's husband isn't so much avoiding temptation to look at the ladies in movies lustfully - the temptation arose when he noticed they were there, and then had to make the decision to "take it all in" or focus on something else. If he was really trying to avoid temptation, he'd refuse to watch any movies with naked ladies ever. But instead, he knows what he can handle and what he needs to do to prevent the opportunity from turning into lust for someone else.

    Luckily, neither H nor I has an interest in porn, and anything he sees in a movie will produce the outcome that @beethery mentioned - he'll think about the hot woman next to him and want to do me. If I'm not there, or if I say no, he just has to deal with it. Because we don't necessarily think that just because you have a desire for sexual gratification that we should get it, or get it apart from each other. I probably struggle with that more than he does, but each time it's a decision to love him and only him, even if not physically rightthissecond.

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  • ashley8918ashley8918 member
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    flantastic said:
    @ashley8918 - I just attempted the read-through of this and there was one clarifying point which was never made and its absence was driving me crazy. For one, there are actually people who take the approach which you suggests logically follows - basically avoid anything ever and shelter yourself in a little bubble. My parents were originally part of a homeschooling parent group, but had to quit because the reason they were homeschooling me is so I wouldn't be bored in the shitty schools around me, and the reason many others were doing it was so they could shelter their kids from the world. Unfortunately, the total shelter approach just means that you eventually get a) that idea that your sexuality is BAD that you guys have been referring to and/or b) a total inability to cope well when you actually encounter something that tempts you.

    The clarification: The main deal here is when does it become looking at someone "lustfully, " which as @lurkergirl pointed out is not considered good form. In your example, you could see Mila Kunis, and think, "Damn, she's hot." Which she is. No getting around it. And there's no problem in recognizing it, but it can be a temptation. Then the choice to act lustfully comes when you make the decision to a) think about "What the hell is she doing on my street! Could I meet her?" b) focus on your coffee or c) watch. dat. ass. alllllll the way down the street. The last one would be considered the lustful response, but if you pick something else to do once you've noticed hot Mila Kunis, you wouldn't have to chalk up, "Well, shit. Saw a woman today and thought she was beautiful. Put it in the category of accidental sins." Anyway, since you wouldn't consider it a sin, you might pick option c and see no problem with it.

    @holyguacamole79's husband isn't so much avoiding temptation to look at the ladies in movies lustfully - the temptation arose when he noticed they were there, and then had to make the decision to "take it all in" or focus on something else. If he was really trying to avoid temptation, he'd refuse to watch any movies with naked ladies ever. But instead, he knows what he can handle and what he needs to do to prevent the opportunity from turning into lust for someone else.

    Luckily, neither H nor I has an interest in porn, and anything he sees in a movie will produce the outcome that @beethery mentioned - he'll think about the hot woman next to him and want to do me. If I'm not there, or if I say no, he just has to deal with it. Because we don't necessarily think that just because you have a desire for sexual gratification that we should get it, or get it apart from each other. I probably struggle with that more than he does, but each time it's a decision to love him and only him, even if not physically rightthissecond.

    1st bolded: Of course it's a bad approach, and of course this would happen. NEVER did I say that this should happen. I was simply saying that based on the logic that "one must avoid all situations where they could possibly have a lustful thought" (which came about through a conversation that had nothing to do with Guac; she wasn't even involved - I didn't know her H's specific motivations, and didn't really care to. We were speaking in general terms), then one would also have to avoid a whole host of other everyday situations.

    2nd bolded: Um, of course I would pick the last response, hahaha. I don't believe in sin as a concept. Or god and his/her will for that matter.
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  • flantasticflantastic member
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    ashley8918 said:
    flantastic said:
    @ashley8918 - I just attempted the read-through of this and there was one clarifying point which was never made and its absence was driving me crazy. For one, there are actually people who take the approach which you suggests logically follows - basically avoid anything ever and shelter yourself in a little bubble. My parents were originally part of a homeschooling parent group, but had to quit because the reason they were homeschooling me is so I wouldn't be bored in the shitty schools around me, and the reason many others were doing it was so they could shelter their kids from the world. Unfortunately, the total shelter approach just means that you eventually get a) that idea that your sexuality is BAD that you guys have been referring to and/or b) a total inability to cope well when you actually encounter something that tempts you.

    The clarification: The main deal here is when does it become looking at someone "lustfully, " which as @lurkergirl pointed out is not considered good form. In your example, you could see Mila Kunis, and think, "Damn, she's hot." Which she is. No getting around it. And there's no problem in recognizing it, but it can be a temptation. Then the choice to act lustfully comes when you make the decision to a) think about "What the hell is she doing on my street! Could I meet her?" b) focus on your coffee or c) watch. dat. ass. alllllll the way down the street. The last one would be considered the lustful response, but if you pick something else to do once you've noticed hot Mila Kunis, you wouldn't have to chalk up, "Well, shit. Saw a woman today and thought she was beautiful. Put it in the category of accidental sins." Anyway, since you wouldn't consider it a sin, you might pick option c and see no problem with it.

    @holyguacamole79's husband isn't so much avoiding temptation to look at the ladies in movies lustfully - the temptation arose when he noticed they were there, and then had to make the decision to "take it all in" or focus on something else. If he was really trying to avoid temptation, he'd refuse to watch any movies with naked ladies ever. But instead, he knows what he can handle and what he needs to do to prevent the opportunity from turning into lust for someone else.

    Luckily, neither H nor I has an interest in porn, and anything he sees in a movie will produce the outcome that @beethery mentioned - he'll think about the hot woman next to him and want to do me. If I'm not there, or if I say no, he just has to deal with it. Because we don't necessarily think that just because you have a desire for sexual gratification that we should get it, or get it apart from each other. I probably struggle with that more than he does, but each time it's a decision to love him and only him, even if not physically rightthissecond.

    1st bolded: Of course it's a bad approach, and of course this would happen. NEVER did I say that this should happen. I was simply saying that based on the logic that "one must avoid all situations where they could possibly have a lustful thought" (which came about through a conversation that had nothing to do with Guac; she wasn't even involved - I didn't know her H's specific motivations, and didn't really care to. We were speaking in general terms), then one would also have to avoid a whole host of other everyday situations.

    2nd bolded: Um, of course I would pick the last response, hahaha. I don't believe in sin as a concept. Or god and his/her will for that matter.

    1) I know, and I'm saying some people agree that that's got to be the logic. But those people usually conflate temptation with sin when they're not the same, or don't know how to react to temptation anyway.

    2) I figured as much ;)

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] member
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    edited June 2015

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  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 member
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    edited January 2015
    pinkrevenge said:
    It bothers me a lot that even noticing someone is attractive, an important part of biology and producing the healthiest offspring, is considered an "accidental sin" or a sin at all.

    In the end, it's not my religion, so that's fine, but it explains A LOT about our society that deeply concerns me. I'm pretty repulsed by it.
    This is where splitting hairs gets to be too much.  I have a total crush on Chris Pine.  I can look at him and think "damn, he's hot".  That's not a sin.  If I were to fantasize about him to the point where I am thinking of him as an object of my desire, essentially reducing him to a "piece of meat" (so to speak), then that's lustful and sinful.

    This is a quote often attributed to Saint John Paul II - "The opposite of love is not hate, but to use."  What he's saying is that if I use another person as a means to an end to make me happy, that is an attempt to reduce them to an object and an attempt to remove the God-given dignity from that person.  

    Does that make sense?

    Also, when I say sin, this is sin as I have come to learn it from my Catholic-Christian faith.  I recognize that others have different takes on what is sin and what is not.  And I'm not dumb enough to think that I am God and that my definition of sin is the one that everyone needs to use.  

    ETA:  I re-read @flantastic 's comment, and I just want to go back to the idea of "accidental sin".  I don't think flan is saying that looking at someone and appreciating the beauty is an accidental sin - she's saying that you wouldn't have to chalk it up as one.  According to Catholic theology, however, there is no such thing as an "accidental sin".  Sin is something you do knowing it's wrong and know that it separates us from God.  




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  • flantasticflantastic member
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    edited January 2015
    pinkrevenge said:
    It bothers me a lot that even noticing someone is attractive, an important part of biology and producing the healthiest offspring, is considered an "accidental sin" or a sin at all.

    In the end, it's not my religion, so that's fine, but it explains A LOT about our society that deeply concerns me. I'm pretty repulsed by it.

    Yeah, that's the opposite of what I was saying. As long as you don't start obsessing over it, it's not anything to worry about. But if you take the "avoid everything!" approach you usually do it because you fear that you can accidentally sin in such a way, which is misguided.

    ETA and many people are misguided or misinformed.

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  • melbensomelbenso member
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    edited January 2015
    @holyguacamole79 I really like your explanation above.  I was raised Catholic, but haven't considered myself to be one in a long time.  H is a Unitarian Universalist, a faith that doesn't follow any specific Christian or non-Christian doctrine, but instead is guided by 7 principles.  The first of these principles is that every human being has inherent worth and dignity. 

    I appreciate the distinction between normal, physical, biological attraction and using that instinct as a means to treat a person as something other than a person with inherent worth and dignity, which happens when someone objectifies someone (which can happen in any number of situations - cat calling women on the street being one that has gotten a lot of attention lately) - they stop seeing them as a person and see them as a means to an end.

    Well spoken.
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  • holyguacamole79holyguacamole79 member
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    Aw thanks @melbenso.  It's a great way to look at so many aspects of different relationships (romantic or otherwise) - am I using this person or loving them?  The Catholic teaching of sexuality gets a bad reputation, but when a person takes the time to read some of what St John Paul II said in his Theology of the Body - so much of it comes down to the principle I stated above and makes sense.  AND, it's pretty flippin' amazing and liberating!  




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